On 5/7/2019 5:38 PM, xilog wrote:
> I will pass over your comment on Tarski since I lack a specific reference to the theorem of which you speak.
> As to Godel:
>
> On 07/05/2019 16:58, peteolcott wrote:
>>
>> As far as the 1931 Incompleteness Theorem goes most people are like a
>> fish out-of-water when we take away Gödel numbers and diagonalization.
>> They have only learned these things by rote and never truly understood
>> the actual underlying mathematical relations involved.
>>
>> Introduction to Mathematical logic Sixth edition Elliott Mendelson (2015)
>> 1.4 An Axiom System for the Propositional Calculus page 28
>> A wf C is said to be a consequence in S of a set Γ of wfs if and only if there is a
>> sequence B1, …, Bk of wfs such that C is Bk and, for each i, either Bi is an axiom
>> or Bi is in Γ, or Bi is a direct consequence by some rule of inference of some of
>> the preceding wfs in the sequence. Such a sequence is called a proof (or deduction)
>> of C from Γ. The members of Γ are called the hypotheses or premisses of the proof.
>> We use Γ ⊢ C as an abbreviation for “C is a consequence of Γ”...
>>
>> The first thing to know is that any "proof" that uses Gödel numbers and
>> diagonalization is not really a mathematical proof at all because it lacks:
>> [a sequence B1, …, Bk of wfs such that C is Bk] of inference steps. Instead
>> the Gödel numbers / diagonalization process leaps to the conclusion skipping
>> all of the intervening steps.
>
> This is incorrect.
>
> You must bear in mind the distinction between a strictly formal mathematical proof
> of the kind addressed by Mendelson and the normal standard of mathematical proof
> used in the development of mathematics and its publication in journals.
> Neither in mathematics in general nor in mathematical logic is it usual for mathematicians
> to prove their results formally, though it is held that a rigorous (but informal) proof,
> can be converted into a formal proof (at the cost of considerable additional labour).
> Mathematical logicians mainly reason _about_ formal systems rather than _in_ formal systems.
>
> Godel's incompleteness theorem is an informal proof about formal axiomatisations of
> arithmetic, which could be (and in fact has been) rendered fully formally.
> Such a formal rendering of Godel's incompleteness theorem would fully satisfy
> criteria similar to those given by Mendelson for the propositional calculus (though
> the system would be a predicate calculus, and somewhat more complicated).
> It would nevertheless still require the machinery of Godel numbering
> (or some equivalent method) in order to be able to talk about formal systems
> in a language which is strictly capable only of talking about numbers.
>
> The use of godel numbering is essential, and does not mark a departure from
> the notion of formal system described by Mendelson.
>
>> To see what is truly going on with the Incompleteness Theorem requires us
>> to recreate it without Gödel numbers or diagonalization.
>>
>> First incompleteness theorem
>> Any consistent formal system F within which a certain amount
>> of elementary arithmetic can be carried out is incomplete;
>> i.e., there are statements of the language of F which can
>> neither be proved nor disproved in F. (Raatikainen 2018)
>>
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/goedel-incompleteness/#Int
>>
>> The above English paragraph does sum up the essence of the conclusion
>> of the 1931 Incompleteness Theorem. The following logic sentence
>> does formalize the above English paragraph without Gödel numbers:
>> ∃F ∈ Formal_System ∃G ∈ Closed_WFF(F) (G ↔ ((F ⊬ G) ∧ (F ⊬ ¬G)))
>
> Not quite.
>
> Firstly, of course, there are undefined terms here, viz. "Formal_System" and "Closed_WFF".
> There is a difficulty in formalising the definition of these concepts in the language of
> arithmetic (which is the language in which Godel's theorem is to be understood), without
> using Godel numbers, because the only things which exist in that context are numbers.
Ah but we don't have to. Gödel's results apply to every formal system capable
of expressing arithmetic AND ABOVE. In other words they would apply equally
to a knowledge ontology of the sum total of all human knowledge.
In other words Gödel and Tarski "prove" that a complete and consistent
notion of truth itself is impossible.
All that we have to do to define a complete and consistent notion of
truth is to realize that truth itself is nothing more than a set of
mutually interlocking tautologies.
In logic, a tautology (from the Greek word ταυτολογία) is a formula or
assertion that is true in every possible interpretation.
How can tautologies possibly fail to hold?
If tautologies cannot possibly fail to hold, then Gödel and Tarski are WRONG !
This is the big picture grande scheme that unequivocally proves
that Tarski and Gödel are necessarily incorrect.