Finite Universe -> Infinite Universe.
Sanny
------------------------
Then everything in Universe is finite.
Line will have edges We cant say a line of infinite length.
Number of atoms in world will also be finite.
Max size of Sphere/ Circle/ Elipse will also be finite.
CASE II : Universe is infinite.
------------------------
Then everything in Universe will be infinite.
Number of atoms in Universe will be infinite.
Amount of water in Universe Infinite.
Number of Stars in Universe: Infinite
Number of Black Holes: Infinite.
Number of Planets having Life Infinite.
====================================
So what do you choose CASE I or CASE II or both????
Bye
Sanny
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Sir Frederick
>CASE I : Universe is Finite.
>------------------------
>
>Then everything in Universe is finite.
>
>Line will have edges We cant say a line of infinite length.
>
>Number of atoms in world will also be finite.
>
>Max size of Sphere/ Circle/ Elipse will also be finite.
>
>CASE II : Universe is infinite.
>------------------------
>
>Then everything in Universe will be infinite.
>
>Number of atoms in Universe will be infinite.
>
>Amount of water in Universe Infinite.
>
>Number of Stars in Universe: Infinite
>
>Number of Black Holes: Infinite.
>
>Number of Planets having Life Infinite.
>
>====================================
>
>So what do you choose CASE I or CASE II or both????
>
Neither. The model in your brain is what you must live with.
'Reality', whatever that is, is so far removed from your model
and model constraints, that your hubris is showing in your efforts.
Humans are model driven structures. 'We' need our stories.
calvin
infinities still exist either way.
Uncle Al
>
> CASE I : Universe is Finite.
> ------------------------
>
> Then everything in Universe is finite.
Hey stooopid - what is the interior diameter of a black hole? It is
infinite. The outside diameter is finite.
idiot
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
hanson
"Uncle rect-Al" <Uncl...@hate.spam.net> Schwartz wrote:
>
in-Sanny Tranny wrote:
CASE I : Universe is Finite.
>
rect-Al wrote:
Hey stooopid - what is the interior diameter of a black hole?
It is infinite. The outside diameter is finite.
idiot
>
ahahaha... Tranny, listen. ... rect-Al Schwartz knows,
which is why he is so adamant and calls you "idiot".
Here he demonstrates, himself, on his own website,
what he means:
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg
>
Thanks for the laughs, guys... ahahaha... ahahanson
namekuseijin
Sanny escreveu:
--
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9
tooly
"Sir Frederick" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
news:v9vc35dft07rj92md...@4ax.com...
What makes our heart beat. I really don't think I have any hubris
left...all stripped away now. But my heart keeps on beating. I can't will
it to stop. It just keeps on going like timex. If science takes away our
soul [by erradicated our capacity to believe in our stories anymore], then
should it not also provide those of us who now want out, a peaceful exit?
What the fuck makes that heart beat though. Just chemical electricity? Why
do we feel...emotion?
Sir Frederick
Sorry, you can't stop your hubris either. Heart and hubris come 'wired' in through
evolution.
'Feelings', BTW, are qualia on primitive pre sentient brain body systems, including 'emotions'.
An oyster has something similar, though it probably doesn't experience the qualia.
T-wrecks
> Why do we feel...emotion?
Because you're used to it. You've been raised with it, and it is
hardwired into you're brain.
Would you WANT to go through life with no emotion?
tooly
Well...I suppose I refer to that part of hubris that is esteem.
Doesn't pain have something to do with emotion...and the fear that is
reactionary to it? Bio Systems were perhaps created under prolonged stable
environments...only to eventually find that those environments CAN [and
often DO ]come unhinged after a time...and thusly throwing those evolved
system into chaos...and the functional nerve endings sending message of high
alarm. We live most of our lives free from pain, but in a fog of illusion
that it no longer sits over us like vultures standing in ready for its
eventual prey.
Intelligence (nd hubris) saw this throughout history, and found a vehicle
for empowerment. THREAT of pain became the driving force of behavior on
this planet. Especially our social driving forces [if one thinks it
through]. I get up and go to work in the morning, not because I"m happy go
chirpy as a lark in a meadow...but because I FEAR pain...here in the form of
repurcussions if I discontinue my income and the ramifications therein, that
invite all sort of unpleasantness, ending in pain as extreme conclusions to
those repurcussions. If one looks at the essential driving forces of what
makes us behave, I think FEAR will be at the core...and fear driven by pain
[the possibility and threat of].
If there is a god, I think he must be reconsidering the redemptive quality
of life by now. Don't you [everyone else]? Or else, perhaps we've slipped
into hell somehow without knowing? I liked the thread about time though. I
lean toward the idea of 'infinite time' myself [or is that eternal?], a
product of string theory although a bit convultued for most perhaps...but
which means all that has or will exist, already exists [sort of like
creation being on a road to nowhere that never ends]. This creates a static
condition of heaven and hell as extreme boundaries of a living experience
[at least descriptive, and what else is language but descriptive of
experience], while all the while only products of illusionary perception.
Pain makes it all very real though...and NO GAME...or parlour play such as
here on alt.philosophy.
We are smart creatures. What can we do about PAIN? We should demand from
the gods to stop this foolishness...or else threaten to 'quit'....leaving
them to their empty voided space of nothingness. At the very least, we
could use some advice on how to BE. The God...or some god, needs to show
up...and fast [before Obama puts us into a tailspin that will bring pain
upon our heads like no one has ever seen].
Androcles
"calvin" <cri...@windstream.net> wrote in message
news:95d1c5e6-83df-49e5...@y33g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>I[t] doesn't matter if the universe is infinite or not. Mathematical
> infinities still exist either way.
Now that is an astute observation.
Nor does it matter if the universe is finite or not, we could never discover
its limit if it were.
Sir Frederick
>
>"Sir Frederick" <mmcn...@fuzzysys.com> wrote in message
>news:4k8d3599f4tcgph5v...@4ax.com...
I don't have all of an answer, just some perspectives.
1. IMO the 'feeling' of pain and the body brain evaluation
and response are not totally decoupled, but at least different.
An oyster 'responds' to damage, though it probably does not
'feel' pain. Then there are narcotics that stop 'pain',
but not any body response. Again 'we' are model driven creatures.
2. As far as the 'god' thing goes, I don't practice those stories,
though I do go to church for the community. Personally I don't
find that the situation cares one wit. Any gods must be crazy,
like 'us'.
3. Any dealing with the quale of pain, can be similar as any dealing with
other qualia. Recognize it as a representation of a brain body state
and act wisely, rather than in strictly a primitive reflex.
4. "Dare" was asking something similar recently. That thread advice
may be applicable to dealing with pain.
5. 'We' are evolved finite physical structures, in a problematic situation,
not of 'our' own choosing and must simply keep on truckin'.
6. Personally, globally, and politically I think the situation sucks,
but I must keep on keepin on. Unfortunately there is no grand scheme
of things, that's one of the reasons we need 'our' stories, though they be
fiction and deceitful.
7. Other than that, there probably is no 'answer'.
calvin
> 7. Other than that, there probably is no 'answer'.
Meher Baba (1894-1969)
Sir Frederick
You like those stories?
See :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meher_Baba
Notice the picture.
"Meher Baba (Devanagari: ????? ???? ), (February 25, 1894 � January 31, 1969), born Merwan Sheriar
Irani, was an Indian mystic and spiritual master who declared publicly in 1954 that he was the
Avatar of the age.
He led a normal childhood, showing no particular inclination toward spiritual matters, until the age
of 19, when a brief contact with the Muslim holy woman Hazrat Babajan triggered a seven-year process
of spiritual transformation.[1][2] Over the next months he contacted four additional spiritual
figures whom, along with Babajan, he called "the five Perfect Masters." He spent seven years in
spiritual training with one of them, Upasni Maharaj, before beginning his public work.[3] The name
Meher Baba means "Compassionate Father" and was given to him by his first followers.[4]
From July 10, 1925, to the end of his life, Meher Baba maintained silence, and communicated by means
of an alphabet board or by unique hand gestures.[5] With his mandali ('circle' of disciples), he
spent long periods in seclusion, often fasting, but he would intersperse these periods with
wide-ranging travels, public gatherings, and works of charity, including working with lepers, the
poor, and the mentally ill.
In 1931 he made the first of many visits to the West, gathering many followers.[6] Throughout most
of the 1940s he worked with an enigmatic type of people that he said were advanced souls and which
he termed masts.[7] Starting in 1949, along with selected mandali, he traveled incognito about India
in what he called "The New Life." On February 10, 1954, Meher Baba declared that he was the Avatar
(an incarnation of God).[8]
After suffering as a passenger in two automobile accidents, one in the United States in 1952 and one
in India in 1956, his capacity to walk became seriously limited.[9][10] In 1962 he invited his
western followers to India for a mass darshan called The East-West Gathering.[11] Concerned by an
increasing use of LSD and other psychedelic drugs,[12] in 1966 Meher Baba addressed their use and
discredited any alleged spiritual benefits.[13] Despite deteriorating health, he continued his
"universal work," which included fasting, seclusion, and meditation, until he died on January 31,
1969. His samadhi (tomb-shrine) in Meherabad, India has become a place of international
pilgrimage.[14]"
-------------------------------------------------
For more :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meher_Baba
BradGuth
Sanny, having a known/finite quantity or lifespan seems more
comforting.
However, I agree that our expanding universe is also the next best
thing to infinite.
~ BG
BradGuth
> Sanny wrote:
>
> > CASE I : Universe is Finite.
> > ------------------------
>
> > Then everything in Universe is finite.
>
> [snip rest of crap]
>
> Hey stooopid - what is the interior diameter of a black hole? It is
> infinite. The outside diameter is finite.
>
> idiot
>
> --
> (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
Just because you hate all of humanity and don't give a crap about our
environment is no good reason to be so public about it.
~ BG
calvin
> ...
> However, I agree that our expanding universe is also the next best
> thing to infinite.
The enormity of our galaxy is the next best thing
to infinite.
tooly
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:36:11 -0700 (PDT), calvin <cri...@windstream.net>
> wrote:
>
>>On Jun 15, 7:53 pm, Sir Frederick <mmcne...@fuzzysys.com> wrote:
>>> 7. Other than that, there probably is no 'answer'.
>>
>>Meher Baba (1894-1969)
>
> You like those stories?
> See :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meher_Baba
> Notice the picture.
Do you think his [Meher Baba], was an easier death?
Our consciousness is evolving...now flooded with information. Old world
mysticism is rather contrite in the face of new consciousness, replete with
vast insights to our material existence. Old stories can still apply, but
only in special ways now [if to be substantive]. One must have the
associative capacity of a poet I think; to find meaning as one would in
algebraic equations that apply across math of all types as
'relationships'...and harder to relate in concrete form. I used the ideas
of 'heaven and hell' in a earlier post on this thread for example...not as a
concreteness, but as an associative quality to experience and a reference to
life's extremes. But as one carries the thought across time, as a static
condition of BEing, I think there is good argument for that concreteness.
Heaven and Hell become more a condition, or state...as we move through time,
whereby some redemptive value saves us from a foundation of 'pain and
misery' as our more natural state, [without illusion...or as Sir suggests,
stories that might otherwise save us..but to me, still just a question of
illusion]. Having moved from the mystical side as found in my once upon a
time Christian belief system [as provided by church doctrine], I can attest
to how illusion can indeed, SAVE us from this morbidity that I hate to say,
few really understand all that well. Most intellectuals arguing so
vigorously to destroy old stories [illusions] are themselves standing on
foundations as flimsly as styrofoam on a hot fire, while tossing what are at
least functional life rafts in an open sea of conscious possibility..away.
The naivette is astounding...but I suppose, to be expected [ergo, given that
hubris that Sir talks about].
So, I'll use that poetic license to provide our hubris with another
quandry...that of devils and demons afloat through time and space undefined,
now roaming amongst us a product of 'pulling up anchor' on our conscious
state just to let a few empowered brains amongst us play. We may not be the
center of this universe, but we are the center of our own experience. I
don't think we understand what insanity is...though we try through language.
I have suspicion it is perhaps fear unbridled, a primal force from which
life itself sprang, through darkness so complete as to be nothing...except
our consciousness.
Benj
> Sanny, having a known/finite quantity or lifespan seems more
> comforting.
>
> However, I agree that our expanding universe is also the next best
> thing to infinite.
>
> ~ BG
I love it when I find someone who has had their life transformed by
faith! May you continue to find comfort in the certainty of your faith-
based physics!
BURT
God's going to renew the Sun.
ZerkonXXXX
> If science takes away our soul...
You never really had one if something can just 'take it away'.
Uncle Al
Hey stooopid - if the US government were given $1 for every star in
the Milky Way, at current rates of expenditure it would exhaust that
bindlestaff in 6 days. Tell us how that is "the next best thing to
infinite".
The number of integers is infinite. The number of points on a line is
infinitely larger than the number of integers. The number of
functions through a point is infintely larger than the number of
points on a line.
Which infinity is large enough, git?
--
Uncle Al
tooly
"ZerkonXXXX" <Z...@erkonx.net> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.06...@erkonx.net...
> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 15:16:30 -0400, tooly wrote:
>
>> If science takes away our soul...
>
> You never really had one if something can just 'take it away'.
>
Oh, I dunno. What is despondency except the loss of vitality, enjoyment.
That's pretty close to whatever soul we might 'not' have had. Everything is
a mental gestalt. Rob one of that gestalt...the 'reason' to carry on...and
all we really have here is a disagreement of semantics. After all, a rose
smells as sweet by whatever name we call it; and hell's emptiness no less
vacuous.
Of course, it's easy to 'speak a thing', but not really 'live what you
speak'. The modern reductionist philosopher is like a child visiting a zoo
where all the terrible monsters are safely kept behind thick glass cages.
Like parlour objects to stimulate debate, no one really thinks the monsters
could ever really break out. But break out, one has. It now devours
us...though you may have not felt it's teeth yet. Good for you. Perhaps
you will be last to be eaten...but it will eat you.
BradGuth
That's also true, especially seeing that we can't even walk on our own
moon, much less Mars, and the nearest exoplanets are generations away
from even our fastest probes reaching out to whatever exoplanet.
~ BG
BradGuth
I have faith in the regular laws of physics, and I fully accept the
best available science that's independently peer replicated. How
about your mainstream faith of a closed mindset that uses obfuscation
as based upon conditional physics and the kinds of fuzzy science that
can not be replicated?
~ BG
calvin
> On Jun 15, 7:05 pm, calvin <cri...@windstream.net> wrote:
> > The enormity of our galaxy is the next best thing
> > to infinite.
>
> That's also true, especially seeing that we can't even walk on our own
We can't walk on our own moon today, 6/16/2009,
but we can walk on it, as proven by the fact that we
have walked on it.
G. L. Bradford
"Sanny" <softt...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a843fbcf-ad30-4b36...@d7g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
> CASE I : Universe is Finite.
> ------------------------
>
> Then everything in Universe is finite.
>
>
> Number of atoms in world will also be finite.
>
> Max size of Sphere/ Circle/ Elipse will also be finite.
>
> CASE II : Universe is infinite.
>
> Then everything in Universe will be infinite.
>
> Number of atoms in Universe will be infinite.
>
> Amount of water in Universe Infinite.
>
> Number of Stars in Universe: Infinite
>
> Number of Black Holes: Infinite.
>
> Number of Planets having Life Infinite.
>
> ====================================
>
> So what do you choose CASE I or CASE II or both????
>
> Bye
> Sanny
>
> ======================================
The sphere is one of ten within a sphere, which is one of ten within a
sphere....to infinity.
Within the original sphere are ten spheres, each of which contain ten
spheres within....to infinity.
In total, how many spheres are there? Infinity? Ten? Or just one?
GLB
=======================================