McCain's Medical History
D. Spencer Hines
The Voters have a Right To Know.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
-----------------------------------------------------
March 9, 2008
On the Campaign Trail, Few Mentions of McCain’s Bout With Melanoma
By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN, M.D.
The New York Times
Along with his signature bright white hair, the most striking aspects of
Senator John McCain’s physical appearance are his puffy left cheek and the
scar that runs down the back of his neck.
The marks are cosmetic reminders of the melanoma surgery he underwent in
August 2000. Mr. McCain, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee,
sometimes tells audiences that he has “more scars than Frankenstein.”
The operation was performed mainly to determine whether the melanoma, a
potentially fatal form of skin cancer, had spread from his left temple to a
key lymph node in his neck; a preliminary pathology test at the time showed
that it had not.
But because such a test cannot be definitive, the surgeons, with Mr. McCain’s
advance permission, removed the surrounding lymph nodes and part of the
parotid gland, which produces saliva, in the same operation, which lasted
five and a half hours.
The final pathology analysis showed no evidence of spread of the melanoma,
his staff said at the time. Mr. McCain, of Arizona, has said he did not need
chemotherapy or radiation.
In 1999, during Mr. McCain’s first race for president, he gave the public an
extraordinary look at his medical history — 1,500 pages of medical and
psychiatric records that were amassed as part of a United States Navy
project to gauge the health of former prisoners of war. This reporter, who
is a physician, interviewed the senator’s doctors in 1999 with his
permission.
But this time around, Mr. McCain has yet to make his full medical records or
his physicians available to reporters. At least three times since March
2007, campaign officials have told The New York Times that they would
provide the detailed information about his current state of health, but they
have not done so. The campaign now says it expects to release the
information in April.
So Mr. McCain’s prognosis for the recurrence of melanoma can be gauged only
by talking to experts not connected with his case. Those experts say his
prospects appear favorable.
The melanoma removed in 2000 was Stage IIa on a standard classification that
makes Stage IV the most serious. For Stage IIa melanoma, the survival rate
10 years after diagnosis is about 65 percent. But the outlook is much better
for patients like Mr. McCain, who have already survived more than seven
years.
For patients with a melanoma like Mr. McCain’s who remained free of the
disease for the first five years after diagnosis, the probability of
recurrence during the next five years was 14 percent and death 9 percent, a
study published in 1992 found.
No spread has been detected in the three or four dermatologic checkups Mr.
McCain has undergone each year since 2000, stress tests show no evidence of
heart disease, and “his doctors consider him in very good health,” his
campaign staff said in a recent statement.
The campaign also said Mr. McCain regularly took Vytorin to lower his
cholesterol, a baby aspirin to help prevent heart attacks, a multivitamin
and, occasionally, Claritin or Flonase for allergies.
Mr. McCain has proved resilient in the past, surviving serious injuries that
he sustained when his airplane was shot down over Vietnam and then when he
was captured, and sometimes tortured, as a prisoner of war for five and a
half years.
Now he is hoping to be the oldest man ever elected to a first term as
president. Even if the melanoma returns, he would not be the first sitting
president to have had cancer.
From what information Mr. McCain has disclosed, he is at increased risk for
melanoma and other skin cancers because of his medical history, fair skin
and prolonged sun exposure at a young age — long before the wide use of
sunscreen.
Since the 2008 campaign began, doctors not connected with Mr. McCain’s case
have expressed intense interest in the extent of the face and neck surgery
that he underwent on Aug. 19, 2000, at the Mayo Clinic Scottsdale in
Arizona.
Some of these doctors have noted in e-mail messages and in comments to
reporters that the surgery appeared to be so extensive that they were
surprised his melanoma was not more serious — perhaps Stage III, which would
give him a bleaker prognosis. These doctors said they would be surprised to
learn that such an operation would be performed without evidence that the
melanoma had spread.
But a number of melanoma experts said in interviews that such an operation
was understandable according to the medical standards of 2000 and that the
extensive surgery did not necessarily imply Stage III melanoma.
“It was not out of line,” said one of the experts, Dr. Richard L. Shapiro, a
melanoma surgeon at New York University. Dr. Shapiro added that he would
feel more comfortable in making a judgment if he saw a full pathology
report.
“It was a complex problem,” he said, “that was handled very skillfully by a
team of experts.”
Dr. Denis Cortese, Mayo Clinic’s president and chief executive, said in a
recent interview that experts in all three of the clinic’s sites discussed
details of Mr. McCain’s operation before it was performed.
In trying to discover whether the melanoma had spread from his temple, Mr.
McCain’s doctors made an incision down the side of his face and partly
removed the lymph nodes in his neck, the campaign said in the statement.
“No spread of melanoma was found in any of these locations,” the campaign
said. “However, this preventative procedure had cosmetic side effects for
Senator McCain, including swelling at the site of the incision. Thus, the
large scar and attendant swelling that Senator McCain has on the left side
of his face is not the result of the melanoma itself, which was small and
localized, but rather of the more extensive surgical procedure utilized out
of a high degree of caution.”
Mr. McCain has had four melanomas.
In 1993, he waited more than six months before seeking care after a Navy
doctor recommended that he consult a dermatologist for a lesion on his left
shoulder that turned out to be his first melanoma. It was excised and has
not recurred.
Pathology tests showed that the two other melanomas — detected on his upper
left arm in 2000 and on his nose in 2002 — were of the least dangerous kind,
in situ. In that type the malignant cells are confined to the outer layer of
skin.
The most serious melanoma was spotted on his temple in 2000 by the attending
physician at the United States Capitol after it had escaped the eye of Mr.
McCain’s personal physician at Mayo Clinic Scottsdale. (The Capitol
physician also spotted another melanoma that was in situ.)
The melanoma on Mr. McCain’s left temple was 2 centimeters in diameter and
0.22 centimeters deep, and was fully excised with wide margins, 2
centimeters in each direction, his campaign staff said.
To determine whether the cancer had spread to lymph nodes in his neck, the
Mayo doctors injected a radioactive dye into the melanoma in a procedure
known as a sentinel node biopsy hours before surgery. The doctors waited for
the dye to flow in the lymph fluid to the node in the neck to which the
cancer is statistically most likely to spread first.
Then they used a gamma counter — an instrument like a Geiger counter — to
identify the node, and removed it. Pathologists quickly froze the tissue
while Mr. McCain was on the operating table, looked at it through a
microscope and did not detect cancerous cells.
But this kind of biopsy is not 100 percent reliable for melanoma, partly
because the chemical stains that help pathologists identify breast and other
cancers in frozen sections do not work as well on melanomas. Also, the
cancer could have spread to a nonsentinel node.
So Mr. McCain’s surgeons, following what was then an accepted practice,
removed the surrounding nodes as part of the sentinel operation.
The operation to dissect the lymph nodes in the face and neck can be tricky
as the surgeon works to avoid injuring the nerve that controls various
facial movements and expressions.
In Mr. McCain’s case, the Mayo Clinic team of surgeons reconstructed the
skin and soft tissue overlying the left temple, face and neck by pulling up
skin to close the wound.
Doctors advise melanoma patients to have regular checkups to detect new skin
cancers and the spread of old ones because melanomas can be quirky. Mr.
McCain’s staff has not said what tests his doctors have used to monitor his
case.
Most recurrences of melanoma occur in the first few years after detection.
Survival figures for melanomas are often measured in 10-year periods rather
than the 5-year periods for many other cancers.
“With melanoma, a patient is never completely clear,” said Dr. Shapiro, the
N.Y.U. expert.
If melanomas do recur, standard treatment options are limited for many to
surgery and a difficult form of chemotherapy. The chances of long-term
survival diminish.
Now, on the campaign trail, Mr. McCain appears to take care to shield
himself from the sun, slathering on powerful sunscreen before outdoor
events, finding spots of shade from which to speak and sometimes wearing
baseball caps while outside.
Mr. McCain is occasionally asked on the campaign trail about his age. But he
is almost never asked about his health.
Michael Cooper contributed reporting.
a.spencer3
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:p_NAj.205$2e4....@eagle.america.net...
Why isn't anyone interested in the name of McCain's potential running mate?
Sounds pertinent.
Surreyman
D. Spencer Hines
> mate?
> Sounds pertinent.
>
> Surreyman
False Premise...
It is a subject of intense interest and debate among the cognoscenti -- and
now spreading to the poguenoscenti.
Tom Ridge
Mitt Romney
And several other State Governors' names have been aired in speculation.
Michael Steele, who is an African-American and former Lieutenant Governor of
Maryland might be another excellent candidate.
Plus several women.
Stay Tuned.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"a.spencer3" <a.spe...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:oSNAj.861$Ff4...@newsfe5-win.ntli.net...
Fred J. McCall
:
:Why isn't anyone interested in the name of McCain's potential running mate?
:Sounds pertinent.
:
People are. However, he just locked up the nomination and that
decision is still well down the road.
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
William Black
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:p_NAj.205$2e4....@eagle.america.net...
>
> The Voters have a Right To Know.
It's a bit late to be enquiring into the health of your geriatric nominee.
He's won it now, if he's falling to bits then you're just going to either
wait until he falls off his perch or live with whoever becomes his running
mate...
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
CJ Adams
>> Why isn't anyone interested in the name of McCain's potential running
>> mate?
>> Sounds pertinent.
Perhaps that's because John Nance Gardner (Vice President 1933-41) once
correctly described that position as being "not worth a bucket of warm
piss."
Cheers
CJA
William Black
"CJ Adams" <blue...@start.ca> wrote in message
news:tj7da5-...@news.start.ca...
Not this time.
If the USA is collectively deranged enough to elect a 72 year old man who
has led a very hard life and who has a history of skin cancer they'd better
choose the next in line pretty carefully...
Fred J. McCall
:
:It's a bit late to be enquiring into the health of your geriatric nominee.
:
:He's won it now, if he's falling to bits then you're just going to either
:wait until he falls off his perch or live with whoever becomes his running
:mate...
Not to worry. Senator McCain is known for his energy, routinely
working 20 hour days and wearing his staff out when they have to keep
up with him.
He's probably healthier than you or I are, Willie.
As for the Hindmost, he's just jealous to see the son of an admiral
who actually lived up to his family name, both in military service and
after it.
--
"Life passes. Honour remains."
-- Kurdish proverb
J A
> > Why isn't anyone interested in the name of McCain's potential running
> > mate?
> > Sounds pertinent.
>
> > Surreyman
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> False Premise...
>
> It is a subject of intense interest and debate among the cognoscenti -- and
> now spreading to the poguenoscenti.
>
> Tom Ridge
>
> Mitt Romney
>
> And several other State Governors' names have been aired in speculation.
John Hagee. Hands down McCain's best choice.
William Black
"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:0038t39hfiita87d9...@4ax.com...
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> :
> :It's a bit late to be enquiring into the health of your geriatric
> nominee.
> :
> :He's won it now, if he's falling to bits then you're just going to
> either
> :wait until he falls off his perch or live with whoever becomes his
> running
> :mate...
> :
>
> Not to worry. Senator McCain is known for his energy, routinely
> working 20 hour days and wearing his staff out when they have to keep
> up with him.
>
> He's probably healthier than you or I are, Willie.
He's 71 years of age.
If he keeps doing that he'll be dead soon.
> As for the Hindmost, he's just jealous to see the son of an admiral
> who actually lived up to his family name, both in military service and
> after it.
I rather like that insult...
biofuel...@gmail.com
> Serious Stuff...
>
> The Voters have a Right To Know.
>
> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> March 9, 2008
>
>
> By LAWRENCE K. ALTMAN, M.D.
> The New York Times
................................................................................
> Doctors advise melanoma patients to have regular checkups to detect new skin
> cancers and the spread of old ones because melanomas can be quirky. Mr.McCain's staff has not said what tests his doctors have used to monitor his
> case.
>
> Most recurrences of melanoma occur in the first few years after detection.
> Survival figures for melanomas are often measured in 10-year periods rather
> than the 5-year periods for many other cancers.
>
> "With melanoma, a patient is never completely clear," said Dr. Shapiro, the
> N.Y.U. expert.
>
> If melanomas do recur, standard treatment options are limited for many to
> surgery and a difficult form of chemotherapy. The chances of long-term
> survival diminish.
>
> Now, on the campaign trail, Mr.McCainappears to take care to shield
> himself from the sun, slathering on powerful sunscreen before outdoor
> events, finding spots of shade from which to speak and sometimes wearing
> baseball caps while outside.
>
> Mr.McCainis occasionally asked on the campaign trail about his age. But he
> is almost never asked about hishealth.
>
> Michael Cooper contributed reporting.
No wonder Huckabee is hanging on so hard. A nice VP spot could make
him president!
D. Spencer Hines
melanoma if he stays in the sun.”
William Galston -- cited as an Elections Expert at The Brookings Institution
by The Times of London 9 March 2008
D. Spencer Hines
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3511833.ece>
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
------------------------------------------------
"McCain has produced an advertisement comparing himself with Winston
Churchill. Just as Britain’s wartime leader vowed to “fight them on the
beaches” so McCain, accompanied by grainy film of him in pain as a young
prisoner of the North Vietnamese, promises: “We shall never surrender. They
will.”"
"The clip emphasises his patriotism. Karl Rove, former adviser to President
George W Bush, observed in The Wall Street Journal: “The interesting
intellectual phenomenon is the emergence of the ‘McCainicrats’ – Democrats
backing McCain . . . In three recent polls, almost twice as many Democrats
support Mr McCain as Republicans support Mr Obama.” An adviser to Obama
admitted that his candidate was running into opposition from the kind of
blue-collar workers who once supported Ronald Reagan, the Republican
president: “Right now, Barack is not connecting with the children of the
Reagan Democrats. That’s a real concern.”"
D. Spencer Hines
desert her for McCain in the general election, even if she is basking in
their support for now."
"The notorious 3am “red phone” television advertisement, suggesting that
only Clinton was fit to answer a crisis call at the White House in the
middle of the night, backfired last week when a poll revealed that most
viewers felt McCain was best qualified to pick up the phone."
<http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3511833.ece>
Fred J. McCall
:
:"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:news:0038t39hfiita87d9...@4ax.com...
:> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
:> :
:> :It's a bit late to be enquiring into the health of your geriatric
:> nominee.
:> :
:> :He's won it now, if he's falling to bits then you're just going to
:> either
:> :wait until he falls off his perch or live with whoever becomes his
:> running
:> :mate...
:> :
:>
:> Not to worry. Senator McCain is known for his energy, routinely
:> working 20 hour days and wearing his staff out when they have to keep
:> up with him.
:>
:> He's probably healthier than you or I are, Willie.
:
:He's 71 years of age.
:
:If he keeps doing that he'll be dead soon.
:
He's been doing it for decades. It doesn't seem to affect him.
Of course, we'll all be dead 'soon', for some variable definition of
'soon'.
:> As for the Hindmost, he's just jealous to see the son of an admiral
:> who actually lived up to his family name, both in military service and
:> after it.
:
:I rather like that insult...
Just stating the facts...
--
"Taught me how to shoot to kill.
A specialist with a deadly skill.
A skill I needed to have to be a survivor.
It's over now, or so they say.
But sometimes it don't work out that way.
And you're never the same when you've been under fire."
-- Huey Lewis and the News "Walking On A Thin Line"
Bert Hyman
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> He's 71 years of age.
>
> If he keeps doing that he'll be dead soon.
What?
If he keeps being 71, he should live forever.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
Paul J Gans
>Why isn't anyone interested in the name of McCain's potential running mate?
>Sounds pertinent.
Too early. Nobody has yet, including probably McCain, has
devoted much thought to it. It will, in part, depend on
who the Democrats nominate.
But don't worry. Plenty of attention will be paid later.
--
--- Paul J. Gans
D. Spencer Hines
Gans is far, far behind the Power Curve...
Demonstrating -- once again -- his abysmal misunderstanding of American
Politics and how the game is played in the 21st Century.
The McCain Campaign is already actively sifting through and vetting
potential Vice Presidential candidates.
I know of four prominent folks who are already filling out forms and
submitting other documents for consideration by Senator McCain and his close
advisors.
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
"Paul J Gans" <ga...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:fr26eu$pcp$1...@reader2.panix.com...
William Black
> Nonsense...
>
> Gans is far, far behind the Power Curve...
>
> Demonstrating -- once again -- his abysmal misunderstanding of American
> Politics and how the game is played in the 21st Century.
>
> The McCain Campaign is already actively sifting through and vetting
> potential Vice Presidential candidates.
>
> I know of four prominent folks who are already filling out forms and
> submitting other documents for consideration by Senator McCain and his
> close advisors.
It's to be hoped that they actually devoted some time to this at a much
earlier stage of the whole process.
Relying on someone who is 71 and about to embark on a strenuous programme to
last another eight years is, at best, optimistic...
TMOliver
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote...
>
> "D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote...
>> Nonsense...
>>
>> Gans is far, far behind the Power Curve...
>>
>> Demonstrating -- once again -- his abysmal misunderstanding of American
>> Politics and how the game is played in the 21st Century.
>>
>> The McCain Campaign is already actively sifting through and vetting
>> potential Vice Presidential candidates.
>>
>> I know of four prominent folks who are already filling out forms and
>> submitting other documents for consideration by Senator McCain and his
>> close advisors.
>
> It's to be hoped that they actually devoted some time to this at a much
> earlier stage of the whole process.
>
> Relying on someone who is 71 and about to embark on a strenuous programme
> to last another eight years is, at best, optimistic...
>
that CDR McCain may well envision a single four year term as an acceptable
substitute for a "Twilight Cruise". That makes his choice of a VP more
difficult, since it actually needs to be someone who can actually run for
President with a good shot at winning, a daunting challenge based on the
long term history of the Vice Presidency....
One brand of conventional wisdom suggests that whilst the Dems are locked
into internecine mud wrestling would be a good time to pick a running mate
and choices for several key Cabinet posts, (wo)men capable of heading off -
NOW - on the campaign trail to raise money, spirits, expectations and
morale. He's got to avoid the Quayle sort of mistake, and the danger always
presented by "retreads", either being over-rated or having too many enemies
(even among the fraternal Republican brotherhood). Add the margin of
danger for any suspected of harboring Neocon sympathies (even with the
massive appeal of stalwart defense of Israel rising from so many Rightest
Evangelicals.
Were I advising (Perish the thought!), I'd be looking for "New Men" (in the
sense of Caesar's elevating new faces to public office), young, vigorous,
aggressive and un-tarred by old brushes or tattered by previous conflicts.
TMO
William Black
"TMOliver" <tmoliv...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote in message
news:47d5621c$0$24109$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
>
> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote...
>>
>> "D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote...
>>> Nonsense...
>>>
>>> Gans is far, far behind the Power Curve...
>>>
>>> Demonstrating -- once again -- his abysmal misunderstanding of American
>>> Politics and how the game is played in the 21st Century.
>>>
>>> The McCain Campaign is already actively sifting through and vetting
>>> potential Vice Presidential candidates.
>>>
>>> I know of four prominent folks who are already filling out forms and
>>> submitting other documents for consideration by Senator McCain and his
>>> close advisors.
>>
>> It's to be hoped that they actually devoted some time to this at a much
>> earlier stage of the whole process.
>>
>> Relying on someone who is 71 and about to embark on a strenuous programme
>> to last another eight years is, at best, optimistic...
>>
> I would suspect, although crawling into the head of another ain't easy,
> that CDR McCain
I thought he retired a captain.
>
> Were I advising (Perish the thought!), I'd be looking for "New Men" (in
> the sense of Caesar's elevating new faces to public office), young,
> vigorous, aggressive and un-tarred by old brushes or tattered by previous
> conflicts.
Ms Rice...
You heard it here first...
D. Spencer Hines
eight years.
But he would be foolish to say that now -- although reporters will try to
get him to do so.
Only a fool makes himself an instant Lame Duck.
DSH
"William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fr30ln$grm$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
TMOliver
TMO
Dom
> Serious Stuff...
>
> The Voters have a Right To Know.
>
> DSH
>
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> March 9, 2008
>
> On the Campaign Trail, Few Mentions of McCain's Bout With Melanoma
In 2000, few mentioned president Cheney's heart problems!
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> "CJ Adams" <blueb...@start.ca> wrote in message
Have you heard about McCain's mothet?
To prove his claim that he's "got good genes", he campaigns with his
96-year-old mother, Roberta. A year ago, she travelled to France on
her own. When no car hire firm would give her a car, she bought a
Mercedes and drove herself around.
Soren Larsen
> In news:fr14go$vl5$1...@registered.motzarella.org "William Black"
> <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> He's 71 years of age.
>>
>> If he keeps doing that he'll be dead soon.
>
> What?
>
> If he keeps being 71, he should live forever.
Nah
It means he will not be 72.
--
History is not what it used to be.
D. Spencer Hines
DSH
"TMOliver" <tmoliv...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote in message
news:47d57afb$0$22832$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
D. Spencer Hines
DSH
"Dom" <DR...@teikyopost.edu> wrote in message
news:9dd004e3-dff4-4928...@u10g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
D. Spencer Hines
Good Story.
Tough Lady...although not exactly unpixillated today.
However his father and grandfather died at much younger ages -- his
grandfather at 61 in 1945 and his father at 70 in 1981.
DSH
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6b7a4e69-2f51-4001...@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Paul J Gans
>Ms Rice...
I don't think so. Her failings, especially in ignoring al
Qaeda before 9/11 would allow her to be torn apart either by
Obama or Mrs. Clinton.
Dom
>
> "... Karl Rove, former adviser to President
> George W Bush, observed in The Wall Street Journal: "The interesting
> backing McCain . . .
The scoundrel Rove is also a real joker. Democrats and Independents
widely supported McCain in 2000, as demonstrated by his blowout
victory over W in the New Hampshire primary. If the incompetents who
controlled the Republican establishment had not bought the nomination
for W in 2000 ($75 million had already been raised before W declared
his candidacy), McCain would have been elected president by a
landslide!
Paul J Gans
Not so. Cheney's party was adept at turning such questions
aside.
It is also what happened when both Cheney and Bush's service
history was brought up.
Of course, four years later there was no bit of Kerry's record
too small not to be trumpeted to the world.
Fred J. McCall
:
:"TMOliver" <tmoliv...@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote in message
:news:47d5621c$0$24109$4c36...@roadrunner.com...
:>
:> "William Black" <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote...
:>>
:>> "D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote...
:>>> Nonsense...
:>>>
:>>> Gans is far, far behind the Power Curve...
:>>>
:>>> Demonstrating -- once again -- his abysmal misunderstanding of American
:>>> Politics and how the game is played in the 21st Century.
:>>>
:>>> The McCain Campaign is already actively sifting through and vetting
:>>> potential Vice Presidential candidates.
:>>>
:>>> I know of four prominent folks who are already filling out forms and
:>>> submitting other documents for consideration by Senator McCain and his
:>>> close advisors.
:>>
:>> It's to be hoped that they actually devoted some time to this at a much
:>> earlier stage of the whole process.
:>>
:>> Relying on someone who is 71 and about to embark on a strenuous programme
:>> to last another eight years is, at best, optimistic...
:>>
:> I would suspect, although crawling into the head of another ain't easy,
:> that CDR McCain
:
:I thought he retired a captain.
:
He did.
:
:>
:> Were I advising (Perish the thought!), I'd be looking for "New Men" (in
:> the sense of Caesar's elevating new faces to public office), young,
:> vigorous, aggressive and un-tarred by old brushes or tattered by previous
:> conflicts.
:
:Ms Rice...
:
:You heard it here first...
:
Unlikely. She's already said pretty firmly that she's not interested
in that kind of job. I understand she'd like to be Baseball
Commissioner, though.
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
John Briggs
Rove smeared McCain at that time. Even if McCain is elected, Rove could
still go to jail.
--
John Briggs
Fred J. McCall
:
:Rove smeared McCain at that time. Even if McCain is elected, Rove could
:still go to jail.
:
For what?
When did the United States become the sort of banana republic where
people get jailed because of changes in government?
--
You are
What you do
When it counts.
Vince
> "John Briggs" <john.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> :
> :Rove smeared McCain at that time. Even if McCain is elected, Rove could
> :still go to jail.
> :
>
> For what?
>
> When did the United States become the sort of banana republic where
> people get jailed because of changes in government?
>
it's always been that way. Although no one is jailed "because of a
change in government" they get jailed because the incoming prosecutor
has a different set of priorities or legal interpretations.
Vince
John Cartmell
Fred J. McCall <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> When did the United States become the sort of banana republic where
> people get jailed because of changes in government?
When Presidents started to give pardons to their mates for political
misdemeanors.
--
John Cartmell jo...@finnybank.com 0845 006 8822 or 0161 969 9820
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.qercus.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
Jack Linthicum
> In article <3r6dt31eo0h8qfed7rves4rd87l0lv5...@4ax.com>,
> Fred J. McCall <fmcc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > When did the United States become the sort of banana republic where
> > people get jailed because of changes in government?
>
> When Presidents started to give pardons to their mates for political
> misdemeanors.
>
> --
> Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.qercus.com
> Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
The second Libby gets a pardon rather than a commuted sentence he is
on the witness stand with no ability to plead the fifth.
Fred J. McCall
:In article <3r6dt31eo0h8qfed7...@4ax.com>,
: Fred J. McCall <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:>
:> When did the United States become the sort of banana republic where
:> people get jailed because of changes in government?
:>
:
:When Presidents started to give pardons to their mates for political
:misdemeanors.
:
Uh, you're confused, Fartsmell. Rove didn't need a pardon, since they
couldn't find anything to charge him with. Rove also couldn't pardon
anyone.
This is just the sort of political warfare that will see the Democrats
thrown back out in short order if they're stupid enough to engage in
it.
--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson
John Cartmell
<fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Rove didn't need a pardon, since they couldn't find anything to charge him
> with. Rove also couldn't pardon anyone.
I didn't mention Rove. Your concern appears to indicate a guilty conscience.
Fred J. McCall
:In article <61tet3huiv9h586co...@4ax.com>, Fred J. McCall
:<fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:> Rove didn't need a pardon, since they couldn't find anything to charge him
:> with. Rove also couldn't pardon anyone.
:
:I didn't mention Rove. Your concern appears to indicate a guilty conscience.
:
Please look at the context of the thread, which you 'cleverly' elided.
Let me put the original statement I was responding to back for you:
"John Briggs" <john.b...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
:
:Rove smeared McCain at that time. Even if McCain is elected, Rove could
:still go to jail.
:
Do try to keep up...
--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates
Ray O'Hara
"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:8etbt3pv8s57er4ha...@4ax.com...
it was the NFL commissioner job she mentioned and she turned it down. a
move she probablly regrets now.
there is a lot to admire about condi rice, too bad she fell in with bad
company.