USS Arizona myths FAQ
Andrew Toppan
USS Arizona & Pearl Harbor: Myths and Facts
In the past months there was a good deal of discussion about USS Arizona
(BB 39) and various myths and half-truths about her destruction and
status. Here I will attempt to set down the facts and kill off some of
the myths that surround the ship.
The top 3 myths about Arizona are, in no particular order:
1. She is still in commission.
2. She was sunk by a bomb falling down the stack and detonating the boilers.
3. All of her 14" guns were removed for use in coastal batteries.
All three of these are totally false, yet several authors who should have
known better have included these falsehoods in their books.
To address them individually:
1. She is *not* in commission. She was placed "in ordinary" at Pearl Harbor
on 29 Dec 1941 and was stricken on 1 Dec 1942. Source is _Dictionary of
American Naval Fighting Ships_, published by the USN.
2. She was hit by 8 bombs, none down the stack. The fatal bomb hit forward,
between #1 and #2 turret, detonating the forward magazines and
causing the forward decks to collapse. The "down the stack" theory
is disproved by several facts:
-The deck over the boilers is intact to this day, and the boiler uptakes
are visible. If the boilers had exploded, the deck would be gone.
-The screen that was over the top of the stack has been found, intact,
in the harbor. A bomb falling down the stack would have pierced it.
-A boiler explosion would not have caused the forward decks to collapse
as they did.
The "down the stack" theory is perpetuated by the notion that the
superstructure was blasted forward as shown in well-known pictures,
this was actually caused by the collapse of the decks below the
superstructure. The "down the stack" theory isn't accepted by many
people who have an interest in naval history, but it is still believed
among the general public, where there is less interest in history.
Source is _Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships_, several
other publications and inspection of photos of the ship.
The actual mechanics of the fatal bomb hit are as follows:
The bomb (a convertd 16.1" naval shell) hit just forward and to
the side of turret #2. It started a large oil fire in the forward
part of the ship. The oil fire ignited over 1,000 pounds of
black powder for the catapults, which was kept in a small magazine
between #1 and #2 turrets. The explosion of the black powder
caused the forward main magazines to explode, destroying the forward
part of the ship.
3. Contrary to popular belief, three of the twelve 14" guns remain in
place. #3 and #4 turrets and their guns were removed, as were the
guns in #2 turret and part of turret itself. Turret #1 and its guns
remain in place, intact. I suspect that the forward turrets (and the
guns of #1) were too badly damaged by the explosion to re-use, so they
were left in place, with parts of #2 being removed to facilitate the
removal of the guns. The existence of the turret and guns is clearly
supported by overhead photography, such as the pictures on page 55 of
the 12/91 issue of _National Geographic_.
Other interesting facts:
-After she was stricken all of her superstructure was removed, both for
scrap value and because is was a hazard.
-The tradition of hoisting the US flag over the ship was started on
7 March 1950, by Admiral Arthur W. Radford, CinPacFlt.
-The memorial over the wreck was dedicated on 30 May 1962, it does not
rest on any part of the ship.
-Oil is still leaking out of the wreck, a few drops at a time.
-Due to structural damage from the attack and 50+ years of rust, the wreck
is reportedly nearing the point of collapse.
-Arizona and Utah (BB 31/AG 16) are the only two ships that were not salvaged
after the attack. Utah capsized during the attack and was partially righted
afterwards to clear a berth. Arizona was left on the bottom because
she is a tomb for over 1000 men and was obviously beyond repair; Utah
had no military value, so there was no point to expend the effort to salvage
her. Utah was placed "in ordinary" and transferred to the Pearl Harbor
Base Force 29 Dec 1941, placed "out of commission, not in service"
5 Sept 1944 and stricken 13 Nov 1944, there is a memorial on Ford Island
beside her berth.
-The third ship that did not return to service was Oklahoma (BB 37), she
capsized during the attack and was righted and raised in 1943. By that
point there was very little need for more old, slow battleships and a
reconstruction would have taken until the end of the war, so she was
decommissioned 1 Sept 1944 and essentially everything above the main deck
was removed. Her guns were installed aboard Pennsylvania (BB 39), and her
hulk remained at Pearl throughout the remainder of the war. She was sold
for scrap 5 Dec 1946, departed Pearl in May 1947, and sank under tow
17 May 1947 540 miles out from Pearl, en route San Francisco for scrapping.
-Two other hulls were destroyed at Pearl 7 Dec 1941, the destroyers
Cassin (DD 372) and Downes (DD 375), the ships were bombed and destroyed
in drydock. Officially these ships did not die at Pearl, as the
machinery and weapons were fitted in totally new hulls launched in 1943.
-Although the _Dictionary of American Fighting Ships_ says Utah is a tomb
for "an unknown number of men," some simple math shows that there are
60 men inside (6 officers, 58 enlisted KIA, 4 buried ashore). Arizona
is a tomb for 1,177 men.
-Arizona and Utah are not the only hulks at the bottom of the harbor--
5 LSTs (43, 69, 179, 353 and 480) were destroyed in an ammunition
handling accident and resultant explosion on 21 May 1944. Their hulks
remain in the West Loch of Pearl Harbor.
--
Andrew Toppan --- el...@wpi.edu --- http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/
Railroads, Ships and Aircraft Homepage, Tom Clancy FAQ Archive
"I am Pentium of Borg. Arithmetic is irrelevant. Prepare to be approximated."
Geoff Miller
el...@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan) writes:
> 3. Contrary to popular belief, three of the twelve 14" guns remain in
> place.
So only _some_ of the guns were removed for use in shore batteries. I've
read that this facility was named Battery Arizona. But where on Oahu was
it? Is it still in existence? I know there's a shore battery emplacement
just outside the front gate of NAS Barbers Point, surrounded by sugar cane
fields, which I've explored. That's the only such emplacement on Oahu that
I know about, or at least, the only _surviving_ one. Two questions"
1) Where is/was Battery Arizona?
2) What are the locations of other shore battery emplacements on Oahu,
if any?
> -After she was stricken all of her superstructure was removed, both for
> scrap value and because is was a hazard.
But how could it have been a hazard? Any vessel that was close enough
to hit it would also presumably have "run aground" on the hull before
it even reached the remains of the superstructure.
I've always been curious about the removal of the Arizona's superstructure.
I've never seen any reference stating that it was removed for scrap value
-- or for any other particular reason, which is rather curious. It seems
reasonable to suspect that it was removed simply to get it out of sight for
morale purposes, or maybe because it was an eyesore that would get uglier
as it started rusting.
I recall reading somewhere, when I was stationed in Hawaii during the 1980s
(CGAS Barbers Point), that the superstructure is stored somewhere over by
the West Loch/NAVMAG Lualualei to this day. I've never known whether or
not to believe that, but I never caught sight of it while making countless
approaches to Honolulu International Airport over the Pearl Harbor area,
and I made a point of searching.
Geoff
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Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Sun Microsystems
geo...@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM + + + + + + + + Palo Alto, California
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Chris Jones
-Oil is still leaking out of the wreck, a few drops at a time.
Does anyone know how much oil was in the Arizona, and how much is estimated to
be left? I had heard that oil was leaking, but when I was there in November
1984, I was surprised at how much was leaking. There was a noticeable "pool"
of oil on the surface, and the smell was quite strong.
Andrew Toppan
: But how could it have been a hazard?
It could burn, collapse, fall, etc. It's an unstable, unsupported,
heavy mass of steel. I'd rather not be nearby when it decides to fall
over.
: I recall reading somewhere, when I was stationed in Hawaii during the 1980s
: (CGAS Barbers Point), that the superstructure is stored somewhere over by
: the West Loch/NAVMAG Lualualei to this day. I've never known whether or
: not to believe that,
Sounds like another 'sea story'. The superstructure was a wreck
before it was removed. Even if the ship had been salvaged, it would
have received a new superstructure.
--
Andrew Toppan --- el...@wpi.edu --- http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/
Railroads, Ships and Aircraft Homepage, Tom Clancy FAQ Archive
"It's a damn poor mind that can only think of one way to spell a word."
news
: In article <46s5k4$k...@bigboote.WPI.EDU> el...@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan) writes:
: -Oil is still leaking out of the wreck, a few drops at a time.
: Does anyone know how much oil was in the Arizona, and how much is estimated to
: be left? I had heard that oil was leaking, but when I was there in November
: 1984, I was surprised at how much was leaking. There was a noticeable "pool"
: of oil on the surface, and the smell was quite strong.
Oil does still leak from the Arizona and can be seen when on the memorial
and viewing mauka or I believe towards the stern.
--
Windward O'ahu Slackware Pro 2.1 Usenet/Mail/Linux Site Kailua, HI
John DeVirgilio
On 1 Nov 1995, Barry Von Brunt wrote:
> :: I recall reading somewhere, when I was stationed in Hawaii during the 1980s
> :: (CGAS Barbers Point), that the superstructure is stored somewhere over by
> :: the West Loch/NAVMAG Lualualei to this day. I've never known whether or
> :: not to believe that,
> :
> :Sounds like another 'sea story'. The superstructure was a wreck
> :before it was removed. Even if the ship had been salvaged, it would
> :have received a new superstructure.
>
> According to a source I have (published within the last ten years), the
> remains of the superstructure is still sitting somewhere on the Waipio Peninsula
> in the harbor. The photo which accompanied the wreckage shows it in an overgrown
> area partially covered with scrub brush.
>
> I couldn't recognize any of the structures show in the picture. Looks like a
> bunch of rusty scrap metal...
>
>
>
>
Hi All,
I have visited the USS Arizona wreckage site on many occasions. The site
only major portions of the galley area and a few pieces of the
superstructure's tripod legs. Most of the superstructure was cut up and
scraped during the war and is *NOT* at the Waipio site in Pearl Harbor.
Aloha,
John F. De Virgilio
John DeVirgilio
On 31 Oct 1995, Geoff Miller wrote:
>
>
> el...@wpi.edu (Andrew Toppan) writes:
>
> > 3. Contrary to popular belief, three of the twelve 14" guns remain in
> > place.
>
> So only _some_ of the guns were removed for use in shore batteries. I've
> read that this facility was named Battery Arizona. But where on Oahu was
> it? Is it still in existence? I know there's a shore battery emplacement
> just outside the front gate of NAS Barbers Point, surrounded by sugar cane
> fields, which I've explored. That's the only such emplacement on Oahu that
> I know about, or at least, the only _surviving_ one. Two questions"
>
> 1) Where is/was Battery Arizona?
> 2) What are the locations of other shore battery emplacements on Oahu,
> if any?
>
>
> > -After she was stricken all of her superstructure was removed, both for
> > scrap value and because is was a hazard.
>
> But how could it have been a hazard? Any vessel that was close enough
> to hit it would also presumably have "run aground" on the hull before
> it even reached the remains of the superstructure.
>
> I've always been curious about the removal of the Arizona's superstructure.
> I've never seen any reference stating that it was removed for scrap value
> -- or for any other particular reason, which is rather curious. It seems
> reasonable to suspect that it was removed simply to get it out of sight for
> morale purposes, or maybe because it was an eyesore that would get uglier
> as it started rusting.
>
> I recall reading somewhere, when I was stationed in Hawaii during the 1980s
> (CGAS Barbers Point), that the superstructure is stored somewhere over by
> the West Loch/NAVMAG Lualualei to this day. I've never known whether or
> not to believe that, but I never caught sight of it while making countless
> approaches to Honolulu International Airport over the Pearl Harbor area,
> and I made a point of searching.
>
>
> Geoff
>
>
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
> Geoff Miller + + + + + + + + Sun Microsystems
> geo...@purplehaze.Corp.Sun.COM + + + + + + + + Palo Alto, California
> -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
>
>
>
>
The remains of Battery Arizona are located in the low mountian area just
southwest of Makakilo above Barber's Point. The remains of Battery
Pennsylvania can be found at the lower Mokapu ridge located in the Kaneohe
Marine Corps Base.
I hope this helps.... John F. De Virgilio
Michael K. Tamada
>
>USS Arizona & Pearl Harbor: Myths and Facts
[...]
>-The third ship that did not return to service was Oklahoma (BB 37), she
[...]
> was removed. Her guns were installed aboard Pennsylvania (BB 39), and her
> hulk remained at Pearl throughout the remainder of the war. She was sold
Question: why? Was there something wrong with Pennsylvania's guns,
such that they had to be replaced? Does this refer to the main battery,
and/or secondary?
--Mike Tamada
Occidental College
tam...@oxy.edu
Paul S. George
Thanks.
--
Paul S. George (psge...@infinet.com)
Andrew Toppan
: Question: why? Was there something wrong with Pennsylvania's guns,
: such that they had to be replaced?
Probably worn out from shore bombardment.
Here's a question: Oklahoma had 10 guns, Pennsylvania had 12. Where
did the two additional guns come from?
: Does this refer to the main battery, and/or secondary?
Main. The secondary batteries were obsolete before the war, and were
eventually replaced with modern dual 5/38s (on Pennsylvania, other
ships had different guns).
--
Andrew Toppan --- el...@wpi.edu --- http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/
Railroads, Ships and Aircraft Homepage, Tom Clancy FAQ Archive
Andrew Toppan
: Does a USS Arizona FAQ exist?
Only the FAQ about the three popular Arizona myths, although it covers
some material not directly related to the myths.
: And if it does, where could I find it?
http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/navy.html
--
Andrew Toppan --- el...@wpi.edu --- http://www.wpi.edu/~elmer/
Railroads, Ships and Aircraft Homepage, Tom Clancy FAQ Archive
dnutting
>The Japanese dropped ten 800kg "No.80" armor piercing bombs on the
>U.S.S. Arizona. The Japanese believed between 2-4 bombs scored hits.
>Although various post attack war reports estimated between seven to eight
>hits, recent re-assessment can find evidence for only two hits. No bomb
>passed through the funnel uptake on the U.S.S. Arizona. Movie film footage
>of the Arizona's magazine explosion clearly shows the forward magazine
>exploded before the plume of smoke passed up the uptakes.
Well, YOU are one of the last people I would dispute anything to do
with ARIZONA's fate on 07 December 41; I have your diagram of the ship with
the bomb hits marked right here in front of me as I write. I went and ran
the tape of the attack which shows subject smoke plume and you're right, it
is seconds AFTER vice seconds BEFORE which is how I remembered it. Now, on
your diagram you show four (4) bomb hits......which two are now doubtful??
Dwayne
dnutting
>Here's a question: Oklahoma had 10 guns, Pennsylvania had 12. Where
>did the two additional guns come from?
Dwayne
John DeVirgilio
Dwayne and all...
Yes, my 1991 assessement incorrectly shows three hits midships and aft.
This eroor has been since corrected to one hit aft and one hit forward. The
primary reason for this recent (1992) correction resulted from the
recovery of underwater newly discovered salvage diagrams that clearly
show no 20" X 24" penetration holes through the 5" armored deck (port side)
in the areas forward or aft of the USS Arizona's mainmast. The Japanese
800kg AP bomb carried only 50 pounds of TNA explosives and had a limited
blast effect after deep penetration.
The following conclusion can now be drawn- The first 800kg bomb hit
occurred on the starboard leading edge of turret #4 near the turret face.
This bomb was deflected aft and passed through two decks before it detonated.
Damage from this first hit was relatively minor. The fatal 800kg bomb struck
at approx. 0806 on the starboard side of turret #2. This bomb was released
by Lt. Shojiro Kondo from 3200m with an expected impact time of 26.5 seconds.
The late great Gordon Prange make a mistake by crediting N.Kanai from the
carrier Soryu as the person who scored the hit on the USS Arizona.
Bombardier Lt. Kondo was killed in the southwest Pacific in 1944 and his
commader and pilot Lt. Cdr. Tadashi Kusumi was killed at Miday. I hope
to get my manuscript published on the battleship damage at Pearl
Harbor sometime next year(?)...
John F. De Virgilio
dnutting
>commader and pilot Lt. Cdr. Tadashi Kusumi was killed at Miday. I hope
>to get my manuscript published on the battleship damage at Pearl
>Harbor sometime next year(?)...
CALIFORNIA (MY favorite battleship) could very probably have been prevented
from sinking if they could have sorted out the post-attack confusion enough
to round up available salvage assets in time; in your opinion, is there
any truth in this??
Dwayne
Andrew Toppan
:
: On that subject let me ask: I have heard it said repeatedly that
: CALIFORNIA (MY favorite battleship) could very probably have been prevented
: from sinking if they could have sorted out the post-attack confusion enough
: to round up available salvage assets in time; in your opinion, is there
: any truth in this??
IMHO, no. By the time the attack was over she was sunk or nearly so.
It was actually the counter flooding that sank her, but the
alternative was capsizing, and they'd already seen Oklahoma go over.
With the hull opened by several torpedoes and the watertight integrity
destroyed by open hatches, there was nothing salvage crews could have
done after the attack.
dnutting
>IMHO, no. By the time the attack was over she was sunk or nearly so.
>It was actually the counter flooding that sank her, but the
>alternative was capsizing, and they'd already seen Oklahoma go over.
>With the hull opened by several torpedoes and the watertight integrity
>destroyed by open hatches, there was nothing salvage crews could have
>done after the attack.
the day after the attack. Her watertight integrity was poor due to all the
voids having their covers off for inspection....seems like salvage crews
could have started by putting them back on.... Although badly damaged,
she WAS raised and repaired enough to be underway for the West coast in
six months (under her own power).
Dwayne