If the Earth axis wobbles

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

the seasons would be changed...
Is there evidence?
That science is wrong. the Earth
axis does not wobble. or show the
seasons that have been changing...

Mitchell Raemsch

[Paul Alsing]

What do you mean "if", Mitch? Of course the Earth's axis wobbles, that is what we call "precession", and there is LOTS of evidence to support this notion... Perhaps you should study the subject matter before you go and make a complete fool of yourself yet again? It is a fascinating subject, and you will learn just how the Earth goes from a snowball Earth to a hellish hot Earth. Here, read all about it...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precession#Astronomy

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 8:40:45 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 2:02:30 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > the seasons would be changed...
> > Is there evidence?
> > That science is wrong. the Earth
> > axis does not wobble. or show the
> > seasons that have been changing...
> >
> > Mitchell Raemsch
> What do you mean "if", Mitch? Of course the Earth's axis wobbles, that is what we call "precession", and there is LOTS of evidence to support this notion...

If it wobbles the seasons would change for the Earth. Are they PNUT?
Have we measured the pole star move yet?

Mitchell Raemsch

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes,

Jan

[J. J. Lodder]

mitchr...@gmail.com <mitchr...@gmail.com> wrote:

> the seasons would be changed...
> Is there evidence?
> That science is wrong. the Earth
> axis does not wobble. or show the
> seasons that have been changing...

There is no 'if' about it.
And we have the IERS to keep track of where it is,
almost in real time,

Jan

[Paul B. Andersen]

https://explainingscience.org/2020/09/25/the-changing-pole-star/

--
Paul

https://paulba.no/

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

If the Earth wobbles it would change seasons.
But that is not happening.
Where is your pole star measurement as well?

Mitchell Raemsch

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

The pole star is in the same place. We have not seen it move.
Science just believes the Earth wobbles where there is no evidence for.
But there is evidence against it.

>
> --
> Paul
>
> https://paulba.no/

[Paul Alsing]

Of course we have, Mitch...

https://www.noozhawk.com/article/dennis_mammana_as_earth_wobbles_north_star_hangs_firm_in_the_sky_20180701

When the Egyptians were building the pyramids, Thuban was the pole star.

In 55 centuries Alderamin will be the pole star.

It only takes about 26,000 years for the north pole to inscribe a big 47-degree across circle in the sky...

Of course, with very little effort you could have just looked this up for yourself...

[Richard Hertz]

Green Sahara: African Humid Periods Paced by Earth's Orbital Changes. Paleoclimate and archaeological evidence tells us that, 11,000-5,000 years ago, the Earth's slow orbital 'wobble' transformed today's Sahara desert to a land covered with vegetation and lakes.

Not to mention glaciation periods and that Siberia was a tropical forest just 20,000 years ago. Mammoths buried as caught in an instant
giant blizzard, with grass in their stomach. Anyone is aware of that?

Climate changes can happen overnight. Earth is not a stable celestial body, yet.

The movie "The day after tomorrow" didn't come out of the mind of crazy Hollywood writers, but from a collection of scientific
theories. Of course, with the due drama to make it palatable.

By the way, was the Antarctic the place where Atlantis was? Did a migration exist toward the Middle East, around the Euphrates?

Truth is buried no less than half a kilometer there, and three kilometers at Antarctic.

[J. J. Lodder]

If you look things up you will find
that the Gregorian calendar reform of 1582 was made necessary
because the seasons -had- gotten out of step by ten days
with respect to the calendar,
(11 days by the time of the 'october revolution', which was in november)

Jan

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 8:54:53 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 9:14:53 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 8:40:45 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 2:02:30 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > the seasons would be changed...
> > > > Is there evidence?
> > > > That science is wrong. the Earth
> > > > axis does not wobble. or show the
> > > > seasons that have been changing...
> > > >
> > > > Mitchell Raemsch
> > > What do you mean "if", Mitch? Of course the Earth's axis wobbles, that is what we call "precession", and there is LOTS of evidence to support this notion...
> > If it wobbles the seasons would change for the Earth. Are they PNUT?
> > Have we measured the pole star move yet?
> Of course we have, Mitch...
>
> https://www.noozhawk.com/article/dennis_mammana_as_earth_wobbles_north_star_hangs_firm_in_the_sky_20180701
>

Yes. It has hung firm. There is no evidence contrary.

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

The seasons had got out of step you moron?
Now you believe climate change is not by man?

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

On Friday, May 27, 2022 at 9:56:06 PM UTC-7, Richard Hertz wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 12:54:53 AM UTC-3, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 9:14:53 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 8:40:45 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > > > On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 2:02:30 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > the seasons would be changed...
> > > > > Is there evidence?
> > > > > That science is wrong. the Earth
> > > > > axis does not wobble. or show the
> > > > > seasons that have been changing...
> > > > >
> > > > > Mitchell Raemsch
> > > > What do you mean "if", Mitch? Of course the Earth's axis wobbles, that is what we call "precession", and there is LOTS of evidence to support this notion...
> > > If it wobbles the seasons would change for the Earth. Are they PNUT?
> > > Have we measured the pole star move yet?
> > Of course we have, Mitch...
> >
> > https://www.noozhawk.com/article/dennis_mammana_as_earth_wobbles_north_star_hangs_firm_in_the_sky_20180701
> >
> > When the Egyptians were building the pyramids, Thuban was the pole star.

A different Egyptian name doesn't mean it was a different star.
Where is your proof it wasn't Polaris?

> >
> > In 55 centuries Alderamin will be the pole star.
> >
> > It only takes about 26,000 years for the north pole to inscribe a big 47-degree across circle in the sky...

We haven't measured that yet now have we?

> >
> > Of course, with very little effort you could have just looked this up for yourself...

You can't believe everything you read just because science says it...
Gravity does not influence an axis of rotation. How would it?
It would have to tug on both sides of the axis and in an opposite way.
That is wrong gravity.

Mitchell Raemsch

[Paul Alsing]

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:17:44 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 12:54:53 AM UTC-3, Paul Alsing wrote:

> > > When the Egyptians were building the pyramids, Thuban was the pole star.

> A different Egyptian name doesn't mean it was a different star.
> Where is your proof it wasn't Polaris?

Well, perhaps the fact that Thuban and Polaris are completely different stars would be a good start... from the northern hemisphere you can go outside on a clear night and see both of them in the sky.

Precession, Mitch, just go look it up for yourself... you can do that, right? Does someone wipe your ass for you, Mitch?

https://osr.org/blog/kids/thuban-ancient-north-star-of-the-egyptians/

The Egyptians built the Great Pyramid at Giza and they installed a peephole in it so that from inside the pyramid you could look through the opening and see their pole star... which was Thuban at the time!

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 11:18:40 AM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:17:44 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 12:54:53 AM UTC-3, Paul Alsing wrote:
>
> > > > When the Egyptians were building the pyramids, Thuban was the pole star.
>
> > A different Egyptian name doesn't mean it was a different star.
> > Where is your proof it wasn't Polaris?
> Well, perhaps the fact that Thuban and Polaris are completely different stars would be a good start...

How do you know they were different stars?
Where is your evidence?

Mitchell Raemsch

[Paul Alsing]

Ancient starmaps, Mitch.

Where is *your* evidence that Polaris will never move? Precision measuring, of course, clearly shows that Polaris undergoes proper motion... here is my evidence...

https://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2000A%26A...360..399W

... but you won't understand a word of it...

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 1:16:10 PM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 12:04:02 PM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 11:18:40 AM UTC-7, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 10:17:44 AM UTC-7, mitchr...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, May 28, 2022 at 12:54:53 AM UTC-3, Paul Alsing wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > When the Egyptians were building the pyramids, Thuban was the pole star.
> > >
> > > > A different Egyptian name doesn't mean it was a different star.
> > > > Where is your proof it wasn't Polaris?
> > > Well, perhaps the fact that Thuban and Polaris are completely different stars would be a good start...
> > How do you know they were different stars?
> > Where is your evidence?
> Ancient starmaps, Mitch.

Where are the different stars on those maps?
How would you know they are two different stars?



Mitchell Raemsch

[Mikko]

On 2022-05-28 21:12:18 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said:

> Where are the different stars on those maps?
> How would you know they are two different stars?

Copernicus, in Book Three of De revolutionibus, compares star
catalogs from different times, and notes that latitudes of the
stars are the same at all times but their longitudes as measured
from the point of spring equinox or summer solstice has changed.
Thus Copernicus reconfirmed what Hipparcos had suspected and Ptolemy
had confirmed more than a thousend years earler.

As the equinox and solstice points of ecliptic are related to
the poles this proves that the pole has moved. The relation
is that the summer solstice point is the point of ecliptic that
is the farthest from the north pole and the equinox points are
the two points of ecliptic that are as far from the solstice
points as they are from the poles.

Hipparcos also knew that durations of the seasons are not equal.
Later astronomers have measured that the durations of the seasons
now are different from their durations when Hipparcos measured them.

Mikko

[J. J. Lodder]

Indeed, they had. And it really did matter.
From time immemorial it has been the task of a priest class
to keep track of the seasons, from before the druids at Stonehenge
to the Roman clergy. (and then science took over)

The reason is that sowing at just the right time is fairly critical
in Western Europe. Sow too early, and it may not germinate,
or get killed by a late frost.
Sow too late, and it may not be ripe in time for harvesting,
or get destroyed by autumn storms or rains.
Both will result in a famine.
Farmers don't just 'know it', they have to be told.

The reason that the Roman church cared
about the seasons being ten days out of sync with the calendar
was that they wanted to tie the events of everyday life
to the date of Easter.

So some cleric called Copernicus had to find out
how to do it right. And you know what happened next...

Jan

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

If the axis wobbles the same every time polaris will become the pole star again.
The Earth doesn't wobble but there is drift.

Mitchell Raemsch

[Paul Alsing]

You can call it wobble or drift, but science calls it precession... and yes, if precession was perfect, Polaris would become the pole star every 26,000 years or so... but precession is probably not that perfect.

[J. J. Lodder]

> > > > The seasons had got out of step you moron?
> > > Indeed, they had. And it really did matter.
> > > From time immemorial it has been the task of a priest class
> > > to keep track of the seasons, from before the druids at Stonehenge
> > > to the Roman clergy. (and then science took over)
> > >
> > > The reason is that sowing at just the right time is fairly critical
> > > in Western Europe. Sow too early, and it may not germinate,
> > > or get killed by a late frost.
> > > Sow too late, and it may not be ripe in time for harvesting,
> > > or get destroyed by autumn storms or rains.
> > > Both will result in a famine.
> > > Farmers don't just 'know it', they have to be told.
> > >
> > > The reason that the Roman church cared
> > > about the seasons being ten days out of sync with the calendar
> > > was that they wanted to tie the events of everyday life
> > > to the date of Easter.
> > >
> > > So some cleric called Copernicus had to find out
> > > how to do it right. And you know what happened next...
> > >
> > > Jan
>
> > If the axis wobbles the same every time polaris will become the pole
> > star again. The Earth doesn't wobble but there is drift.
>
> You can call it wobble or drift, but science calls it precession... and
> yes, if precession was perfect, Polaris would become the pole star every
> 26,000 years or so... but precession is probably not that perfect.

And Polaris won't stay put,

Jan

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

But that's not wobble that is drift jan.
Can't you do better?

> Jan

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

Stellar drift is not axis wobble so you can't call them the same imbecile.
So how is it order if it doesn't repeat the same. Gravity isn't changing in the solar system now is it?
How does gravity tug on both sides of the axis?

Mitchell Raemsch

[J. J. Lodder]

Do you really have to misunderstand everything about it?

Jan
(getting my coat)

[Ross A. Finlayson]

What's really great about "the Earth is tilted to the Sun exactly 23.5
degrees" and "the Earth is in planets orbiting the Sun" and "the Moon,
of Earth, follows its usual orbit and track orbiting the Earth", is that it
really helps to set the notion "and it's always been this way in geologic
time", now though I find it incredibly fascinating, that you are really
describing anything different about the calendars, or as from
days between calendars.

Or, that's lot more wobble - star fields are "immobile, celestial, spheres".

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 2:30:13 PM UTC-7, Ross A. Finlayson wrote:
> On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 2:55:43 AM UTC-7, Mikko wrote:
> > On 2022-05-28 21:12:18 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said:
> >
> > > Where are the different stars on those maps?
> > > How would you know they are two different stars?
> > Copernicus, in Book Three of De revolutionibus, compares star
> > catalogs from different times, and notes that latitudes of the
> > stars are the same at all times but their longitudes as measured
> > from the point of spring equinox or summer solstice has changed.
> > Thus Copernicus reconfirmed what Hipparcos had suspected and Ptolemy
> > had confirmed more than a thousend years earler.
> >
> > As the equinox and solstice points of ecliptic are related to
> > the poles this proves that the pole has moved. The relation
> > is that the summer solstice point is the point of ecliptic that
> > is the farthest from the north pole and the equinox points are
> > the two points of ecliptic that are as far from the solstice
> > points as they are from the poles.
> >
> > Hipparcos also knew that durations of the seasons are not equal.
> > Later astronomers have measured that the durations of the seasons
> > now are different from their durations when Hipparcos measured them.
> >
> > Mikko
> What's really great about "the Earth is tilted to the Sun exactly 23.5

That is going to remain exact. How does gravity move an axis of rotation?
It doesn't because it would have to move the axis opposite on both sides.

Mitchell Raemsch

[Ross A. Finlayson]

If according to Olbers sky is dark,
how does time lapse photography about pole,
always find a star at north pole?

"There's always star-light at the North and South pole(s)"?

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

Who told you the sky is dark?

[J. J. Lodder]

Mikko <mikko....@iki.fi> wrote:

> On 2022-05-28 21:12:18 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said:
>
> > Where are the different stars on those maps?
> > How would you know they are two different stars?
>
> Copernicus, in Book Three of De revolutionibus, compares star
> catalogs from different times, and notes that latitudes of the
> stars are the same at all times but their longitudes as measured
> from the point of spring equinox or summer solstice has changed.
> Thus Copernicus reconfirmed what Hipparcos had suspected and Ptolemy
> had confirmed more than a thousend years earler.

The Babylonians already knew about 'the equation of time',
both the yearly part, caused by ellipticity,
and the half-yearly part, caused by inclination.
Ptolemy had epicycles of the Sun to describe it.
There were practical applications in astrology.

> As the equinox and solstice points of ecliptic are related to
> the poles this proves that the pole has moved. The relation
> is that the summer solstice point is the point of ecliptic that
> is the farthest from the north pole and the equinox points are
> the two points of ecliptic that are as far from the solstice
> points as they are from the poles.
>
> Hipparcos also knew that durations of the seasons are not equal.

Fortunately for us summers are longer than winters.
Those Ozzies just have bad luck.

> Later astronomers have measured that the durations of the seasons
> now are different from their durations when Hipparcos measured them.

Nowadays one easily measures the day by day pole motion.
In the short term by GPS, in the long term by VLBI.
The IERS is tasked with publising the 'Earth orientation parameters',
which give both the axis orientation and the angle of rotation,

Jan

[Mikko]

On 2022-05-30 08:17:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> Mikko <mikko....@iki.fi> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-05-28 21:12:18 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said:
>>
>>> Where are the different stars on those maps?
>>> How would you know they are two different stars?
>>
>> Copernicus, in Book Three of De revolutionibus, compares star
>> catalogs from different times, and notes that latitudes of the
>> stars are the same at all times but their longitudes as measured
>> from the point of spring equinox or summer solstice has changed.
>> Thus Copernicus reconfirmed what Hipparcos had suspected and Ptolemy
>> had confirmed more than a thousend years earler.
>
> The Babylonians already knew about 'the equation of time',
> both the yearly part, caused by ellipticity,
> and the half-yearly part, caused by inclination.

But not about the precession.

> Ptolemy had epicycles of the Sun to describe it.

No, Ptolemy's theory of the motion of Sun (or Earth -- Ptlemy could not
determine which one is moving but choose to describe his theory in terms
of stationary Earth) did not use epicycles. Sun's motion was described
as a non-uniform motion along an eccentric circle.

> There were practical applications in astrology.

Ptolemy left unanswered one important question: what is the correct
definition of the zero point of Aries for astrological purposes?

> Fortunately for us summers are longer than winters.
> Those Ozzies just have bad luck.

Now, but it is changing.

Mikko

[J. J. Lodder]

Mikko <mikko....@iki.fi> wrote:

> On 2022-05-30 08:17:08 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:
>
> > Mikko <mikko....@iki.fi> wrote:
> >
> >> On 2022-05-28 21:12:18 +0000, mitchr...@gmail.com said:
> >>
> >>> Where are the different stars on those maps?
> >>> How would you know they are two different stars?
> >>
> >> Copernicus, in Book Three of De revolutionibus, compares star
> >> catalogs from different times, and notes that latitudes of the
> >> stars are the same at all times but their longitudes as measured
> >> from the point of spring equinox or summer solstice has changed.
> >> Thus Copernicus reconfirmed what Hipparcos had suspected and Ptolemy
> >> had confirmed more than a thousend years earler.
> >
> > The Babylonians already knew about 'the equation of time',
> > both the yearly part, caused by ellipticity,
> > and the half-yearly part, caused by inclination.
>
> But not about the precession.

Indeed no, that was Hipparcos. (it takes time)

> > Ptolemy had epicycles of the Sun to describe it.
>

> No, Ptolemy's theory of the motion of Sun (or Earth -- Ptolemy could not

> determine which one is moving but choose to describe his theory in terms
> of stationary Earth) did not use epicycles. Sun's motion was described
> as a non-uniform motion along an eccentric circle.

You may well be right. I did not look at the technicalities.

> > There were practical applications in astrology.
>
> Ptolemy left unanswered one important question: what is the correct
> definition of the zero point of Aries for astrological purposes?

Didn't they lock it in Aries?

> > Fortunately for us summers are longer than winters.
> > Those Ozzies just have bad luck.
>
> Now, but it is changing.

Sure, Milankovic will have his revenge,

Jan
(not holding my breath)

[Maciej Wozniak]

On Tuesday, 31 May 2022 at 11:59:13 UTC+2, Mikko wrote:

> No, Ptolemy's theory of the motion of Sun (or Earth -- Ptlemy could not
> determine which one is moving

What a great example of the obedience to the Laws of Nature,
announced by great Galileo.
Unlike Copernicus. For sure, Copernicus didn't understand
that the Laws of Nature are forbidding him what he did.

> but choose to describe his theory in terms
> of stationary Earth) did not use epicycles. Sun's motion was described
> as a non-uniform motion along an eccentric circle.

As it is from the point of view of an Earth observer, i.e.
all of us.

[Mikko]

On 2022-05-31 11:41:52 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

> Mikko <mikko....@iki.fi> wrote:

>> Ptolemy left unanswered one important question: what is the correct
>> definition of the zero point of Aries for astrological purposes?
>
> Didn't they lock it in Aries?

Most astrologers in Europe and India use Ptolemy's works as the basis
of their astrology. But Ptolemy did not specify the exact origin of
the zodiac. In European tradition the first point of Aries is taken to
be the point of the veran equinox whereas in the Indian tradition
the signs are attached to the stars so that the longitudes of the fixed
starts are the same as in Ptolemy's time. Conseqently, in the Indian
tradition the signs roughly agree with the corresponding constellations
but in the European tradition they are off by nearly one sign.

Mikko

[J. J. Lodder]

Yes, te Age of Aquarius and all that.

Anyway, for what it is worth: the equation of time
was important for astrologers striving for precision
because time of birth was usually know in terms of solar time,
like two hours after noon,
while the positions of the planets were known with respect to the stars.

It is a tribute to the capabilities of those early Babylonian observers
that they were capable of discovering it,

Jan

[mitchr...@gmail.com]

There is drift jan not wobble.