Lieutenant Bligh
Michael Mcneil
The Real Captain Bligh my come to life soon now that his log from the
Bounty has been put on display.
I wonder how many times he ordered whippings for instance. Considering
what happened next it seems strange to find the man demonised whilst
Christian has been sanctified.
Not that either were examples you would point your kids at these days;
both being in the slave trade as it were. The Bounty was engaged in
foraging for the slave owners.
Damn the lot of them!
Here is a little more on Bligh, based on a TV show some time back:
Harsh but healthy
Perhaps mistrustful of the former ship's master, the Admiralty did not
allocate the Bounty any Royal Marines – the shipboard police force – and
refused Bligh promotion to the full rank of captain: 'Captain Bligh' was
a lieutenant.
Bligh's relations with the crew were not helped by his health-oriented
shipboard regime; dancing was compulsory, and the diet included
sauerkraut and limejuice to protect the men from scurvy. Cook had
imposed similar policies but had qualities – diplomacy and physical
stature – which Bligh lacked.
The Bounty sailed in December 1787. Failing to round Cape Horn due to
bad weather, the ship took the longer eastward route. At Van Diemen's
Land (now Tasmania), Bligh traded ship's supplies with the indigenous
people for fruit and vegetables; this was healthier than the official
policy of buying dry food from European outposts but raised suspicions
that Bligh was embezzling ship's funds.
At the end of October 1788 the Bounty reached Tahiti. Within six weeks
the ship was loaded with breadfruit pods. However, earlier delays now
meant that the wind was against Bligh.
Rather than cut the voyage short, Bligh decided to remain on Tahiti
until the wind changed. Over the next four months, Bligh alternated
between studying the local culture and increasingly vain attempts to
assert naval discipline.
The crew were overwhelmed by the hospitality of the island and its
people – in particular its women, described by Christian as
'constitutionally votaries of Venus'.
Rebellion on-board
The Bounty sailed from Tahiti on 4 April 1789. Tahitian indiscipline had
taken its toll on Bligh, who frequently flew into rages with his crew –
and with Christian in particular.
Accused first of cowardice and then of theft, Christian prepared to jump
ship. Then, on 28 April he and four others confronted Bligh in his
cabin. Bligh and 18 loyal crew were cast off in the ship's launch.
The men aboard the Bounty first settled on the island of Tubuai but
after bloody skirmishes with the islanders, returned to Tahiti.
Christian and eight others, with 18 Tahitians, then left in search of an
uninhabited island. In January 1790 they reached Pitcairn Island. A
naval expedition in 1808 found the island inhabited by one mutineer
together with four Tahitian women and their children; all the other
settlers had died in a wave of inter-racial violence.
Descendants of the mutineers still live on Pitcairn.
http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/R/real_lives/bligh.html
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
William Black
"Michael Mcneil" <weathe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ee7de90ac21854910cd...@mygate.mailgate.org...
>
> The Real Captain Bligh my come to life soon now that his log from the
> Bounty has been put on display.
When referring to historical personages it is normal to give them the titles
and distinctions they held on their death.
So he's not 'Captain Bligh' but 'Admiral Sir William Bligh'.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
Barbeques on fire by chalets past the headland
I've watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off Newborough
All this will pass like ice-cream on the beach
Time for tea
Vince Brannigan
> "Michael Mcneil" <weathe...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ee7de90ac21854910cd...@mygate.mailgate.org...
>
>>The Real Captain Bligh my come to life soon now that his log from the
>>Bounty has been put on display.
>
>
> When referring to historical personages it is normal to give them the titles
> and distinctions they held on their death.
>
> So he's not 'Captain Bligh' but 'Admiral Sir William Bligh'.
>
This is not always the case when you are dealing with an official
document such as a log. You give the name and rank at the time and can
add "later" e.g. lieutenant (later admiral sir William) Bligh
Vince
John Redman
"Michael Mcneil" <weathe...@hotmail.com> wrote
> At the end of October 1788 the Bounty reached Tahiti. Within six weeks
> the ship was loaded with breadfruit pods.
What actually is a breadfruit and where can I sample one?
John Dupee
grapefuit. Hard skin or rind that is a scaly green with a dense white
flesh that resembles potato. They grow on trees. My exposure to them
was in Puerto Rico where, in season they are cut up and added to beans
or pressed and fried in oil much like green plantains. In PR they are
known as Panna. This Yankee found it pretty wicked yummy when
prepared by a local.
HP sends
Michael Mcneil
in message news:d9a6rk$er9$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk
> What actually is a breadfruit and where can I sample one?
Hawaii, or anywhere the British kept slaves. (Evidently not the bread of
loafers.)
And no, that is not why they called them the Sandwich Islands. (Though
it might be why they called them bread fruit.)
More pertinent to the OP is that the Admiral's nemesis died around the
time of the riots caused by the export of the Tolpuddle Martyrs to
Australia. http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Tolpuddle+Martyrs
Peter Heywood made a spirited defence of his actions during the mutiny,
a number of years after not making a spirited defence of the vessel at
the time of it.
Peter Skelton
Michael Mcneil
news:bdkhb11ov0i5oc8jv...@4ax.com
> try http://breadfruit.org
Good site:
Breadfruit (Artocarpus altilis) is a member of the Moraceae (fig)
family. This handsome evergreen tree originated in the South Pacific and
is now found throughout the tropics.
Maturing at 15 to 20 meters tall or greater it can produce fruits for 50
years or more. The massive trunk may attain a 2 to 3 meter girth and
depending on the variety; it either slightly flares at the base or forms
narrow buttresses.
The luxurious foliage consists of large, glossy dark-green leaves that
range from entire to deeply dissected.
Fruits are usually round, oval, or elongate and weigh from 0.25 to 5.5
kg. The creamy white or pale yellow flesh, when roasted, is said to have
the texture and fragrance of fresh baked bread, giving the tree its
name.
Breadfruit is usually seedless but there are also many varieties with
seeds.
***********************************************************************
So why did they put cocoanut in Bounty bars?
Since we are so widely off topic, I wonder how many of these trees could
be used in regions where deforestation has caused major problems to
agriculture.
I saw a programme about problems in Australia recently, where the land
had become saline and useless. Some had turned to hydroponics some to
raising ostriches and some to fish farming. Planting cocoanut and maybe
this tree might help restore the land?
Fred J. McCall
wrote:
:"Michael Mcneil" <weathe...@hotmail.com> wrote
:
:> At the end of October 1788 the Bounty reached Tahiti. Within six weeks
:> the ship was loaded with breadfruit pods.
:
:What actually is a breadfruit and where can I sample one?
It's a breadfruit (seems obvious, doesn't it)? Go to Jamaica or
Tahiti.
--
"Well, I met a girl in West Hollywood. I ain't naming names.
She really worked me over good. She was just like Jesse James.
She really worked me over good. She was a credit to her gender.
She put me through some changes, Lord.
Sort of like a Waring blender."
-- Warren Zevon, "Poor, Poor, Pitiful Me"
Brad Meyer
<andre....@gmx.de> wrote:
>"William Black" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>When referring to historical personages it is normal to give them the titles
>>and distinctions they held on their death.
>>
>>So he's not 'Captain Bligh' but 'Admiral Sir William Bligh'.
>
>He was a "Sir"? AFAIR William Bligh was neighter an aristocrat nor
>ever knighted.
Not only that, I'm pretty sure his parents were married.
William Black
> Here's the inscription from his grave
Shit, wrong again...
Peter Skelton
<andre....@gmx.de> wrote:
>"William Black" <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>When referring to historical personages it is normal to give them the titles
>>and distinctions they held on their death.
>>
>>So he's not 'Captain Bligh' but 'Admiral Sir William Bligh'.
>
>He was a "Sir"? AFAIR William Bligh was neighter an aristocrat nor
>ever knighted.
Here's the inscription from his grave
SACRED
TO THE MEMORY OF
WILLIAM BLIGH ESQUIRE FRS
VICE ADMIRAL OF THE BLUE
THE CELEBRATED NAVIGATOR
WHO FIRST TRANSPLANTED THEBREAD FRUIT TREE
FROM OTAHETTE TO THE WEST INDIES
BRAVELY FOUGHT THE BATTLES OF HIS COUNTRY
AND DIED BELOVED RESPECTED AND LAMENTED
ON THE 7th DAY OF DECEMBER 1817
AGED 64
He went back to Tahiti in 1792 and did the job he missed the
first time.
Peter Skelton
Weatherlawyer
who was master of the vessel about whom and/or which your original post
is in refernce to. Or whatever I mean.
Something like that.
Andrew Robert Breen
Andre Ilausky <andre....@gmx.de> wrote:
>Brad Meyer <brad...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>>So he's not 'Captain Bligh' but 'Admiral Sir William Bligh'.
>>>
>>>He was a "Sir"? AFAIR William Bligh was neighter an aristocrat nor
>>>ever knighted.
>>
>>Not only that, I'm pretty sure his parents were married.
>
>aristocratic family had a good chance of being born on the right side
>of the blanket.
Bligh's family certainly wasn't aristocratic. His father was
an excise officer, so his origins were rather higher than
Cook (father was a farm labourer) but rather lower than
Nelson (father was a country vicar).
He died a Vice-Admiral. Although he was never knighted he
/was/ made a Fellow of the Royal Society, which some would
regard as much more select. His tomb names him as:
WILLIAM BLIGH ESQUIRE FRS
VICE ADMIRAL OF THE BLUE
THE CELEBRATED NAVIGATOR
WHO FIRST TRANSPLANTED THEBREAD FRUIT TREE
FROM OTAHETTE TO THE WEST INDIES
BRAVELY FOUGHT THE BATTLES OF HIS COUNTRY
AND DIED BELOVED RESPECTED AND LAMENTED
So he's "Admiral Bligh", for the purposes of discussion.
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Time has stopped, says the Black Lion clock
and eternity has begun" (Dylan Thomas)
William Black
"Andrew Robert Breen" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:d9ej7l$54tu$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
> He died a Vice-Admiral. Although he was never knighted he
> /was/ made a Fellow of the Royal Society, which some would
> regard as much more select.
An interesting item on the BBC the other day which said that Bligh is the
man who connects Cook to Nelson, both of whom praised him highly.
Looks like he was the perfect subordinate...
Andrew Robert Breen
William Black <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Andrew Robert Breen" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
>news:d9ej7l$54tu$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
>
>> He died a Vice-Admiral. Although he was never knighted he
>> /was/ made a Fellow of the Royal Society, which some would
>> regard as much more select.
>
>An interesting item on the BBC the other day which said that Bligh is the
>man who connects Cook to Nelson, both of whom praised him highly.
>
>Looks like he was the perfect subordinate...
I'd imagine he was a damned uncomfortable subordinate, just as
he was a damned difficult superior. He does, however, seem
to have been supremely competant. Anyone who was praised by
Cook as a navigator and by Duncan and Nelson as a fighting
captain - well, who are we to criticse their abilities..?
--
Andy Breen ~ Interplanetary Scintillation Research Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"Who dies with the most toys wins" (Gary Barnes)
Peter Skelton
Breen) wrote:
>In article <d9eoj5$l1a$1...@news.freedom2surf.net>,
>William Black <ab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Andrew Robert Breen" <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote in message
>>news:d9ej7l$54tu$1...@central.aber.ac.uk...
>>
>>> He died a Vice-Admiral. Although he was never knighted he
>>> /was/ made a Fellow of the Royal Society, which some would
>>> regard as much more select.
>>
>>An interesting item on the BBC the other day which said that Bligh is the
>>man who connects Cook to Nelson, both of whom praised him highly.
>>
>>Looks like he was the perfect subordinate...
>
>I'd imagine he was a damned uncomfortable subordinate, just as
>he was a damned difficult superior. He does, however, seem
>to have been supremely competant. Anyone who was praised by
>Cook as a navigator and by Duncan and Nelson as a fighting
>captain - well, who are we to criticse their abilities..?
I get the feeling that Bligh was hard to deal with unless the
other person was as competent as he was. Cook and Nelson weren't
likely to have problems with him.
Possibly Bligh had difficulty understanding ordinary people or
those a little below average.
Peter Skelton
William Black
It could also have been that with his good reports and reputation he was
'picked for stardom' and given a job where he could shine, and then failed.
Andrew Robert Breen
/Nods/
Self-made man, rose by ability and application. Maybe had problems
dealing with those who didn't work as hard at the job as he did..
I've met 'em. A difficult (but oh! so important) training for those
willing to work, working with someone like that. For the lazy -
not nice. For the lazy and incompentant (step forward, Mr Christian!)
- well, it adds an extra attraction to Tahiti...
Peter Skelton
Not that job, it was out of the star line.
Peter Skelton
Michael Mcneil
Once they had returned home the crew would have been paid off and hard
pressed to find a more pleasant future than the one they were forced to
leave at Hawaii or any of the Pacific Islands.
Taking a RN ship to stay there was a stupid idea of course. They would
have done better to go home and get a passage back on a merchantman and
jump ship. So why didn't they?
The water shortage might have been unpleasant but the officers managed
to travel back on an open boat with their share of it. No one mentions
that aspect of the cause of the mutiny.
Had he been such a martinet -as is made out, then his log book will show
it.
Nothing seems to make sense. Why did they burn the boat? Why did they
fall out with each other? What on earth got into them to kill each other
on Pitcairn?
It is all very strange.
William Black
What on earth got into them to kill each other
> on Pitcairn?
I've read that this was more to do with sexual jealousy than anything else.
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
weathe...@hotmail.com (Michael Mcneil) wrote:
> Had he been such a martinet -as is made out, then his log book will show
> it.
When the mutineers were tried, none made an issue of excessive punishment
or cruelty. Also Bligh was not on the list of Officers the Spithead
mutineers wanted removed. Of course there was the Rum Runner rebellion,
but it seems that any Australian Governor who tried to enforce the law
would have met the same fate.
Ken Young
Michael Mcneil
> I've met 'em. A difficult (but oh! so important) training for those
> willing to work, working with someone like that. For the lazy -
> not nice. For the lazy and incompentant (step forward, Mr Christian!)
> - well, it adds an extra attraction to Tahiti...
Another cliche to counter the first?
Something got into them all to mutiny. And taking such a descisive step
is not the mark of a coward.
It's just one of life's imponderables. I imagine life would have to be
unbearable one way or another or the Captain negligent to the point of
endangering the ship, before a mutiny could/would take place.
ken...@cix.compulink.co.uk
<3a7d2dded82ee3b75d1...@mygate.mailgate.org>,
weathe...@hotmail.com (Michael Mcneil) wrote:
> I imagine life would have to be
> unbearable one way or another
In the various accounts of the Bounty Mutiny, I have read no one has
claimed to be sure about the motive. Christen had been a protege of
Bligh and was at one point promoted to acting Lieutenant.
Ken Young