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Jun 4, 2003, 7:04:53 PM6/4/03

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Similar to the Calphysics site, here is Puthoff's site:

It has an interesting new article on the Polarized Vacuum, framed in

terms of the dielectric of space. Cool stuff.

Just as a personal speculation-- what if you could polarize the

vacuum? Could you create a "bubble" in the vacuum? Some sort of

discontinuity in spacetime?

Quantum Supercavitation -- an interesting fantasy, don't you think?

Just like how Russian engineers figured out how to make their Sqval

torpedo move underwater at speeds much faster than water would

ordinarily allow. The supercavitation approach has the bulk of the

torpedo fuselage surrounded by a vapor bubble having vapor pressure

greater than the surrounding water pressure.

Or here's another idea I just thought of a second ago. Consider

something like a ramjet. The ramjet takes in air at high speed,

resulting in a mach-wall or pressure wall that compresses injected

fuel to allow efficient combustion. How about an analagous situation

where the your fast-moving spacecraft then concentrates the oncoming

vacuum, so as to create a zone of elevated vacuum pressure which

facilitates muon-catalyzed fusion. In the "higher vacuum pressure"

zone, the muon would be sufficiently stabilized so as to be able to

catalyze the fusion of diatomic hydrogen.

Jun 6, 2003, 3:21:12 AM6/6/03

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mano...@yahoo.com (sanman) wrote in message news:<f144e162.03060...@posting.google.com>...

Sounds eerily related to Schwarz's formulation of sonoluminescence.

It all comes back to Casimir, where alot of beautiful-strange

possibilities arise. Particularly the "ramjet" idea. There was this

guy I read a few years back who worked on the concept of a "warp

drive" in terms of forming a negative energy density through casimir

effects...

Jun 6, 2003, 9:58:56 AM6/6/03

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gala...@excite.com (galathaea) writes:

> It all comes back to Casimir, where alot of beautiful-strange

> possibilities arise. Particularly the "ramjet" idea. There was this guy

> I read a few years back who worked on the concept of a "warp drive" in

> terms of forming a negative energy density through casimir effects...

The "Casimir effect" is simply the macroscopic analog of the van der Waals

force between molecules; it is caused by the interaction between the

fluctuating net electric dipole moments of two macroscopic chunks of matter.

If one stops making the unphysical assumption of two perfectly conducting,

infinitely thin plates with no upper cutoff frequency to their coupling

to the electromagnetic field, and instead includes corrections for the

finite size of atoms and for a realistic dispersion relationship for

macroscopic matter, one finds that the maximum possible "Casimir energy

density" must be many orders of magnitude less than the mass-energy of the

matter generating the "Casimir effect;" hence, the total energy of the

matter must necessarily still be positive. Achieving "negative energy"

via the "Casimir effect" is not physically possible.

-- Gordon D. Pusch

perl -e '$_ = "gdpusch\@NO.xnet.SPAM.com\n"; s/NO\.//; s/SPAM\.//; print;'

Jun 8, 2003, 4:50:59 AM6/8/03

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gdp...@NO.xnet.SPAM.com (Gordon D. Pusch) wrote in message news:<gi3cin2...@pusch.xnet.com>...

I should correct the attribution I made, which is of course

Schwinger's ideas on sonoluminescence.

Now, I am interested in such an analysis. I did not believe that such

an idea was technically feasible currently because of more mundane

issues (like the matter could not hold itself together under such

Casimir forces or the sizes required would make it impossible to use

effectively in the manner described). But I always figured that it

would still be possible to produce such an effect eventually in

different, laboratory circumstances.

Do you perhaps have a link to some sources showing such "no go "

calculations? The best source I have on Casimir and related is "The

Quantum Vacuum: An Introduction to Quantum Electrodynamics" by Peter

W. Milonni, which has a lot of nice historical information as well.

But it doesn't mention any sources that claim what you state (though

it doesn't really explore the possibility either).

Jun 8, 2003, 2:29:17 PM6/8/03

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"galathaea" <gala...@excite.com> wrote in message

news:b22ffac3.03060...@posting.google.com...

news:b22ffac3.03060...@posting.google.com...

I think you need to read Milonni's book more thoroughly. I do seem to

recall Milonni describing something very similar to what Gordon is

describing. While Milonni is trying to make a convincing argument for the

existence of zero-point energy, etc., he does present the alternative

explanations.

FrediFizzx

Jun 8, 2003, 3:04:01 PM6/8/03

to

> The "Casimir effect" is simply the macroscopic analog of the van der Waals

> force between molecules; it is caused by the interaction between the

> fluctuating net electric dipole moments of two macroscopic chunks of matter.

> If one stops making the unphysical assumption of two perfectly conducting,

> infinitely thin plates with no upper cutoff frequency to their coupling

> to the electromagnetic field, and instead includes corrections for the

> finite size of atoms and for a realistic dispersion relationship for

> macroscopic matter, one finds that the maximum possible "Casimir energy

> density" must be many orders of magnitude less than the mass-energy of the

> matter generating the "Casimir effect;" hence, the total energy of the

> matter must necessarily still be positive. Achieving "negative energy"

> via the "Casimir effect" is not physically possible.

> force between molecules; it is caused by the interaction between the

> fluctuating net electric dipole moments of two macroscopic chunks of matter.

> If one stops making the unphysical assumption of two perfectly conducting,

> infinitely thin plates with no upper cutoff frequency to their coupling

> to the electromagnetic field, and instead includes corrections for the

> finite size of atoms and for a realistic dispersion relationship for

> macroscopic matter, one finds that the maximum possible "Casimir energy

> density" must be many orders of magnitude less than the mass-energy of the

> matter generating the "Casimir effect;" hence, the total energy of the

> matter must necessarily still be positive. Achieving "negative energy"

> via the "Casimir effect" is not physically possible.

Hi Gordon,

To me, a negative energy density amounts to "stilling the vacuum" --

ie. calming the myriad fluctuations in it. I was just thinking about

the analogy of a Cold Gas gun, which allows a projectile to be

accelerated to a higher muzzle-velocity than otherwise possible,

because of its use of cold gas. I'm wondering how one might strive to

locally cancel out or suppress the vacuum fluctuations in a localized

region of space. According to Sakharov, the vacuum likely does not

interact with itself, only with matter. I'd wonder if superconductive

ultracold matter would be useful.

Sometime back, I was reading about the proposed upcoming generation of

muon-colliders, which would accelerate muons into high-velocity

collisions with each other. I wonder if those high-energy collision

experiments won't eventually reveal some underlying structure to

leptons, including the electron.

Somehow the electron seems like it's the next missing link in the

chain that leads us towards deciphering the vacuum.

Jun 8, 2003, 11:31:45 PM6/8/03

to

"FrediFizzx" <fredi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bbvv9q$dqbta$1...@ID-185976.news.dfncis.de>...

> "galathaea" <gala...@excite.com> wrote in message

> news:b22ffac3.03060...@posting.google.com...

> | gdp...@NO.xnet.SPAM.com (Gordon D. Pusch) wrote in message

> news:<gi3cin2...@pusch.xnet.com>...

[...]

> | > The "Casimir effect" is simply the macroscopic analog of the van der

> Waals

> | > force between molecules; it is caused by the interaction between the

> | > fluctuating net electric dipole moments of two macroscopic chunks of

> matter.

> | > If one stops making the unphysical assumption of two perfectly

> conducting,

> | > infinitely thin plates with no upper cutoff frequency to their coupling

> | > to the electromagnetic field, and instead includes corrections for the

> | > finite size of atoms and for a realistic dispersion relationship for

> | > macroscopic matter, one finds that the maximum possible "Casimir energy

> | > density" must be many orders of magnitude less than the mass-energy of

> the

> | > matter generating the "Casimir effect;" hence, the total energy of the

> | > matter must necessarily still be positive. Achieving "negative energy"

> | > via the "Casimir effect" is not physically possible.

[...]

> | Now, I am interested in such an analysis. I did not believe that such

> | an idea was technically feasible currently because of more mundane

> | issues (like the matter could not hold itself together under such

> | Casimir forces or the sizes required would make it impossible to use

> | effectively in the manner described). But I always figured that it

> | would still be possible to produce such an effect eventually in

> | different, laboratory circumstances.

> |

> | Do you perhaps have a link to some sources showing such "no go "

> | calculations? The best source I have on Casimir and related is "The

> | Quantum Vacuum: An Introduction to Quantum Electrodynamics" by Peter

> | W. Milonni, which has a lot of nice historical information as well.

> | But it doesn't mention any sources that claim what you state (though

> | it doesn't really explore the possibility either).

>

> I think you need to read Milonni's book more thoroughly. I do seem to

> recall Milonni describing something very similar to what Gordon is

> describing. While Milonni is trying to make a convincing argument for the

> existence of zero-point energy, etc., he does present the alternative

> explanations.

> "galathaea" <gala...@excite.com> wrote in message

> news:b22ffac3.03060...@posting.google.com...

> | gdp...@NO.xnet.SPAM.com (Gordon D. Pusch) wrote in message

> news:<gi3cin2...@pusch.xnet.com>...

> | > The "Casimir effect" is simply the macroscopic analog of the van der

> Waals

> | > force between molecules; it is caused by the interaction between the

> | > fluctuating net electric dipole moments of two macroscopic chunks of

> matter.

> | > If one stops making the unphysical assumption of two perfectly

> conducting,

> | > infinitely thin plates with no upper cutoff frequency to their coupling

> | > to the electromagnetic field, and instead includes corrections for the

> | > finite size of atoms and for a realistic dispersion relationship for

> | > macroscopic matter, one finds that the maximum possible "Casimir energy

> | > density" must be many orders of magnitude less than the mass-energy of

> the

> | > matter generating the "Casimir effect;" hence, the total energy of the

> | > matter must necessarily still be positive. Achieving "negative energy"

> | > via the "Casimir effect" is not physically possible.

> | Now, I am interested in such an analysis. I did not believe that such

> | an idea was technically feasible currently because of more mundane

> | issues (like the matter could not hold itself together under such

> | Casimir forces or the sizes required would make it impossible to use

> | effectively in the manner described). But I always figured that it

> | would still be possible to produce such an effect eventually in

> | different, laboratory circumstances.

> |

> | Do you perhaps have a link to some sources showing such "no go "

> | calculations? The best source I have on Casimir and related is "The

> | Quantum Vacuum: An Introduction to Quantum Electrodynamics" by Peter

> | W. Milonni, which has a lot of nice historical information as well.

> | But it doesn't mention any sources that claim what you state (though

> | it doesn't really explore the possibility either).

>

> I think you need to read Milonni's book more thoroughly. I do seem to

> recall Milonni describing something very similar to what Gordon is

> describing. While Milonni is trying to make a convincing argument for the

> existence of zero-point energy, etc., he does present the alternative

> explanations.

I've read Milonni through about 3 times now, and I have referred many

times to specific sections when I was getting more comfortable with

the calculations (this was maybe 8 years ago though). I just relooked

over the appropriate sections, and although I find the many

expositions concerning zero-point field and its relation to the

Casimir effect (and the many interpretations possible) I still fail to

find any exposition on a "no go" theorem for some of the exotic

effects predicted from naive use of the Casimir results (in

particular, a no negative energy density theorem, which is the topic

being discussed). If you could suggest a section where such results

are calculated, or perhaps a different referrence for such a

calculation, I would very much appreciate it. A good deal of my

research concerns exotic effects proposed in science and the analysis

of such results by the scientific community, and I was for some time

quite interested in the Casimir effect's many controversial

possibilities and the more in depth analyses of these possibilities,

and although I've always felt there were severe physical difficulties,

Mr. Pusch has suggested that there are results specifically indicating

a "no go" and those are what I would like to review.

Jun 9, 2003, 2:27:47 AM6/9/03

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