ICE STATION ZEBRA - IDENTIFICATION OF THE SUBMARINE
Gilbert Collins
Andrew Toppan
>It seems to be some kind of Guppy Class Nuclear boat
That's an impossibility, since 'GUPPY' describes modernized WWII-era
diesel-electric fleet boats.
--
Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/
Bob L
http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/submar/ss396.txt
Bob
"Andrew Toppan" <acto...@gwi.net> wrote in message
news:bm2bfus6kvg62nf0e...@4ax.com...
A
"Gilbert Collins" <gcol...@magma.ca> wrote:
Hi:
Here's a link to some (crappy Windows Media Player) video, if that
helps.
http://us.imdb.com/Trailers?0063121&708&28
AG
--
Please remove my pants before sending me e-mail.
Brad Meyer
<gcol...@magma.ca> wrote:
>Does anyone know the name of the submarine in the 1968 movie "Ice =
>Station Zebra"?
IIRC USS Valador
>It seems to be some kind of Guppy Class Nuclear boat but
Contradiction in terms. It was a GUPPY II diesel boat (all the
interiors were studio sets).
>I cannot identify it. What class of submarine is this and how many were =
>built?
A whole damn peepot full. It started life as a "standard" WW II US
submarine. GUPPY is an acronym, sort of like FRAM (Greater Underwater
Perfomance something something IIRC) and many of the boats were
converted. Some of the conversion included a "canoe" bow, the removal
of one engine and the installation of a masker, and the addition of a
"sail". The tall steep ones were called "North Atlantic Sails" and the
ones that looked not unlike a WW II type configuration were called
"Step Sails".
>Any information appreciated.
The in port exteriors were shot in San Diego at the Ballast Point Sub
Base, where the ship was home ported.
I'd wager Blackbeard or one of the others around here know more about
the GUPPY's then I do. I learned the little I know from being
stationed on a tender there (USS Nerius AS 17) about 35 years ago.
Brad Meyer
"It is history that teaches us to hope"
-- R E Lee
Milt
GUPPY. Every time I see that movie I have to laugh at the nuclear reactor
sounds. They were taken from a very bad axial fan in the engine room. The
sound crew came aboard for a day and taped doors shutting, hydraulic valves
opening and closing, etc.
"Brad Meyer" <brad...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3cf5b8d0....@netnews.attbi.com...
BlackBeard
(Brad Meyer) wrote:
>
>I'd wager Blackbeard or one of the others around here know more about
>the GUPPY's then I do. I learned the little I know from being
>stationed on a tender there (USS Nerius AS 17) about 35 years ago.
>
Hold onto your money. You posted the extent of my knowledge on the
DB's Let's see, I toured the Gudgeon when she was tied up to us. I
worked on the Bonefish when I was TAD to the Dixon. And last but not
least I toured the Blueback the day she was opened as a museum.
Not much to draw on.
BlackBeard
Submarines once, Submarines twice...
" To laugh often and much; To win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children; To earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends; To appreciate beauty; To find the best in others;
To leave the world a better place, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch or a redeemed social condition;
To know even one life has breathed easier because you lived.
This is to have succeeded".
Derek Lyons
>On Thu, 30 May 2002 02:06:10 GMT, "Gilbert Collins" <gcol...@magma.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>It seems to be some kind of Guppy Class Nuclear boat
>
>That's an impossibility, since 'GUPPY' describes modernized WWII-era
>diesel-electric fleet boats.
Once again the insult without actually providing any useful
information.
D.
Andrew Toppan
>Once again the insult without actually providing any useful
>information.
I provided information (i.e. a GUPPY is not nuclear, so there's no point in
searching for such a boat).
You provided a valueless gripe.
Andrew Toppan
>Seems it's possible but only in Hollywood. See
>http://www.hazegray.org/danfs/submar/ss396.txt
You've referred me to my own website. So what? That doesn't make her a
"nuclear powered guppy boat" as the previous guy said.
Bob L
explicit answer to the original poster's question. No one is contending
that guppy boats were nuclear so there is no need to argue the point.
Bob
"Andrew Toppan" <acto...@gwi.net> wrote in message
news:bh2dfu4p90okplv2b...@4ax.com...
Gilbert Collins
"Ice Station Zebra". I had no idea it was not a real nuclear
boat. Took Hollywood at their word. (always a mistake)
Particular thanks to Michael Hanson who transcribed a
complete history of the submarine.
G. Collins
Ogden Johnson III
>Thanks guys for the information on the submarine used in
>"Ice Station Zebra". I had no idea it was not a real nuclear
>boat. Took Hollywood at their word. (always a mistake)
As much pleasure as I take in Follywood-bashing from time to time, the
target is usually script writers and directors. I have always admired
the ability, particularly in pre-CGI days, of their art directors, set
crews and decorators, properties people, and sound people, to
recreate, more often than not, the looks, sounds, and feel of reality
on a sound stage or back lot.
OJ III
Charles Samardza
Just for info, the same model, even to number was used in the TV
movie "Fer de Lance", and probably others.
A
"Gilbert Collins" <gcol...@magma.ca> wrote:
> Thanks guys for the information on the submarine used in
> "Ice Station Zebra". I had no idea it was not a real nuclear
> boat. Took Hollywood at their word. (always a mistake)
>
> G. Collins
>
>
>
>
Hi:
Not just Hollywood. Paragraph one of page one of the Alistair
MacLean's novel 'Ice Station Zebra' says the Dolphin was a nuclear sub.
Given that the novel hit the bookstores in l963, he may have found it
unnecessary to desribe the ship further.
The first US nuclear sub, the Nautilus, went afloat in l958, I
believe. Very little information would have been public at the time. The
impact at the time would have been as though he'd writted 'newest
high-altitude stealth bomber' to-day.
As for the l968 film, well I haven't seen it. (Borgnine as a Russian
general? Shall I pass?)
William Black
A <And...@Mac.MyPants.Com> wrote in message
news:Andy_G-9F0FD0....@news21.bellnet.ca...
> As for the l968 film, well I haven't seen it. (Borgnine as a Russian
> general? Shall I pass?)
Wrong, Borgnine as jovial but seriously sinister spy.
Actually it's not a bad movie, especially McGoohan's explanation of where
the film comes from, which is a screamingly funny in a nasty cynical sort
of way.
--
William Black
------------------
On time, on budget, or works;
Pick any two from three
Ogden Johnson III
>A <And...@Mac.MyPants.Com> wrote.
>> As for the l968 film, well I haven't seen it. (Borgnine as a Russian
>> general? Shall I pass?)
>Wrong, Borgnine as jovial but seriously sinister spy.
Andy_G was probably confusing it with The Dirty Dozen, where Borgnine
played an American General who *looked* a lot like a Russian General.
The two movies came out about the same time.
OJ III
[Well, when looked at from 30-mumble years ahead it *looks* like about
the same time.]
jchase
> The two movies came out about the same time.
>
> OJ III
> [Well, when looked at from 30-mumble years ahead it *looks* like about
> the same time.]
In 1967 and 1968- pretty much simultaneously, considering the length of
Ernie Borgnine's career (TV and film 1949-2001...so far.)
Speaking of "Ice Station Zebra", can we start an E-mail campaign to get
Alistair MacLean's wonderful "HMS Ulysses" filmed?- it may be his only
novel not yet on celluloid.
A
> > Borgnine as a Russian general?
In article <ad8h9g$org$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>,
"William Black" <black_...@hotmail.com> upbraided me by writing
wisely:
> Wrong, Borgnine as jovial but seriously sinister spy.
Thus, I stand corrected!
Brad Meyer
Naw, less then half (although still a right smart number). Frankly,
I'd rather see his books in print again.
Ice Station Zebra, Where Eagles Dare, Guns of Navarone, Force 10, The
Secret Ways. Any I'm forgetting?
Mark Sieving
>Ice Station Zebra, Where Eagles Dare, Guns of Navarone, Force 10, The
>Secret Ways. Any I'm forgetting?
According to Internet Movie Database:
Alistair MacLean
Writer - filmography
Way to Dusty Death, The (1995) (TV) (novel)
Night Watch (1995) (TV) (novel) (story)
... aka Alistair MacLean's Night Watch (1995) (TV)
... aka Detonator 2: Night Watch (1995) (TV)
Death Train (1993) (TV) (novel)
... aka Alistair MacLean's Death Train (1993) (TV)
... aka Detonator (1993) (TV)
River of Death (1989) (novel)
... aka Alistair MacLean's River of Death (1989)
Hostage Tower, The (1980) (TV) (novel) (story)
Bear Island (1979) (novel)
... aka Alistair MacLean's Bear Island (1979)
Force 10 from Navarone (1978) (novel)
Golden Rendezvous (1977) (novel)
... aka Nuclear Terror (1977) (USA: TV title)
Breakheart Pass (1975) (also novel)
Caravan to Vaccares (1974) (novel)
... aka Passager, Le (1974) (France)
Fear Is the Key (1972) (novel)
When Eight Bells Toll (1971) (also novel)
Puppet on a Chain (1970) (also novel)
Where Eagles Dare (1968) (novel) (story)
Ice Station Zebra (1968) (novel)
Satan Bug, The (1965) (novel) (as Ian Stuart)
Secret Ways, The (1961) (novel The Secret Ways)
Guns of Navarone, The (1961) (novel)
-- Mark Sieving
msie...@ameritech.net
Keith Willshaw
"jchase" <jch...@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3CF81C5A...@neo.rr.com...
I agree about the novel being wonderful but I shudder at the
thought of what Hollywood would do to it. It would end up
as a Fletcher class Battleship off Okinawa and everyone
would live happily ever after except for the token blackman/
japanese/irishman who gives his life for the rest
But if you can get Wolfgang Petersen (Das Boot)
to direct thats a different story,
M.J.Powell
writes
Seconded. Far better than 'Compass Rose' (?)
Mike
--
M.J.Powell
jchase
Brad Meyer wrote:
>
>>Speaking of "Ice Station Zebra", can we start an E-mail campaign to get
>>Alistair MacLean's wonderful "HMS Ulysses" filmed?- it may be his only
>>novel not yet on celluloid.
>
>
> Naw, less then half (although still a right smart number). Frankly,
> I'd rather see his books in print again.
>
> Ice Station Zebra, Where Eagles Dare, Guns of Navarone, Force 10, The
> Secret Ways. Any I'm forgetting?
>
> Brad Meyer
>
According the the Internet Movie Database, the following have been done:
Guns of Navarone
The Secret Ways
The Satan Bug
Ice Station Zebra
Where Eagles Dare
Puppet on a Chain
When Eight Bells Toll
Fear is the Key
Caravan to Vaccares
Breakheart Pass
Golden Rendezvous
Force 10 From Navarone
Bear Island
The Hostage Tower (for TV)
The River of Death
Death Train (TV)
Night Watch (TV)
The Way to Dusty Death (TV)
I concede I've never seen most of them (missed all the TV versions) and
I think there are some titles I haven't even read. I'll agree with you
that reading them is a great pleasure (check your public library- I find
a lot of the old books are still on the shelves). A quick look at
Amazon.com did turn up a few more novels; some are listed as available.
Still, I've never read anything about the Battle of the Atlantic as
impressive as "HMS Ulysses"- one of the great war novels.
jchase
Keith Willshaw wrote:
>
> I agree about the novel being wonderful but I shudder at the
> thought of what Hollywood would do to it. It would end up
> as a Fletcher class Battleship off Okinawa and everyone
> would live happily ever after except for the token blackman/
> japanese/irishman who gives his life for the rest
>
> But if you can get Wolfgang Petersen (Das Boot)
> to direct thats a different story,
>
They would probably film it on HMS Belfast, and replace the London
skyline with an electronic North Sea! (Nothing wrong with doing film in
London- remember Stars Wars was largely done there)
Michael Falcon-Gates
>
>
>Speaking of "Ice Station Zebra", can we start an E-mail campaign to get
>Alistair MacLean's wonderful "HMS Ulysses" filmed?- it may be his only
>novel not yet on celluloid.
You do realize that half the screen time would need to consist of a love story
between the Kapok Kid and the beautiful US Army nurse who brought him back to
health after his boat was blown up by Zeroes at Dunkirk, of course.
Now... did you really mean that?
-m, hasn't read that book in, oh my, twenty years, and still remembers it with
shivers
Iain Rae
>
>
<snip>
>
> I concede I've never seen most of them (missed all the TV versions) and
> I think there are some titles I haven't even read. I'll agree with you
> that reading them is a great pleasure (check your public library- I find
> a lot of the old books are still on the shelves). A quick look at
> Amazon.com did turn up a few more novels; some are listed as available.
>
> Still, I've never read anything about the Battle of the Atlantic as
> impressive as "HMS Ulysses"- one of the great war novels.
>
>
Ermm..... it was about the Russian convoys. :)
Bill McClain
> Actually it's not a bad movie, especially McGoohan's explanation of where
> the film comes from, which is a screamingly funny in a nasty cynical sort
> of way.
Oh, yeah..."David Jones (holding a retort bottle) explains it all for
you."
Next time the movie's on TV, I gotta audiorecord that soliloquy of
McGoohan's -- it was easily my favorite part of the movie. It
deserves to be enshrined for posterity on imdb.com.
Tony Miller
<gcol...@magma.ca> wrote:
>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
>------=_NextPart_000_0044_01C2075D.2E0F41E0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
>Does anyone know the name of the submarine in the 1968 movie "Ice =
>Station Zebra"? It seems to be some kind of Guppy Class Nuclear boat but =
>I cannot identify it. What class of submarine is this and how many were =
>built? Any information appreciated.
>
>G. Collins
>
>
>Snip!
I was stationed at Ballast Point (aka Holy Loch) when they filmed the
exterior scenes. The boat used was USS Ronquil (SS396) with '509'
painted on the sail. There used to be a fibreglass half-sail @
Ballast point which was used for some of the scenes.
I believe all exterior scenes (bridge etc.) were filmed this way. I
remember the Ronquil going out several times with all kinds of
scaffolding erected around the bridge. The scene where Patrick
Mcgowin (sp?) is lowered from a helicopter in the middle of the
Atlantic was done as follows: They tied the stern of the boat to the
dock, and pushed the bow out. They lowered a stuntman from a crane,
with a helipcopter nearby to provide the prop wash. The camera was on
a cherry picker with its arm pushed down near the water, shooting
upwards. This was so that you would not see North Island NAS in the
background.
For the scene where all the marines pull up, jump off their trucks,
and go aboard; This was filmed late at night. The tender on the
other side of the pier is the Nereus (AS17). If you look very
closely, on the opposite side of all the lights (where it is pitch
dark) you can see a young sailor (yours truly) just returning from one
of his first liberties of legal drinking age, stumbling while waiting
for the launch to return to Sperry (AS12). We were moored out during
that time, but not outboard of the Nereus since the Nereus deck force
did not see the humor in us setting the ratguards to prevent Nereus
rats from coming aboard. The thought crossed my mind: Here we are
starting WWIII and I'm sh*t-faced! The sober light of dawn finally
made me realize what was going on.
Cheers,
Tony Miller
Milt
shots were taken of either Sailfish or Salmon. They were both Guppys with a
very high fiberglass sail.
"Tony Miller" <fmil...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3cfc2315...@news.la.sbcglobal.net...
BlackBeard
(Tony Miller) wrote:
>
>I was stationed at Ballast Point (aka Holy Loch)
Wow, talk about a Sea Story!
Ballast Point, Point Loma, San Diego California.
Holy Loch, Dunoon, Argylle, Scotland.
(you must have been a quartermaster.)
Derek Lyons
>It's been many years since I saw the movie. But I thought the exterior
>shots were taken of either Sailfish or Salmon. They were both Guppys with a
>very high fiberglass sail.
Sailfish and Salmon were purpose built SSR's (radar pickets), not
Guppy's. 'Guppy' refers specifically to the rebuilt WWII Fleet Boat.
D.
Alan Lothian
<mjfg...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
> You do realize that half the screen time would need to consist of a love
> story
> between the Kapok Kid and the beautiful US Army nurse who brought him back to
> health after his boat was blown up by Zeroes at Dunkirk, of course.
Kapok Kid speaks with Australian accent, of course. Guys with English
accents machinegun lifeboats....
> Now... did you really mean that?
>
> -m, hasn't read that book in, oh my, twenty years, and still remembers it with
> shivers
What kind of shivers? if we are talking lit crit, I agree. Whole idea
ripped off from CS Forester [The Ship] vastly overblown writing with a
climax every two pages -- no, that's unfair, that was later McLean -- a
climax every five pages, to keep people with that kind of reading rate
going for a week.... That said, HMS U had better passages than anything
McL ever wrote after. I was most impressed when I first read it aged 12
or something. Doesn't stand rereading at all, at all.
someone compared Cruel Sea *unfavourably* with HMS Ulysses.... dear God.
--
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water" Ibn Khaldun
If you wish to email me, try alan dot lothian at blueyonder dot co dot uk
TJ
> As for the l968 film, well I haven't seen it. (Borgnine as a Russian
>general? Shall I pass?)
>
> AG
Well, it did have it's less memorable parts ;-)
I don't recall hearing him described as a general, however. Mebbe I
snoozed thru that scene
TJ
TJ
TJ
>I agree about the novel being wonderful but I shudder at the
>thought of what Hollywood would do to it. It would end up
>as a Fletcher class Battleship off Okinawa and everyone
>would live happily ever after except for the token blackman/
>japanese/irishman who gives his life for the rest
>
Weirdest movie experience I've ever had was watchng John Wayne
taking a sub into some Japanese harbor while speaking Japanese.
At first I thought it was the Adakama talking until I figured out the
flick was dubbed.
Definitely an odd experience.
Tony Miller
(BlackBeard) wrote:
>In article <3cfc2315...@news.la.sbcglobal.net>, fmil...@pacbell.net
>(Tony Miller) wrote:
>
>>
>>I was stationed at Ballast Point (aka Holy Loch)
>
>
>Wow, talk about a Sea Story!
>
>
>Ballast Point, Point Loma, San Diego California.
>
>Holy Loch, Dunoon, Argylle, Scotland.
>
>
> (you must have been a quartermaster.)
Nope.
Nuke ET
Note that I never went to Holy Loch. I just mentioned that Ballast
Point was used as a stand-in for Holy Loch. Transportation costs from
Hollywood were much cheaper.
Cheers,
Tony Miller
A
Alan Lothian <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> - no, that's unfair, that was later McLean -- a
> climax every five pages, to keep people with that kind of reading rate
> going for a week....
By the end of his days, MacLean was busily drinking himself to death,
and was earning his income by "selling" his name to copy cranked out by
others.
Alan Lothian
<And...@Mac.MyPants.Com> wrote:
> By the end of his days, MacLean was busily drinking himself to death,
> and was earning his income by "selling" his name to copy cranked out by
> others.
>
Sadly all too true, and a practice "he" has continued posthumously, too.
Peter Skelton
<nob...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>In article <Andy_G-DC7B49....@news21.bellnet.ca>,
><And...@Mac.MyPants.Com> wrote:
>
>> By the end of his days, MacLean was busily drinking himself to death,
>> and was earning his income by "selling" his name to copy cranked out by
>> others.
>>
>
>Sadly all too true, and a practice "he" has continued posthumously, too.
Continuing to drink after death! The man was a genius. Tell us
more.
____
Peter Skelton
Alan Lothian
<skel...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
Allow me to rephrase: "Sadly all too true, and at least one of those
practices he has continued posthumously, too."
The qualification "at least" allows for the sort of thing that happens
at certain Irish wakes. I did not attend either the wake (if it
existed) or the funeral of Mr McLean, who in any case was not Irish.
But as you have implicitly pointed out, a chap can't be too careful.
daramola tolulope
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> Does anyone know the name of the submarine in the 1968 movie "Ice Station Zebra"? It seems to be some kind of Guppy Class Nuclear boat but I cannot identify it. What class of submarine is this and how many were built? Any information appreciated.
>
> G. Collins
james brown cool-ray
Naultilus live top brake surface.
Carl Kaufmann
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Station_Zebra
The fictional nuclear-powered submarine Tigerfish (SSN-509) was
portrayed in the movie by the diesel-electric Guppy IIA class sub USS
Ronquil (SS-396) when seen on the surface. For submerging and
surfacing scenes, the diesel-electric Guppy IA USS Blackfin (SS-322)
was used, near Pearl Harbor. The underwater scenes used a model of a
Skate-class nuclear submarine.