where does "dreadnought" come from
M21...@mwvm.mitre.org
From M21...@mwvm.mitre.org
Where does the word "dreadnought" come from? I know that it refers to
a large, heavily armed warship. Is the idea that such a ship has nought
to dread?
[mod note -- If I remember right, it comes from a motto for something that
had to do with the Royal Navy, something that went like "Fear nothing and
dread nought"
Steve]
ErikTrimble
From ErikTrimble <tri...@alleg.edu>
Actually, the usage of the word "dreadnought" as to mean a heavily armored
and armed ship or other vehicle (in the naval version, it has become
synonymous with "battleship") comes from the revolutionary HMS
Dreadnought, launched about 1905. The Dreadnought was a completely new
design in battleship - previous battleships had possessed a wide variety
of gun sizes and armor mix, and were not known to be very fast. The
Dreadnought was very well armored, quite fast (~25kts), and carried only
12 heavy (I think they were 12") main guns in addition to a few 4-pounders
for anti-destroyer use. The idea was that the use of all one caliber and
size weapon allowed for easy correction of fire - in previous designs,
spotting the difference between a 12" and 9" splash was very difficult, so
correcting salvos was a slow and error-prone proccess. With all one size,
the salvos could be rapidly trained on the target, and destroy it. Upon
its appearance, it made all current battleships obsolete and caused a
great stir. All further battleship designs are based on the Dreadnought
(though slightly modified).
The actual word "Dreadnought" does come from the RN saying Steve noted
above and was though appropriate for the ship, since it was by far the
most dangerous ship of its time.
-Erik
tri...@alleg.edu
Steve Bridges
From Steve Bridges <mili...@law7.daytonoh.ncr.com>
It comes from the motto, "Fear God, and dread nought." ie., allow your
religious faith to give you courage. The Royal Navy named their first "all
big-gun" battleship the Dreadnought, and the name stuck for the entire type.
The "all-big gun" battleship differed from previous battleships in that it
deleted the medium batteries of 6-8" guns which were usually mounted in the
sides of the hull (look at a picture of the Maine or any of its
contemporaries). Small guns were retained for defense against torpedo boats.
The main battery was centrally directed (older battleships allowed their guns
to fire individually) and used range-finding and plotting equipment for long-
range gunnery resulting in plunging fire. This rendered previous battleships,
which had little or no deck> armor, and often no tops to their turrets (open
turrets are called barbettes) completely obsolete. The Dreadnought was also
much more heavily armored, thanks to metalurgical advances and better steam
engines, and so the medium-caliber guns couldn't penetrate its armor even at
close ranges.
Oh, yes --before Dreadnought, most gunnery was "over open sights" which
meant just pointing the gun at the target at short range.
An excellent source on the evolution of naval technology is Karl
Lautenschlager's article which first appeared in the journal _International
Security_ and was reprinted in _Naval Strategy and National Security_ (MIT
Press). A second article on the evolution of the submarine is equally good.
Must-reads for anyone interested in the topic.
Ethan McKinney
- --
Steve Bridges, Programmer/Analyst| NCR - Law Department, WHQ-5
mili...@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM | Phone:(513)-445-4486 622-4486 (VOICEplus)
Sci.military moderator
------- End of Forwarded Message
M21...@mwvm.mitre.org
tony ivan zbaraschuk
From tzba...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (tony ivan zbaraschuk)
From tzba...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (tony ivan zbaraschuk)
The first _Dreadnought_ was, I believe, an Elizabethan-era ship (around
the time of the Spanish Armada), named to show that the English fleet
had nought to dread.
The name was passed down from ship to ship in the Royal Navy until it
reached the early 19th-century battleship _Dreadnought_. She was the
first example of a new design theory that battleships should be armed
with as many large-calibur guns as possible (previous battleships had
had 4 12-inch guns; _Dreadnought_ had 10 12-inchers in five turrets).
She was also given turbine engines, making her quite a bit faster than
previous models. Essentially, she made all prior battleships obsolete.
Naturally, everyone started building "Dreadnought-class" battleships as
soon as possible, and this is where the present meaning of the word came
from. (For a *very* good account of the ensuing arms race, see Robert
K. Massie's _Dreadnought_).
It should be noted, BTW, that HMS _Dreadnought_ was the first ship of
her type _completed_, but that the Americans had laid down two similar
sips (whose names I don't remember) even before First Sea Lord Jackie
Fisher started work on _Dreadnought_ (she was built in only a year,
a record for the time).
Tony Zbaraschuk
cg...@ihlpl.att.com
From cg...@ihlpl.att.com
From cg...@ihlpl.att.com
> From M21...@mwvm.mitre.org
>
> Where does the word "dreadnought" come from?
It comes from the name of the first British capital ship that employed
two revolutionary concepts:
* Uniform heavy armament (no mixed heavy guns)
* Geared steam turbine propulsion
The HMS Dreadnought was launched in 1906.
Displacement: 17,900 tons
Length: 527 ft
Beam: 82 ft
Draft: 26'6"
Armament: 10x10" in 5 twin turrets
27x12-pounders (3")
5x18" torpedo tubes
Main Armor: 11.4" belt
Propulsion: Parsons 4-shaft geared steam turbines 23,000 HP
Speed: 21 kts
The decision to abandon the mixed layers of armament is attributed
to the threat of torpedoes, which had 4,000 yds range at 19 kts for 18"
torps. The naval tactics at this time were excessively dominated by
the fear of torpedo attack. ADM "Jacky" Fisher had the ship built
in a period of 14 months, and its appearance caught all of the world's
navies by surprise.
The obvious superiority of this design set off a world-wide
naval arms race by the British, USA, Germany, and Japan. Capital
ships which followed the design were termed "dreadnoughts" to
distinguish them from earlier battleship designs.
The Iowa-class battleships were (are?) "dreadnoughts" by design.
Pat Kauffold (708) 713-4726 (Voice)
AT&T Bell Laboratories (708) 983-0442 (FAX)
IL0015 6M-307 p_kau...@attmail.com (EMAIL)
2000 North Naperville Road
Naperville, IL 60566-7033
e...@cpva.saic.com
From e...@cpva.saic.com
From e...@cpva.saic.com
In article <C8GtJ...@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, M21...@mwvm.mitre.org writes:
> From M21...@mwvm.mitre.org
>
> Where does the word "dreadnought" come from? I know that it refers to
> a large, heavily armed warship. Is the idea that such a ship has nought
> to dread?
It has been a long time, but I did a report on this in high school. The HMS
Dreadnought (1906??) was launched and instantly rendered current battleships
obselete. The launching of the Dreadnought started an arms race in building
battleships that lasted for the better part of four decades despite attempts to
limit battleship construction with treaties in the 1930's.
As to the origination of the word Dreadnought as it relates to ships, I just do
not remember the previous incarnations of the ship Dreadnought.
One of the major resources I used for that report was a book entitled
Dreadnought, a nice coffee table sized book with lots of photos and line
drawings of every class of battleship from Dreadnought to the never built
Montana class of battleship, sort of an Iowa class but with four 3 x 16-inch
turrets.
Charles
Usual disclaimer
Roger Branstiter
From Roger Branstiter <bran...@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
From Roger Branstiter <bran...@oasys.dt.navy.mil>
I am currently reading Massie's "Dreadnought - Germany, Great Britian
and the Coming of the Great War", which is a very interesting book.
HMS Dreadnought, the dreamchild of First Sea Lor Adm. Jackie Fisher,
was the first modern, all big gun (12"), fast (21 Knots) Battleship.
At the time of her commissioning every other warship then in exsistance
or building became obsolete to some degree.
The name "Dreadnought" for British ships comes- from Queen Elizabeth
I era, when she named a new man-of-war_ by that name. Basically, the
name refers to "have no dread in taking this ship to meet the enemy".
Hopee this has been of interest.
Roger
ErikTrimble
From ErikTrimble <tri...@alleg.edu>
From ErikTrimble <tri...@alleg.edu>
Actually, the usage of the word "dreadnought" as to mean a heavily armored
Steve Bridges
David Spencer
From David Spencer <spe...@panix.com>
>From Steve Bridges <mili...@law7.daytonoh.ncr.com>
> It comes from the motto, "Fear God, and dread nought." ie., allow your
>religious faith to give you courage. The Royal Navy named their first "all
>big-gun" battleship the Dreadnought, and the name stuck for the entire type.
The name "Dreadnaught" has a long and illustrious history. The first
RN vessel "Dreadnaught" was commissioned by Queen Elizabeth I to meet
the Armada. If I recall correctly, the first "Dreadnaught" was named
by QE I herself, with the quoted instruction to its crew.
I believe the name has always been given to a vessel of the highest
class then in service.
--
dhs spe...@panix.com
Isaac Kuo
From Isaac Kuo <isaa...@chaos.berkeley.edu>
>From ErikTrimble <tri...@alleg.edu>
>> From M21...@mwvm.mitre.org
>> Where does the word "dreadnought" come from? I know that it refers to
>Actually, the usage of the word "dreadnought" as to mean a heavily armored
>and armed ship or other vehicle (in the naval version, it has become
>synonymous with "battleship") comes from the revolutionary HMS
>Dreadnought, launched about 1905. The Dreadnought was a completely new
>design in battleship - previous battleships had possessed a wide variety
There was a Victorian era Dreadnought as well. It was a conventional design
for the time, with a main armament of muzzle loaded guns in two circular
turrets.
--
/["o"]|8 Isaac Kuo (isaa...@math.berkeley.edu)
,^-----^==_ "Most mammals, whether elephant or elephant shrew,
/___________\ average the same number of heartbeats in their
\=\>-----</=/ lives: about 800 million."
david.r.wells
From "david.r.wells" <d...@cbnewsg.cb.att.com>
In article <C9Hn8...@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> tzba...@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (tony ivan zbaraschuk) writes:
>
>It should be noted, BTW, that HMS _Dreadnought_ was the first ship of
>her type _completed_, but that the Americans had laid down two similar
>sips (whose names I don't remember) even before First Sea Lord Jackie
>Fisher started work on _Dreadnought_ (she was built in only a year,
>a record for the time).
For the record, the two American ships were the USS South Carolina and
USS Michigan. While these two ships were smaller than the Dreadnought,
had fewer guns, and lacked the Dreadnought's advanced (for the day)
steam turbines, they had an important feature that the Dreadnought
lacked: superimposed turrets. This allowed the South Carolinas to fire
all of her 8 guns broadside. The Dreadnought could only fire 8 of her
10 guns broadside. The British didn't think that superimposed main turrets
were possible, until the Americans started building ships with them.
David R. Wells
DISCLAIMER: I don't speak for AT&T.
"There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today" - Adm. Beatty