Flake / Fake ...
Eric
>
> USS Gray. Just in case, we flaked out fire hoses. The demonstration that
> ensued didnt get too rowdy though.
Sorry to be such an anal weenie, but "flaked out" just irritates me
...
Websters online:
Main Entry: flake out
Function: intransitive verb
Etymology: probably from dialect flake to lie, bask
Date: 1939
1 slang : to fall asleep
2 slang : to be overcome especially by exhaustion
whereas the proper naval term is _fake_ :
Main Entry: 1fake
Pronunciation: 'fAk
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): faked; fak·ing
Etymology: Middle English
Date: 15th century
: to coil in fakes
Main Entry: 2fake
Function: noun
Date: 1627
: one loop of a coil (as of ship's rope or a fire hose) coiled free
for running
So then, you faked out fire hoses just in case ...
-Eric.
Steve Bartman
>Main Entry: 2fake
>Function: noun
>Date: 1627
>: one loop of a coil (as of ship's rope or a fire hose) coiled free
>for running
>
>So then, you faked out fire hoses just in case ...
From long ago in NJROTC basic seamanship I remember three ways to
position a line on the deck. I can only remember the names of
two--coil and fake.
One way is to position in a circle, with the rings growing vertically
but the diameter fixed (coil.) One way is to position in a circle,
with each ring on the deck and the diameter increasing. This is a
decorative thing, for in-port inspections, etc. And the last is to lay
out in long, thin rows (looking like shoelaces before you unwrap them,
sort of) for easy running out.
Which of the last two is faking, and what's the name of the third way?
Any BMs out there?
Steve
Steve Atkatz
with the keyboard & wrote:
>Tibaht wrote:
>Sorry to be such an anal weenie, but "flaked out" just irritates me
<snippage>
>
>whereas the proper naval term is _fake_ :
>
That's only cause you're not a semi-literate BM
<goes deep and rigs for ultra quiet>
A to Z
***************************************
Age and Treachery will always prevail
Over Youth and Vigor. DBF!!!
David E. M. Jones
(Steve Bartman) wrote:
The decorative thingie, I believe, is a Flemish. Faking out a line is to lay
it out in long thin rows such that the line remains neatly placed but can
easily be used without risk of entanglement, as long as you don't consider
wayward sailors.
I once saw a BM1 tell a newly-reported SA to fake out a line...the kid put
some pretty good moves on the thing and proved himself a prime candidate for
the Mail Buoy Watch. ;-]
B F Lake
>but the diameter fixed (coil.) One way is to position in a circle,
with each ring on the deck and the diameter increasing. This is a
decorative thing, for in-port inspections, etc<
>. And the last is to lay
out in long, thin rows (looking like shoelaces before you unwrap them,
sort of) for easy running out.<
dictionary entry. Also was some occasions for securing each loop of a
faked out line with "preventers"? to a 2 X 4 and cutting each preventer as
the line payed out, but I've also seen advice not to do that for some
evolutions such as being towed. It is all shrouded in mystery where the
only certainty is that whatever you call something, someone will point out
that's wrong<G>.
Regards,
Barry
Steve Bartman
<demjones@*NOSPAM*worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>The decorative thingie, I believe, is a Flemish.
Boom! That's it. Thanks. Not sure if it's capitalized or not, but it
is flemishing. I think there's a secret way known only to BMs to use
one hand to press while the other wraps to get the thing tight as a
drum head and make it stay there. Only taught to strikers at midnight,
dark of the moon, with sentries posted.
Faking out a line is to lay
>it out in long thin rows such that the line remains neatly placed but can
>easily be used without risk of entanglement, as long as you don't consider
>wayward sailors.
My NJROTC teacher was an old warrant bosun who started out on a can at
Okinawa. He was a stickler on terminology, and pounded "fake" into us.
When I was in the Navy I constantly heard "flake" though, always with
mooring lines (subs don't use a lot other types.) Even heard our COB
say "flake it down" a couple of times.
Steve
Michael `Mike` Crowe
<sbar...@ix.netcom.com> writes
Preparing to go alongside.
When it is known `which side to` the ship is securing to the jetty,
fenders are got ready on that side, hawsers are flaked down for running,
.................etc.
`A Seamans Pocket Book` B.R. 827 1952. Director of Naval Training.
Admiralty
That is this side of the pond and the Royal Navy.
Mike :-))
Michael `Mike` Crowe R.N. Shipmates
Steve Bartman
<mike...@mikecrowe.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Preparing to go alongside.
>
>When it is known `which side to` the ship is securing to the jetty,
>fenders are got ready on that side, hawsers are flaked down for running,
>.................etc.
>
>`A Seamans Pocket Book` B.R. 827 1952. Director of Naval Training.
>Admiralty
>
>That is this side of the pond and the Royal Navy.
That's odd. My Webster's has it "fake" from 1627, which means us
Merkins couldn't have altered a RN usage all by our lonesome. Lots of
definitions of "flake" there, but nothing to do with line. And I know
my COB wasn't British--he ate way too many grits to be a "faker." <g>
Anyone got a third, fourth, or fifth opinion/source?
Steve
gws
news:7laut3$ev3$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
. . .
| > One way is to position in a circle, with the rings growing vertically
| > but the diameter fixed (coil.) One way is to position in a circle,
| > with each ring on the deck and the diameter increasing. This is a
| > out in long, thin rows (looking like shoelaces before you unwrap them,
| > sort of) for easy running out.
| >
| > Any BMs out there?
|
| it out in long thin rows such that the line remains neatly placed but can
| easily be used without risk of entanglement, as long as you don't consider
| wayward sailors.
|
| some pretty good moves on the thing and proved himself a prime candidate for
| the Mail Buoy Watch. ;-]
From long ago in Boat Unit One I'll take a shot at this. Faking is the
arrangement of a line in long flat rows looking like shoelaces that David and
Steve describe. Flemishing is the arrangement of a line in a decorative coil.
(In fact, the OED defines the term as "Flemish-coil," and the term
"Flemish-fake" as "a method of coiling a rope that runs freely when let
go..Each bend is slipped under the last, and the whole rendered flat and solid
to walk on.).
Grey Satterfield
gws
news:377914db...@nntp.ix.netcom.com...
It appears that Mike used the term correctly. The OED lists "flake as a
synonym for "fake":
"flake, n.6
[Cf. fake n.1, and Ger. flechte of same meaning.]
= fake n.1
1626 Capt. Smith Accidence 27 Coyle your cable in small flakes [printed
slakes].
1891 H. L. Webb in Electr. in Daily Life, Making a Cable 178 The cable is
arranged in flat coils..each coil is technically known as a 'flake'."
As did Steve, I thought that using "flake" insteade of "fake" was wrong but it
turns out to be correct. We live and learn. Thanks Mike.
Grey Satterfield
gws
news:3778fc02...@news.idt.net...
| On Tue, 29 Jun 1999 11:23:23 -0400, Eric <wz...@mindless.com> fumbled
| with the keyboard & wrote:
|
| >Tibaht wrote:
|
| >Sorry to be such an anal weenie, but "flaked out" just irritates me
| <snippage>
| >
| >whereas the proper naval term is _fake_ :
| >
| That's only cause you're not a semi-literate BM
Steve and I have just learned that a little learning is a dangerous thing.
Grey Satterfield
Steve Bartman
>As did Steve, I thought that using "flake" insteade of "fake" was wrong but it
>turns out to be correct. We live and learn. Thanks Mike.
Ditto. I KNOW my COB didn't have an OED on CD though. But I guess
that, like USMC DIs, COBs are sometimes mistaken, but never wrong. <g>
Steve
Steve Bartman
>From long ago in Boat Unit One I'll take a shot at this. Faking is the
>arrangement of a line in long flat rows looking like shoelaces that David and
>Steve describe. Flemishing is the arrangement of a line in a decorative coil.
>(In fact, the OED defines the term as "Flemish-coil," and the term
>"Flemish-fake" as "a method of coiling a rope that runs freely when let
>go..Each bend is slipped under the last, and the whole rendered flat and solid
>to walk on.).
>
Now that you describe this, I think there's at least four
arrangements. I can picture exactly what you describe here, but it's a
"fancy" fake, for more permanently ready lines. Saw these on the
tender forecastles all the time.
A "working" fake (don't know if there's a real term) is a fake, but
it's not flat. The coils are laying against each other at an angle;
it's put down while bent at the waist, and is intended to be a
temporary pattern for a line (mooring usually) that's to be used any
second. When you wouldn't want to take the time to make it flat, or
perhaps be in the way doing so when it starts to run.
Steve
Katana
>
>Which of the last two is faking, and what's the name of the third way?
>Any BMs out there?
>
Ray Mote
: Now that you describe this, I think there's at least four
: arrangements. I can picture exactly what you describe here, but it's a
: "fancy" fake, for more permanently ready lines. Saw these on the
: tender forecastles all the time.
:
Please pardon the intrusion, Steve, but yours was the last post I saw in
this thread, and thus the handiest to follow-up. <grin>
From "The Ashley Book Of Knots", Clifford W. Ashley (marine painter & knot
nut), Doubleday, 1944, republished under ISBN 0-385-04025-3 by Bantam
Doubleday Dell Publishing Group, approx. 610 pages.
Page 516: " 'Admiral: What mean you by flakes?
Captain: They are only those several circles or
rounds of the roapes or cables, that are
quoiled up round.'
Botelier's Dialogues, circa 1634.
3102. A flake is the sailor's term for a turn in an ordinary
coil, or for a complete tier in a flat coil, as a French or Flemish
flake. The current dictionary form of the word is 'fake', a word that
I have never heard used with this meaning.
A flemish flake is a spiral coil of one layer only. It is made on deck,
in this manner, so that it may be walked on if necessary. Sometimes the
outer turn is stopped to the end with sail twine, which keeps the flake
from being accidentally uncoiled. Commonly it is circular. Often in
yachts and training ships Flemish flakes are sewed together on the back
and placed about deck for ornament.
3103. Sometimes a Flemish flake is made in elliptical form, when this
shape better suits the space that is to be filled.
3104. A french coil is made of several (usually three or four) Flemish
flakes, one on top of the other. The first one is laid from the center
outward, the next from the outside, inward. Each flake is made one turn
smaller than the preceding one."
This joker put to sea in 1904 on the whaling bark SUNBEAM, which was
"probably the last merchant square-rigger to put to sea with hemp standing
rigging". Does one whaling voyage, a lifetime of association with
mariners both doing marine drawings and collecting knot lore make him an
expert? I certainly am *not* qualified to answer that question (being a
sand-crab). You'll find his book referenced in the bibliographies of
marine riggers textbooks, though. Well worth reading, even at the list
price of $62.50, for all the insights provided by his stories of "the old
days and the old ways". The book includes 7,000 drawings. If nothing
else, the list of citations of old texts in his library makes a good
starting place for the documentation search!
--
Ray Mote <rm...@rain.org> Oxnard, CA
Rob Wheeler
> but the diameter fixed (coil.) One way is to position in a circle,
> with each ring on the deck and the diameter increasing. This is a
> decorative thing, for in-port inspections, etc. And the last is to lay
Cheesing.
> out in long, thin rows (looking like shoelaces before you unwrap them,
> sort of) for easy running out.
Faking
> Which of the last two is faking, and what's the name of the third way?
cheers
Rob.
--
Rob Wheeler Able-Scroat RNR
r...@pypers.demon.co.uk
Andrew Yeung
Bartman) wrote:
>One way is to position in a circle,
>with each ring on the deck and the diameter increasing. This is a
>decorative thing, for in-port inspections, etc.
Was on an RSN ship; they called it "cheesing" the rope; they said it
was a decorative thing too.
Harbor Pirate
ships and I have been a tug captain. I have dove into many a lad
for 'Flaking' down a line. I contend that since I DON NOT eat corn
fakes for breakfast, my lines will not be flaked.
The Brits may call it 'cheesing', we call it 'flemishing'
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Harbor Pirate
gws
I guess our education on this score can be chalked up to salty scholarship.
Grey Satterfield
gws
| A "working" fake (don't know if there's a real term) is a fake, but
| it's not flat. The coils are laying against each other at an angle;
| it's put down while bent at the waist, and is intended to be a
| temporary pattern for a line (mooring usually) that's to be used any
| second. When you wouldn't want to take the time to make it flat, or
| perhaps be in the way doing so when it starts to run.
Perhaps we should call this one a "fake fake." More seriously, the ends of
the faked line are not supposed to be flat, only the interior portion the line
is flat, although this comprises at least 90% of its length.
Grey Satterfield
Steve Bartman
<navy_har...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>I am a 15 year, very literate BM1(SW). 11 of those years ahve been on
>ships and I have been a tug captain. I have dove into many a lad
>for 'Flaking' down a line. I contend that since I DON NOT eat corn
>fakes for breakfast, my lines will not be flaked.
> The Brits may call it 'cheesing', we call it 'flemishing'
"Cheesing" seen elsewhere in the thread as well. This was a completely
new one on me. Perhaps from the old wooden ship days when ration
cheeses were stowed formed in immense round shapes?
Steve
B F Lake
>The Brits may call it 'cheesing', we call it 'flemishing'<
differences here displayed. In the RN , everything in the Seamanship
Manual that is not "leg-o-mutton shaped" has something to do with cheese.
It is assumed everyone is familiar with legs of mutton, even if you have
never seen one and aren't too sure what mutton is either. Apparently,
cheese in Britain is round. It does not seem to come in square plastic
wrapped slices from Kraft. So any round container like the old cap box is
a "cheese tin" or similar. The confusion between RN cheese and RN soap is
another matter. The bosun uses his knife (always carried) to slice off
soap from his soap brick into his mop bucket (swab is USN) and since the
cheese is so similar to the soap , the same knife is used at dinner.
Cheesing down the lines such as on the deck by each awning stanchion so
they are pleasing to the eyes of passing officers, is called that because
the result is round. It originates from watching their sisters or more
often , their friends' sisters, "make cheeses." This is defined in the
dictionary as "(of school girls) , spin around & sink suddenly, inflating
petticoats."
Hope this helps,
Barry
Eric
Never heard it put that way before. Bwahaha.
Perhaps it's one of those introduction of common usage regardless of
proper usage of vocabulary.
Unrelated: As an EW2 at my ESWS pre-board (Yes, pre-board. They
decided that getting the Chiefs Mess together to fail a candidate was
sort of embarrassing and a waste of Valuable Chiefs' Time. Much more
grueling than the Chiefs' Board), the BM1(SW) didn't much care for me
listing 'Deck Apes' as one of the animals that could be found on the
forecastle. :)
Unrelated 2: During a rewrite of the BMOW's call book, the word
'trice' in the reveille ended up wrapping in the wrong place. The
call went from:
0600 "Reveille, reveille. All hands heave out, and trice
up. Now reveille."
to:
0600 "Reveille, reveille. All hands heave out, and
trice up. Now reveille."
and promptly began to be passed as "Reveille, reveille. All hands
heave out, and up. Now reveille." When pointed out how stupid it
sounds (being very used to the former word), and asked what "heave
out, and up" meant, the BM2 replied "Heave out, and get your ass
up!" When pointed to the formatting error, his response was that
'trice' was optional. To this day, I think they are still passing
"out, and up" on that ship.
ran...@notatnetcom.com
>
>and promptly began to be passed as "Reveille, reveille. All hands
>heave out, and up. Now reveille." When pointed out how stupid it
>sounds (being very used to the former word), and asked what "heave
>out, and up" meant, the BM2 replied "Heave out, and get your ass
>up!" When pointed to the formatting error, his response was that
>'trice' was optional. To this day, I think they are still passing
>"out, and up" on that ship.
Glad we skipped all this and just went with the massed bagpipes and
drums playing "Scotland the Brave" or "Baba O'Reilly". They had not
suffered enough...
random
Harbor Pirate
> and promptly began to be passed as "Reveille, reveille. All hands
> heave out, and up. Now reveille." When pointed out how stupid it
> sounds (being very used to the former word), and asked what "heave
> out, and up" meant, the BM2 replied "Heave out, and get your ass
> up!" When pointed to the formatting error, his response was that
> 'trice' was optional. To this day, I think they are still passing
> "out, and up" on that ship.
I hope that "Trice Up" is not too unknown. One was to Heave out of his
rack then Trice it up allowing the compartment cleaner to get under it
for sweepers. The advent of coffin lockers eliminated the physical
need to trice up. I like how it sounded when I passed the word. Of
course there were were days that the BMOW would pass Heave Up and Trice
Out. Been on a couple of ships where 'Heaving Up' was a common
practice in Deck berthing, especially after our last night in a liberty
port.
gws
news:7lfe99$9ja$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
. . .
| I hope that "Trice Up" is not too unknown. . . .
Indeed, it is well known; from the OED:
"trice
. . .
"2. To pull or haul with a rope; spec. (Naut.) usually with up, to haul or
hoist up and secure with a rope or lashing, to lash up."
I assume that this comes from the days when every sailor after "heaving out"
had to "trice up" his hammock. Weren't hammocks still in use in U.S. ships at
least as late as the '30s? When were hammocks finally phased out?
Grey Satterfield
Eric
Certainly is still well known ... I've, uh, heard tell (yeah, that's
it!) of people being triced up for certain nefarious purposes ...
Word of Advice: NEVER put on a safety harness on your birthday while
shipboard!
I've seen on some older ships, that the bottom rack triced up for
sweepers and field day, coffin locker and all. The rack on a Burke
are mounted to the deck, no way to get under them. And for cushiness
... nearly all the top racks have coffin lockers as well.
-Eric.
LCDR1635
NIMITZ when I was onboard her in the mid 80s still said "Wake up and trice
up"...
John Eckhardt
Tri...@soca.com
LCDR1635 wrote:
My memory may be failing -- I forget -- but I remember it as "Reveille!
Reveille! Heave out and trice up!" Of course, that's from DDs and much before
there was a NIMITZ.
Martin Sinclair
>
>Glad we skipped all this and just went with the massed bagpipes and
>drums playing "Scotland the Brave" or "Baba O'Reilly". They had not
>suffered enough...
>
Well yes, but I seem to recall that your tape of such stirring (?pun)
music met an unfortunate accident, and now lies in a watery grave.
Now pipers are slightly harder to throw overboard. Mind you, a ship
does offer less room to escape :-)
Martin
First of Foot, Right of the Line
Malcolm
On this side of the pond, the pipe was "Call hands, call hands, call
hands. Heave ho, heave ho, heave ho, lash up and stow" meaning lash
your hammock and stow it in the "nettings" (actually a metal structure).
May still be used, for all I know. There were many unofficial additions
such as "wakey wakey rise and shine, you want you're breakfast and I
want mine", added to but not instead of the usual pipe.
Hammocks did not disappear from HM Ships until the mid - late 60's (I
slept soundly and well in one in SOLEBAY 60-62).
I believe that the last person to be officially permitted sleep in a
hammock aboard ship was a Yachtie (member of the Royal Yacht ship's co.)
who kept his 'mick until he retired in the 70's even after she had been
converted to bunk accommodation.
>
--
Regards
Malcolm
www.tosd.demon.co.uk - HMS SOLEBAY and Battle class website.
I love to cook with wine: sometimes I even put it in the food.
Mark Lookabaugh
>
> LCDR1635 wrote:
>
> > The Lower racks on NIMITZ could be triced up. The revelle 1-MC call used on
> > NIMITZ when I was onboard her in the mid 80s still said "Wake up and trice
> > up"...
> >
>
> My memory may be failing -- I forget -- but I remember it as "Reveille!
> Reveille! Heave out and trice up!" Of course, that's from DDs and much before
> there was a NIMITZ.
That same 1MC call was used on the USS BREWTON up to 1992. (Knox FF)
Even though all the racks in forward WEPS berthing were fixed in place,
there may have been some elsewhere onboard that triced up. Can't recall
seeing any, though.
--
Mark Lookabaugh
mlookaba (at) telepath.com
USS Brewton FF-1086 Home Page
http://www.telepath.com/mlookaba/navy.htm
Andrew Kennedy
> hands. Heave ho, heave ho, heave ho, lash up and stow" meaning lash
> your hammock and stow it in the "nettings" (actually a metal structure).
> May still be used, for all I know. There were many unofficial additions
> such as "wakey wakey rise and shine, you want you're breakfast and I
> want mine", added to but not instead of the usual pipe.
On SMs in aust we didn't go for that (unless the coxswain was feeling
foolish).
It was lights on in the mess, then the stereo.
Quite pleasent to wake up to Evard Greig's, Morning.
Sure, it wasn't Navy. I think that was the point.
--
Andrew
DBF
gws
news:7lgcpv$2...@gcsin3.geccs.gecm.com...
Pass the word: Piperrrrs man your tunes!
Grey Satterfield
Jeff Crowell
Eric <wz...@mindless.com> wrote in message 3778E4EB...@mindless.com...
>Tibaht wrote:
>>
>> USS Gray. Just in case, we flaked out fire hoses. The demonstration that
>> ensued didnt get too rowdy though.
>
>Sorry to be such an anal weenie, but "flaked out" just irritates me
Ahem. Another reason to check out the s.m.n Slang FAQ.
8-)
Jeff
mark runyan
Independence,and Roosevelt) and what you stated is the traditional
wale-up call i've always heard.
Brad Meyer
>
>
>LCDR1635 wrote:
>
>> The Lower racks on NIMITZ could be triced up. The revelle 1-MC call used on
>> NIMITZ when I was onboard her in the mid 80s still said "Wake up and trice
>> up"...
>>
>
>My memory may be failing -- I forget -- but I remember it as "Reveille!
>Reveille! Heave out and trice up!" Of course, that's from DDs and much before
>there was a NIMITZ.
"Now reveille reveille, up all hands. All hands heave out and trice
up. The smoking lamp is lighted in all authorized spaces. Reveille."
USS Longbeach, circa 1972.
Brad Meyer
"It is history that teaches us to hope"
-- R.E. Lee