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Russia aping the U.S. (again)
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Byker
Aug 19, 2015, 9:20:09 PM8/19/15
to
Now they're playing catch-up with SpaceX
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian Space Agency Mulls New, Reusable Carrier Rocket
Vitaly Belousov
20.08.2015
Russia’s space agency Roscosmos is planning to construct a new reusable
launch vehicle to carry satellites into orbit at a lower cost, the Russian
Izvestia newspaper reports.
MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The new carrier rocket will have a winged first stage
that will be capable of returning back to the launch site after separating
from the expendable second stage.
The project draft has been created as part of Russia’s 2016-2025 space
program. According to Izestia, Russia could spend over 12 billion rubles
(around $180 million) on the creation of the reusable first stage before
2025.
The newspaper cites space experts as saying that satellite launches could
become much cheaper with the use of renewable launchers as they would allow
to save millions of dollars on engines installed on the first stage of the
rocket. The cost of the engines used on the current expendable launch
vehicles is $10-70 million.
Carrier rockets of the Russian Soyuz family of expendable launch systems are
the most frequently used in the world, according to the European Space
Agency (ESA). Soyuz rockets are currently the only launch vehicle
transporting people to the International Space Station (ISS).
The Proton-M is the largest carrier rocket in Russia's fleet of space launch
vehicles. The rocket has lifted dozens of Russian-made and foreign
satellites since it was first launched in 2001.
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150820/1025949973.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russian Space Agency Mulls New, Reusable Carrier Rocket
Vitaly Belousov
20.08.2015
Russia’s space agency Roscosmos is planning to construct a new reusable
launch vehicle to carry satellites into orbit at a lower cost, the Russian
Izvestia newspaper reports.
MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The new carrier rocket will have a winged first stage
that will be capable of returning back to the launch site after separating
from the expendable second stage.
The project draft has been created as part of Russia’s 2016-2025 space
program. According to Izestia, Russia could spend over 12 billion rubles
(around $180 million) on the creation of the reusable first stage before
2025.
The newspaper cites space experts as saying that satellite launches could
become much cheaper with the use of renewable launchers as they would allow
to save millions of dollars on engines installed on the first stage of the
rocket. The cost of the engines used on the current expendable launch
vehicles is $10-70 million.
Carrier rockets of the Russian Soyuz family of expendable launch systems are
the most frequently used in the world, according to the European Space
Agency (ESA). Soyuz rockets are currently the only launch vehicle
transporting people to the International Space Station (ISS).
The Proton-M is the largest carrier rocket in Russia's fleet of space launch
vehicles. The rocket has lifted dozens of Russian-made and foreign
satellites since it was first launched in 2001.
http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150820/1025949973.html
jack595
Aug 19, 2015, 11:17:18 PM8/19/15
to
In article <fZKdnQoS76_VtkjI...@earthlink.com>, Byker says...
One question: where is this thing supposed to land? Russia is dry land for 150
degrees.
degrees.
dott.Piergiorgio
Aug 20, 2015, 1:38:56 AM8/20/15
to
Il 20/08/2015 05:17, jack595 ha scritto:
> In article <fZKdnQoS76_VtkjI...@earthlink.com>, Byker says...
>>
>> Now they're playing catch-up with SpaceX
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Russian Space Agency Mulls New, Reusable Carrier Rocket
>>
>> Vitaly Belousov
>> 20.08.2015
>>
>> Russiaâ s space agency Roscosmos is planning to construct a new reusable
> In article <fZKdnQoS76_VtkjI...@earthlink.com>, Byker says...
>>
>> Now they're playing catch-up with SpaceX
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Russian Space Agency Mulls New, Reusable Carrier Rocket
>>
>> Vitaly Belousov
>> 20.08.2015
>>
>> launch vehicle to carry satellites into orbit at a lower cost, the Russian
>> Izvestia newspaper reports.
>>
>> MOSCOW (Sputnik) â The new carrier rocket will have a winged first stage
>> Izvestia newspaper reports.
>>
>> that will be capable of returning back to the launch site after separating
>>from the expendable second stage.
>>
>> The project draft has been created as part of Russiaâ s 2016-2025 space
>>from the expendable second stage.
>>
>> program. According to Izestia, Russia could spend over 12 billion rubles
>> (around $180 million) on the creation of the reusable first stage before
>> 2025.
>>
>> The newspaper cites space experts as saying that satellite launches could
>> become much cheaper with the use of renewable launchers as they would allow
>> to save millions of dollars on engines installed on the first stage of the
>> rocket. The cost of the engines used on the current expendable launch
>> vehicles is $10-70 million.
>>
>> Carrier rockets of the Russian Soyuz family of expendable launch systems are
>> the most frequently used in the world, according to the European Space
>> Agency (ESA). Soyuz rockets are currently the only launch vehicle
>> transporting people to the International Space Station (ISS).
>>
>> The Proton-M is the largest carrier rocket in Russia's fleet of space launch
>> vehicles. The rocket has lifted dozens of Russian-made and foreign
>> satellites since it was first launched in 2001.
>>
>> http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150820/1025949973.html
>>
>
> One question: where is this thing supposed to land? Russia is dry land for 150
> degrees.
sir, you're surely aware that Russians (back then, Soviets) was the
>> (around $180 million) on the creation of the reusable first stage before
>> 2025.
>>
>> The newspaper cites space experts as saying that satellite launches could
>> become much cheaper with the use of renewable launchers as they would allow
>> to save millions of dollars on engines installed on the first stage of the
>> rocket. The cost of the engines used on the current expendable launch
>> vehicles is $10-70 million.
>>
>> Carrier rockets of the Russian Soyuz family of expendable launch systems are
>> the most frequently used in the world, according to the European Space
>> Agency (ESA). Soyuz rockets are currently the only launch vehicle
>> transporting people to the International Space Station (ISS).
>>
>> The Proton-M is the largest carrier rocket in Russia's fleet of space launch
>> vehicles. The rocket has lifted dozens of Russian-made and foreign
>> satellites since it was first launched in 2001.
>>
>> http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150820/1025949973.html
>>
>
> One question: where is this thing supposed to land? Russia is dry land for 150
> degrees.
first to land people from orbit...
for US people unaware of what happens and happened outside CONUS:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vostok_1#Reentry_and_landing
followed by more than one hundred landings with the same (very proven)
scheme.
Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
jack595
Aug 20, 2015, 4:47:12 AM8/20/15
to
In article <a8sata5l97r7lq9i9...@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall says...
>Uh, the point of flyback boosters is that they land on dry land...
>
No, that is precisely what the current(private) US system is not doing. Also,
what little recovery has been done in the past by US launches have been at sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_ocean_booster_landing_tests
>
No, that is precisely what the current(private) US system is not doing. Also,
what little recovery has been done in the past by US launches have been at sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_ocean_booster_landing_tests
Andrew Swallow
Aug 20, 2015, 6:43:09 AM8/20/15
to
On 20/08/2015 09:46, jack595 wrote:
> In article <a8sata5l97r7lq9i9...@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall says...
>>
>> jack595 <jack595...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <fZKdnQoS76_VtkjI...@earthlink.com>, Byker says...
>>>>
>>>> Now they're playing catch-up with SpaceX
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Russian Space Agency Mulls New, Reusable Carrier Rocket
>>>>
>>>> Vitaly Belousov
>>>> 20.08.2015
>>>>
>>>> Russia’s space agency Roscosmos is planning to construct a new reusable
> In article <a8sata5l97r7lq9i9...@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall says...
>>
>> jack595 <jack595...@newsguy.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <fZKdnQoS76_VtkjI...@earthlink.com>, Byker says...
>>>>
>>>> Now they're playing catch-up with SpaceX
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Russian Space Agency Mulls New, Reusable Carrier Rocket
>>>>
>>>> Vitaly Belousov
>>>> 20.08.2015
>>>>
>>>> launch vehicle to carry satellites into orbit at a lower cost, the Russian
>>>> Izvestia newspaper reports.
>>>>
>>>> MOSCOW (Sputnik) – The new carrier rocket will have a winged first stage
>>>> Izvestia newspaper reports.
>>>>
>>>> that will be capable of returning back to the launch site after separating
>>> >from the expendable second stage.
>>>>
>>>> The project draft has been created as part of Russia’s 2016-2025 space
>>> >from the expendable second stage.
>>>>
>>>> program. According to Izestia, Russia could spend over 12 billion rubles
>>>> (around $180 million) on the creation of the reusable first stage before
>>>> 2025.
>>>>
>>>> The newspaper cites space experts as saying that satellite launches could
>>>> become much cheaper with the use of renewable launchers as they would allow
>>>> to save millions of dollars on engines installed on the first stage of the
>>>> rocket. The cost of the engines used on the current expendable launch
>>>> vehicles is $10-70 million.
>>>>
>>>> Carrier rockets of the Russian Soyuz family of expendable launch systems are
>>>> the most frequently used in the world, according to the European Space
>>>> Agency (ESA). Soyuz rockets are currently the only launch vehicle
>>>> transporting people to the International Space Station (ISS).
>>>>
>>>> The Proton-M is the largest carrier rocket in Russia's fleet of space launch
>>>> vehicles. The rocket has lifted dozens of Russian-made and foreign
>>>> satellites since it was first launched in 2001.
>>>>
>>>> http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150820/1025949973.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> One question: where is this thing supposed to land? Russia is dry land for 150
>>> degrees.
>>>
>>
>> Uh, the point of flyback boosters is that they land on dry land...
>>
>
> No, that is precisely what the current(private) US system is not doing. Also,
> what little recovery has been done in the past by US launches have been at sea.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_ocean_booster_landing_tests
>
SpaceX is trying to land its first stages on a barge - 'dry land' at
>>>> (around $180 million) on the creation of the reusable first stage before
>>>> 2025.
>>>>
>>>> The newspaper cites space experts as saying that satellite launches could
>>>> become much cheaper with the use of renewable launchers as they would allow
>>>> to save millions of dollars on engines installed on the first stage of the
>>>> rocket. The cost of the engines used on the current expendable launch
>>>> vehicles is $10-70 million.
>>>>
>>>> Carrier rockets of the Russian Soyuz family of expendable launch systems are
>>>> the most frequently used in the world, according to the European Space
>>>> Agency (ESA). Soyuz rockets are currently the only launch vehicle
>>>> transporting people to the International Space Station (ISS).
>>>>
>>>> The Proton-M is the largest carrier rocket in Russia's fleet of space launch
>>>> vehicles. The rocket has lifted dozens of Russian-made and foreign
>>>> satellites since it was first launched in 2001.
>>>>
>>>> http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150820/1025949973.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> One question: where is this thing supposed to land? Russia is dry land for 150
>>> degrees.
>>>
>>
>> Uh, the point of flyback boosters is that they land on dry land...
>>
>
> No, that is precisely what the current(private) US system is not doing. Also,
> what little recovery has been done in the past by US launches have been at sea.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_ocean_booster_landing_tests
>
sea. It has been practising in the middle of Texas.
jonathan
Aug 20, 2015, 12:32:29 PM8/20/15
to
and parachute to the ground. So, technically, they
didn't set the record.
s
Byker
Aug 20, 2015, 4:14:58 PM8/20/15
to
"jack595" wrote in message news:mr446...@drn.newsguy.com...
the launch site is tentatively scheduled to occur on Falcon 9 Flight 21,
depending on the outcome of prior landing tests.The booster will carry the
Jason 3 satellite from NASA; after separation the booster will attempt a
return-to-launch-site trajectory. The launch and landing, taking place from
Vandenberg Air Force Base, was scheduled for August 8, 2015, however the
CRS-7 launch failure and investigation led to a postponing for 'no earlier
than September 2015'".
>
> No, that is precisely what the current(private) US system is not doing.
> Also, what little recovery has been done in the past by US launches have
> been at sea.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_ocean_booster_landing_tests
Try try again: "The first attempt to land the first stage of the Falcon 9 at
> No, that is precisely what the current(private) US system is not doing.
> Also, what little recovery has been done in the past by US launches have
> been at sea.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_ocean_booster_landing_tests
the launch site is tentatively scheduled to occur on Falcon 9 Flight 21,
depending on the outcome of prior landing tests.The booster will carry the
Jason 3 satellite from NASA; after separation the booster will attempt a
return-to-launch-site trajectory. The launch and landing, taking place from
Vandenberg Air Force Base, was scheduled for August 8, 2015, however the
CRS-7 launch failure and investigation led to a postponing for 'no earlier
than September 2015'".
Byker
Aug 20, 2015, 4:16:16 PM8/20/15
to
"Andrew Swallow" wrote in message
news:zsmdndcXrdGhMkjI...@giganews.com...
news:zsmdndcXrdGhMkjI...@giganews.com...
>
> SpaceX is trying to land its first stages on a barge - 'dry land' at sea
Maybe a surplus CVN would help...
> SpaceX is trying to land its first stages on a barge - 'dry land' at sea
jonathan
Aug 20, 2015, 6:14:28 PM8/20/15
to
On 8/19/2015 9:20 PM, Byker wrote:
> Now they're playing catch-up with SpaceX
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
I wonder how many of these announcements of
> Now they're playing catch-up with SpaceX
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
new programs never get past a power point
presentation? Most of them probably.
Russia copy the US? Nah
Incredible Soviet Rip-offs of Western Technologies (~the short-list)
http://io9.com/incredible-soviet-rip-offs-of-western-technologies-973280252
Andrew Swallow
Aug 20, 2015, 6:56:33 PM8/20/15
to
The Falcon 9 first stage hits the barge OK, we just need to stop it
falling over.
Andrew Swallow
Aug 21, 2015, 10:26:09 AM8/21/15
to
On 21/08/2015 02:44, Fred J. McCall wrote:
> They're trying to land their first stages on a barge UNTIL THEY GET
> THE HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE DEVELOPED. They're using a barge because
> when it goes wrong they're not blowing up a launch pad. Go read up on
> their development plan. The current attempts are NOT 'flyback'. Once
> they have the landing worked out is when they'll start doing 'flyback'
> and it will be a Return To Launch system that will land on the pad it
> took off from.
>
> What they're doing now is a development program. Here is their actual
> plan:
>
> http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/04/rockets-return-home-spacex-pushing-boundaries/
>
> "The ambitious plans for creating an advanced flyback booster-style
> vehicle were unveiled by SpaceX founder Elon Musk back in September of
> 2011, featuring first and second stages that would fly back to the
> launch site under their own power – something no other aerospace
> company has achieved."
>
>
SpaceX is going in for incremental development. Full flyback is several
years away. Landing on a barge is next flight.
> THE HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE DEVELOPED. They're using a barge because
> when it goes wrong they're not blowing up a launch pad. Go read up on
> their development plan. The current attempts are NOT 'flyback'. Once
> they have the landing worked out is when they'll start doing 'flyback'
> and it will be a Return To Launch system that will land on the pad it
> took off from.
>
> What they're doing now is a development program. Here is their actual
> plan:
>
> http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/04/rockets-return-home-spacex-pushing-boundaries/
>
> "The ambitious plans for creating an advanced flyback booster-style
> vehicle were unveiled by SpaceX founder Elon Musk back in September of
> 2011, featuring first and second stages that would fly back to the
> launch site under their own power – something no other aerospace
> company has achieved."
>
>
SpaceX is going in for incremental development. Full flyback is several
years away. Landing on a barge is next flight.
jonathan
Aug 21, 2015, 11:44:02 AM8/21/15
to
On 8/21/2015 11:11 AM, Fred J. McCall wrote:
>
> Landing on a barge is DEVELOPMENTAL TESTING, not a goal.
>
NO, (to use a Fred-ism) it's a goal of the developmental testing!
Just so you know Fred, this is what's called being
argumentative.
>
> Landing on a barge is DEVELOPMENTAL TESTING, not a goal.
>
NO, (to use a Fred-ism) it's a goal of the developmental testing!
Just so you know Fred, this is what's called being
argumentative.
Andrew Swallow
Aug 21, 2015, 2:04:14 PM8/21/15
to
> Landing on a barge is DEVELOPMENTAL TESTING, not a goal.
>
It is an operational flight. They are sending a real payload into space.
>
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Aug 22, 2015, 11:08:24 AM8/22/15
to
> don't get all worked up when it doesn't work. They expect a bunch of
> failures before they succeed.
>
> And this is where so many folks just don't get it. Failures are what
> you learn from and any time you're doing developmental testing you
> should expect and plan on a lot of failures. It's how you get it
> right...
>
fwed, you're the only one getting all worked up over it.
;-)
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