FA Question: Origin of "redlegs"
Jeffrey A White
From Jeffrey A White <jwh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Can anyone tell me how field artillery got the term "redlegs" and what
it means/symbolizes?
Please e-mail response.
Thanks,
jif
* Jeffrey Alan White | "When you lose your one and only, there's
* aka Jif, Jiffy, Jefe, Primer | room here for the lonely, just watch your
* Survey Engineering Student | broken dreams dance in and out of the
* Field Artillery- King of Battle | beams of a neon moon."-Brooks & Dunn
Michael Rossander
From Michael Rossander <mr...@andrew.cmu.edu>
Excerpts from netnews.sci.military: 14-Feb-94 FA Question: Origin of
"red.. by Jeffrey A White@magnus.a
> Can anyone tell me how field artillery got the term "redlegs" and what
> it means/symbolizes?
How familiar are you with the term "tube life"?
Napolean was the first to put his artillerymen in red trousers. It was
deliberate to cover the sight of the blood and prevent the destruction
of morale in the rest of the army.
You see, when you fire cannon (and any other artillery), the shock of
firing stresses the gun tube. The tube is mere metal and you're putting
it under some pretty tough conditions. It used to be cast iron. After
a while, the metal fatigues and begins to crack. At the time, there was
no way to detect the cracks or predict the life of the tube. Suddenly
one of the cracks will grow and the tube bursts. It's a pretty violent,
messy affair.
The blast in a cast iron tube is not as violent as in a modern tube, but
you still get fragmentation all around the crew manning the gun. At
about waist and thigh level. Artillery was also the prime target of
enemy artillery. So the crews had to deal with the fragmentation from
their shot as well. Remember, this is the same period when it was
common to shackle the crew to the gun to prevent them from running away.
Never-the-less, Napolean was so successful at massing and moving his
artillery that they became the decisive force on the battlefield. His
artillerymen (like most other soldiers) became proud of the sacrifices
and difficulties they overcame. The "redlegs" became a badge of honor
and a distinctive uniform.
And we've been Redlegs ever since.
Michael C Rossander
CPT, FA
Joseph R. Boeke
From "Joseph R. Boeke" <jrb...@e4e.oac.uci.edu>
On Mon, 14 Feb 1994 17:20:19 GMT, Jeffrey A White wrote:
> Can anyone tell me how field artillery got the term "redlegs" and what
> it means/symbolizes?
As I recall, the U.S. Army has used colored tripes along the trouser leg to
denote military specialty since before the American Civil War.
The three main colors (for the primary combat arms) are:
Sky Blue: Infantry
Yellow: Cavalry
Red: Artillery
So, as you can see, an artllerist, would wear a union blue trouser, with a
red stripe (hence redlegs).
I believe that the term "Redlegs" actually originated during the American
Indian Wars, as in Redleg Infantry (at least, that books on the Indian
campaigns are the first place I remember seeing the term). These were
units of artillerists pressed into service as infantry during the Indian
campaigns (field artillery being rather inneffective on Indian campaigns).
- Joe
jrb...@uci.edu
ga...@stsci.edu
From ga...@stsci.edu
Michael Rossander <mr...@andrew.cmu.edu> gave a great answer to the question.
[great answer deleted]
> And we've been Redlegs ever since.
So where did Saint Barbara come into it all?
-Bill Gawne, MSgt USMCR
The nation continues to invest in a Marine Corps based in large part on
its confidence that Marine forces will prevail, even under the most
demanding circumstances. - Introduction to FMFM 1-2
Richard A. De Castro
From "Richard A. De Castro" <deca...@netcom.com>
Jeffrey A White <jwh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:
>From Jeffrey A White <jwh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>Can anyone tell me how field artillery got the term "redlegs" and what
>it means/symbolizes?
>Please e-mail response.
>Thanks,
>jif
It goes back to the original uniforms for the branches of service -
to distinguish the (combat arms), different colored stripes , background
for shoulder loops, etc were devised.
Infantry of course was blue, Cavalry gold (don't call it yellow <g>),
and Arty was red. The stripes were on the outside of the uniform trouser
leg, much as the gold stripes are worn today on the Army Blue uniform.
Hence the name "Redleg". It later became a catch-all radio call sign, etc
for arty units.
--
==========================================================================
deca...@netcom.com Warning: I am a trained professional. No, Really!
Do Not try this yourself - it could get ugly..
Richard A. De Castro - California, North America, Sol-3
==========================================================================
Dale R. Custer
From "Dale R. Custer" <b4im...@lmk41.lmk.usace.army.mil>
> In article <CL85H...@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, Jeffrey A White
<jwh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> says:
>
>
>From Jeffrey A White <jwh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>
>Can anyone tell me how field artillery got the term "redlegs" and what
>it means/symbolizes?
The nickname started because each branch wore its color on a strip running
down the outside of each pant leg. The FA branch color was (and is) red.
Therefore - Redlegs.
Next time you see a Western, look and see if the soldiers don't have yellow
strips
(Calvary - yellow) on their pants.
I didn't email because I thought others might want to know.
Dale R. Custer
Former member 142nd FA Bde
.sig under repair
Dale R. Custer | Si Vis Pacem para Bellum
Network Operations Specialist |
Vicksburg District |
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers |
Vicksburg, MS |
(601) 631-7515 |
J.M.King
From "J.M.King" <j...@ukc.ac.uk>
In article <CLA0C...@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM> Michael Rossander <mr...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>
>enemy artillery. So the crews had to deal with the fragmentation from
>their shot as well. Remember, this is the same period when it was
>common to shackle the crew to the gun to prevent them from running away.
>
Were regular gunners really still shackled to their guns in the
Napoleonic Wars?
James.
Dale R. Custer
From "Dale R. Custer" <b4im...@lmk41.lmk.usace.army.mil>
In article <CLBvF...@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, "Richard A. De Castro" <deca...@netcom.com> says:
>
>
>From "Richard A. De Castro" <deca...@netcom.com>
>
>Jeffrey A White <jwh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu> writes:
>
>
>>From Jeffrey A White <jwh...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
>
>Infantry of course was blue, Cavalry gold (don't call it yellow <g>),
>and Arty was red. The stripes were on the outside of the uniform trouser
>leg, much as the gold stripes are worn today on the Army Blue uniform.
I don't know about your blue uniform but the stripe on my pants are plainly
yellow - and they are descented from caualry uniforms.
Of course my branch color is the worst of all - orange. Yuck. :-)
Dale R. Custer
.sig under repair
Michael Rossander
From Michael Rossander <mr...@andrew.cmu.edu>
Excerpts from netnews.sci.military: 16-Feb-94 Re: FA Question: Origin of
.. by ga...@stsci.edu
> So where did Saint Barbara come into it all?
You guys shouldn't let me talk so much.
-----
Let me first caveat the story by saying that much of my first answer was
part of the oral tradition of the Artillery. Some people have argued
that my facts about the "red legs" may be wrong. I don't have the data
or the inclination to prove or disprove it. It's a story and we think
it's good for our own morale. (As a point, the distinctive colors
predate the identifica- tion stripes. Otherwise, wouldn't you expect
infantry to be the "bluelegs"?)
-----
Saint Barbara was an early Christian. She was one of the first converts
in her area. I don't remember the century or country. Her father was a
pagan who wanted her to recant her new faith.
Barbara was kept locked in a tower for years, tortured and finally
burned at the stake for refusing her father's demands. Her faith never
waivered even as she burned.
In medieval times, she became the patron saint of people who died by
fire and violence. When explosives became common, her patronage was
extended (mostly because the men using them frequently died by the fire
and violence of their own tools). Since early artillery was a very
risky affair, we adopted her quickly.
The British (though not American) Engineers also consider Saint Barbara
their patron saint.
Every year in early December, Artillerymen gather to honor her.
(Usually a dining-in.) Red socks and suspenders are expected.
[For the fact hungry, I will refer you to any good religious
encyclopedia or the Catholic Church.]
Neal Smith
From Neal Smith <sas...@unx.sas.com>
No... I would say most of this post was not factual and I've been
corresponding via email trying to find out what his sources are.
Napoleon did not outfit his gunners in red pants either. I lost the
guy's email address so I'll post my sources here, if you don't mind. ;-)
Arms & Uniforms of the Napoleonic Wars - Part2
Liliane and Fred Funcken
The Napoleonic Sourcebook
Philip J. Haythornwaithe
Napoleon's Specialist Troops
Osprey, Men-at-arms series
Uniforms of 1812, Napoleon's Retreat from Moscow
Philip J. Haythornwaithe &
Michael Chappell
I have a few others but, this should suffice.
Later,
Neal Smith
sas...@unx.sas.com
dave pierson
From pie...@msd26.enet.dec.com (dave pierson)
>From ga...@stsci.edu
...
>So where did Saint Barbara come into it all?
From Memory, but i wrote it up for the pyrotechnic club newsletter:
St Barbara was an early convert to Christianity. Her father promised
her to a "heathen", she refused, was imprisoned, and a bolt of
lightning destroyed the prison. By extension, she became Patron saint
of loud noises 8)>>, including Gunners, Pyrotechnicians, etc.
Feast Day, 4 December.
thanks
dave pierson |the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Digital Equipment Corporation |the opinions, my own.
200 Forest St |I am the NRA.
Marlboro, Mass 01752 USA pie...@msd26.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing." A J Raffles
Juan Carlos Barroux R. - Enterprise Services
From "Juan Carlos Barroux R. - Enterprise Services" <Juan.B...@corp.sun.com>
In Spanish Santa Barbara also refers to the place where the gun
powder was stored in the sail ships.
Speaking for himself,
j.c.
David Emery
From David Emery <em...@goldfinger.mitre.org>
I missed the posted 'answer', but I sent something directly to J.M.
King.
Here's a quick summary: It's a tradition in the U.S. Army, adopted
from European armies, that each branch of the service has a 'color'.
Artillery's color is red, Cavalry is Yellow and Infantry is Blue in
the U.S. Army. In Civil War era uniforms, your 'branch of service
color' was used in piping, and as a stripe along the leg. Hence the
name "redleg" for Artillerymen. This notion of branch color survives
in Army Dress Blue officer uniforms, where the branch color is used as
the background for the shoulderboards, and in a stripe on the sleeve
and on the hat.
dave
--
David Emery (em...@mitre.org)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I divide officers into four classes - the clever, the lazy, the stupid
and the industrious. Each officer possesses at least two of these
qualities. Those who are clever and indistrious are fitted for the
high staff appointments. Use can be made of those who are stupid and
lazy. The man who is clever and lazy is fit for the very highest
commands. He has the temperment and the requisite nerves to deal with
all situations. But whoever is stupid and industrious must be
removed immediately.
Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Copeland
From Frank Copeland <f...@wossname.apana.org.au>
In sci.military, article <CLA0C...@law7.DaytonOH.NCR.COM>, you wrote:
> From Michael Rossander <mr...@andrew.cmu.edu>
>
> Excerpts from netnews.sci.military: 14-Feb-94 FA Question: Origin of
> "red.. by Jeffrey A White@magnus.a
>
> > Can anyone tell me how field artillery got the term "redlegs" and what
> > it means/symbolizes?
[...]
> Napolean was the first to put his artillerymen in red trousers. It was
> deliberate to cover the sight of the blood and prevent the destruction
> of morale in the rest of the army.
As a painter of military miniatures, I can say that the official uniform of
Napoleonic French artillerymen specified white breeches for foot artillery
and blue for horse artillery. In practice they all wore grey or brown
overalls when off the parade ground.
If you look in any book on uniforms from Marlborough's time (some 90 years
prior to Napoleon) to the late 19th century you will see that most nations
dressed their artillerymen in similar uniforms: blue coats with red
facings and white breeches. Some nations gave them red breeches at
various times: my impression is that this practice died out well before
the Napoleonic Wars. It appears to me to be a question of military fashion
more than anything else.
I *have* read of a Russion Grenadier unit in the Seven Year's War (1740s -
1760s) who were given red breeches supposedly to honour their bravery in
some battle where they fought on "up to their waists in blood". Sounds
like a good story for the recruits to me.
I don't recall the term "redlegs" being used except for the US artillery
and other posters have suggested a more plausible explanation for this
nickname in their case.
[... stuff on barrel bursting deleted]
> Never-the-less, Napolean was so successful at massing and moving his
> artillery that they became the decisive force on the battlefield. His
> artillerymen (like most other soldiers) became proud of the sacrifices
> and difficulties they overcame. The "redlegs" became a badge of honor
> and a distinctive uniform.
Napoleon, in this as in all other things, was *not* an innovator. He
simply adopted the best of what was existing practice. The Seven Year's
War some 50 years before his time saw the first use of massed artillery as
a decisive weapon, as well as the introduction of innovations like
militarised artillerists and horse artillery.
> And we've been Redlegs ever since.
I think perhaps you have taken your recruiting officer's stories a bit too
seriously :-)
> Michael C Rossander
> CPT, FA
--
Frank Copeland : f...@wossname.apana.org.au
: f...@werple.apana.org.au
Mail : PO BOX 236, RESERVOIR VIC 3073, AUSTRALIA
Phone : +61 3 469 3354