What's a "corpen"?
alumshubby
refer to some sort of evolution -- like (I may be misremembering)
"Hotel Corpen" for flight quarters aboard a destroyer, or a ship
steaming in formation "corpening around" when turning. Could some
kindly shipdriving individual enlighten me?
BF Lake
"alumshubby" <alums...@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:1123763765.8...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
ISTR is is short for "course pendant", for signalling with numbers with to
order a new course. Not sure how it worked up to WW2 since the RN had
their own way of doing things,(HOOD to PoW signals eg) but when we all used
NATO signalling post-war, a "corpen" was used for a "wheel", where ships
turn in succession , ie in column following in the wake of the ship leading
while a "turn" meant a "turn" where each ship turns at the same time to the
new course.
If the number(s) of the new course in the hoist were before the corpen or
turn flag then it meant you turned to port and if the numbers came after
then you turned to starboard.
Regards,
Barry
TOliver
"alumshubby" wrote ...
"Corpen" is often used in the vernacular and in official communications
(Voice, flag, flashing fight) to refer to a course, actual or planned, of a
ship during a particular evolution...."Foxtrot Corpen", the proposed or
likely course for flight ops (fixed wing), "Romeo Corpen", the same for
replenishment. There's a "Corpen" flag, just as there's a "Turn" flag in
the bags.
...But then there's the manuever which bears the title "Corpen"......
Simplisticly stated, there are two types of turning maneuvers practiced by
ships in company or in formation.
"Turn" - changing course so that a "True Bearing" relationship is maintained
between two or more ships....
Ships A & B or steaming together in "Line Ahead" on a course of 000, with
Ship B 1000 yards astern of Ship A. A 90 degree "Turn" to Starboard is
ordered. The ships turn (at the same time) and Ship B is no longer 1000
yards astern, but 1000 yards on the Starboard beam of Ship A.
"Corpen" - changing course so that a "Relative Bearing" relationship is
maintained between two or more ships...
(....and likely to be referred to as "wheeling" which is quite descriptive
at times , but not always)
Ships A & B steaming as above. A 90 degree "Corpen" to Starboard is orderd.
Ship A turns 90 degrees to new course 090. Ship B delays her turn, waiting
to turn to at the same point in the ocean at which A turned, in order to
remain in "LinAhead", 1000 yards astern of A after the maneuver. Complexity
is added when formations become larger or oriented in different fashion,
with 90 degree "corpens" by ships in "Line Abeam", requiring the same timed
"wheeling" motion practiced by foot soldiers wheeling" in a marching
formation.
"Corpens" become highly complex evolutions when practiced by large
formations of different types of ships with some vessels in screening
stations. Ships on screening stations often must increase speed rapidly and
steam in the paths of other ships to reach their new stations. While a CVs
turning into the wind and its escorts maintaining relative station may not
have been ordered asa "Corpen" the net effect is a "Corpen".
The classic "enabling environment" for the collision of CVs and escorts
screening ahead occurs when the CV turns over 90 degree or so to a course
for flight operations, and one or more of the screen must race across the
formation to its new station showing a wake (and in the old days a pronouced
puff of smoke) as evidence of smartness at station keeping, lest the screen
commander, CV's CO or an embarked flag (aboard all CVs these days I guess,
there being more ADMs than CARDIVs) accuse the screening vessel of
sluggardly delay and the smartness of a Bulgarian coast guard garbage scow.
With this bee under his tail, woe unto the DD OD?CO who neglects to predict
the inevitable changes in relative bearing created by the CV's turn and his
own manuevers and has willfully or accidentally chosen the cross the CV's
bow, that moment in time when "Close Aboard" may become shockingly defined
for all those within visual range.
There's a whole lesson at NAVOCs in one dose.
Tomorrow you will meet the "Williamson Turn" AKA "Consternation among the
Plane Guards following in your wake."
TMO
BF Lake
"TOliver" <tolive...@Hot.rr.com> wrote in message
news:mAIKe.160289$X76.1...@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
> "alumshubby" wrote ...
>
> > In various naval-flavored technothrillers, I've seen "corpen" used to
> > refer to some sort of evolution -- like (I may be misremembering)
> > "Hotel Corpen" for flight quarters aboard a destroyer, or a ship
> > steaming in formation "corpening around" when turning. Could some
> > kindly shipdriving individual enlighten me?
>
> "Corpen" is often used in the vernacular and in official communications
> (Voice, flag, flashing fight) to refer to a course, actual or planned, of
a
> ship during a particular evolution...."Foxtrot Corpen", the proposed or
> likely course for flight ops (fixed wing), "Romeo Corpen", the same for
> replenishment. There's a "Corpen" flag, just as there's a "Turn" flag in
> the bags.
snip good stuff
Some minutia wrt to "foxtrot corpen" can be added. The signal flag for F
has been flown since forever by ships with aircraft to indicate "I am
operating aircraft", which tells other ships to keep out of the way because
she can't take the usual avoiding action to prevent collision, so the other
ships have to do all the avoiding. In the alphabetical code F is "foxtrot"
(was "fox") so Flag Foxtrot. So you can get Foxtrot Corpen as a slang
expression for Flying Course.
So when operating aircraft , at some point the ship will turn to the "flying
course" which puts the relative wind in the best direction to give the
aircraft the most lift for launch and recovery (ie when a carrier "turns
into the wind") The "flying course" has to be worked out ahead of time
depending on what relative wind you want , say 30 degrees on the port bow,
or whatever, based on the true wind, etc, so the carrier can announce what
the flying course will be.
Carrier aircraft at least up to the 1960s had only a magnetic compass, while
ships used gyro compasses which gives things in "True". So you had to be
very careful in speaking. You have the "flying course" in True. You need
to work out what this is in Magnetic (variation East magnetic least, so if
the flying course is 090 and variation is 23E then that's 067 magnetic)
The convention was (RCN anyway) that when talking to the aircraft on the
radio, you gave them the " Foxtrot Corpen" (067) while the 090 course was
always called the Flying Course (used within the ship and for bridge
signalling, but not used with the aircraft) So if you were an "air
controller" or supervising one, you "understood" that Foxtrot Corpen was
always in magnetic, and Flying Course was always in True.
Regards,
Barry
Greg Surratt
wrote:
>"Corpen" is often used in the vernacular and in official communications
>(Voice, flag, flashing fight) to refer to a course, actual or planned, of a
>ship during a particular evolution...."Foxtrot Corpen", the proposed or
>likely course for flight ops (fixed wing), "Romeo Corpen", the same for
>replenishment. There's a "Corpen" flag, just as there's a "Turn" flag in
>the bags.
And don't forget the latest addition - Inmarsat Corpen - The zig-zag
course designed to maintain the best percentage of connectivity
without blocking the antenna to satellite angle with the mast. ;-)
Richard O'Keefe
for example meant that the formation was to change course 90 degrees to the
right with all ships maintaining the same relative bearing to the guide.
"Turn niner" was again a 90 degree course change to the right with all ships
maintaining the same true bearing to the guide.
Dick OKeefe
Andy Ashworth
Richard O'Keefe <rok...@ptd.net> typed:
According my interpretation of the current NATO tactical signalling bible,
both Corpen and Turn require a direction to be indicated when altering by
the relative method. Corpen Stbd 9 is a 90 degree relative wheel to Stbd,
while Corpen Port 9 is a 90 degree relative wheel to Port; in a turn ships
preserve "true" bearings and distances from *their* guides (not necessarily
*the* guide) while in wheels "welative" bearings are preserved.
Cheers
--
Andy (proud to have called myself a CCY for a while!)
Andy Ashworth
Peter H. Granzeau <pgr...@cox.net> typed:
> right would be "Turn 9" or "Corpen 9" and turns to the left would be
> "9 Corpen" or "9 Turn". And of course, changes to true course would
> be similarly signaled: "Turn 090", "000 Corpen".
Current issue of ATP1 Vol II has the version I describe - if it hasn't all
my fleetwork students are being told wrong! :)
--
Andy
TOliver
"Andy Ashworth" <andy_at_the_hypen_dash_ashworths_dot_uk> wrote in message
news:5uKdnUvzKOM...@brightview.com...
Isn't ATP-1A (or its follow-ons) classified as "CCONFIDENTIAL"? Of course
that never prevented the Soviet shadowers from having a copy or two.
TMO
an...@yeoman-es.co.uk
therein, due to their unchanging nature, have no classification.
Cheers
Andy
BF Lake
"TOliver" <tolive...@Hot.rr.com> wrote
>
> "Andy Ashworth" <andy_at_the_hypen_dash_ashworths_dot_uk> wrote in message
snip
I think nobody has mentioned the useful signal:
Interrogative, Church Pendant, Corpen
Meaning ,."Where the Christ are you going?!"
Regards,
Barry