VERY DIFFICULT DEDUCTIONS IN EINSTEIN ZOMBIE WORLD
Pentcho Valev
at the front end emits light with speed c relative to the source. A
receiver at the back end receives the light and measures its speed c'
to be:
Premise 1: constant, c'=c.
Premise 2: variable, c'=c+v, where v is the relative speed of the
light source (at the moment of emission) and the receiver (at the
moment of reception).
A light source at the top of a tower of height h emits light with
speed c relative to the source. A receiver on the ground receives the
light.
Prediction 1 deduced from Premise 1: The receiver on the ground will
measure the speed of light to be constant, c'=c.
Prediction 2 deduced from Premise 2: The receiver on the ground will
measure the speed of light to be variable, c'=c(1+gh/c^2), an equation
Einstein deduced in 1911. The receiver will also measure the
gravitational redshift factor to be 1+gh/c^2, a value predicted by
Einstein and confirmed experimentally by Pound and Rebka in 1960.
Pentcho Valev
pva...@yahoo.com
Pentcho Valev
There are Einsteinians who make confessions consistent with Premise 2
and Prediction 2:
http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/papers/OntologyOUP_TimesNR.pdf "What Can
We Learn about the Ontology of Space and Time from the Theory of
Relativity?", John D. Norton: "In general relativity there is no
comparable sense of the constancy of the speed of light. The constancy
of the speed of light is a consequence of the perfect homogeneity of
spacetime presumed in special relativity. There is a special velocity
at each event; homogeneity forces it to be the same velocity
everywhere. We lose that homogeneity in the transition to general
relativity and with it we lose the constancy of the speed of light.
Such was Einstein's conclusion at the earliest moments of his
preparation for general relativity. ALREADY IN 1907, A MERE TWO YEARS
AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE SPECIAL THEORY, HE HAD CONCLUDED THAT THE
SPEED OF LIGHT IS VARIABLE IN THE PRESENCE OF A GRAVITATIONAL FIELD."
http://www.logosjournal.com/issue_4.3/smolin.htm Lee Smolin: "Quantum
theory was not the only theory that bothered Einstein. Few people have
appreciated how dissatisfied he was with his own theories of
relativity. Special relativity grew out of Einstein's insight that the
laws of electromagnetism cannot depend on relative motion and that the
speed of light therefore must be always the same, no matter how the
source or the observer moves. Among the consequences of that theory
are that energy and mass are equivalent (the now-legendary
relationship E = mc2) and that time and distance are relative, not
absolute. SPECIAL RELATIVITY WAS THE RESULT OF 10 YEARS OF
INTELLECTUAL STRUGGLE, YET EINSTEIN HAD CONVINCED HIMSELF IT WAS WRONG
WITHIN TWO YEARS OF PUBLISHING IT."
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae13.cfm
"So, it is absolutely true that the speed of light is _not_ constant
in a gravitational field [which, by the equivalence principle, applies
as well to accelerating (non-inertial) frames of reference]. If this
were not so, there would be no bending of light by the gravitational
field of stars....Indeed, this is exactly how Einstein did the
calculation in: 'On the Influence of Gravitation on the Propagation of
Light,' Annalen der Physik, 35, 1911. which predated the full formal
development of general relativity by about four years. This paper is
widely available in English. You can find a copy beginning on page 99
of the Dover book 'The Principle of Relativity.' You will find in
section 3 of that paper, Einstein's derivation of the (variable) speed
of light in a gravitational potential, eqn (3). The result is,
c' = c0 ( 1 + V / c^2 )
where V is the gravitational potential relative to the point where the
speed of light c0 is measured."
http://www.blazelabs.com/f-g-gcont.asp "The first confirmation of a
long range variation in the speed of light travelling in space came in
1964. Irwin Shapiro, it seems, was the first to make use of a
previously forgotten facet of general relativity theory -- that the
speed of light is reduced when it passes through a gravitational
field....Faced with this evidence, Einstein stated:"In the second
place our result shows that, according to the general theory of
relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in
vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the
special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently
referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of
light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light
varies with position."......Today we find that since the Special
Theory of Relativity unfortunately became part of the so called
mainstream science, it is considered a sacrilege to even suggest that
the speed of light be anything other than a constant. This is somewhat
surprising since even Einstein himself suggested in a paper "On the
Influence of Gravitation on the Propagation of Light," Annalen der
Physik, 35, 1911, that the speed of light might vary with the
gravitational potential. Indeed, the variation of the speed of light
in a vacuum or space is explicitly shown in Einstein's calculation for
the angle at which light should bend upon the influence of gravity.
One can find his calculation in his paper. The result is c'=c(1+V/c^2)
where V is the gravitational potential relative to the point where the
measurement is taken. 1+V/c^2 is also known as the GRAVITATIONAL
REDSHIFT FACTOR."
Pentcho Valev
pva...@yahoo.com
PD
> A rocket with length h accelerates with acceleration g. A light source
> at the front end emits light with speed c relative to the source. A
> receiver at the back end receives the light and measures its speed c'
> to be:
>
> Premise 1: constant, c'=c.
>
> Premise 2: variable, c'=c+v, where v is the relative speed of the
> light source (at the moment of emission) and the receiver (at the
> moment of reception).
>
> A light source at the top of a tower of height h emits light with
> speed c relative to the source. A receiver on the ground receives the
> light.
>
> Prediction 1 deduced from Premise 1: The receiver on the ground will
> measure the speed of light to be constant, c'=c.
Not quite right. The receiver on the ground will measure the speed of
light to be constant, c'=c, AND the receiver will also measure the
gravitational redshift factor to be 1 + gh/c^2. Both of these
statements are confirmed by experiment, and both of those statements
are consistent with GR as published in 1915.
Einstein did not formulate the *correct* theory of GR until 1915. Work
beyond SR and prior to 1911 contained a number of statements that were
later corrected by himself. It is not unusual in science for an author
to publish "work in progress" which later gets corrected.
Androcles
"PD" <TheDrap...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1ec5e5ad-9aa3-4724...@2g2000hsn.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 30, 12:28 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A rocket with length h accelerates with acceleration g. A light source
> at the front end emits light with speed c relative to the source. A
> receiver at the back end receives the light and measures its speed c'
> to be:
>
> Premise 1: constant, c'=c.
>
> Premise 2: variable, c'=c+v, where v is the relative speed of the
> light source (at the moment of emission) and the receiver (at the
> moment of reception).
>
> A light source at the top of a tower of height h emits light with
> speed c relative to the source. A receiver on the ground receives the
> light.
>
> Prediction 1 deduced from Premise 1: The receiver on the ground will
> measure the speed of light to be constant, c'=c.
| Not
The confessed troll, Phuckwit Duck, moves his "NOT" to first place.
Pentcho Valev
> On Mar 30, 12:28 am, Pentcho Valev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A rocket with length h accelerates with acceleration g. A light source
> > at the front end emits light with speed c relative to the source. A
> > receiver at the back end receives the light and measures its speed c'
> > to be:
>
> > Premise 1: constant, c'=c.
>
> > Premise 2: variable, c'=c+v, where v is the relative speed of the
> > light source (at the moment of emission) and the receiver (at the
> > moment of reception).
>
> > A light source at the top of a tower of height h emits light with
> > speed c relative to the source. A receiver on the ground receives the
> > light.
>
> > Prediction 1 deduced from Premise 1: The receiver on the ground will
> > measure the speed of light to be constant, c'=c.
>
> Not quite right. The receiver on the ground will measure the speed of
> light to be constant, c'=c, AND the receiver will also measure the
> gravitational redshift factor to be 1 + gh/c^2. Both of these
> statements are confirmed by experiment, and both of those statements
> are consistent with GR as published in 1915.
>
> Einstein did not formulate the *correct* theory of GR until 1915. Work
> beyond SR and prior to 1911 contained a number of statements that were
> later corrected by himself. It is not unusual in science for an author
> to publish "work in progress" which later gets corrected.
Why don't you learn by rote Master Steve Carlip's explanation:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html
Master Steve Carlip: " Einstein went on to discover a more general
theory of relativity which explained gravity in terms of curved
spacetime, and he talked about the speed of light changing in this new
theory. In the 1920 book "Relativity: the special and general theory"
he wrote: ". . . according to the general theory of relativity, the
law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which
constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions in the special
theory of relativity [. . .] cannot claim any unlimited validity. A
curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of
propagation of light varies with position." Since Einstein talks of
velocity (a vector quantity: speed with direction) rather than speed
alone, it is not clear that he meant the speed will change, but the
reference to special relativity suggests that he did mean so. This
interpretation is perfectly valid and makes good physical sense, but a
more modern interpretation is that the speed of light is constant in
general relativity."
As you can see, in 1920 Einstein still believed in a gravitational
field the speed of light is variable and "this interpretation is
perfectly valid and makes good physical sense" but, on the other hand,
Master Steve Carlip also says the speed of light is constant and
that's it. As long as you repeat Master Steve Carlip's words and do
not try to advance your zombie ideas, no anti-relativist will be able
to prove you wrong.
Pentcho Valev
pva...@yahoo.com
PD
Because I do not have learn this by rote.
Nor do I fret, like you do, that science does not come out of the box,
fully finished and in final form, from the outset. One of the
beautiful things about science, which you apparently find to be an
abomination and a horror, is that ideas and understanding of how
nature works *develops* with time, and that the language used to
describe new ideas also develops with time and becomes more refined.
And there is much discussion, with differing viewpoints, that goes on
in the course of that development. And this is all a *good* thing, and
is one of the *strengths* of science, rather than the weakness you
perceive it to be.
The fact that Einstein did not have from the outset as clear and as
refined an understanding of general relativity as we do today does not
in the least detract from the fact that he was the originator of the
principle ideas that led to the development. It is not required that
he deliver the idea in fully formed and fully finished fashion for him
to be acknowledged for his contribution. Similarly, Darwin had
absolutely no understanding of DNA or the source of heritable traits,
but he is credited with evolution of those heritable traits
nevertheless, and appropriately so. Similarly, Pasteur had no
understanding of how immune response works, and yet he is credited
with creation of the first vaccine for rabies.
If you expect that ANY scientific development should come fully
finished from the outset, with no further development of the ideas,
then you have no idea how science works. This comes as no surprise,
because there is no evidence that you have had any training or
practice in science to know how it *should* work.
Androcles
"Pentcho Valev" <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d54cf1f2-59cd-4b0a...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
| As you can see,
Error: Draper is incapable of seeing.
Pentcho Valev
> On Mar 30, 7:28 am,PentchoValev <pva...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > A rocket with length h accelerates with acceleration g. A light source
> > at the front end emits light with speed c relative to the source. A
> > receiver at the back end receives the light and measures its speed c'
> > to be:
>
> > Premise 1: constant, c'=c.
>
> > Premise 2: variable, c'=c+v, where v is the relative speed of the
> > light source (at the moment of emission) and the receiver (at the
> > moment of reception).
>
> > A light source at the top of a tower of height h emits light with
> > speed c relative to the source. A receiver on the ground receives the
> > light.
>
> > Prediction 1 deduced from Premise 1: The receiver on the ground will
> > measure the speed of light to be constant, c'=c.
>
> > Prediction 2 deduced from Premise 2: The receiver on the ground will
> > measure the speed of light to be variable, c'=c(1+gh/c^2), an equation
> > Einstein deduced in 1911. The receiver will also measure the
> > gravitational redshift factor to be 1+gh/c^2, a value predicted by
Of course, most Einsteinians claim the gravitational redshift factor
1+V/c^2 confirmed experimentally by Pound and Rebka proves
GRAVITATIONAL TIME DILATION, not VARIABLE SPEED OF LIGHT:
http://fora.tv/2008/02/21/Ian_Morison_on_Einstein_s_Relativity_in_Action
The problem is not with Einsteinians: they claim anything. The problem
is with Einstein zombie world that, no matter what Einsteinians claim,
is just singing with abandon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PkLLXhONvQ
http://www.bnl.gov/community/Tours/EinsteinPics/Einsteine.jpg
http://www.haverford.edu/physics-astro/songs/divine.htm
http://www.physicstoday.org/vol-58/iss-7/images/devine_einstein.mp3
Pentcho Valev
pva...@yahoo.com