Re: The gun goofball philosophy ;-)
Paul J. Adam
<rdsa...@comcast.net> writes
>"Paul J. Adam" <ne...@jrwlynchANDNOTTHIS.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>news:HgCzSZLg...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk:
>> But please, don't let me tell you what to think or what to believe. Go
>> with any claim you like, insist it's true, and scream as loudly as you
>> like at doubters. That'll *really* change the facts on the ground here.
>
>Excuse me, but I am not defending either the "up to 3 million" or the "up
>to 4 million" number. I am simply saying that it was claimed to be from
>the Home Office in a January 16, 2000 edition of the Sunday Times.
The claim was "The estimate that 3m guns are illegally held in the UK -
made by researchers collecting evidence for a parliamentary inquiry into
the gun trade - is far higher than previously thought." Note that it was
*not* from the Home Office.
The inquiry was published as the "Second Report on Controls over
Firearms" by the Home Affairs Committee". The Home Office submission to
that report stated that "Suggestions that there are in the region of 1
million illegally held firearms in the UK are baseless."
"The evidence now available leads the Government to reject the idea that
a large number of guns are "flooding" into the UK from abroad, and
rendering our controls ineffectual. The Police Service and HM Customs
have no evidence of organised and large-scale smuggling of firearms into
the UK, either through seizures made by HM Customs, or by the appearance
of a large number of such guns in crime. It should be noted in this
regard that both random and intelligence-led searches by HM Customs
recover considerable quantities of controlled drugs, pornographic
material and other illegal material every year, of which firearms
represent a consistently low proportion."
" The fact that the use of such weapons arises from incidents related to
organised crime demonstrates that the UK is not awash with what may be
termed "conventional" illegal firearms. Organised crime's reliance on
re-activated firearms, rather than the type of conventional weaponry
that is widely available across Europe, reveals that this country's most
serious criminals do not consider smuggling to be a viable source of
guns. HM Customs figures for 1998 record that less than 150 firearms
were seized while being smuggled into the country. To illustrate this
point further, it is worth noting that some of the UK's leading
organised crime figures have been successfully prosecuted for possession
of firearms that were re-activations or conversions—not conventional
weapons."
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/95ap
05.htm
Now, this is a published Parliamentary report where you can get in
trouble for being caught in a lie, not an unsourced, unattributed and
unpublished study...
Where confusion may have crept in is from confusion of categories: "The
police estimate that there are some four million air weapons in
circulation" (same document). Someone reads that, sees "four million
weapons" and we're off...
--
He thinks too much, such men are dangerous.
Paul J. Adam
RD (The Sandman)
$RIl$POL...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk:
Fair enough..... As noted, I read the original article almost nine years
ago.
> Where confusion may have crept in is from confusion of categories: "The
> police estimate that there are some four million air weapons in
> circulation" (same document). Someone reads that, sees "four million
> weapons" and we're off...
Possibly although the cites in news articles of the 4 million were in
articles published in December of 2000. Almost a year later than the
Times article.
--
Sleep well tonight,
RD (The Sandman)
Let's see if I have this healthcare thingy right. Congress is to pass
a plan written by a committee whose head has said he doesn't understand
it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, signed by a president who
hasn't read it, with funding administered by a Treasury chief who didn't
pay his taxes because he didn't understand TurboTax, overseen by an obese
Surgeon General and financed by a country that's nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?
Andrew Swallow
{snip}
>
> Where confusion may have crept in is from confusion of categories: "The
> police estimate that there are some four million air weapons in
> circulation" (same document). Someone reads that, sees "four million
> weapons" and we're off...
>
Four million *air* weapons I can believe. My father used to
have one. Fired a single small pellet. Since it was air powered
and not explosive powered it probably would not pierce your skin.
So basically a toy.
Andrew Swallow
edi...@netpath.net
> Four million *air* weapons I can believe. My father used to
> have one. Fired a single small pellet. Since it was air powered
> and not explosive powered it probably would not pierce your skin.
> So basically a toy.
Shows how little you know! I once killed a mole in the backyard with
a "mere" Crosman air rifle; the pellet went in one side - and out the
other. That was after shooting straight through LOTS of empty soda
cans with it for target practice.
Some kid near here got killed several years ago in an accidental
shooting with an air rifle when the pellet hit him in the chest.
http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com - your source for hard-to-find stuff!
Richard Casady
I don't believe there are any air weapons. They don't make anything
powerful enough to call a weapon, although such things were actually
in use for war a couple of hundred years ago.
Casadu
Kerryn Offord
They can still kill...
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10531988&pnum=1
--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---
mike
>
> I don't believe there are any air weapons. They don't make anything
> powerful enough to call a weapon, although such things were actually
> in use for war a couple of hundred years ago.
Google seems to have ate my post, so trying again.
Old Napoleonic era Austrian 'Wind Gun'
http://www.beemans.net/images/Austrian%20airguns.htm
vs new
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Career_707_9mm_Ultra/307
**
mike
**
Morton Davis
"Andrew Swallow" <am.sw...@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:8tmdnW4WZuW4jNzW...@bt.com...
The Lewis and Clark Expedition carried air guns capable of bringing down a
deer - in case their gunpowder got wet.
Andrew Swallow
People are lying with definitions. These machines were designed
for short range target practice with paper targets rather than
killing things - which is why they were not controlled.
Anything can be used to kill, particularly if misused.
Andrew Swallow
Andrew Swallow
appear to have been cooking the books by including target practice
toys. I suspect that there is a big difference in air pressure and
pellet speed.
Andrew Swallow
Richard Casady
I have an air rifle that I use to kill the occasional bat that gets
into the house. With 18 foot ceilings, the usual tennis raquet won't
work. The gun will kill a rabbit if you aim for the brain. Birds don't
have to die, you just grab them off the inside of a window and throw
them out the door. I used a golf club on the rabid coon that invaded
the house.
Casady
Richard Casady
<am.sw...@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>They was designed to be a proper weapons. The anti-gun campaigners
>appear to have been cooking the books by including target practice
>toys. I suspect that there is a big difference in air pressure and
>pellet speed.
More the bullet size and weight. The speed is more than adequate.
Casady
Jim Yanik
> People are lying with definitions. These machines were designed
> for short range target practice with paper targets rather than
> killing things - which is why they were not controlled.
>
> Anything can be used to kill, particularly if misused.
>
> Andrew Swallow
exactly the pro-gunners point. "if MISused".
(which is how law is supposed to work...a crime has to be committed before
one's rights are restricted.)
"To ban guns because criminals use them is to tell the innocent and
law-abiding that their rights and liberties depend not on their own
conduct, but on the conduct of the guilty and the lawless, and that the
law will permit them to have only such rights and liberties as the
lawless will allow... For society does not control crime, ever, by
forcing the law-abiding to accommodate themselves to the expected
behavior of criminals. Society controls crime by forcing the criminals
to accommodate themselves to the expected behavior of the law-abiding."
---------- Jeff Snyder
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Kerryn Offord
Some of the newer high powered .22 air rifles are used for potting pests
near urban areas... at least in NZ... 28 foot pounds is enough for a rabbit.