Naval signals
Bart Ludwig
I'm interested in naval signal flags and their meanings and I'm wondering
if anyone can tell me where to find a complete listing of all the flags
and their meanings. I've been able to find lists that cover a-z but I
haven't seen anything about combinations of two or more flags. Any one
know where I can find that kind of info?
Thanks in advance!
--
Bart Ludwig
blu...@gatewest.net
Dave Greenlee
In article <01bb53f7.57239d80$64e3...@bludwig.gatewest.net> Bart Ludwig
wrote:
>I'm interested in naval signal flags and their meanings and I'm wondering
>if anyone can tell me where to find a complete listing of all the flags
>and their meanings. I've been able to find lists that cover a-z but I
>haven't seen anything about combinations of two or more flags. Any one
>know where I can find that kind of info?
It's been a few years, but the _complete_ list of signals used to be
classified. A very thick book (ATP-1?) held a wide variety of standard
signals and was carried on the bridge (and other locations) of every ship in
the Navy. I don't remember if it was actually classified, but probably was
at least "For Official Use Only". However, even this book was not
_complete_. It was not unusual for special signals to be designated on a
temporary basis. A classified operation order might contain direction that
a particular flag hoist was to be used to signal "The Admiral has commenced
his nap." or something equally applicable to only a small group of vessels.
Brian C. Moum
In article <4piomn$a...@news-e2d.gnn.com>, DRGre...@gnn.com (Dave
Greenlee) wrote:
> In article <01bb53f7.57239d80$64e3...@bludwig.gatewest.net> Bart Ludwig
> wrote:
>
> >I'm interested in naval signal flags and their meanings and I'm wondering
> >if anyone can tell me where to find a complete listing of all the flags
> >and their meanings.
>
> It's been a few years, but the _complete_ list of signals used to be
> classified. A very thick book (ATP-1?) held a wide variety of standard
> signals and was carried on the bridge (and other locations) of every ship in
> the Navy. I don't remember if it was actually classified, but probably was
> at least "For Official Use Only".
Correct - still is classified, releasable to NATO only. But, you could
find something by looking for H.O. 102, known as pub 102, which has the
merchant fleet equivalents.
--
Brian
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate.
- S. Wright
Richard O'Keefe
The most famous one (hope I'm not going to be arrested) was Bravo Zulu,
which old salts recognize as "well done". There was also one for
"Splice the Mainbrace". Preceding the signal with the <Desig> pennant
meant to interpret the flags literally, so <Desig> Foxtrot Uniform Charlie
Kilo ..... meant something different than Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo....
without the <Desig> in front.
Dick OKeefe
MetaJohn
>It's been a few years, but the _complete_ list of signals used to be
>classified. A very thick book (ATP-1?) held a wide variety of standard
>signals and was carried on the bridge (and other locations) of every ship
in
>the Navy. I don't remember if it was actually classified, but probably
was
>at least "For Official Use Only". However, even this book was not
>_complete_. It was not unusual for special signals to be designated on a
>temporary basis. A classified operation order might contain direction
that
>a particular flag hoist was to be used to signal "The Admiral has
commenced
>his nap." or something equally applicable to only a small group of
vessels.
Yes, well any communications medium can be further "encoded" for
additional secrecy. The famous example being the use, by the Japanese, of
"AF" for an island they were keeping tabs on and preparing a "major
action" against. The decoders at Pearl Harbor wanted to prove that "AF"
was Midway, so they had Midway make a signal "in the clear" (it was felt
that the Japanese were not able to break our secure codes!) that their
desalinization equipment was faulty and they were short of potable water.
The next Japanese signal decoded had a reference to "AF" being short of
water. This bit of evidence was vital in that Nimitz based his fleet
dispositions upon it as confirmation of the intended target. From the
Japanese point of view they never failed to use the code word or group for
Midway" but they gave away information anyway.
In the "days of sail" it was considered to be an acceptable "ruse de
guerre" for a small ship to make furious signals to (non-existant) large
friends just over the horizon when caught down wind of a larger foe. A
"private signal" flag hoist was always used when men-o-war were in convoy
or sailing as a squdron, to guard against an enemy sail getting too close
without being identified.
There are many guides to "standard" two or three flag hoists, which
have come to have international meanings, however as the first reswponder
mentioned those with "special meaning" for the U.S. Navy are almost
certainly "classified" and change constantly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Live and Learn; Die and Forget It All. -folk wisdom-
LIve Fast; Die Young; Have A Good Lookin' Corpse!
********************************************************
There is an old belief
that on some distant shore
far from despair and grief
old friends shall meet once more.
***********************************************************
meta...@aol.com aka John Barker, @ NTC Great Lakes
ROGER A EUSTIS
In article: <4pndfn$o...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> meta...@aol.com (MetaJohn)
coughed quietly:
> There are many guides to "standard" two or three flag hoists, which
> have come to have international meanings, however as the first reswponder
> mentioned those with "special meaning" for the U.S. Navy are almost
> certainly "classified" and change constantly.
The International Maritime Code of signals is the Merchant marine signal
book and is avilable from Her Majesty's Stationery Office and all good
bookshops.
The USN and NATO code book referred to is ATP1c Vol II and is classified
RESTRICTED. Warships can use groups from either. When using groups from the
international Code the flaghoist (or voice message) is prefaced with the
flag/word 'INTERCO'.
The Interco series is a very flexible tool. For instance, the medical
section of 3 flag groups can pass the meaning
<<< Patient is delirious>> or <<<Stools are dark and tarry>>
The one I thought of making up as a T shirt for sale to medical students and
MDs in general just says frankly:
<<<I cannot form a diagnosis>>
Other potential top sellers include
<<<I am making best possible speed>>> - for joggers
<<< What is the depth of water over the bar? >>> Alcoholics in the
Maldives etc etc.
There should be a copy of the International Code (Yellow paperback A4) on
the bridge ,if not try the MCO. Hours of fun for the socially deprived
matelot.
Roger
--
"Caesar Adsum Iam Forte" - Golden Shred works motto
Sue Thing
><<<I cannot form a diagnosis>>
>Other potential top sellers include
> <<<I am making best possible speed>>> - for joggers
> <<< What is the depth of water over the bar? >>> Alcoholics in the
>Maldives etc etc.
Sorry, Roger. Somebody's beaten you to the punch. I received a mail-order
catalog that featured a woman's sleepshirt with the 3-flag combination:
"Request permission to lay alongside".
I was thinking of getting that one myself. :)
Sue
________________________________________
plbu...@indirect.com
186,000 miles per second:
It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
________________________________________
A R BREEN
In article <plburton.2...@indirect.com>,
Sue Thing <plbu...@indirect.com> wrote:
>In article <804439...@aaee.demon.co.uk> ROGER A EUSTIS <RO...@aaee.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>>Other potential top sellers include
>> <<<I am making best possible speed>>> - for joggers
>> <<< What is the depth of water over the bar? >>> Alcoholics in the
>>Maldives etc etc.
>
>Sorry, Roger. Somebody's beaten you to the punch. I received a mail-order
>catalog that featured a woman's sleepshirt with the 3-flag combination:
>"Request permission to lay alongside".
>
>I was thinking of getting that one myself. :)
>
Jackie Broome's collection of naval signals 'Make another signal'
includes one sent from a RN cruiser flagship to a yacht with
a 'very attactive young lady at the helm' (quote from book).
The admiral asked his flag leiutenent to make an appropriate
signal. The signal sent was:
INTERROGATIVE
KEEP STATION
CLOSE BY YOU
OVERNIGHT
as near as I can get it - someone can work out the exact flags
if they have a list of international and RN signals handy.
You should be able to shift a few of those.
| Andy Breen | Adran Ffiseg/Physics Department, UW/PC Aberystwyth |
| a...@aber.ac.uk | http://www.aber.ac.uk/~azb Tel: (44) 01970 621907 |
Unless this posting concerns the solar wind all opinions are purely personal
charmain...@gmail.com
> In article <804439...@aaee.demon.co.uk> ROGER A EUSTIS <RO...@aaee.demon.co.uk> writes:
>
>
>
> > <<<I am making best possible speed>>> - for joggers
> > <<< What is the depth of water over the bar? >>> Alcoholics in the
> >Maldives etc etc.
>
> Sorry, Roger. Somebody's beaten you to the punch. I received a mail-order
> catalog that featured a woman's sleepshirt with the 3-flag combination:
> "Request permission to lay alongside".
>
> I was thinking of getting that one myself. :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> plbu...@indirect.com
> 186,000 miles per second:
> It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
> ________________________________________
Wolffan
(in article<08aaed84-cc93-4e6a...@googlegroups.com>):
don’t you?
Ah. You’re using Google Groups. This explains much. Two things:
1 try to look at the timestamp in the post you’re replying to and thereby
avoid zombifiing necrothreads
2 get a real newsclient.
Peter Skelton
charmain...@gmail.com
Dear Peter! Hello!
Aren't you a pair of dolls! Sorry to have zombied you!
I am the granddaughter of a RN Medical Orderly who was torpedoed at Jutland. I have untold amounts of fun tormenting my uncle who is only 5 yrs older than me with all things naval. It fit a recent send to use the ptla hoist, so I was looking madly for an image before the moment was lost.
I didn't think to take the time to check time stamps, quite frankly!
I have always adored the Reader's Digest story. I read it decades ago!
What do you mean by a "real news client"?
Peter Skelton
There are a bunch of them, some free (thunderbird for example), some you pay for (agent for example. Many work as mail clients too. It's been some time since I went looking.
The hard part was getting the news feed free. Google 'free usenet'. I don't bother much now. Usenet is rather polluted with politics and irrelevance.
charmain...@gmail.com
Jeff Crowell
There's a blast from the past! Glad to hear you're still kicking, Peter.
Be a shame if we actually were able to maintain a Naval-content thread here. Makes me wish for the days of the old USTAFISH. I append below one of my old Conehead tales. Now set material condition TINS.
Jeff Crowell
During flight operations aboard the carrier, the aircraft is taxied up to
the cat. Since the aircraft taxies right up the cat track for about an
airplane length to engage, it is very clear to the taxi director how
well-aligned the bird is. Left-right signals are given very carefully, and
the director uses body English to tell you how much of a correction to crank
in by the magnitude of his gestures. It's amazing how precisely they can
position you. These deck crew are 18- and 19-year old high school graduates
who do their jobs very well, and it is the rare pilot indeed who does not
readily acknowledge that his (or her) butt depends on that. As a pilot, you
learn to trust those yellowshirts* implicitly.
This process begins very early in your career.
While trying to qual aboard the Lexington in the A-4, I was in need of fuel,
so they steered me out of the 'waiting to cat' line. The yellowshirt taxied
me over on the starboard side, well clear of the JBD for the starboard cat.
So well clear, in fact, that I started to get nervous about how close to the
side I was getting. The closer to the side I got, the more my feet pressed
on the brakes. There was no conscious input from me, it was every body part
for itself by then. Much to the annoyance of the yellowshirt, I finally
bled off all airspeed and dribbled to a halt about 10 feet from the edge. I
could look down at a 60 degree decline or so (it felt more like about 110
degrees!) and see blue water. Lots of blue water. The yellowshirt gave me
the 'come-ahead' signal (by now he was standing on my left, at about 10
o'clock, and I gave him the NFW signal--shook my head emphatically. He gave
me the stinkeye and repeated the come-ahead. No dice. I'm looking to see
if I can find a reverse gear for this damn chariot. So the taxi director
pulled up the mouthpiece of his flight deck comms radio, and the next thing
I heard over the radio was the voice of The Boss. Not Bruce Springsteen,
mind you, but the poor bastard up in PriFly who is trying to get us all
qualled without blood being shed or airplanes bent.
"Guntrain 210, follow the directions of your %&$*%(^%)$ yellowshirt. He's
been doing this a goddamn lot longer than you have!" (well, who hasn't?)
"210, Roger," I meekly reply.
Eeeeeasy forward on the loud lever, and we start to move forward again. I
should tell you at this point that the ejection seat for the Scooter is a
zero-zero seat. As long as I don't have a downward vector at the time, and
am level attitude with respect to the horizon, I can (supposedly) punch out
at ground level and get at least one swing in the chute before landing; it
helps that I’m about 70 feet above the sea at this point (unless I land back
on the deck, of course). But let's look at the clauses in the previous
sentence again. I've been taught that if the nosewheel goes over the side
and I haven't left yet, I have to hang on, stay with the bird until I hit
the water (upside down, in all likelihood) and then try to get out. Yeah, I
might (maybe even probably, at my glacially slow present speed) hang up in
the catwalk instead of going all the way over, but who wants to shoot those
dice? Once the nose drops, if I eject I'll fly out over the water, outward
rather than up, and make a big splash before the parachute can blossom.
This is not recommended, as a general rule.
Forward I creep. Every bump of the rock-hard tires on the ripples in the
nonskid deck coating sends a corresponding jolt up to my quivering rectum.
The yellowshirt has decided to give me The Treatment for being stubborn, so
forward we go until the nosegear bumps up against the 5" high (and half-inch
thick) curb that separates the deck from the catwalk and thence the deep
blue. I lurch to a stop with an audible 'clunk.' Wham! That second noise
is my rectum slamming shut. You couldn't hammer a needle in that thing with
a 10-pound sledgehammer.
The pilot in the A-4 sits just above the nosegear, so I can see 'way more
blue water in front of (and below!) me than I am comfortable with. It’s
gonna take forever and a crowbar to pry my ass off the seat cushion at the
end of this little adventure…
Now, finally, I get a 'left turn' signal. Full left rudder turns the
nosegear 90 degrees, goose the power, and now I'm paralleling the deck edge.
Turn further left and I'm facing inboard, and the ol’ heart rate finally
drops down below a million. The yellowshirt makes fists with his hands--
brakes on—then rolls his arms one over the other like a basketball referee
calling traveling, and the blueshirts run in to chain me down. I sag back
and try to calm down while the grapes fuel me up.
Hey, piece of cake. I do this all the time. Jesus Christ!
* Flight deck crew have color-coded jerseys (and, some of them, entertaining
nicknames)
Yellow Shirt – Taxi Director
Brown Shirt – Plane Captain (Turd Shirt)
Red Shirt – Ordnanceman (Ordie, BB Stacker, Cannon Cocker)
Blue Shirt – Aviation Bosun’s Mate (Planehandler, Chock & Chain Gang)
Green Shirt – Arresting Gear and Catapult crew (Hook Chaser)
Purple Shirt – Fuel Crew (Grapes)
White Shirt – Catapult Officer (Shooter), LSO, Flight Deck Officer, Safety
Officer