Re: LHC restarts and you're still here to read about it.
Y.Porat
> A number of people on this newsgroup have bet their personal and
> scientific integrity that
> - the LHC will never circulate protons
> - the LHC will circulate protons and cause the immediate end to the
> world
>
> Now, since protons are circulating and the world is still here, I
> wonder who is willing to step forward and say, "Whoops."
----------------
i dont know what is that big celebration of
PD and alike
the purpose of LHC
was not just to run Protons
it was among the others
TO FIND THE HIGGES BOSONS!!
just dont forget it and dont make other to forget it !!
2
my better suggestion is to find there
some unknown yet physical entity
THAT MOVES NATURALLY IN A CLOSED CIRCLE OR A PART OF A CIRCLE !!
iow
it moves in a way that was not explained
or cannot be explained by the current theory !!
that might open
a new era in physics
3
i heared some idiot saying that
'if there was such a thing
it should be noticed long ago..''
end of quote .(:-)
(monkeys in the jungle noticed long ago
that there are bananas of the tries
but they were not very much interested
in thunders and lightnings
because they were not tasty
and were not ON THEIR AGENDA ...!!!
ATB
Y.Porat
--------------------------
PD
> On Nov 23, 9:12 pm, PD <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > A number of people on this newsgroup have bet their personal and
> > scientific integrity that
> > - the LHC will never circulate protons
> > - the LHC will circulate protons and cause the immediate end to the
> > world
>
> > Now, since protons are circulating and the world is still here, I
> > wonder who is willing to step forward and say, "Whoops."
>
> ----------------
> i dont know what is that big celebration of
> PD and alike
>
> the purpose of LHC
> was not just to run Protons
> it was among the others
>
> TO FIND THE HIGGES BOSONS!!
Among a bunch of other things, yes.
Of course, it will take a bit of running to get the statistical sample
needed. You don't make a visible Higgs boson in the first few hundred
collisions, you know.
> just dont forget it and dont make other to forget it !!
> 2
> my better suggestion is to find there
>
> some unknown yet physical entity
> THAT MOVES NATURALLY IN A CLOSED CIRCLE OR A PART OF A CIRCLE !!
What mass? What radius? What is the experimental signature of this
motion?
Y.Porat
no mass no radius as a first step!!
just some circular movement
as a beginning !!!
so it is the simplest and cheapest thing to do !!
ie
just to notice it qualitatively !!
later we (they) can go on in investigating
if it can be explained or not by the current
theory
ATB
Y.Porat
--------------------------
PD
Circular movement with no radius.
Hmmm...
> so it is the simplest and cheapest thing to do !!
> ie
> just to notice it qualitatively !!
How do you look for it if you have no idea what radius of motion to
look for?
Y.Porat
let me try as a start:
since i guess that the most basic Circlon
might be one of the tiniest mass possible
and it moves in a magnetic field ( right ??)
i would start to look on cases
in which the radius of curvature
**is very big **
ie quite close to a straight line
but still not a straight straight !!
ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------
Raymond Yohros
> i dont know what is that big celebration of
> PD and alike
>
> the purpose of LHC
> was not just to run Protons
> it was among the others
>
> TO FIND THE HIGGES BOSONS!!
>
if you build it, they will come . . .
PD
How big?
Igor
> my better suggestion is to find there
>
> some unknown yet physical entity
> THAT MOVES NATURALLY IN A CLOSED CIRCLE
What happens if they discover that it moves in an open circle?
Y.Porat
how big is for later
first the qualitative finding
now
folowing yur Questions PD
another idea and suggestion
comes to my mind:
since the Circlon (acording to my surrestin)
canmove from the biggest to the smallest
radius
(untill it collides with another one )
they might find as well
**unknown particles or clasters of particles
THAT MOVE IN A RADIUS THAT IS SMALLER THAN EXPECTED !!!
ie tofolow sone known particle
and notice if itmoved in a radius SMALLER
than expected !!
why ??!!
because in that case we could get
a known Particle that was **acted by those
Circlons !!!*
ie
it is an INDIRECT INDICATION
Y.Porat
-------------
sorry i pressed accidentally a wrong key
so let me copy the last one and goon withit:
---------------------------
> how big is for later
> first the qualitative finding
> now
> folowing yur Questions PD
(you know that by discusion with someone else you might
develop even your own primary thinking.
until now no one ever bothered to open a discussion about it
so thank you PD for your questions !!)
----
so i have another idea and suggestion
> comes to my mind:
> since the Circlon (acording to my surrestin)
> can move from the biggest to the smallest
> radius
> (untill it collides with another one )
>
so
they might find as well
> **unknown particles or coasters of particles
> THAT MOVE IN A RADIUS THAT IS SMALLER THAN EXPECTED !!!
> it needs
to follow some known particle
> and notice if it moved in a radius SMALLER
> than expected !!
> why ??!!
> because in that case we could get
> a *known Particle* that was **acted by those
> Circlons !!!*
> ie
> it is an INDIRECT INDICATION
(continued the last post)
itIS AN ** INDIRECT INDICATION
of a knwon particle that was acted by those Circlons !!..:
iow
we dont see there the Circlons themselves !!
**but we see their action on a known particle !!!**
the Circlons were 'pressing it inwards '!!
by hitting them from 'outside ' their
ordinary radius path
hope i made myself clear
if not i will try again to explain it
ATB
Y.Porat
--------------------
-------------------
Y.Porat
--------------
an open circle is actually a prat
of a circle
you miht think that you are jolikng
but not !!
if the Circlon is colliding with otheres like itself
it can stop or change its
movement at any point of its
circular way---
--and start a new circular way way!!
and that is one of thereasons
why that attarction agent
never gets lost in the endless univers
so
Igor
in case you tried to mock me
you just helped me to clarify another feature of my Circlon
suggestions
and thank you for that ! !(:-)
Y.P
-----------------------
Y.P
-----------------------
PD
How are people supposed to look for it if they don't know a radius of
the circular orbit?
> folowing yur Questions PD
> another idea and suggestion
> comes to my mind:
> since the Circlon (acording to my surrestin)
> canmove from the biggest to the smallest
> radius
> (untill it collides with another one )
> they might find as well
> **unknown particles or clasters of particles
> THAT MOVE IN A RADIUS THAT IS SMALLER THAN EXPECTED !!!
> ie tofolow sone known particle
> and notice if itmoved in a radius SMALLER
> than expected !!
How small?
Aleph
<64acfd79-18fb-4f88...@r31g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, Y.Porat
sat down and wrote the following words of wisdom:
> an open circle is actually a prat
> of a circle
> you miht think that you are jolikng
> but not !!
> if the Circlon is colliding with otheres like itself
> it can stop or change its
> movement at any point of its
> circular way---
> --and start a new circular way way!!
> and that is one of thereasons
> why that attarction agent
> never gets lost in the endless univers
> so
> Igor
> in case you tried to mock me
> you just helped me to clarify another feature of my Circlon
> suggestions
> and thank you for that ! !(:-)
> Y.P
You should be impressed that he managed to mock you so comprehensively...
--
Aleph
This message was posted to usenet so please reply that way. Emails to
this account are very likely to be ignored.
Y.Porat
--------------------
i said:
9it seems that you dont know how pioneering science is done ....
i said
take a known particle with known properties
that answers your first question
insinuating that myfirst suggestion
has toomany unknowns
by chosing to follow a known particle
we reduce most of the unknowns
2
next step is to calculate
what should be its radial movement
in thespecific magnetic field that is there
at that specific point
3
to measure the actual radius of movement
of that particle after the big collision
that happense there
to see if the real mesured radious
is something smaller than calculated
at this satge it does not matter
HOW MUCH smaller it will be
**the very finding that it is smaller
9no matter how much)
is an important discovery***
because
it was predicted by some new theory
that is based on a new book
about a newmodel of the Atom and nuc !!
4
and now i have even a rational behind it
based on my generalmodel:
if inside most of matter there is that
unknown creature that i called Circlon
and i suggested that it moves *naturally*
in a closed or curved path
and i claim that this is the real
ATTRACTION FORCE MAKER ...
than by busting' protons
some or many of those circlons
should be abundantly there after that
crush of protons
if so
a lot of those Corclons will be present
at that environment !
now we have to keep in mind thatthose
circlons are moving in allpossible radi
from the smallest to thebiggest radious
in that case
a lot of them will bethere moving
in a smaller radious than our chosed particle (say one of the
combusted protons there )
now
that unbasted proton will move away
but it will be in an envirinment of
a lot of Circlons moving in small radi
THAT WILL GOON ANDON HITTING THAT PROTON
iow
the tested proton will be in an enviribment
saturated by circlons that move
in small radi
thjat will cause our tested proton to be
'squeezed inward by that pressing inward
circlons environment
at this satge
nomatter how much it will be forcing that proton toshorten its radi
**the very fact that it was predicted explained
and measured qualitatively ***--
it i s good enough as an important interesting start !!!
and after that start more
quantitative predictions might
pioneering science
does not start with exact
quantitative predictions
as far as i remember
it was never like that
it satrts always by qualitative
OBSERVATIONS !!
it is not mathematics it is pioneering physics !!
mathematics( that most of you were born on it ) comes only later !!
it seems that
you are used to eat only prepared food
you never cooked your food yourself ...
so may be start cooking
or helping (as you started )
to cook some new food ?? (:-)
ATB
Y.Porat
------------------------
Y.Porat
---------------------
???????
----------------
PD
Oh, but I do.
And it's not quite the way you think it's done.
>
> i said
> take a known particle with known properties
> that answers your first question
OK, do it.
> insinuating that myfirst suggestion
> has toomany unknowns
> by chosing to follow a known particle
> we reduce most of the unknowns
OK, do it.
> 2
> next step is to calculate
> what should be its radial movement
> in thespecific magnetic field that is there
> at that specific point
Yes, do that. Surely you can write an equation that writes the radius
in terms of the field.
> 3
> to measure the actual radius of movement
> of that particle after the big collision
> that happense there
> to see if the real mesured radious
> is something smaller than calculated
> at this satge it does not matter
> HOW MUCH smaller it will be
Oh yes it does. Because you have to design the instrument to be
sensitive to the difference. If it is only 0.00001% smaller, then the
instrument may not be precise enough to measure it. That's why it's
important for you to CALCULATE how much smaller it will be, so that
the instrument can be tuned to be sensitive to it.
That's not true.
> it is not mathematics it is pioneering physics !!
> mathematics( that most of you were born on it ) comes only later !!
That's not true, Porat. You apparently don't know how pioneering
science is done.
> it seems that
Raymond Yohros
its from the fields of dreams, a baseball movie
never mind if you know
BURT
Black holes have been theoretically disproven. That people think they
are seeing them is the problem. They need to be shown that they are
not.
Mitch Raemsch
Raymond Yohros
black holes appear in blackboards and theory long before anyone
was able to see one. if you dont think they exist then i suggest
that you start chatting somewhere else.
waldofj
actually it's from the inventor of the vibrator
Y.Porat
please tell me about pioneering science (:-)
and add to it
some of your pioneering achievements in physics ....(:-)
2
you kepp on telling me
'do it'
why didnt you tell me that cleaver
ingenious suggestion ('DO IT')
** right from the beginning ??!
**if it was clear to you
AND EVERY ONE that i personally
cant do it ??
because you wanted to 'milk ' from me some ideas ???
and then use it for your friends ??.
or may be yourself ??.
you must be joking
csn a single pseron do it??
the cal is for the LHC peole to
think about it
examine it
discuss it
and then do it
while you do your best to fail it
probably jealousy !!!
3
now about the expected radius path of some Protons there
again you show your jelousy
and lack of creative imagination
such acted by 'Circlon; protons
(after other protons colllition and explosion )
can be dispersed in various directions
including the more or less axial
each direction and its specific
radious of movement
some of the short some of them bigger radius !!
in the more longitudinal directin of the accelerator
and bedides
do you ahve any idea
what will be the radius of movement
of any of those protons??
and what might be the change in that
radius of curvature ??
or may be you just mumbling ??
and jsust to remind every body
my initial suggestion is
JUST TO NOTICE CURVED MOTION OF PARTICLES
and may be just record it
what can be the objection of
jealous peole for such a simple start ??
while no Higgs boson is seen
at the horizon ??!!
Y.Porat
------------------------
Raymond Yohros
>
> actually it's from the inventor of the vibrator
>
not funny
anyway, higgs bosons will appear
very soon.
Aleph
b5b1-96f...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Y.Porat sat down and babbled
the following, barely coherent nonsense:
>
> please tell me about pioneering science (:-)
Hmm. He did. You seem to have missed it. I wonder why that is.
> and add to it
> some of your pioneering achievements in physics ....(:-)
Ha. Where are yours first PoohRat?
<snip babble>
No Nazi Gangster Crook reference? Are your meds working?
Raymond Yohros
> On Nov 24, 4:50 am, "Y.Porat" <y.y.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 9:12 pm, PD <thedraperfam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > A number of people on this newsgroup have bet their personal and
> > > scientific integrity that
> > > - the LHC will never circulate protons
> > > - the LHC will circulate protons and cause the immediate end to the
> > > world
>
> > > Now, since protons are circulating and the world is still here, I
> > > wonder who is willing to step forward and say, "Whoops."
>
> > ----------------
> > i dont know what is that big celebration of
> > PD and alike
>
> > the purpose of LHC
> > was not just to run Protons
> > it was among the others
>
> > TO FIND THE HIGGES BOSONS!!
>
> Among a bunch of other things, yes.
>
> Of course, it will take a bit of running to get the statistical sample
> needed. You don't make a visible Higgs boson in the first few hundred
> collisions, you know.
>
are you aware on how many runs have they made?
timings and if they have try to make variable time intervals
between the streaming collitions?
r.y
Dr Ivan D. Reid
wrote in <2cd366a6-af73-4850...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>:
> are you aware on how many runs have they made?
> timings and if they have try to make variable time intervals
> between the streaming collitions?
Presuming you mean "collisions", AFAIA they are only sending one
bunch of protons per beam at the moment (rather than the 40 MHz stream
when running), they aren't often running beams in both directions at once,
and only that one day did they try to get the beams synchronised at the
crossing points. Now that Atlas, LHCb, ALICE and CMS have all seen
collisions they've gone back to development work. There's also been a
certain amount of downtime for cryo problems etc. We are seeing some
tracks, however -- beam halo, gas collisions, etc. -- as well as the
normal tens of Hz of cosmic tracks of course.
http://www.reformschoolrules.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/barbkskpcalm_1.jpg
--
Ivan Reid, School of Engineering & Design, _____________ CMS Collaboration,
Brunel University. Ivan.Reid@[brunel.ac.uk|cern.ch] Room 40-1-B12, CERN
KotPT -- "for stupidity above and beyond the call of duty".
Y.Porat
> On Thursday 26 November 2009 15:03, in <89d27daa-6191-4556-
> the following, barely coherent nonsense:
>
>
>
> > please tell me about pioneering science (:-)
>
> Hmm. He did. You seem to have missed it. I wonder why that is.
>
> > and add to it
> > some of your pioneering achievements in physics ....(:-)
>
> Ha. Where are yours first PoohRat?
>
> <snip babble>
>
> No Nazi Gangster Crook reference? Are your meds working?
>
> --
> Aleph
>
> This message was posted to usenet so please reply that way. Emails to
> this account are very likely to be ignored.
---------------
may i start suspecting that
Aleph and PD are the same ?? (:-)
the psychopath gangster Aleph started to speak in * behalf of
** PD .....
Y.P
----------------------------
Aleph
@m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, sent to sci.physics on Thu, 26 Nov 2009
18:59:04 -0800 (PST), Y.Porat <y.y....@gmail.com> imparted these words
of wisdom:
>
> ---------------
> may i start suspecting that
> Aleph and PD are the same ?? (:-)
>
> the psychopath gangster Aleph started to speak in * behalf of
> ** PD .....
>
Suspect away, retard.
Like all your other ideas it is nonsense. What does that say about your
theories?
--
Aleph
This article was posted to USENET, please reply in that manner. Emails
to this account will be ignored.
Y.Porat
> In article <99342475-0334-49f9-9cca-ec3260298a69
> @m3g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>, sent to sci.physics on Thu, 26 Nov 2009
> of wisdom:
>
>
>
> > ---------------
> > may i start suspecting that
> > Aleph and PD are the same ?? (:-)
>
> > the psychopath gangster Aleph started to speak in * behalf of
> > ** PD .....
>
> Suspect away, retard.
>
> Like all your other ideas it is nonsense. What does that say about your
> theories?
>
> --
> Aleph
>
> This article was posted to USENET, please reply in that manner. Emails
> to this account will be ignored.
so tell us soemthig about PD s innovations in
pioneering science (:-)
that you mentioned above
Y.P
-------------------
Aleph
<989ac87c-4072-436f...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, Y.Porat
>
> so tell us soemthig about PD s innovations in
> pioneering science (:-)
> that you mentioned above
Interesting response PoohRat.
If I list some, you will continue to accuse me of being PD, which I am not.
Tell you what, why dont you google him and see what *you* can find out. At
least that way you would be able to demonstrate at least a passing ability
to research. Maybe start with his USENET posting history and see what you
can learn.
Are you able to do that?
PD
At LHC? They haven't even started physics running yet.
Raymond Yohros
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:30:03 -0800 (PST), Raymond Yohros <b...@birdband.net>
>
> > are you aware on how many runs have they made?
> > timings and if they have try to make variable time intervals
> > between the streaming collitions?
>
> Presuming you mean "collisions", AFAIA they are only sending one
> bunch of protons per beam at the moment (rather than the 40 MHz stream
> when running), they aren't often running beams in both directions at once,
> and only that one day did they try to get the beams synchronised at the
> crossing points. Now that Atlas, LHCb, ALICE and CMS have all seen
> collisions they've gone back to development work. There's also been a
> certain amount of downtime for cryo problems etc. We are seeing some
> tracks, however -- beam halo, gas collisions, etc. -- as well as the
> normal tens of Hz of cosmic tracks of course.
>
i guess i'm a bit ahead of myself!
it should take some time and detail examination
on operation before all the excitement begins!
regards
r.y
Dr Ivan D. Reid
Yes, it'll take time but they are doing well. There's some sort
of party planned for December 3rd, and that was always the day they had
officially marked for "first collisions", so I'm told. I believe they
want to have some regular runs before CERN shuts for the Christmas break
on the 19th, and that they want to have even done some collisions at
higher than injection energies by then. Beyond that, I'm a lowly
foot-soldier several layers down from command level.
Y.Porat
------------------
in your ass!!
----------------
Y.Porat
what is the probability
for them to 'appear'
that will be reasonable for you ??
just say it beforehand !!
Y.P
----------------------------
Aleph
9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>, sent to sci.physics on Sat, 28 Nov 2009
06:57:23 -0800 (PST), Y.Porat <y.y....@gmail.com> imparted these words
of wisdom:
>
> > <big snippage>
> > not funny
> >
> > anyway, higgs bosons will appear
> > very soon.
>
> ------------------
> in your ass!!
> ----------------
Porat, try to calm down. No one wants to hear about your sex fantasies
here.
Raymond Yohros
> > ------------------
> > in your ass!!
> > ----------------
>
> what is the probability
> for them to 'appear'
> that will be reasonable for you ??
>
> just say it beforehand !!
>
whats with the obsenity?
this it the father of all ciclotrons, there's no need
to ever go bigger than this. operational procedure
is alot of hard work and the key to success and it
will take a long time before you can even think of the big price
appearing on detectors.
Raymond Yohros
whats with the obsenity?
this it the father of all cyclotrons, there's no need
to ever go bigger than this. operational procedure
is alot of hard work and the key to success and it
will take a long time before you can even think of the big prize
appearing on detectors.
Y.Porat
-----------------
i willtell you waht will bem the probability of finding the Higgs
it will be one to 40 Billion ...
and by that probability
you will certainly find your mother in law there !!
Higgs Bosons are deal by arrival!!
it is hundreds times bigger than the Proton
and it i stupidity and moronic to expect that such a violent
collision
something bigger than the Proton will be created
**as a normal every day life creature **
if people dont understand it
dont let hem waist the money of the tax payer !!
on the other hand
i started to study th egata that Gr Rid showed above
abou the different lpan of experiments
so from the first glace
( or course i new nothing about those detailes before
but i can tell you right now
what i gathered therer
is good enough to me that it fits nicely
to my suggetions that i gave
in my thred:
'A suggestion for the LHC project ' !!
they use a lot of protons in each shot
they accelerate them one against the other
so
some of them will collide and explode
and spread my suggested "Circlons'
other (protons !!) will pass next to it
and curve their path stronger than any
current theory is able to explain !!
see that above mentioned thread of mine
ATB
Y.Porat
-----------------------------
Aleph
bd4a-42e...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, Y.Porat sat down and wrote
> i willtell you waht will bem the probability of finding the Higgs
> it will be one to 40 Billion ...
So you say 1 collison in 40,000,000,000 should find a Higgs boson? Is that
correct?
<snip gibberish>