Toyota Avalon -- A Superb American Car From A Japanese Manufacturer
D. Spencer Hines
Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
Introduction
Toyota Avalon is undoubtedly the best American car ever built by a Japanese
manufacturer. Granted, it is front-wheel drive, and its exterior dimensions
seem smaller than its American counterparts, but the Avalon is full-sized
inside and full-sized in its emphasis on quiet, ease, and convenience.
The Avalon is smooth and comfortable underway, quiet and serene. The
suspension is tuned for ride comfort, and it largely excels in this area.
The double-overhead-cam V6 engine is smooth, quiet and powerful, while the
electronically controlled five-speed automatic transmission ensures
smoothness and economy. And Avalon comes with the latest in safety
features.
Inside is a comfortable cabin lavished with tasteful materials and
ergonomically designed controls that make the Avalon easy to operate and
pleasant to drive. The front seats are roomy and comfortable, and special
attention was paid to back-seat comfort. This is a car that will never annoy
you.
Avalon's styling is understated, presenting a quiet look of grace and
agility. Four trim variations are available, each representing slightly
different priorities to broaden Avalon's appeal. Avalon was completely
redesigned late in 2005. For '07, a tire pressure monitor is now standard on
all models, and the navigation system is now available in the Touring trim
level.
Avalon benefits from Toyota's reputation for quality, durability and
reliability. And, given that it was designed in Newport Beach, California;
engineered by the Toyota Technical Center in Ann Arbor, Michigan; and is
built in Georgetown, Kentucky; it could be argued that the Avalon is the
best American car from an American manufacturer....
<http://www.automotive.com/2007/12/toyota/avalon/reviews/index.html>
-----------------------------------------------
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
D. Spencer Hines
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
------------------------------------------------------
2007 Toyota Avalon Reviews
Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
...Lineup
The 2007 Toyota Avalon is available in four trim levels: XL, Touring, XLS,
and Limited. All are powered by a 3.5-liter V6, connected to a five-speed
automatic transmission with a sequential-shift feature.
Avalon XL ($26,875) comes with cloth upholstery; eight-way
adjustable power driver's seat; dual-zone climate control with air
filtration; a premium-level AM/FM/CD/cassette stereo with nine speakers;
remote keyless entry; power door locks with anti-lockout feature; power
windows with driver and passenger auto up/down, pinch protection and
retained power; Optitron instruments with chrome accents; maintenance
indicator light; steering-wheel-mounted audio and climate controls; and a
multi-function information display for audio, climate control, temperature
and trip computer. The XL also has cruise control, an engine immobilizer and
a tilt and telescoping steering column. Tires are 215/60R16 on aluminum
wheels, and the spare tire is full-sized, with a matching aluminum rim. A
tire-pressure monitor is now standard as well.
The Touring model ($29,125) features more aggressive suspension tuning and
17-inch alloy wheels with P215/55R17 Michelin MXV4 tires. Touring also
upgrades to leather-trimmed seats with four-way power for the front
passenger, a leather-wrapped steering wheel and shift knob, and aluminum
scuff plates. Also distinguishing the Touring are high-intensity-discharge
(HID) head lamps, fog lamps, and a rear decklid spoiler.
The XLS ($31,325) reverts to standard headlights and suspension, keeps the
fog lamps and 17-inch tire size, and adds a power moonroof, in-dash six-disc
CD changer, dual heated outside mirrors (with electrochromic auto-dimming on
the driver's side), an auto-dimming rearview mirror with compass and
Homelink universal transceiver, and an anti-theft system.
The Limited ($34,065) adds a 360-watt JBL Synthesis audio system with
six-disc CD changer and 12 speakers, a one-touch auto-reverse power rear
sunshade, power driver's seat cushion length adjuster, the Smart Key system,
unique 17-inch alloy wheels, HID headlamps, a wood-and-leather-trimmed shift
knob and steering wheel, rain-sensing windshield wipers, and a driver and
passenger seat heater and cooling fan.
Stand-alone options include the power moonroof ($910),
in-dash six-CD changer ($200), and anti-theft system ($220). Touring and
above offer heated seats packaged with VSC stability control ($1,090), the
JBL Synthesis sound system ($840), navigation system ($1,900), and a
JBL/navigation package ($4,005). Dynamic laser cruise control ($600) is
optional on Limited only.
Safety features that come standard on all models include
driver and front-passenger airbags, seat-mounted side-impact airbags for
torso protection, side curtain airbags for head protection, and a driver's
knee airbag. Active safety features include anti-lock brakes (ABS) with
Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD). Optional on all Avalons is
Vehicle Stability Control (VSC) with Traction Control and Brake Assist
($650)....
<http://www.automotive.com/2007/12/toyota/avalon/reviews/index.html>
Renia
> King Arthur himself never had it so good.
Well, he never had a bloomin' motor car.
Tiglath
> 2007 Toyota Avalon Reviews
>
> Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
As shooting as floating on air.
I.e., Granpa HInes version of walking on water.
> Avalon's styling is understated, presenting a quiet look of grace and
> agility.
Agility? Who is the reviewer a Sumo wrestler?
This is what a few Avalon owners who are Real Drivers have to say:
---------------------
I have a 2006 Avalon, traded in the 2000 Solara for it. I drove it for
the first time on the Higway on a 10 hour trip from FL to GA. I am
severely disappointed in the amount of control this vehicle has on the
higway . I am trying to find out if it's only my car, or if anyone
else has the same problems.
What it's doing: 1)While driving behind a semi the car gets strongly
rocked from left to right, you have a LOT of work to do to maintain
your lane. A LOT more than any other car or even junkyard worthy
vehicles I've ever owned. A LOT.......
2) when you decide to pass that semi, you get pushed off the road as
you aproach the front of the truck- MUCH MUCH more severe than any
other car I've driven in the last 40+ years.
3) When driving on uneven pavement like for instance only one half of
the lane is new, the other half is old and rough, normally no big
deal- but in the avalon it immediately makes the car ride like you
have solid shocks- and the car starts bouncing like a lowrider hitting
speedbumps. The solara never did any of these things.
4)The front tires are feathering on the outside, and it's handling
like a toed out car would. It wants to go everywhere but straight
ahead, and I believe the active handling system is adding to the
problem and making it 10X worse. So I would like to be able to switch
it off and see what happens.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/avalon/61076-2006-avalon-handling-problems
-----------------------
"Love my 05 XLS, but wish it handled better." [weep]
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124788
"I have an 05 Limited. It handles like a full size Buick."
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110760
Can all those Avalon owners be wrong?
It gets worse...
"Toyota Motor Corp. is recalling about 4,900 of its 2005 model-year
Avalon sedans in the United States to fix a defect in the steering
wheel column that could result in a loss of control of the vehicle."
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-15037.html
Not all is bad, here is the gravy...
A favorite among retirees and the elderly...
"if your lifestyle requires a lot of rear room -- carrying elderly
parents, toting tall kids, etc. -- Avalon's a no-brainer."
http://cgi1.usatoday.com/mchat/20050211002/tscript.htm
--
Hmmmm. When my teacher told me. "Listen, you will often find that a
Jesuitical Baccalaureat gives you more mileage than say, a Yale
degree," I didn't believe him, but the archives vindicate Brother
Honorio a hundredfold.
It looks like Young HInes should have been reading text books more
instead of listening to the Whiffmyshoos
Duke Of Earl
Ain't thsat Frankie Avalons motha?
William Black
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:8zF8j.37$7c7...@eagle.america.net...
Translation.
Slow, wallowing, over sprung, over engined, bland, poor styling.
A typical American car
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Jack Linthicum
I presume everyone knows the code name for the Avalon before release
was "Fat Camry"?
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/10/toyota_quality.html
Is Toyota's Quality Slipping?
Surveys, Consumer Complaints Suggest It May Be
By Joe Benton
ConsumerAffairs.Com
October 11, 2006
Toyota
• Airbags
• Engine Problems
• Cruise Control
• Cooling System
• Safety
• Toyota Motor Credit
• Avalon
• Echo
• Prius
• Tacoma
• Tundra
---
Reviews
• 2006 Prius
• 2007 Camry
---
News
• Quality Auditor Charges Toyota Cover-Up
• Toyota Agrees to Oil-Sludge Settlement
• Toyota Camry Named "Car of the Year"
• Software Glitch Slows Some 2007 Camrys
• Is Toyota's Quality Slipping?
• Toyota Delays U.S. Sales of New Corolla to Improve Quality
• Facing Massive Recalls, Toyota Executives Promise to Do Better
• Toyota Recalls Near 800,000 for July
• Japanese Probe Recall Delay at Toyota
• Toyota Builds More Efficient Gasoline Engines
• Toyota Cuts Entry-Level Camry Price, Boosts Luxury Model
• Toyota Dons NASCAR Racing Gear
• Toyota Sludge
Is Toyota's quality slipping? The company lost ground in an annual
vehicle value survey. While many consumers still give the Japanese
automaker high marks, some analysts are suggesting the auto giant is
growing too fast in its pursuit of General Motors.
San Diego-based Strategic Vision surveyed more than 64,000 people who
purchased new vehicles from October 2005 to March 2006. Consumers were
surveyed after 90 days of ownership and asked if they thought they got
their money�s worth.
Toyota, which had seven segment winners in 2005, took only three
categories in the new study and has been moving slower than other
brands when it comes to innovation, according to an auto industry
analyst.
As Toyota executives struggle with their corporate image, Jennifer in
Bardstown Kentucky is struggling with the foul smell pouring out of
her new Toyota.
"We purchased a 2006 Toyota Avalon, we noticed when we drove it that
there was a rotten egg smell to it when you accelerated or went up
hills," she wrote ConsumerAffairs.Com.
"This was first dismissed by the dealership as a new car smell.
However about 3 weeks later we could not start the car on the first
try. This does not occur all the time but does occur at least once a
week. It will also cause the motor to shake violently before it
starts. Every time I have taken it in to the dealership I have been
told it cannot be fixed because they cannot duplicate the problem."
Jennifer said.
So Jennifer and her husband took matters in their on hands in a effort
to fight back, much to the dismay and anger of their Toyota dealer.
"We went in there today to get some rattling corrected in the window
and had (written) on the back window about the car being a lemon. This
upset them and the service manager told us to remove it or he would
call the police."
During the period of the Strategic Vision value survey, Toyota car and
truck buyers complained to ConsumerAffairs.Com of oil leaks, poor
workmanship,design, strange odors and gasoline mileage as the
automaker dealt with a surge in recalls attributed to cost-cutting
efforts that use the same parts on more models.
Calisandria in San Leandro told us, "I was sold a car that has an oil
leak which the service department cannot find."
"I bought this car, and by the time I got home smoke was coming out
from under the hood. I parked the car where there are no oil spots on
the ground. The next morning I go to check to see if there are any oil
spots. There are about 4 spots on the ground," she wrote.
The recent surge in recalls at Toyota peaked in July when the
automaker recalled about 400,000 SUVs in the U.S., its single biggest
market. The spate of recalls has led some analysts to suggest a
decline may well be under way at Toyota.
"Toyota has become the recall king, something the company never had to
wrestle with in the past as it won most of the JD Powers and other car
quality surveys," wrote Wall Street analyst Douglas A. McIntyre. But,
as the company's market share has ballooned in the U.S., Toyota had to
ramp up production for North America and quality seems to have
suffered," he wrote.
Other industry analysts warn that Toyota may be becoming complacent as
the company attempts to overtake General Motors as the world's largest
car company. They cite the Strategic Vision survey as new evidence
that growth may be undermining quality at Toyota.
and
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/02/toyota-avalon-proving-problematic-as-quality-concerns-grow-for/
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
Just what would the charge be? Writing on your own property?
> andhttp://www.autoblog.com/2006/05/02/toyota-avalon-proving-problematic-...
>
> http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0c81ae
D. Spencer Hines
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
---------------------------------------
2007 Toyota Avalon Reviews
Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
Walkaround
At first glance, the '07 Toyota Avalon appears as an elegant, if unassuming,
sedan. A second glance and it looks sleek, powerful, and advanced.
The Avalon line dates back to 1995, and was completely redesigned for 2000.
This third-generation Avalon was launched as a 2005 model and carries into
2007 unchanged in appearance. It projects more character and looks more
contemporary than either previous-generation Avalon, with a wider, longer
stance.
This is especially apparent from the rear, where a tall deck, large tail
lamps and dual exhaust outlets suggest an expensive touring sedan. The
handsome rear deck line remains undisturbed by a wing, except in the Touring
grade, which mounts a rear lip spoiler consistent with its sporty wheels and
brighter accents.
The front of the Avalon is dominated by a horizontal grille with
chrome-accented bars, and a wide lower intake valence calling attention to
its width. The lines created by the valence are extended by use of fog
lamps on the Touring, XLS and Limited models....
<http://www.automotive.com/2007/12/toyota/avalon/reviews/index.html>
Paul J Gans
>Translation.
>A typical American car
Actually, it is built upon a Camry chassis with mainly
Camry components. It is designed to appeal to Americans
with a real need to feel superior -- without spending the
money for a Mercedes or a BMW.
By the way, most of the material above was written by a
Toyota flack.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
tankfixer
willia...@hotmail.co.uk says...
Ah, but it runs...
Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
the rain with the electrics shorted out....
deem...@aol.com
It's just the high end Toyota. Nothing more, nothing less. If
people want to feel superior, they buy a Lexus.
deem...@aol.com
> In article <fk083h$cf...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk says...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
.....and not able to get parts for.
D. Spencer Hines
AVALON -- Good Name -- It Has Mythic And Protohistorical Resonance.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
------------------------------------------
2007 Toyota Avalon Reviews
Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
Interior
Climbing inside reveals an elegant cabin, remarkably clean and uncluttered,
and very roomy.
Choose the leather upholstery and it feels quite luxurious. The leather
used for the seat and door trim is first class, with attractive stitching to
tie it all together. Wood trim is tasteful and beautiful, and it warms up
the cabin.
The front seats are firm but not hard and relatively flat.
They're quite comfortable and feature power adjustments and optional memory
functions. In addition to heated front seats, the Limited model features a
fan in the seat cushion and seatback that blows cabin air through the
perforated leather trim to improve comfort.
Knobs for seat heating and cooling are conveniently located on the center
console. The front of the driver's seat bottom is power adjustable,
offering improved thigh support.
And the steering column tilts and telescopes. In short, these seats will
not permit any form of discomfort, no matter what the conditions. They
provide an apt analogy for the entire car, a vehicle possessed of small
comforts that add up to a satisfying environment to soothe the driver.
The Optitron instruments are elegant and technically appealing displays,
round in shape but unmistakably advanced.
Retracting lids hide controls for audio and navigation, reducing clutter.
The action of the retracting covers is slow and measured, with the look and
satisfying feel of high-end audio equipment.
These covers and panels are silver-painted plastic, following a trend
started by Lincoln, Nissan and others. We wonder how good they'll look in
five years.
And some other trim pieces, such as the housing for the steering column,
show this isn't an expensive luxury car. In the Limited model, however,
this is offset by a handsome steering wheel trimmed in wood and leather.
Overall, Avalon's interior feels upmarket and high quality. Wood accents,
particularly on the Limited, are attractive and judiciously placed. The
chrome door scuff plates on the Touring grade, particularly, are notably
attractive and distinctive.
The navigation system is excellent and we recommend it.
The controls to operate it are behind a panel that folds out like an ashtray
in front of the shifter. It's an unconventional design, but it works and the
controls are fairly easy to reach. The buttons used to control navigation,
climate and audio are superb, big, clearly marked, illuminated and easy to
operate.
The roominess of the cabin extends to the back seats.
Rear-seat legroom is particularly generous, with three-across seating
facilitated by the totally flat floor. We rode in the rear seat, directly
behind a six-foot driver, with legroom to spare. In fact, there's enough
room that we could imagine the Avalon as a taxi.
The rear seat is comfortable, and offers 10 degrees of adjustment to create
five sitting positions. Reclining the backrest effectively increases
headroom, so people of varying heights and sizes can find comfort.
The trunk is family sized, with a pass-through door to the rear seat for
long gear such as skis.
The Limited model comes with a Smart Key that eliminates the need to pull it
out of your pocket or purse. To use it, just walk up to the car. At a
touch, all four doors unlock. Climb in. Foot on the brake, touch the Start
button and the car hums to life. No fumbling with keys.
Jack Linthicum
> In article <fk083h$cf...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk says...
>
>
>
>
>
That is a lie! My MGA's electrics would short out in dry weather.
D. Spencer Hines
That's a Primary Consideration:
How far away is the nearest dealer who can service your car superbly?
Lexus may be too far away also.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:86069cd2-c5b1-4368...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
Tiglath
Anyone buying an Avalon to feed his need to feel superior ain't a good
provider.
Tiglath
> Yep...
>
> That's a Primary Consideration:
>
> How far away is the nearest dealer who can service your car superbly?
>
> Lexus may be too far away also.
>
How ignorant.
There is a plethora of former Lexus technicians in business for
themselves offering virtually the same service than the Lexus dealer
for a much lower price, and otherwise "Japanese Specialist" car shops
everywhere. All you'll miss is that the service will not go into you
Lexus master service record accessible worldwide.
Lexus also have a roving mechanic in cities. Like a car ambulance;
it is part of their concierge service. If you have a flat when
wearing a tuxedo and don't want to bother, call.
If you have a Ferrari or a Maserati it can be rather inconvenient to
look after your car, but not a Lexus.
I understand, however, Mr. Hines' need to make out that there are many
advantages of owning a Toyota instead of a Lexus other than monetary,
because he could not afford the car he really wanted, due to the
misfortune that all Mr. Hines' Yale education got him is more dash
than cash.
Peter Jason
"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> wrote in
message
news:fk156n$i8o$2...@reader1.panix.com...
It looks like a typical bourgeois kid
carrier.
http://www.google.com.au/images?as_q=&hl=en&output=images&svnum=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=toyota+avalon&as_oq=&as_eq=&imgtype=&imgsz=&as_filetype=&imgc=&as_sitesearch=&safe=images&as_st=y
D. Spencer Hines
trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an Avalon can provide,
we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in Hawai'i. It would be
gross overkill.
We'd position it at one of our places on the Mainland.
But I also want to make absolutely sure that certified, customer-savvy,
experienced Lexus technicians and mechanics are close by.
Tiglath says he sees many Avalons in the Greater Washington D.C.-Northern
Virginia-Maryland Megalopolis.
That makes him furious, prickly and irrational because he doesn't like the
way they look, as compared to his weak and lower-end, indeed bottom-end
pricepoint Prius.
Amusing...
But it makes me even happier because it means more smart people are buying
Avalons, probably for many of the same good reasons we did, and the
experience and testing base for the car will be much larger.
It also means there will be more certified, experienced, competent Avalon
technicians and mechanics and perhaps more Toyota dealerships as well, over
the long haul.
Driving cross-country under arduous conditions I'd much prefer to know I can
almost always find a Toyota dealership, rather than having to search out a
Lexus dealership or call for someone to come to me, if I have trouble with
the car I can't fix myself.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Deus Vult
redc1c4
the Camry is a POS, driven primarily by morons (at least here in LA).
i'll stick with our 98 C class beater for day to day, the SLK for fun
outings and racing for pinks, and my BTS 96 Nissan p/u for log runs...
at least until i finally get back the 63 Willys* some bastard stole from me.
i'd also like an early 70's Nova, a 66-68 El Camino, a CJ-5, and a Mazda RX-4
station wagon, all suitably w*rked up, SoCal style. a street legal M35-A2
w/winch would be nice too. that would make a helluva of an RV.
as a complete aside, i have pictures of an AMC Gremlin i saw in Torrance the
other day, complete with a hood scoop, racing slicks and wheelie bars on the
back end....street legal with plates. (TINS)
redc1c4,
*built 327 Chevy: Edelbrock, Holly, Isky, Mallory.... etc. %-(
--
"Enlisted men are stupid, but extremely cunning and sly, and bear
considerable watching."
Army Officer's Guide
J A
> If we do buy a Lexus 460L, because of larger family needs and cross-country
> trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an Avalon can provide,
> we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in Hawai'i. It would be
> gross overkill.
>
> We'd position it at one of our places on the Mainland.
Oh, brother.
Dave,,, you should know better by now than to try to be specific about
anything - it always ends badly.
Your crowing about the Avalon has once again left you in the position
of a topless dancer crashing a gay party.
As for your "places on the Mainland",,, I'm sure a Lexus or an Avalon
would be out of place in any of those trailer parks.
Tiglath
> If we do buy a Lexus 460L, because of larger family needs and cross-country
> trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an Avalon can provide,
> we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in Hawai'i. It would be
> gross overkill.
>
> We'd position it at one of our places on the Mainland.
Hilarious.
Granpa Hines HOPES someone will believe that he has 80K lying around
to buy a car to use in a place where he doesn't live, where at best
would be used occasionally, and set [sic] unused for most of the
time. While the reality is that he can't afford the superior comfort
a Lexus provides; the reason is simple: if the large Lexus is be
overkill in Hawaii, there are SMALLER Lexus -- Avalon size -- to be
had, which clearly Mr. Hines cannot afford.
The fact that Granpa Hines does NOT have a say, Lexus ES350 class car,
a car size perfect for Hawaii according to Granpa Hines, and has an
inferior car, speaks louder than posturing Granpa Hines is capable
of.
Granpa Hines can continue to put on airs, but he can't erase the clear
impression of his actual circumstance, which he has so well
exposed. He likes Lexus cars, but he has to settle for what he can
get, just.
>
> But I also want to make absolutely sure that certified, customer-savvy,
> experienced Lexus technicians and mechanics are close by.
>
You mean these... ?
> Tiglath says he sees many Avalons in the Greater Washington D.C.-Northern
> Virginia-Maryland Megalopolis.
>
> That makes him furious, prickly and irrational because he doesn't like the
> way they look, as compared to his weak and lower-end, indeed bottom-end
> pricepoint Prius.
>
Nope. That makes me laugh thinking of you at the wheel levitating.
Indeed. I drive a Prius on rainy and cold days. Even a cheaper
vehicle on sunny and warmer days.
And I am quite happy doing so; I am just an average guy from
Barcelona.
I don't measure my worth by what I drive, much as I am well aware some
people do.
Should not the Son of an Admiral, hailing from a rich cradle, who has
been given opportunities less than 0.1% of the population are lucky to
get, be enjoying a higher station in life than yours?
I'd say a Lexus, Mercedes, or BMW class vehicle would be THE MINIMUM
comfort that would befit such a man.
Granpa Hines can't help being old, but does he have to act old? Why
drive one of the cars most favored by retirees and geriatrics?
Especially when he clearly has his heart set on a Lexus, as he
reiterates in this very post.
Not just over the hill, but down the creek.
More dash than cash.
Champagne taste, beer budget.
> Amusing...
>
> But it makes me even happier because it means more smart people are buying
> Avalons, probably for many of the same good reasons we did, and the
> experience and testing base for the car will be much larger.
>
Don't get excited, Granpa. Over here there are far more Lexus than
Avalon. There are, however, a few retirement homes in the area.
> It also means there will be more certified, experienced, competent Avalon
> technicians and mechanics and perhaps more Toyota dealerships as well, over
> the long haul.
>
?????
It doesn't take much to make this man happy...
> Driving cross-country under arduous conditions I'd much prefer to know I can
> almost always find a Toyota dealership, rather than having to search out a
> Lexus dealership or call for someone to come to me, if I have trouble with
> the car I can't fix myself.
>
You are DEAD RIGHT, having seen the complaints from Avalon owners.
It looks Avalon is THE model that doesn't partake in the legendary
Toyota reliability.
On the other hand, I've never seen a Lexus on a flatbed truck, unless
it's been in an accident.
I put some 90,000 miles on mine and it never broke down, and NOTHING
ever failed to work as when new. Oil and service, that's all.
I'd recommend such a car to any person of delicate age with a bad back
Tiglath
> On Dec 15, 4:59 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>
> > If we do buy a Lexus 460L, because of larger family needs and cross-country
> > trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an Avalon can provide,
> > we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in Hawai'i. It would be
> > gross overkill.
>
> > We'd position it at one of our places on the Mainland.
>
> Oh, brother.
>
> Dave,,, you should know better by now than to try to be specific about
> anything - it always ends badly.
>
> Your crowing about the Avalon has once again left you in the position
> of a topless dancer crashing a gay party.
>
<G>
D. Spencer Hines
Merlin insists on his own Avalon. He wants a Limited with all the bells and
whistles for his secret charms.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
----------------------------------------------------
2007 Toyota Avalon Reviews
Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
Driving Impressions
The '07 Toyota Avalon is perhaps best characterized by
what's missing: noise, vibration and harshness. The Avalon will never annoy
you. It offers a smooth, quiet ride. It always feels under-stressed and
quietly relaxed. Driving it is never demanding.
Like the rest of the car, the suspension is set up primarily for comfort.
The handling is extremely well balanced, and the rack-and-pinion steering
offers a good balance between road feel and easy steering, avoiding the
over-assisted vagaries common with large SUVs and American cars.
Driving hard on tight roads will induce some body roll (lean), yet the
Avalon Limited we drove held any reasonable line we cared to strike through
a corner, protesting only at careless tossing, and absorbing pavement
irregularities at the apex.
The Avalon is front-wheel drive, with front struts located by L-shaped lower
arms, and a multi-link/strut arrangement in the back. So it tends to squat
slightly coming out of corners, and pull through them from the front.
The Touring model is set up for sharper handling performance than the
others, with stiffer shock tuning, higher spring rates, and Michelin MXV4
tires on 17-inch wheels.
The Touring has quicker reflexes, at the expense of some ride comfort and
noise control, and delivers a secure, on-center feeling through the
twisties. If you're not sure which suspension you want, then you probably
don't want the Touring.
Avalon's engine and transmission deliver unobtrusive performance. Fifth
gear is a relaxed overdrive, allowing the engine to loaf on the highway.
Driving over steep mountain passes with some determination, we appreciated
all 268 horsepower, backed by an automatic that knows when to shift.
In tighter sections, where our speeds were in the 30 to 50 mph range, we
decided to operate the transmission in manual mode, tap-shifting from second
to third gear and revving up and down through the corners.
The V6 pulls strongly at higher rpm and right up to the 6200 rpm redline,
but it remains remarkably quiet in the process.
It's a double overhead-cam unit with four valves per cylinder and an
aluminum block and heads.
A short stroke dimension means that it likes to rev, abetted by very low
reciprocating mass and a very-low-friction cam gear. These are the
characteristics of a long-life, efficient everyday engine with exceptional
passing power.
Our forays into canyon carving were not perfectly consistent
with this type of design, and yet they were not frustrating, either. The
horsepower is there, and the transmission will allow you to access it. Add
the tighter suspension of the Touring model and the Avalon is decidedly
sporty. But that's not what the Avalon is about.
The Avalon is a car that makes everyday use a pleasant experience. It's a
versatile cruiser and around-town chariot that shortens long trips,
thoughtfully insulating occupants from the jagged loose ends of the real
world. That's been Avalon's mission since its debut in '94, and with
changes since then it has only gotten better.
The V6 is a smooth power plant, and its very low levels of vibration are no
accident; an active control mount cancels low-rpm engine motions.
Transmission upshifts are governed by third-generation electronic software
with specific engine mount tuning to reduce shift shock.
Part-throttle upshifts are barely noticeable.
All this, and EPA city/highway fuel efficiency ratings of 22/31 mpg.
Optional Vehicle Stability Control, Traction Control, and
Brake Assist are dynamic systems that remain in the background until a
problem is detected. VSC helps keep a skidding vehicle on the road by
instantly braking one or more wheels, individually. We were able to activate
the traction control by hammering the throttle from a standing start, with
one front wheel on pavement and the other on a sandy shoulder. Sure enough,
no wheelspin, just a smooth departure. We're told it works on wet surfaces
and snow-covered roads, anyplace with mixed friction driving surfaces.
Brake Assist steps in when you stab the brakes, as if you
were in a panic stop. Very hard, sharp application of the brake pedal
automatically triggers full braking response from the anti-lock brakes
(ABS). Brake Assist helps the driver stop the car as quickly as possible,
even if the driver mistakenly relaxes pressure on the brake pedal.
William Black
"tankfixer" <nu...@null.org> wrote in message
news:MPG.21cdcb274...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
> the rain with the electrics shorted out....
That hasn't been a problem for well over a quarter of a century now.
The major problem with cars in the UK these days is that the electric 'toys'
break down in our weather conditions.
Damp winters with temperatures just above freezing for longish periods
coupled with a system that scatters corrosive salt on the roads if the temp
does drop below freezing kills clever electrical gadgets at a hell of a
rate.
Motorcycle 'black boxes' seem to die very quickly here...
If the switches on the door courtesy lights last more than a couple of years
you're doing well...
William Black
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:048947fa-ac4b-486d...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> Ah, but it runs...
>> Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
>> the rain with the electrics shorted out....
>
> That is a lie! My MGA's electrics would short out in dry weather.
When was the MG 'A' last manufactured?
William Black
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:f8f1658a-876e-446a...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
> It's just the high end Toyota. Nothing more, nothing less. If
> people want to feel superior, they buy a Lexus.
Don't you just love the idea of people who buy a car because the want to
feel superior...
William Black
> If we do buy a Lexus 460L, because of larger family needs and
> cross-country trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an
> Avalon can provide, we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in
> Hawai'i. It would be gross overkill.
Good grief man. you're living on a small tropical island.
I'd imagine the best car for you would be something very small with a low
carbon footprint.
The temptation is to say you should get an elderly jeep because the long
life cycle with reduce the carbon footprint, but you're in denial about
global warming, so the obvious answer is either a Ford Ka (assuming they
sell them in the USA) or a biggish motorcycle...
D. Spencer Hines
Yes, they'll certainly keep their horses as well.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
-------------------------------------------------------
2007 Toyota Avalon Reviews
Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
Summary & Specs
The Toyota Avalon may be the best full-size sedan you can buy.
Completely redesigned less than two years ago, the Avalon takes full
advantage of the latest technologies in safety, efficiency, and performance.
It's roomy, smooth and comfortable.
NewCarTestDrive.com correspondent John Stewart filed this report from
Carmel-by-the-Sea, California.
--------------------------------------------------------
Here are the specs for the 2008 Avalon Limited Sedan. John Stewart was
writing about the 2007 version.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
--------------------------------------------------------
2008 Toyota Avalon Limited Sedan Specifications
Quick Specs Limited FWD 4-Dr Sedan V6
Bodystyles: 4-Dr Sedan;
Engines: 3.5L V 6;
Transmissions: 6 Speed Semi-Automatic;
Drivetrains: Front Wheel Drive;
2008 Toyota Avalon Performance & Efficiency Standard Features
- 3,456 cc 3.5 liters V 6 front engine with 94.0 mm
bore, 83.1 mm stroke, 10.8 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable
valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder 2GR-FE
- Unleaded fuel 87
- Multi-point injection fuel system
- 18.5 gallon main unleaded fuel tank 15.4
- Power: 200 kW , 268 HP SAE @ 6,200 rpm; 248 ft lb,
336 Nm @ 4,700 rpm
2008 Toyota Avalon Handling, Ride & Braking Standard Features
- Four-wheel ABS
- Four disc brakes including two ventilated discs
- Electronic brake distribution
- Immobilizer
- Fullsize alloy rim internal spare wheel
- Strut front suspension independent with stabilizer
bar and coil springs, multi-link rear suspension independent with stabilizer
bar and coil springs
2008 Toyota Avalon Exterior & Aerodynamics Standard Features
- Body color front and rear bumpers
- Chrome/bright trim around side windows
- Day time running lights
- Driver and passenger power heated body color door
mirrors with automatic operation indicator lights
- External dimensions: overall length (inches):
197.6, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall height (inches): 58.5,
wheelbase (inches): 111.0, front track (inches): 62.2, rear track (inches):
61.6 and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 36.9
- Front fog lights
- Complex surface lens Xenon bulb headlights
- Luxury trim wood & leather on gearknob,
wood/woodgrain on doors and wood/woodgrain on dashboard
- Mica paint
- Fixed rear window with defogger
- Glass electric front sunroof
- Tinted glass on cabin
- Weights: curb weight (lbs) 3,610
- Windshield wipers with automatic intermittent wipe
and rain sensor
2008 Toyota Avalon Interior Standard Features
- 12v power outlet: front and 2
- Air conditioning with climate control and rear
outlet 2
- Diversity antenna
- Peripheral anti-theft protection
- JBL RDS audio system with AM/FM, Disc Autochanger
and six-disc remote changer CD player reads MP3
- Automatic drive indicator on dashboard
- Cargo area light
- Cargo capacity: all seats in place (cu ft): 14.4
- Cellular phone Bluetooth
- Clock
- Coming home device
- Compass
- Computer with average fuel consumption and range
for remaining fuel
- Full dashboard console, full floor console with
covered storage box, partial overhead console with covered storage box
- Delayed/fade courtesy lights
- Cruise control
- Front seats and rear seats cup holders fixed
- Door ajar warning
- Door pockets/bins for driver seat, passenger seat
and rear seats
- External temperature
- Driver front airbag with multi-stage deployment,
passenger front airbag with occupant sensors and multi-stage deployment
- Bucket heated electrically adjustable driver
ventilated seat with height adjustment, lumbar adjustment, thigh support,
five adjustments and tilt adjustment, bucket electrically adjustable
passenger ventilated seat with two adjustments
- Height adjustable 3-point reel front seat belts on
driver seat and passenger seat with pre-tensioners
- Front seat center armrest
- Garage door opener
- Two height adjustable head restraints on front
seats, three height adjustable head restraints on rear seats
- Headlight control with time delay switch-off and
dusk sensor automatic
- Illuminated entry system
- Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches):
38.9, rear headroom (inches): 37.5, front hip room (inches): 55.8, rear hip
room (inches): 56.2, front leg room (inches): 41.3, rear leg room (inches):
40.9, front shoulder room (inches): 59.4, rear shoulder room (inches): 58.2
and interior volume (cu ft): 106.9
- Knee airbags driver
- Low tire pressure indicator
- Memorized adjustment with two settings on door
mirror position with four driver's seat positions
- Card key power locks speed sensing
- Power steering
- Front power windows with two one-touch, rear power
windows
- Front and rear reading lights
- 3-point reel rear seat belts on driver side,
passenger side and center side
- Rear seat center armrest with trunk access
- Three fixed bench front facing reclining rear
seats with zero adjustments
- Automatic operation rear view mirror
- Steering wheel mounted remote audio controls
- Remote fuel filler door release
- Remote control remote trunk/hatch release
- Front and rear side curtain airbag
- Front seat back storage
- Leather seat upholstery
- Seating: five seats
- Service interval indicator
- Front side airbag
- Smart card / smart key automatic, includes central
locking and includes ignition starter
- Twelve speaker(s) JBL
- Wood & leather multi-function steering wheel with
tilt adjustment and telescopic adjustment
- Tachometer
- Illuminated driver and passenger vanity mirror
- Ventilation system with micro filter
<http://www.automotive.com/2008/101/toyota/avalon/limited-sedan/990/specifications/index.html>
D. Spencer Hines
news:fk2jir$9lf$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "tankfixer" <nu...@null.org> wrote in message
> news:MPG.21cdcb274...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>
>> Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
>> the rain with the electrics shorted out....
>
> That hasn't been a problem for well over a quarter of a century now.
I remember that problem well on an MG we once owned.
> The major problem with cars in the UK these days is that the electric
> 'toys' break down in our weather conditions.
>
> Damp winters with temperatures just above freezing for longish periods
> coupled with a system that scatters corrosive salt on the roads if the
> temp does drop below freezing kills clever electrical gadgets at a hell
> of a rate.
And after all these years you still haven't learned how to solve the
problems?
William Black
They probably have.
Rolls Royce don't have a problem, Ford do.
I imagine that suitable weatherproofing is expensive.
It's an environment where ISO-1 cases don't last through a winter and ISO-3
need looking at every couple of years.
Jack Linthicum
Cross country trips? You are aware that Oahu is an island? Or have
you moved?
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in messagenews:AZZ8j.63$7c7...@eagle.america.net...
It rains a lot in season on Oahu, mauka showers moving makai (Mountain
showers going towards the sea) is a mantra for weather forecasts then.
Jeeps are for tourists, as are most convertibles.
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
Mine was a 1960 and it's MGA not MG 'A', the following mode, that
would have been the death blow without the emissions standards, was
the MGB. Leading to the famous line to tell if someone was drunk, say
"MGB GT" three times.
D. Spencer Hines
more during the rest of the Winter and into the Spring.
But the showers are frequently makai moving mauka...
Much heavier on occasions...
At sea they would be called squalls.
We've had several today.
Squall -- Interesting Word:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squall>
I've often driven cross-county on the Mainland and expect to do so even more
often in the future -- carrying more people.
We don't stay here all year.
We have hideaways on the Mainland...
And children -- as well as good friends.
So we need cars in various places.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:80cefca6-a58d-4f64...@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
D. Spencer Hines
World Report
<http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2008-Toyota-Avalon/>
Pogue Tiglath, The Sorry-Arsed Spaniard, loaded up with Viagra for the
weekend, will no doubt be sorely disappointed.
How Sweet It Is!
D. Spencer Hines
World Report
<http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2008-Toyota-Avalon/>
Jose Suriol, alias "Tiglath", The Sorry-Arsed Spaniard, loaded up with
Viagra for the weekend, will no doubt be sorely disappointed.
How Sweet It Is!
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:f8f1658a-876e-446a...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
>
> > It's just the high end Toyota. Nothing more, nothing less. If
> > people want to feel superior, they buy a Lexus.
>
> Don't you just love the idea of people who buy a car because the want to
> feel superior...
Gotta park something at the McMansions. It's good to have a nice
car to live in after the foreclosure.
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
You can drive in circles around the island.....
William Black
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:80cefca6-a58d-4f64...@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> wrote:
>> "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in
>> messagenews:AZZ8j.63$7c7...@eagle.america.net...
>>
>> > If we do buy a Lexus 460L, because of larger family needs and
>> > cross-country trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an
>> > Avalon can provide, we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in
>> > Hawai'i. It would be gross overkill.
>>
>> Good grief man. you're living on a small tropical island.
>>
>> I'd imagine the best car for you would be something very small with a low
>> carbon footprint.
>>
>> The temptation is to say you should get an elderly jeep because the long
>> life cycle with reduce the carbon footprint, but you're in denial about
>> global warming, so the obvious answer is either a Ford Ka (assuming they
>> sell them in the USA) or a biggish motorcycle...
>>
>
> showers going towards the sea) is a mantra for weather forecasts then.
> Jeeps are for tourists, as are most convertibles.
So it's either a Ford Ka or one of those small Japanese hard top jeeps with
the 1.6 litre petrol engines.
I can't honestly see any justification for anything bigger or more
sophisticated.
It's a small island and he doesn't have a job to go to in the mornings.
Anything bigger and more sophisticated is just a waste of money.
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> "tankfixer" <n...@null.org> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.21cdcb274...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>
> > Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
> > the rain with the electrics shorted out....
>
> That hasn't been a problem for well over a quarter of a century now.
But, no regular British cars have been sold in the US in that
time. Only Jaguars and up until the baby Beemer Coopers arrived a few
years ago.
Andrew Chaplin
> On Dec 16, 2:20 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:048947fa-ac4b-486d...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> When was the MG 'A' last manufactured?
>
> would have been the death blow without the emissions standards, was
> the MGB. Leading to the famous line to tell if someone was drunk, say
> "MGB GT" three times.
IIRC, the thing that killed the MGB in North America was the impact standards.
The silly rubber baby buggy bumpers gave it a face -- and a behind -- that no
one could love. Having to go to three wipers because of the narrow windscreen
was equally silly.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
Jack Linthicum
Really? I thought the stretch of 930 from Waialua to Kaena Point was
not for vehicles.
http://www.fmschmitt.com/travels/Hawaii/Kaena-Point/index.html
William Black
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:694c2b7e-ec0d-4137...@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Dec 16, 2:19 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>> "tankfixer" <n...@null.org> wrote in message
>>
>> news:MPG.21cdcb274...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>>
>> > Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
>> > the rain with the electrics shorted out....
>>
>> That hasn't been a problem for well over a quarter of a century now.
>
> But, no regular British cars have been sold in the US in that
> time. Only Jaguars and up until the baby Beemer Coopers arrived a few
> years ago.
But in most of the world the big car manufacturers make a more or less a
standard range of cars.
The big 'people carrier' type thing is common everywhere and I think the
engines for the Ford is made in the UK.
I know you're not allowed to buy Land Rover Defenders (well, your army
does, but civilians aren't allowed them) because of some spurious safety
issue, despite it being just about the safest car on the road anywhere,
and is even made by Ford...
But Range Rovers are allowed there, and, I think. LR Discoverys are as well.
The big car manufacturers are global. The lamp clusters are probably made
in Korea, the engines in a European plant, the body shell somewhere local.
The things are bolted together locally and a local suspension setting put in
for local conditions, but I imagine a big Ford or GM car is much the same
everywhere.
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
The amount of money spent on TV advertising for the Land Rover must
be several times the sales returns. Off-road, ie backing over your
neighbor's mail box, is very popular here. The prototypical small
blonde woman driving a full-sized Hummer while talking on the phone is
a cliche. It is an exercise to get my "normal" sized car, a Subaru,
out of a parking space with the great walls of SUV on either side.
deem...@aol.com
Could be. We drove around the east coast to the North Shore and
then cut down by the Dole Plantation. I'll amend to "you can drive in
circles almost around the island..."
William Black
"Andrew Chaplin" <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:45idnStYFLcusvja...@giganews.com...
> "Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:fc4e4aec-551b-41ce...@q3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 16, 2:20 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>> news:048947fa-ac4b-486d...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > That is a lie! My MGA's electrics would short out in dry weather.
>>>
>>> When was the MG 'A' last manufactured?
>>
>> Mine was a 1960 and it's MGA not MG 'A', the following mode, that
>> would have been the death blow without the emissions standards, was
>> the MGB. Leading to the famous line to tell if someone was drunk, say
>> "MGB GT" three times.
>
> IIRC, the thing that killed the MGB in North America was the impact
> standards. The silly rubber baby buggy bumpers gave it a face -- and a
> behind -- that no one could love. Having to go to three wipers because of
> the narrow windscreen was equally silly.
I used to work with a guy who ran one of those.
It went through tires even faster than that other late 'seventies death
trap, the Honda CB 900...
It was cold draughty unreliable and ugly and the best indicator of exactly
what was wrong with British industry at the time.
They were more interested in selling second 'hobby' cars to rich Americans
than to ordinary people in the UK. The cars that were sold to domestic
customers either designed to fall to bits in half a decade or were so
difficult to drive that you needed to employ a chauffer to get safely from A
to B.
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:694c2b7e-ec0d-4137...@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Dec 16, 2:19 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >> "tankfixer" <n...@null.org> wrote in message
>
> >>news:MPG.21cdcb274...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>
> >> > Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
> >> > the rain with the electrics shorted out....
>
> >> That hasn't been a problem for well over a quarter of a century now.
>
> > But, no regular British cars have been sold in the US in that
> > time. Only Jaguars and up until the baby Beemer Coopers arrived a few
> > years ago.
>
> But in most of the world the big car manufacturers make a more or less a
> standard range of cars.
>
> The big 'people carrier' type thing is common everywhere and I think the
> engines for the Ford is made in the UK.
>
> I know you're not allowed to buy Land Rover Defenders (well, your army
> does, but civilians aren't allowed them) because of some spurious safety
> issue, despite it being just about the safest car on the road anywhere,
> and is even made by Ford...
>
> But Range Rovers are allowed there, and, I think. LR Discoverys are as well.
The little LR starts at about 35K, which is the same as the Jaquar
X. That puts LRs in the same class...pricewise...as Jaguars. The Mini
Coopers are the least expensive Brit cars, but they're quite over-
priced. Their base is a bit over 20K, but i'd bet it would be hard to
buy one for under 30.
>
> The big car manufacturers are global. The lamp clusters are probably made
> in Korea, the engines in a European plant, the body shell somewhere local.
>
> The things are bolted together locally and a local suspension setting put in
> for local conditions, but I imagine a big Ford or GM car is much the same
> everywhere.
True, most Japanese cars in the US are as American as any GM or
Ford. I think the only ones still imported from Japan are the higher
end sports cars. Most Accords, Civics, Camrys, Avalons, Corollas,
Sentras, Altimas, etc are all built over here. Components vary, but a
lot of them are US-made, too.
William Black
>
> The amount of money spent on TV advertising for the Land Rover must
> be several times the sales returns.
It's owned by Ford, who want to sell them off.
Tata want to buy them but the North American dealers, like the Jaguar
dealers, don't want the company to be Indian owned as they feel it will
make the brand seem cheap.
So Ford are obviously looking for a US buyer.
I have to add that the Unions and management of both brands in the UK have
announced that they'd be delighted with a Tata buy-out as Tata have a very
good reputation in both brand development and staff relations.
Of course this comes the week after the almost overtly rascist letter from
'Orient Express Hotels' to the Tata Group over their take-over bid.
Off-road, ie backing over your
> neighbor's mail box, is very popular here. The prototypical small
> blonde woman driving a full-sized Hummer while talking on the phone is
> a cliche. It is an exercise to get my "normal" sized car, a Subaru,
> out of a parking space with the great walls of SUV on either side.
I was under the impression that the full sized proper 'Hummer' was no longer
sold in the USA and it was a clever body job built on a 'Suburban' with all
the compromises that implies for cross country performance.
I'd hate to have to maintain that rather complex hydraulic reduction drive
to each hub on a domestic car budget...
Jack Linthicum
Most of the islands have those little quirks, Hawaii, IIRC is the only
one you can really circle. An example of how Americanized Hawaii has
become are the directions East and West being used instead of Diamond
Head and Ewa.
William Black
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:16c6ecb7-6f95-40a1...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
The little LR is, I'm afraid, not terribly good.
The proper one isn't sold there.
The big ones are as good as just about anything else.
The Range Rover is probably better than everything else, but cost a hell of
a lot.
On the other hand you can buy them cheap after they're a decade or so old.
As they've got an aluminium body shell and a proper chassis they last a long
time, but the rear tail-gate is steel and ofthen needs replacing on old
ones.
Lots of people here run them as second cars for pulling caravans or going
camping.
The Mini
> Coopers are the least expensive Brit cars, but they're quite over-
> priced. Their base is a bit over 20K, but i'd bet it would be hard to
> buy one for under 30.
They're also designed and made by BMW ...
Jack Linthicum
Maybe
Is It Made in America?
How Do You Tell Which Car Is More American?
Toyota brags in ads about its growing list of U.S. plants, yet it
imported 37 percent more cars from Japan last year to meet increased
demand. General Motors promotes its trucks in TV commercials to
strains of This Is Our Country but makes some of its best-known SUVs
in Mexico.
· Foreign cars made in the USA: Honda's Ohio-built Accord is 70
percent domestic parts. Toyota's Corolla is made in a California plant
alongside General Motors models.
· American cars made abroad: Ford's hit Fusion sedan is made in
Mexico; only half its parts are from the USA or Canada. GM pitches its
small HHR sport utility and giant Suburban straight at the American
market, but they, too, are built in Mexico. HHR has only 41 percent
American and Canadian parts.
· Famous American names and foreign owners: More than three-quarters
of the parts in Dodge's new Nitro SUV, which is assembled in Toledo,
Ohio, are American or Canadian. But the profits go to Germany because
Dodge is part of DaimlerChrysler. Chrysler Group, meanwhile, just
became the first major automaker to announce it's going to make small
cars for the U.S. market in China.
Arguably, the most American of all vehicles right now is Ford's
hulking 2007 Ford Expedition, a USA TODAY check of government
listings, manufacturers and dealer sales lots reveals. The SUV is
composed of 95 percent U.S. or Canadian parts, and it was made in
Michigan. Ford's new Edge crossover and the Crown Victoria sedan also
have 95 percent components, but both they and their corporate cousins
are assembled in Canada.
Detroit's Big 3 derived about 77 percent of its parts from U.S. and
Canadian factories from domestic sources. That compares with slightly
less than half for Japanese brands overall, according to the
Automotive Trade Policy Council, which represents the domestic
manufacturers in trade issues. Among Japanese brands, Honda had the
most domestic content at 59 percent.
HUMMER
In a way the Hummer H-1 is no longer available to the casual buyer,
but by using the fleet sales exceptions they can sell 6-800 a year.
And, the ones already sold are still on the highways.
Selling the H1s through fleet sales will allow AM General to not be
subjected to the new 2007 Tier 2 Bin 5 emission rules and regulations.
AM General has sufficient fleet orders to produce 600-800 units per
year right now. The fleet H1s will end up using the standard 6.5 L
Turbo Diesel that has been commonplace in GM and commercial
applications. Wiki
Andrew Chaplin
Other than the luxury marques -- Rolls, Bentley, Aston Martin, Jaguar and
Range Rover -- the British (the French too, but let's not go there) auto
manufacturers never built adequate support networks for their vehicles, nor
could they find allies to support them. The vehicles were more prone to
failure than North American ones and, when inevitably they did fail, odds were
that you would be miles from a dealer. (The luxury cars were nearly as prone,
but they were usually close to the dealer since their owners would fly if they
were going *that* far.)
deem...@aol.com
'bout time the little bastids assimilated :-)
deem...@aol.com
The US RR starts about 80K.
>
> On the other hand you can buy them cheap after they're a decade or so old.
>
> As they've got an aluminium body shell and a proper chassis they last a long
> time, but the rear tail-gate is steel and ofthen needs replacing on old
> ones.
>
> Lots of people here run them as second cars for pulling caravans or going
> camping.
>
> The Mini
>
> > Coopers are the least expensive Brit cars, but they're quite over-
> > priced. Their base is a bit over 20K, but i'd bet it would be hard to
> > buy one for under 30.
>
> They're also designed and made by BMW ...
>
> --
> William Black
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Jack Linthicum wrote:
> That is a lie! My MGA's electrics would short out in dry weather.
Ah, yes, those were the days..."The parts falling off this
vehicle are certified by British Leland to be of the highest
quality."
Which is not to say that I don't, at some masochistic level,
miss my old Triumph Spitfire (IV)...with it, driving was always
an adventure. One never quite knew what was going to leak,
short out, fall off, grind to a halt or sputter away when one
took it out. A fun little car, as long as you really didn't need
to get where you were going.
Deirdre
Jack Linthicum
Before I realized that the loss of electrics was due to the shorting
of the ground strap, which reached from the battery location behind
the driver to the engine, my "solution" was pounding on the hood. It
seemed to work, but scared any dates witless that the old "run out of
gas" dodge had an even more threatening back up.
Richard Casady
<ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:
>The vehicles were more prone to
>failure than North American ones and, when inevitably they did fail, odds were
>that you would be miles from a dealer.
Two words. Lucas electrics.
Casady
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:10:58 -0500, "Andrew Chaplin"
>
> >The vehicles were more prone to
> >failure than North American ones and, when inevitably they did fail, odds were
> >that you would be miles from a dealer.
>
> Two words. Lucas electrics.
>
> Casady
two more words Shoddy workmanship
Deirdre Sholto Douglas
Jack Linthicum wrote:
>
> On Dec 16, 10:58 am, Deirdre Sholto Douglas
> <finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> > Jack Linthicum wrote:
> > > That is a lie! My MGA's electrics would short out in dry weather.
> >
> > Ah, yes, those were the days..."The parts falling off this
> > vehicle are certified by British Leland to be of the highest
> > quality."
> >
> > Which is not to say that I don't, at some masochistic level,
> > miss my old Triumph Spitfire (IV)...with it, driving was always
> > an adventure. One never quite knew what was going to leak,
> > short out, fall off, grind to a halt or sputter away when one
> > took it out. A fun little car, as long as you really didn't need
> > to get where you were going.
> >
>
> Before I realized that the loss of electrics was due to the shorting
> of the ground strap, which reached from the battery location behind
> the driver to the engine, my "solution" was pounding on the hood. It
> seemed to work, but scared any dates witless that the old "run out of
> gas" dodge had an even more threatening back up.
Mine seemed to thrive on fuel and throttle issues and, like most
other owners of these beasts, there were a multitude of unor-
thodox solutions for "fixing" them...many of said "fixes" quite
alarming to those not In The Know.
Not a good vehicle for Chicago winters, very uncomfortable...but
for those three days a year when the weather was fair and the
car was actually running? Life was good indeed.
Deirdre
Andrew Chaplin
news:47654B1A...@sbcglobal.net...
My roommate in my last phase of artillery training had a Spitfire. It was fine
for roaring around to class and into town, but senseless when you consider two
young officers could not fit the kit they needed for a week's exercise into
it. (My 1972 Datsun 610 sedan could fit four officers, four sets of webbing,
four helmets, four rucksacks, two Fire Control Boards, Field Branch,
Artillery, Light (Ha!) and a director stand and head -- eminently more
practical.)
Tiglath
> Now, all the Knights of the Roundtable want an Avalon too.
>
> Yes, they'll certainly keep their horses as well.
Come back to earth, Grandpa.
>
> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> 2007 Toyota Avalon Reviews
>
> Satisfying, soothing, superbly detailed.
>
> Summary & Specs
>
> The Toyota Avalon may be the best full-size sedan you can buy.
>
> Completely redesigned less than two years ago, the Avalon takes full
> advantage of the latest technologies in safety, efficiency, and performance.
> It's roomy, smooth and comfortable.
>
> NewCarTestDrive.com correspondent John Stewart filed this report from
> Carmel-by-the-Sea, California.
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> Here are the specs for the 2008 Avalon Limited Sedan. John Stewart was
> writing about the 2007 version.
Granpa HInes has fallen in the furrow of his digging and can't get
up.
It's hilarious. Granpa boasts about the specifications of the Avalon
he does NOT have.
"[A] 2007 Toyota Avalon XLS is one of the cars I drive."
-- Granpa Hines boasted on September 6, 2007
(Probably the day he got it.)
The other car he drives is the station wagon from the Kennedy era we
all have seen.
Granpa Hines was three grand short to get the Avalon Limited
Edition.
He could hardly make the XLS with heavy borrowing from family and
friends.
The difference is not trivial. For instance Granpa Hines' Avalon
doesn't have the rain sensor of the Avalon Limited, standard in all
Lexus. It automatically works the wipers according to the amount of
rain. It is no gimmick; it's a very useful feature that gives the
driver one less chore to worry about, substantially increasing the
driver's SAFETY and COMFORT when it rains.
Likewise, Granpa Hines Avalon lacks the heated, powered, auto-dimming
outside mirrors with memory and turn signals of the Limited. Nice to
have, and a given in Lexus.
Ditto for the High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps with auto
leveling, auto on/off feature and Daytime Running Lights (DRL).
Contrary to what he suggests, Granpa Hines does NOT have the TOP
toyota model.
Same as I look at Avalons and laughs, Granpa Hines looks at Lexus and
weeps.
Admiral Hines would not approve... I hope he had other sons to make
him proud...
------------ Quarantine - Do Not Cross ---------------------------
>
> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> 2008 Toyota Avalon Limited Sedan Specifications
>
> Quick Specs Limited FWD 4-Dr Sedan V6
>
> Bodystyles: 4-Dr Sedan;
> Engines: 3.5L V 6;
> Transmissions: 6 Speed Semi-Automatic;
> Drivetrains: Front Wheel Drive;
>
> 2008 Toyota Avalon Performance & Efficiency Standard Features
>
> - 3,456 cc 3.5 liters V 6 front engine with 94.0 mm
> bore, 83.1 mm stroke, 10.8 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable
> valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder 2GR-FE
> - Unleaded fuel 87
> - Multi-point injection fuel system
> - 18.5 gallon main unleaded fuel tank 15.4
> - Power: 200 kW , 268 HP SAE @ 6,200 rpm; 248 ft lb,
> 336 Nm @ 4,700 rpm
>
> 2008 Toyota Avalon Handling, Ride & Braking Standard Features
>
> - Four-wheel ABS
> - Four disc brakes including two ventilated discs
> - Electronic brake distribution
> - Immobilizer
> - Fullsize alloy rim internal spare wheel
> - Strut front suspension independent with stabilizer
> bar and coil springs, multi-link rear suspension independent with stabilizer
> bar and coil springs
>
> 2008 Toyota Avalon Exterior & Aerodynamics Standard Features
>
> - Body color front and rear bumpers
> - Chrome/bright trim around side windows
> - Day time running lights
> - Driver and passenger power heated body color door
> mirrors with automatic operation indicator lights
> - External dimensions: overall length (inches):
> 197.6, overall width (inches): 72.8, overall height (inches): 58.5,
> wheelbase (inches): 111.0, front track (inches): 62.2, rear track (inches):
> 61.6 and curb to curb turning circle (feet): 36.9
> - Front fog lights
> - Complex surface lens Xenon bulb headlights
> - Luxury trim wood & leather on gearknob,
> wood/woodgrain on doors and wood/woodgrain on dashboard
> - Mica paint
> - Fixed rear window with defogger
> - Glass electric front sunroof
> - Tinted glass on cabin
> - Weights: curb weight (lbs) 3,610
> - Windshield wipers with automatic intermittent wipe
> and rain sensor
>
> 2008 Toyota Avalon Interior Standard Features
>
> - 12v power outlet: front and 2
> - Air conditioning with climate control and rear
> outlet 2
> - Diversity antenna
> - Peripheral anti-theft protection
> - JBL RDS audio system with AM/FM, Disc Autochanger
> and six-disc remote changer CD player reads MP3
> - Automatic drive indicator on dashboard
> - Cargo area light
> - Cargo capacity: all seats in place (cu ft): 14.4
> - Cellular phone Bluetooth
> - Clock
> - Coming home device
> - Compass
> - Computer with average fuel consumption and range
> for remaining fuel
> - Full dashboard console, full floor console with
> covered storage box, partial overhead console with covered storage box
> - Delayed/fade courtesy lights
> - Cruise control
> - Front seats and rear seats cup holders fixed
> - Door ajar warning
> - Door pockets/bins for driver seat, passenger seat
> and rear seats
> - External temperature
> - Driver front airbag with multi-stage deployment,
> passenger front airbag with occupant sensors and multi-stage deployment
> - Bucket heated electrically adjustable driver
> ventilated seat with height adjustment, lumbar adjustment, thigh support,
> five adjustments and tilt adjustment, bucket electrically adjustable
> passenger ventilated seat with two adjustments
> - Height adjustable 3-point reel front seat belts on
> driver seat and passenger seat with pre-tensioners
> - Front seat center armrest
> - Garage door opener
> - Two height adjustable head restraints on front
> seats, three height adjustable head restraints on rear seats
> - Headlight control with time delay switch-off and
> dusk sensor automatic
> - Illuminated entry system
> - Internal dimensions: front headroom (inches):
> 38.9, rear headroom (inches): 37.5, front hip room (inches): 55.8, rear hip
> room (inches): 56.2, front leg room (inches): 41.3, rear leg room (inches):
> 40.9, front shoulder room (inches): 59.4, rear shoulder room (inches): 58.2
> and interior volume (cu ft): 106.9
> - Knee airbags driver
> - Low tire pressure indicator
> - Memorized adjustment with two settings on door
> mirror position with four driver's seat positions
> - Card key power locks speed sensing
> - Power steering
> - Front power windows with two one-touch, rear power
> windows
> - Front and rear reading lights
> - 3-point reel rear seat belts on driver side,
> passenger side and center side
> - Rear seat center armrest with trunk access
> - Three fixed bench front facing reclining rear
> seats with zero adjustments
> - Automatic operation rear view mirror
> - Steering wheel mounted remote audio controls
> - Remote fuel filler door release
> - Remote control remote trunk/hatch release
> - Front and rear side curtain airbag
> - Front seat back storage
> - Leather seat upholstery
> - Seating: five seats
> - Service interval indicator
> - Front side airbag
> - Smart card / smart key automatic, includes central
> locking and includes ignition starter
> - Twelve speaker(s) JBL
> - Wood & leather multi-function steering wheel with
> tilt adjustment and telescopic adjustment
> - Tachometer
> - Illuminated driver and passenger vanity mirror
> - Ventilation system with micro filter
>
> <http://www.automotive.com/2008/101/toyota/avalon/limited-sedan/990/sp...>
Tiglath
wrote:
> On Dec 16, 2:28 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote in messagenews:AZZ8j.63$7c7...@eagle.america.net...
>
> > > If we do buy a Lexus 460L, because of larger family needs and
> > > cross-country trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an
> > > Avalon can provide, we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in
> > > Hawai'i. It would be gross overkill.
>
>
> > I'd imagine the best car for you would be something very small with a low
> > carbon footprint.
>
> > The temptation is to say you should get an elderly jeep because the long
> > life cycle with reduce the carbon footprint, but you're in denial about
> > global warming, so the obvious answer is either a Ford Ka (assuming they
> > sell them in the USA) or a biggish motorcycle...
>
> > William Black
>
> > I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> > Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> > I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> > All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> > Time for tea.
>
And... It's nice to be able to afford a rain sensor in a new car.
Pity.
Tiglath
> Yes, we have a good deal of rain now on O'ahu, in December, and we'll see
> more during the rest of the Winter and into the Spring.
>
> But the showers are frequently makai moving mauka...
>
> Much heavier on occasions...
>
> At sea they would be called squalls.
>
> We've had several today.
"Where is my rain sensor, God? "
"Three grand, three more grand; that's all I needed, God"
William Black
"Tiglath" <te...@tiglath.net> wrote in message
news:2388843b-ed43-40f5...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> And... It's nice to be able to afford a rain sensor in a new car.
>
Have you considered looking out of the window now and again...
D. Spencer Hines
Par for the course with William.
He makes the same mistake about Socialism.
For one thing, the island is not THAT small -- somewhat over 600 square
miles.
For the next thing, we often go places during morning and evening rush
hours.
There are many other reasons for driving a larger, more comfortable car on
this island of O'ahu.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fk3ai8$4d2$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> So it's either a Ford Ka or one of those small Japanese hard top jeeps
> with the 1.6 litre petrol engines.
>
> I can't honestly see any justification for anything bigger or more
> sophisticated.
>
> It's a small island and he doesn't have a job to go to in the mornings.
>
> Anything bigger and more sophisticated is just a waste of money.
>
> --
> William Black
Tiglath
> 2008 Toyota Avalon Ranked #1 Among Affordable Large Cars By U.S. News &
> World Report
>
> <http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2008-Toyota-Avalon/>
>
> Pogue Tiglath, The Sorry-Arsed Spaniard, loaded up with Viagra for the
> weekend, will no doubt be sorely disappointed.
>
> How Sweet It Is!
Indeed.
Granpa Hines posts again a review of the car he does NOT have.
However, it appears that the 2008 Avalon is not really worth having
according to the review Granpa posted because:
"With options, price can rival that of luxury cars."
Yes folks, you bring it up to standard and you have paid the price of
a Lexus but you are still driving a Toyota.
Great deal.
Tell us more Granpa about your choice automobile.
Gee, I understood when NoGall bragged about his SLK, that suppository-
shaped pocket rocket: it is still a Mercedes, and NoGall is not very
old, but I never thought I would see an old geezer brag about a
Toyota.
Especially to Lexus owners and up.
Right for Christmas.
God Bless the North Pole.
Tiglath
> 2008 Toyota Avalon Ranked #1 Among Affordable Large Cars By U.S. News &
> World Report
I understand, Grandpa. Got it.
Keyword: AFFORDABLE.
First, foremost, and paramount.
Pity about no rain sensor in wet Hawaii.
But you'll always have those genealogical trees to enjoy, instead.
"Something is something", said the bald man who found a comb.
> <http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2008-Toyota-Avalon/>
>
> Jose Suriol, alias "Tiglath", The Sorry-Arsed Spaniard, loaded up with
> Viagra for the weekend, will no doubt be sorely disappointed.
>
> How Sweet It Is!
>
> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
> Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Tiglath
wrote:
> On Dec 15, 6:59 pm, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If we do buy a Lexus 460L, because of larger family needs and cross-country
> > trips where we want even more comfort and luxury than an Avalon can provide,
> > we certainly wouldn't want to keep the 460L here in Hawai'i. It would be
> > gross overkill.
>
>
> > But I also want to make absolutely sure that certified, customer-savvy,
> > experienced Lexus technicians and mechanics are close by.
>
> > Tiglath says he sees many Avalons in the Greater Washington D.C.-Northern
> > Virginia-Maryland Megalopolis.
>
> > That makes him furious, prickly and irrational because he doesn't like the
> > way they look, as compared to his weak and lower-end, indeed bottom-end
> > pricepoint Prius.
>
> > Amusing...
>
> > But it makes me even happier because it means more smart people are buying
> > Avalons, probably for many of the same good reasons we did, and the
> > experience and testing base for the car will be much larger.
>
> > It also means there will be more certified, experienced, competent Avalon
> > technicians and mechanics and perhaps more Toyota dealerships as well, over
> > the long haul.
>
> > Driving cross-country under arduous conditions I'd much prefer to know I can
> > almost always find a Toyota dealership, rather than having to search out a
> > Lexus dealership or call for someone to come to me, if I have trouble with
> > the car I can't fix myself.
>
>
> > Lux et Veritas et Libertas
>
>
> Cross country trips? You are aware that Oahu is an island? Or have
> you moved?
He moves, but there is pain... lower back.
Mr. Hines HOPES that people who don't know him as well as we do, might
think he is a wealthy land owner with homes all over the place among
which he divides his time. Truth is Granpa is in Hawaii most of his
time and he can't even afford a top Toyota in his main residence, and
to even suggest, never mind saying it out and out, that this man would
have a Lexus 360L garaged somewhere in the "Mainland" for his
occasional visits is not only hilarious, it's downright Noveau Riche,
a status Granpa can only dream about.
Tiglath
The Spitfire was a head turner, and a death trap, but that's
irrelevant, you made it.
The TR6 was also great fun and great styling.
Jack Linthicum
<ab.chap...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote:
> "Deirdre Sholto Douglas" <finch.enter...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in messagenews:47654B1A...@sbcglobal.net...
One of my great memories of Russian language school in DC was a very
large (Marine?) Colonel who drove one of those Fiat 600s. The view of
him fixing something, sitting on a stool, like a boy playing with a
toy car. Later learned he regained the drinking title at the Moscow
embassy from some of the finest alcho-athletes in the Soyuz.
Renia
>
> "Tiglath" <te...@tiglath.net> wrote in message
> news:2388843b-ed43-40f5...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> And... It's nice to be able to afford a rain sensor in a new car.
>>
> Have you considered looking out of the window now and again...
>
Yeah, I've got a wonderful way of telling whether it's raining when I'm
driving. I see all these little dots all over the windscreen. :-)
Tiglath
> Very simplistic, chop-logic and wrong...
>
> Par for the course with William.
>
> He makes the same mistake about Socialism.
>
> For one thing, the island is not THAT small -- somewhat over 600 square
> miles.
>
> For the next thing, we often go places during morning and evening rush
> hours.
>
That's as far as Grandpa Hines takes "Joining the Workforce of our
Great Country."
He drives in rush-hour traffic listening to the Spittlespoons in the
crackling speakers of his no-name car stereo, and feels productive
enough to go back home and hit the bulk bourbon for the rest of the
day as he types here.
> There are many other reasons for driving a larger, more comfortable car on
> this island of O'ahu.
>
Yep, a trunk to fit a lawn mower and the hi-hipped look to take the
mind as far as possible from the shovel-ass look; quite enough of
that.
Tiglath
wrote:
> "Tiglath" <te...@tiglath.net> wrote in message
>
> news:2388843b-ed43-40f5...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > And... It's nice to be able to afford a rain sensor in a new car.
>
> Have you considered looking out of the window now and again...
>
Just think, Willie... Rain starts or gets heavier and you can
continue to pick your nose -- uninterrupted expedition -- without
having to reach for the wipers lever.... Just think....
Ditto for keeping a thumb up a Socialist ass...
Tiglath
> Sweet!
>
> Merlin insists on his own Avalon. He wants a Limited with all the bells and
> whistles for his secret charms.
>
Severely out of repertoire, for days now.
In addition to all the defeats of a Bush lover has has to suffer, he
now gets caught and ensnared bragging to the audience about a mid-trim
Toyota.
Not your decade, Grandpa.
D. Spencer Hines
How well I remember it.
DSH
"Andrew Chaplin" <ab.ch...@yourfinger.rogers.com> wrote in message
news:45idnStYFLcusvja...@giganews.com...
> IIRC, the thing that killed the MGB in North America was the impact
D. Spencer Hines
But...
How did the British ever get themselves into that sorry condition?
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fk3cq2$e2o$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>> IIRC, the thing that killed the MGB in North America was the impact
>> standards. The silly rubber baby buggy bumpers gave it a face -- and a
>> behind -- that no one could love. Having to go to three wipers because of
>> the narrow windscreen was equally silly.
>
D. Spencer Hines
Jose Suriol, Pogue Tiglath, sees big asses and suppositories in automobile
designs and shapes.
Sigmund Freud would have a field day with him....
But even loaded up with all that Viagra he still often can't get it up.
And his much younger, sexy wife -- the Russian -- is NOT happy with him.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
"Tiglath" <te...@tiglath.net> wrote in message
news:6fb11d53-78e0-4a9c...@y5g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Gee, I understood when NoGall bragged about his SLK, that suppository-
> shaped pocket rocket: it is still a Mercedes...
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> On Dec 16, 9:36 am, "deemsb...@aol.com" <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 16, 9:07 am, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> > wrote:
>
> > > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > >news:694c2b7e-ec0d-4137...@l1g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >> "tankfixer" <n...@null.org> wrote in message
>
> > > >>news:MPG.21cdcb274...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>
> > > >> > Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
> > > >> > the rain with the electrics shorted out....
>
> > > >> That hasn't been a problem for well over a quarter of a century now.
>
> > > > But, no regular British cars have been sold in the US in that
> > > > time. Only Jaguars and up until the baby Beemer Coopers arrived a few
> > > > years ago.
>
> > > But in most of the world the big car manufacturers make a more or less a
> > > standard range of cars.
>
> > > The big 'people carrier' type thing is common everywhere and I think the
> > > engines for the Ford is made in the UK.
>
> > > I know you're not allowed to buy Land Rover Defenders (well, your army
> > > does, but civilians aren't allowed them) because of some spurious safety
> > > issue, despite it being just about the safest car on the road anywhere,
> > > and is even made by Ford...
>
> > > But Range Rovers are allowed there, and, I think. LR Discoverys are as well.
>
> > The little LR starts at about 35K, which is the same as the Jaquar
> > Coopers are the least expensive Brit cars, but they're quite over-
> > priced. Their base is a bit over 20K, but i'd bet it would be hard to
> > buy one for under 30.
>
> > > in Korea, the engines in a European plant, the body shell somewhere local.
>
> > > The things are bolted together locally and a local suspension setting put in
> > > for local conditions, but I imagine a big Ford or GM car is much the same
> > > everywhere.
>
> > True, most Japanese cars in the US are as American as any GM or
> > Ford. I think the only ones still imported from Japan are the higher
> > end sports cars. Most Accords, Civics, Camrys, Avalons, Corollas,
> > Sentras, Altimas, etc are all built over here. Components vary, but a
> > lot of them are US-made, too.
>
> > > --
> > > William Black
>
> > > I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> > > Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> > > I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> > > All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> > > Time for tea.
>
>
> Is It Made in America?
> How Do You Tell Which Car Is More American?
>
> Toyota brags in ads about its growing list of U.S. plants, yet it
> imported 37 percent more cars from Japan last year to meet increased
> demand. General Motors promotes its trucks in TV commercials to
> strains of This Is Our Country but makes some of its best-known SUVs
> in Mexico.
>
> · Foreign cars made in the USA: Honda's Ohio-built Accord is 70
> percent domestic parts. Toyota's Corolla is made in a California plant
> alongside General Motors models.
>
> · American cars made abroad: Ford's hit Fusion sedan is made in
> Mexico; only half its parts are from the USA or Canada. GM pitches its
> small HHR sport utility and giant Suburban straight at the American
> market, but they, too, are built in Mexico. HHR has only 41 percent
> American and Canadian parts.
>
> · Famous American names and foreign owners: More than three-quarters
> of the parts in Dodge's new Nitro SUV, which is assembled in Toledo,
> Ohio, are American or Canadian. But the profits go to Germany because
> Dodge is part of DaimlerChrysler.
Not anymore. When was this article written?
Chrysler Group, meanwhile, just
> became the first major automaker to announce it's going to make small
> cars for the U.S. market in China.
>
> Arguably, the most American of all vehicles right now is Ford's
> hulking 2007 Ford Expedition, a USA TODAY check of government
> listings, manufacturers and dealer sales lots reveals. The SUV is
> composed of 95 percent U.S. or Canadian parts, and it was made in
> Michigan. Ford's new Edge crossover and the Crown Victoria sedan also
> have 95 percent components, but both they and their corporate cousins
> are assembled in Canada.
>
> Detroit's Big 3 derived about 77 percent of its parts from U.S. and
> Canadian factories from domestic sources. That compares with slightly
> less than half for Japanese brands overall, according to the
> Automotive Trade Policy Council, which represents the domestic
> manufacturers in trade issues. Among Japanese brands, Honda had the
> most domestic content at 59 percent.
Of course, because the Japanese are selling some vehicles that are
close to 100% foreign....which kind of brings the average down.
Nissan's content for their American assembled vehicles is fairly high,
also.
>
> HUMMER
>
> In a way the Hummer H-1 is no longer available to the casual buyer,
> but by using the fleet sales exceptions they can sell 6-800 a year.
> And, the ones already sold are still on the highways.
>
> Selling the H1s through fleet sales will allow AM General to not be
> subjected to the new 2007 Tier 2 Bin 5 emission rules and regulations.
> AM General has sufficient fleet orders to produce 600-800 units per
> year right now. The fleet H1s will end up using the standard 6.5 L
> Turbo Diesel that has been commonplace in GM and commercial
> applications. Wiki
True, but that doesn't change the fact that the H2 is a Suburban
and the H3 is the same as whatever the GM mid-sized SUV is these days
(too lazy to look it up).
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:7eaf409d-13f8-48e2...@q77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > The amount of money spent on TV advertising for the Land Rover must
> > be several times the sales returns.
>
> It's owned by Ford, who want to sell them off.
>
> Tata want to buy them but the North American dealers, like the Jaguar
> dealers, don't want the company to be Indian owned as they feel it will
> make the brand seem cheap.
>
> So Ford are obviously looking for a US buyer.
>
> I have to add that the Unions and management of both brands in the UK have
> announced that they'd be delighted with a Tata buy-out as Tata have a very
> good reputation in both brand development and staff relations.
>
> Of course this comes the week after the almost overtly rascist letter from
> 'Orient Express Hotels' to the Tata Group over their take-over bid.
>
> Off-road, ie backing over your
>
> > neighbor's mail box, is very popular here. The prototypical small
> > blonde woman driving a full-sized Hummer while talking on the phone is
> > a cliche. It is an exercise to get my "normal" sized car, a Subaru,
> > out of a parking space with the great walls of SUV on either side.
>
> I was under the impression that the full sized proper 'Hummer' was no longer
> sold in the USA and it was a clever body job built on a 'Suburban' with all
> the compromises that implies for cross country performance.
>
> I'd hate to have to maintain that rather complex hydraulic reduction drive
> to each hub on a domestic car budget...
The H2 is a Suburban with different sheet metal. None of these SUVs
are proper off-road vehicles. The off-roaders around here...there's a
large off-road area nearby...use Jeeps, Blazers, Broncos, and 4WD
pickups. You'll not see a Hummer, Suburban, Expedition, etc. Peope who
own those are afraid to scratch the paint.
Jack Linthicum
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-03-22-american-usat_N.htm
IE March 22, 2007
I would say the only true Hummer is the H-1, the others are sales
gimmicks. Like the Mercedes A Class.
D. Spencer Hines
The 2007 Avalon XLS has those features.
> ...auto on/off feature and Daytime Running Lights (DRL).
And those...
-------------------------------------------
<http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2008-Toyota-Avalon/?>
"USA Today adds that the Avalon is "[r]oomy, quick, pleasant; luxury without
ostentation or exhibitionism."
Bingo!
That's what we wanted.
"Most consider the Avalon's handling nimble and the overall ride both smooth
and solid. U.S. News reviewer Rick Newman finds that the Avalon's
"maneuverability hits a sweet spot, too: The car is sturdy and substantial
at cruising speeds, yet limber in parking lots and other tight spaces. It
feels big but only when you want it to."
"Additionally, a tidy turning circle makes the Avalon feel unexpectedly
nimble on tight city streets." [Edmunds]
Pogue Tiglath, Jose Suriol, is really sucking hind teat these days -- and
given his failures even with humongous doses of Viagra he may have to settle
for oral sex for quite some time now -- with Gloryholers.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
Tiglath
> Hilarious!
>
> Jose Suriol, Pogue Tiglath, sees big asses and suppositories in automobile
> designs and shapes.
>
> Sigmund Freud would have a field day with him....
>
> But even loaded up with all that Viagra he still often can't get it up.
>
> And his much younger, sexy wife -- the Russian -- is NOT happy with him.
>
You could say I am a leg an ass guy...
That's why the typical shovel-ass flat derrière sported by many if not
most women of the so-called "yellow" race is a right turn off for me.
It doesn't even qualify for a one-nighter, never mind dating.
Marriage is unthinkable -- God forbid!
Add to it that some unfortunate shovel-assed females have also a flat
chest and short legs and there you have a combination for which no
solution exists, chemical or otherwise. Rhino horn powder, Spanish
fly, plain old ethanol, wild horses won't drag this red-blooded male
or many others near a female of such description.
Big ass, ameliorating, consolating, compensating schemes are being
tried as we speak: Avalon.
Tiglath
> > ...heated, powered, auto-dimming outside mirrors...
>
> The 2007 Avalon XLS has those features.
>
> > ...auto on/off feature and Daytime Running Lights (DRL).
>
> And those...
No, no, no.
It won't do to chop the description of the feature.
The features describe include many sub-features, and unless they are
all present the car does NOT have the feature.
The feature I posted read:
"High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps with auto leveling, auto on/
off feature and Daytime Running Lights (DRL)"
The Avalon XLS does NOT have it. It has run of the mill halogen
lamps that are not auto leveling and have on/off feature and Daytime
Running Lights (DRL)
The difference is COST HID headlamps are BETTER and most costly. Too
costly for Grandpa Hines.
AND sticking like a sore thumb is the lack of the class-making rain
sensor in the Avalon XLS, which adds at least another $500 to the
cost, which means that when the rain is falling Granpa Hines is still
in the 20th century even when driving a 2007 model.
Nope, the Admiral would not approve...
Tiglath
> > ...heated, powered, auto-dimming outside mirrors...
>
> The 2007 Avalon XLS has those features.
>
No, no, no. The feature I posted read:
Dual heated color-keyed power outside mirrors with puddle lamps, turn
signal indicators, memory and auto-dimming feature. AND it is
EXCLUSIVE of the Limited Avalon. The XLS does not have it. It has
only some of the cheaper parts of it.
> > ...auto on/off feature and Daytime Running Lights (DRL).
>
> And those...
> -------------------------------------------
>
> <http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2008-Toyota-Avalon/?>
>
> "USA Today adds that the Avalon is "[r]oomy, quick, pleasant; luxury without
> ostentation or exhibitionism."
>
> Bingo!
>
> That's what we wanted.
>
> "Most consider the Avalon's handling nimble and the overall ride both smooth
> and solid. U.S. News reviewer Rick Newman finds that the Avalon's
> "maneuverability hits a sweet spot, too: The car is sturdy and substantial
> at cruising speeds, yet limber in parking lots and other tight spaces. It
> feels big but only when you want it to."
>
> "Additionally, a tidy turning circle makes the Avalon feel unexpectedly
> nimble on tight city streets." [Edmunds]
>
> Pogue Tiglath, Jose Suriol, is really sucking hind teat these days -- and
> given his failures even with humongous doses of Viagra he may have to settle
> for oral sex for quite some time now -- with Gloryholers.
>
A tidy turning circle? It is LARGER than that of the Lexus LS360,
even with the Avalon's SHORTER wheelbase.
It's embarrassing to mention. Obviously, the reviewer does not drive
an Avalon.
Grandpa. A seventy something with severe female beauty deficit, can't
credibly make fun of younger, luckier men in the sex department. You
are making the Fair Readers cringe.
D. Spencer Hines
best-built full-size sedan in the under-$40,000 price bracket, your search
should begin and end with the 2008 Toyota Avalon."
<http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/avalon/2008/review.html>
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Deus Vult
deem...@aol.com
But yuppies THINK they're Hummers......
Jack Linthicum
All the Yuppies are dead, the Hummer market is the 105 pound housewife.
Paul J Gans
><deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:f8f1658a-876e-446a...@j20g2000hsi.googlegroups.com...
>> It's just the high end Toyota. Nothing more, nothing less. If
>> people want to feel superior, they buy a Lexus.
>Don't you just love the idea of people who buy a car because the want to
>feel superior...
That's "need to feel superior"...
:-)
--
--- Paul J. Gans
Paul J Gans
>"Tiglath" <te...@tiglath.net> wrote in message
>news:2388843b-ed43-40f5...@t1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> And... It's nice to be able to afford a rain sensor in a new car.
>>
>Have you considered looking out of the window now and again...
While driving? Americans would lose track of the plot
of the movie they are watching on the dashboard TV.
Tiglath
> "The price of entry may be high, but if you're looking for the most refined,
> best-built full-size sedan in the under-$40,000 price bracket, your search
> should begin and end with the 2008 Toyota Avalon."
>
> <http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/avalon/2008/review.html>
>
> DSH
Grandpa never stops drinking the Kool-Aid.
Don't get upset, Grandpa, but the Lexus ES350 starts WELL below
$40K. It is QUIETER than the Avalon, has a turning circle diameter
a few inches shorter, comes with HID headlamps that TURN in curves,
has: a FULL GLASS ROOF spanning almost the entire cabin. dynamic
radar cruise control (keeps distance automatically), parking assist
that lets you know the proximity to other vehicles, puddle lamps in
the outside mirrors, AND RAIN-SENSING WIPERS.
And... you drive in the Lexus cocoon of luxurious comfort. Wood and
leather trim, a 14-speaker Mark Levinson stereo system, backup camera
that allows to see what's behind you when you drive in reverse, and...
I'd better stop. I don't want to make you sick.
How can a car that DOES NOT have any of these features, the Avalon
XLS, be the best car under $40K.
Mr. HInes credulity is astonishing, he not only belief readily people
who transparently cook the books to go to war, he falls pray to Toyota
salesman like the sparrow to the hawk.
tankfixer
@drunkenbastards.org.ies says...
> a street legal M35-A2
> w/winch would be nice too. that would make a helluva of an RV.
Available soon out of the Ft Lewis DMRO
X40146
2320-01-077-1617
tankfixer
willia...@hotmail.co.uk says...
>
> "tankfixer" <nu...@null.org> wrote in message
>
> > Not like those oil leaking English car's stopped along side the road in
> > the rain with the electrics shorted out....
>
> That hasn't been a problem for well over a quarter of a century now.
>
> break down in our weather conditions.
>
> Damp winters with temperatures just above freezing for longish periods
> coupled with a system that scatters corrosive salt on the roads if the temp
> does drop below freezing kills clever electrical gadgets at a hell of a
> rate.
>
> Motorcycle 'black boxes' seem to die very quickly here...
>
> If the switches on the door courtesy lights last more than a couple of years
> you're doing well...
So you still use Lucas electrics I see....
D. Spencer Hines
best-built full-size sedan in the under-$40,000 price bracket, your search
should begin and end with the 2008 Toyota Avalon."
<http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/avalon/2008/review.html>
<http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2008-Toyota-Avalon/?>
"USA Today adds that the Avalon is "[r]oomy, quick, pleasant; luxury without
ostentation or exhibitionism."
Bingo!
That's what we wanted.
"Most consider the Avalon's handling nimble and the overall ride both smooth
and solid. U.S. News reviewer Rick Newman finds that the Avalon's
"maneuverability hits a sweet spot, too: The car is sturdy and substantial
at cruising speeds, yet limber in parking lots and other tight spaces. It
feels big but only when you want it to."
"Additionally, a tidy turning circle makes the Avalon feel unexpectedly
nimble on tight city streets." [Edmunds]
Pogue Tiglath, Jose Suriol, is really sucking hind teat these days -- and
given his failures even with humongous doses of Viagra and alcohol on the
weekends he may have to settle for oral sex for quite some time now -- with
Gloryholers.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Veni, Vidi, Calcitravi Asinum
William Black
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:I5e9j.84$7c7...@eagle.america.net...
> Fair Enough...
>
> But...
>
> How did the British ever get themselves into that sorry condition?
At the time both Ford and General Motors were building reliable, comfortable
and cheap motor cars in efficient plants. Between 1971 and 1985 I ran a
series of British built Fords, none of which ever leaked oil or suffered a
major mechanical breakdown.
The inevitable conclusion is that the management was crap.
William Black
The worst car I ever had for breakdowns was a Toyota I acquired in about
1986/7.
Everyone was busy telling me how wonderful they were.
The engine died twice, and I mean 'died' as in 'major rebuild required',
the electrical systems were about as weatherproof as blotting paper.
My current car has mainly Lucas electrical systems and hasn't had an
electrical breakdown since I bought it, although the courtesy light
switches have all died...
D. Spencer Hines
Did management think they could parlay off shoddy goods on consumers?
Union Work Rules & Practices?...
British Stodginess?
Did they play into this disaster?
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fk52hc$77l$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
William Black
> It sounds as if management completely misread the markets.
>
> Did management think they could parlay off shoddy goods on consumers?
I think they had complete contempt for their customers.
The management at that time were all 'decent chaps from decent schools who
had 'had a good war' '
They had forgotton that their new customers were the soldiers from WWII who
'weren't going to take it anymore'.
> Union Work Rules & Practices?...
Doubtful.
Ford and GM made good cars with the same unions and rules and practices.
The British owned companies usually refused to re-engineer until the process
machinary was faling to bits, which didn't help.
> British Stodginess?
You'll have to define that for me.
> Did they play into this disaster?
The senior management didn't care.
Whatever happened they would drop into other directorships provided by their
friends.
They ran the companies in exactly the way their fathers had and assumed
they'd go on forever building rubbish cars because people had always bought
their cars.
What they missed was the huge expansion of car ownership in the 'sixties
meant that the car owning public was a new one, and was made up of people
who weren't enthusiastic about changing their own oil, and didn't employ a
chauffer to do it for them.
They did nothing even when the press reported that the carpark at Longbridge
had 30% Fords parked in it...
Of course the same people who always had kept 'buying British', and the
government did so as well.
But the cars the government bought (Land Rovers, big Rover staff cars,
Daimler limos) weren't the cars ordinary people bought and so nobody in
their major customer base was complaining, just lots of people voting with
their wallets.
D. Spencer Hines
>
> "D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
> news:nyo9j.97$7c7...@eagle.america.net...
>> It sounds as if management completely misread the markets.
>>
>> Did management think they could parlay off shoddy goods on consumers?
>
> I think they had complete contempt for their customers.
Hmmmmm...
> The management at that time were all 'decent chaps from decent schools who
> had 'had a good war' '
Now they wanted to cultivate their OWN gardens and not work too hard at
it -- indulge their own passions in their private lives.
> They had forgotten that their new customers were the soldiers from WWII
> who 'weren't going to take it anymore'.
Yes, that's perceptive.
>> Union Work Rules & Practices?...
>
> Doubtful.
>
> Ford and GM made good cars with the same unions and rules and practices.
>
> The British owned companies usually refused to re-engineer until the
> process machinery was falling to bits, which didn't help.
Trying to cut costs, not reinvesting capital in the business and pulling out
too much in profits?
>> Did they play into this disaster?
>
> The senior management didn't care.
>
> Whatever happened they would drop into other directorships provided by
> their friends.
The British Class System alive and well. British Stodginess & The Old
School Tie.
> They ran the companies in exactly the way their fathers had and assumed
> they'd go on forever building rubbish cars because people had always
> bought their cars.
Yes, I know of American businesses that failed for the same reasons.
Creative Destruction.
> What they missed was the huge expansion of car ownership in the 'sixties
> meant that the car owning public was a new one, and was made up of people
> who weren't enthusiastic about changing their own oil, and didn't employ a
> chauffer to do it for them.
Perceptive.
> They did nothing even when the press reported that the carpark at
> Longbridge had 30% Fords parked in it...
>
> Of course the same people who always had kept 'buying British', and the
> government did so as well.
>
> But the cars the government bought (Land Rovers, big Rover staff cars,
> Daimler limos) weren't the cars ordinary people bought and so nobody in
> their major customer base was complaining, just lots of people voting
> with their wallets.
Good... Well that's one of the Great Benefits of Capitalism, people are
*allowed* to vote with their wallets.
William, I think you've done a pretty good job here of limning the
phenomenon -- yours is not the COMPLETE answer, that needs fleshing out --
but you've made a good start.
I think this is something you have a Good Understanding of, from your
perspective -- having lived, suffered and worked through it.