On Thursday, November 11, 2021 at 9:42:00 AM UTC-6, tjrob137 wrote:
> On 11/10/21 11:45 AM, Ed Lake wrote:
> > We've been arguing about [Lake's] paper since May of 2017, [...]
> No. YOU'VE been "arguing" about it; those of us who actually understand
> physics ignore it, because it is full of nonsense.
> > The key conflict is whether or not the speed of light is the same
> > from ALL OBSERVERS.
> Restrict that to observers using inertial coordinates, and it is true,
> demonstrated by literally zillions of experiments.
Then you should be able to name a few. Einstein's "thought experiment"
where a body is emitted from the sun at 1,000 kps, becomes inertial,
and an observer on that body measures the speed of light from the sun
to be passing at the same speed as the emitter on the sun measures it
is purely HYPOTHETICAL since no one can measure the ONE WAY speed
of a passing photon. And the PURPOSE of that "thought experiment" is
to show that TIME passes at a different rate per second for the body
moving at 1,000 kps than it does for someone on the sun.
> > Obviously it is NOT.
> Only to idiots like you who don't understand basic physics, and who
> refuse to study it. Actual experiments show your claim to be false.
> > Radar guns demonstrate that FACT every day.
Why do you refuse to name these experiments? Are they the same TWO
that I name in my paper? Alväger et al. and E. B. Aleksandrov et al.?
I explain how mathematicians use those experiments which actually
only confirm that EMITTERS always emit light at c.
> No, they don't. You make false assertions about them, and claim your
> assertions "demonstrate" facts not in evidence. That is fantasizing and
> dreaming, not science.
The FACTS are in evidence. They make it totally clear and undeniable that
light hits a moving observer at c+v or c-v where v is the speed of the observer
toward or away from the emitter. Radar guns are the prime example.
> > A radar gun emits photons that travel at the speed of light, c.
> No. Individual photons don't "have" a speed, and without specifying the
> coordinates this is too ambiguous for any good use.
What you are saying is that YOU CANNOT DO THE MATH. And if you cannot do
the math, then it's not a valid experiment.
PHOTONS travel at the speed of light. They are oscillating packets of ENERGY
being transferred from one atom to another. In air they travel a bit slower than
in a vacuum because they have to transfer from one atom to another in the
air as they pass through the air.
> The MICROWAVE BEAM emitted by a radar gun travels in vacuum with speed c
> RELATIVE TO THE INERTIAL FRAME IN WHICH THE RADAR GUN IS AT REST.
Radar guns do NOT emit beams. They emit a burst of INDIVIDUAL PHOTONS.
And the emitter does NOT have to be inertial. If the emitter is accelerating OR
is merely PROPELLED at a steady speed, the photons still travel at c.
> > Those photons oscillate at a specific frequency.
> No. Photons don't "oscillate". But the MICROWAVE BEAM from a radar gun
> does, because the radar gun emits a coherent beam of myriad microwave
TOTAL NONSENSE! Experiments show that if you turn down the energy source
the emitter will emit FEWER individual photons. There are no waves. There are
not beams. There is just a burst of individual OSCILLATING photons.
> Even though individual photons don't oscillate, a coherent beam of them
> does. Even though individual photons don't "have" a speed, a coherent
> beam of them does, and that speed in vacuum is always c relative to any
> (locally) inertial frame.
> > They hit an oncoming vehicle at c+v.
> This is the core of your confusion. You ASSERT this, but no experiment
> shows it to be true. A major part of your confusion is your refusal to
> specify the coordinates used -- you seem unaware of the necessity, which
> merely reflects your profound ignorance of basic physics.
No, it reflects you total reliance on mathematics. If you do not have all the
numbers you believe you need, you cannot do the math.
Radar guns emit oscillating photons at the speed of light. In a very tiny
fraction of a second, new oscillating photons are returned from the target. The
gun does not need to know its "coordinates" IF IT IS STATIONARY, because
all it is measuring is the difference in oscillating frequencies between
the photons it emitted and the photons it gets back. If the gun is moving
toward an oncoming vehicle, then it will measure c+v+v, and it will
display the COMBINED speed of the gun and the target - if it does not
have software to separate the two speeds.
LIDAR guns measure distances between the gun and the target. They do
not know any coordinates. LIDAR guns MUST be used only while stationary.
All they need is the TIME the photons were emitted and the TIME the
photons returned. Knowing those two times AND the SPEED OF LIGHT, the
gun can determine the distance to the target.
Perform one distance measurement and then another a 20th of a second later
and the gun will measure how FAR the target moved during that 20th of
a second, and how FAST the target must have been moving.
> There's no point in continuing until you STUDY basic physics and
> actually LEARN something about the subject (rather than just making
> stuff up and pretending it is true).
I agree there is no point in continuing if you cannot comprehend the
basic science and mechanics behind radar guns (and other experiments)
unless you have all the numbers you think you need to do the math.