H.M.B Endeavor
Keith (no, not that Keith)
today, on her way from Oz to B.C.
1. What does H.M.B mean? What distinguished an H.M.B. from an H.M.S.?
2. Can Oz posters say if this is the same replica I saw tooling around
Sydney harbour (on diesels) about 5 years ago? (When a family member asked
if it was the original, our Oz cousin responded that it was, and still had
the original diesels.)
TIA
--
K.B.
If they _are_ out to get you, are you still paranoid?
Vince Brannigan
"Keith (no, not that Keith)" wrote:
> A national newspaper had a nice picture of a replica of H.M.B Endeavor
> today, on her way from Oz to B.C.
>
> 1. What does H.M.B mean? What distinguished an H.M.B. from an H.M.S.?
ones a Bark, the other's a Ship. At that time Ships were limited to vessels
with three masts carrying yards with at least two or three Square sails. as
in
"We ahve met the enemy and they are ours Two ships, Two brigs one Schooner and
one sloop"
attribution is left as an exercise
>
> 2. Can Oz posters say if this is the same replica I saw tooling around
> Sydney harbour (on diesels) about 5 years ago? (When a family member asked
> if it was the original, our Oz cousin responded that it was, and still had
> the original diesels.)
>
When i was in Sydney five yers ago they had the Bounty
Vince
>
Andrew C. Toppan
> 1. What does H.M.B mean? What distinguished an H.M.B. from an H.M.S.?
H.M. Bark. This is distinguished from H.M. Ship in that the Bark is
bark-rigged, whereas the Ship can be anything that floats.
> 2. Can Oz posters say if this is the same replica I saw tooling around
> Sydney harbour (on diesels) about 5 years ago? (When a family member asked
> if it was the original, our Oz cousin responded that it was, and still had
> the original diesels.)
Yes, it's the same replica. This should not be surprising - there's
hardly a huge market for ENDEAVOUR replicas.
--
Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself"
US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum/USS Salem Online - http://www.uss-salem.org/
Naval History, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more
Vince Brannigan
"Andrew C. Toppan" wrote:
H.M. Bark. This is distinguished from H.M. Ship in that the Bark is
> bark-rigged, whereas the Ship can be anything that floats.
While this is the modern usage, I don't think it was the usage at the time of the
Endeavor
A ship had three masts and square sails. A ship-rigged sloop had three masts
the same hull with two masts was a brig.
Vince
Keith (no, not that Keith)
>"Andrew C. Toppan" wrote:
>
>
>H.M. Bark. This is distinguished from H.M. Ship in that the Bark is
>
>While this is the modern usage, I don't think it was the usage at the time
of the
>Endeavor
>A ship had three masts and square sails. A ship-rigged sloop had three
masts
>the same hull with two masts was a brig.
>
>Vince
>
The picture in the Globe and Mail shows three masts. The first two appear
to be square rigged.
Prof. Vincent Brannigan
.
> The picture in the Globe and Mail shows three masts. The first two appear
> to be square rigged.
from Britannica
bark
also spelled BARQUE, sailing ship of three or more masts, the rear
(mizzenmast) being rigged for a fore-and-aft rather than a square sail.
Until fore-and-aft rigs were applied to large ships to reduce crew
sizes, the term was often used for any small sailing vessel. In poetic
use, a bark can be any sailing ship or boat.
Vince
Keith (no, not that Keith)
>from Britannica
>
>bark
>
>also spelled BARQUE, sailing ship of three or more masts, the rear
>(mizzenmast) being rigged for a fore-and-aft rather than a square sail.
Yes, that's the rig. Thanks.
Andrew C. Toppan
> to be square rigged.
I was aboard said ship about a year ago, so I pulled out my photos to have
a look. She's actually *ship* rigged, not bark-rigged. She crosses three
yards on the fore and main masts, two on the mizzen, and two on the 'sprit
for good measure.
This brings up the obvious question: Why are the calling her a bark?
Andrew C. Toppan
> >(mizzenmast) being rigged for a fore-and-aft rather than a square sail.
> Yes, that's the rig. Thanks.
Unfortunately, it's not.
Keith (no, not that Keith)
Andrew C. Toppan wrote in message ...
appear
>> to be square rigged.
>
>I was aboard said ship about a year ago, so I pulled out my photos to have
>a look. She's actually *ship* rigged, not bark-rigged. She crosses three
>yards on the fore and main masts, two on the mizzen, and two on the 'sprit
>for good measure.
>
>This brings up the obvious question: Why are the calling her a bark?
>
>
address?
Keith (no, not that Keith)
Andrew C. Toppan wrote in message ...
>Keith (no, not that Keith) (kbetty@!Nospam!.telusplanet.net) was seen to
write:
>> The picture in the Globe and Mail shows three masts. The first two
appear
>> to be square rigged.
>
>I was aboard said ship about a year ago, so I pulled out my photos to have
>a look. She's actually *ship* rigged, not bark-rigged. She crosses three
>yards on the fore and main masts, two on the mizzen, and two on the 'sprit
>for good measure.
OK, re-checking the picture does show two yards crossing the mizzen. I
confused the spanker with a fore-and-aft rig.
{Sail name courtesy of Dewey Lambdin in book "H.M.S Cockerel" - I hope he
got it right}
>
>This brings up the obvious question: Why are the calling her a bark?
>
>
Artistic license?
Actually, the test of the story never uses the word "bark". She is simply
referred to throughout as "H.M.B Endeavor".
Peter Beeston
sterned, without headrails and of full form. In the case of ENDEAVOUR, this
is the sense in which the word is used - not with reference to her rig which
was that of a ship..
To quote Falconer (1780), "Our northern mariners, who are trained in the
coal trade, apply this distinction (bark) to a broad-sterned ship, which
carries no ornamental figure on the stem or prow".
Peter Beeston
have
>>a look. She's actually *ship* rigged, not bark-rigged. She crosses three
>>yards on the fore and main masts, two on the mizzen, and two on the 'sprit
>>for good measure.
>
news.planet.net.au
the distinction is but thats what HMB Stands for. It was originally built
to carry coal so maybe thats what a bark does.
Keith (no, not that Keith) <kbetty@!Nospam!.telusplanet.net> wrote in
article
Andrew C. Toppan
> the distinction is but thats what HMB Stands for. It was originally built
> to carry coal so maybe thats what a bark does.
A ship that carries coal is a collier.
"Bark" refers to the rig, not the role.
Vince Brannigan
"Andrew C. Toppan" wrote:
> news.planet.net.au (delg...@planet.net.au) was seen to write:
> > the distinction is but thats what HMB Stands for. It was originally built
> > to carry coal so maybe thats what a bark does.
>
> A ship that carries coal is a collier.
>
> "Bark" refers to the rig, not the role.
IIRC two of my very old sources referred to other craft as His Majesty's Arrmed
Cutter and His Majesty's Schooner
Most Barks were merchant ships and therefore might have been various types of
fleet auxiliaries. Cuttters and Schooners were used in the revenue service.
Vince
Ian MacLure
[SNIP]
> To quote Falconer (1780), "Our northern mariners, who are trained in the
> coal trade, apply this distinction (bark) to a broad-sterned ship, which
> carries no ornamental figure on the stem or prow".
And Endeavour started her life as a collier did she not?
Out of Newcastle?
IBM
John Lee
> A national newspaper had a nice picture of a replica of H.M.B Endeavor
> today, on her way from Oz to B.C.
>
> 1. What does H.M.B mean? What distinguished an H.M.B. from an H.M.S.?
>
> 2. Can Oz posters say if this is the same replica I saw tooling around
> Sydney harbour (on diesels) about 5 years ago? (When a family member asked
> if it was the original, our Oz cousin responded that it was, and still had
> the original diesels.)
<snip>
1. His Majesty's Bark.
2. Depends how accurately you remember what you saw 5 years ago. It could
just about have been the Endeavour replica, but there was also a
rather silly replica of the Bounty that used to do trips round Sydney
Harbour.
--
"If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in
John doubts; but if he will be content to begin with
doubts, he shall end in certainties."
George Black
wrote:
snip
>1. His Majesty's Bark.
>
>2. Depends how accurately you remember what you saw 5 years ago. It could
>just about have been the Endeavour replica, but there was also a
>rather silly replica of the Bounty that used to do trips round Sydney
>Harbour.
One replica got built at Whangarei and attended the Cook Bi-centennial at Ship
Cove.
It was later used in a film and had at one time a writ attatched to the mast.
Tomorrow is only a day away.
George
Keith (no, not that Keith)
John Lee wrote in
It could
>just about have been the Endeavour replica, but there was also a
>rather silly replica of the Bounty that used to do trips round Sydney
>Harbour.
>
>--
It may well have been the Bounty replica; I just saw it (from the Opera
House) going down the channel and don't remember the name. It was an
obvious tourist trap.
Keith (no, not that Keith)
http://www.barkendeavour.com.au/
They also refer to
which is a group in Rhode Island which is to dive on what may be the remains
of H.M. Bark Endeavor.
Note that all these folks refer to H.M.B., despite the ship rig.
--
K.B.
If they _are_ out to get you, are you still paranoid?
Vince Brannigan wrote in message <37F415A7...@pressroom.com>...