Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea uniform question
moggi...@gmail.com
just made up?
http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target35.html
http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target22.html
http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target2.html
And this photo of Captain Crane shows an insignia:
http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target25.html
Is that a standard rank pin for captain? Is it supposed to be silver?
Here, Admiral Nelson wears four stars on his collar:
http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target49.html
In some episodes he wears three. Which one would be correct?
Thanks for any info!
Mog
zzbu...@netscape.net
moggie2...@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, I always wondered, were these uniforms real in some service, or
> just made up?
Mostly made up.
> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target35.html
That's what an army uniform would like if you were
on a vogage to the bottom of the Pentagon.
Jack Linthicum
Carrying the value them a step further, Allen points out that his
production assistant, Paul Zastupnevich originally designed a complete
wardrobe of uniforms ranging from the mess clerk to the Admiral
himself.
"We had to have a military appearance," Allen states, "yet we could not
duplicate any existing uniform of any army or navy in the world. In
addition, we had to take into account the ever changing modes and
modernization of military uniforms. I think Paul (Zastupnevich) dreamed
up our Department of Marine Science uniforms one day while rotating his
thoughts between World War II and a space trip of the
future.http://www.vttbots.com/voyage_overview.html
http://www.daffronanddelaney.com/Research.htm sources
http://www.stomptokyo.com/badmoviereport/IRO/IRO007-voyage-bottom-sea.html
movie with stilleto heels
Joe Osman
I would imagine that having nothing that would catch on the side of the
air ducts/secret transportation system when the Captain or XO was taken
over by some outside force was a top priority. Second would be the
ability to keep the wearer from being electrocuted when he was thrown
against large banks of blinking multicolored lights.
Joe
Mog
> thrown against large banks of blinking multicolored lights.
The strange thing is that those banks of blinking lights were actually
Air Force computers bought by Irwin Allen's company. So at some point
that design actually made some sort of sense to someone. Given that
nowadays any pc is more powerful than those huge computers, I think the
Seaview would have a lot of extra room to move around in, if they
replaced those walls of blinking lights with a few Dells.
Mog
Mog
I'm thinking that might have been a green army uniform jacket on some
of the pictures. Since the first season was shot in black and white it
probably passed as navy blue. The shirts...may have been khaki army
dress shirts. I have no idea on the trousers or shoes.
About Capt. Crane's collar insignia, would that be gold or silver for
his rank? I've seen that pin for sale in both colours.
DeepSea
news:1119708601.0...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
That's essentially what happened with the 688s. When the class was
designed, it required a small room across from the wardroom passageway to
house the ship's computer systems. By the time the ship actually saw fleet
service, the room had been converted into what is commonly known as "The
Nine-Man" - a berthing compartment usually used for the junior officers and
sometimes the senior cooks, and/or guests. The reduced size of data
processing equipment allowed some relief from the major lack of berthing
space problems - although the tremendous air-conditioning remained, making
the Nine-Man the coldest berthing on the boat.
--
DS
zzbu...@netscape.net
Well somewhere along the line in those photos,
Crain and Nelson got promoted.
Crain from Commander to Captain, and Nelson
from 3-Star to 4-Star Admiral.
Silver is Commander Insignia, and Gold for Captain.
>
> Mog
zzbu...@netscape.net
Well somewhere along the line in those photos,
Jack Linthicum
Landmark, landmark...a coherent, reasoned post without ..... well, you
know.
zzbu...@netscape.net
Coherent has no meanng with morons and submarines,
which is they are nuke targetted, rather than
targetted by marines morons with PBS.
DeepSea
news:1119752156....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
You are correct in that the silver oak leaf insignia is for Commander,
however, the gold oak leaf is actually Lieutenant Commander. The rank of
Captain in the Navy is O-6 (equivalent to a full Colonel in the land/air
services) - and the insignia is a silver eagle.
--
DS
Andy Dingley
<zzbu...@netscape.net> wrote:
> Coherent has no meanng with morons and submarines,
> which is they are nuke targetted, rather than
> targetted by marines morons with PBS.
Ah, he's back on the meds.
Thomas Schoene
Nah, they switched to a new beta version fo the software.
--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when
wrong to be put right." - Senator Carl Schurz, 1872
Jack Linthicum
Low level evidence it's alive, back when google switched to this beta
configuration there was a misssent transmission which resembled someone
hitting the wrong button. IE the "reply" at the bottom of the post
rather than the "options" at the top.
Mog
I thought that was the case, because i saw some for sale. But, in the
series, it looks like the insignia is indeed the silver oak leaf.
I just watched "Run Silent, Run Deep" and the dress uniform worn by
Clark Gable in his office in the beginning is very similar to what
Crane wears. In fact even the belt is similar. So i'm guessing it's
some sort of WW2 -era dress khaki worn aboard the Seaview.
As for the 3 stars/4 stars insignia, i saw a three star pin which was
labeled "Vice Admiral". Is that different from the 3-star Admiral pin
in any way?
Best regards,
Mog
DeepSea
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
There is a bit of a twist in the Navy concept of 'CAPTAIN' that sometimes
makes it difficult to understand. The ground/air services have a rank of
CAPTAIN (O-3) that is usually held by company commanders or equivalents.
This rank corresponds to a LIEUTENANT in the Navy, typically a senior
division officer or junior department head. As I indicated before, the
Navy rank of CAPTAIN (O-6) is equivalent to a full Colonel. At the time
the VttBotS was running, this was a typical rank for the commanding
officer of a major command such as an aircraft carrier, an SSBN, or
cruiser.
The Navy also has the concept of a CAPTAIN being the Commanding Officer
of a ship, regardless of rank. This is the situation Crane fell into.
He was the Commanding Officer of the Seaview, and was refered to as
Captain Crane, but in terms of rank, he was only a COMMANDER (O-5, silver
oak leaf insignia), or Lieutenant Colonel equivalent.
The three stars is the correct insignia for a Vice Admiral. If you
realize that a Vice Admiral can be referred to as 'Admiral' directly, in
informal conversation (similar to Lieutenant Commander), it may help
alleviate some of the confusion.
There has been a restructuring of the Navy senior ranks since VttBotS
that may be causing some confusion about the appropriate number of
admirals stars. When the show was running, the ranks ran as follows:
1 star Commodore
2 stars Rear Admiral
3 starts Vice Admiral
4 stars Admiral
5 stars Fleet Admiral
This situation caused even more confusion. Squadron commanders usually
held the rank of CAPTAIN (O-6). This was awkward when they embarked in
one of their units, as they were rightly entitled to be refered to as
CAPTAIN, but naval tradition held that a ship can have only one Captain -
a title reserved for the Commanding Officer. The embarked O-6 was often
refered to as 'Commodore' rather than 'Captain', basically given a
nominal boost in rank to show the embarked commander's seniority over the
ship's commanding officer, without treading on the hallowed title
reserved for a ship's commanding officer. Eventually the senior officer
rank structure was changed as follows:
1 star Rear Admiral (lower half)
2 stars Rear Admiral (upper half)
3 starts Vice Admiral
4 stars Admiral
5 stars Fleet Admiral
The practice of refering to an embarked O-6 as Commodore has been
formalized and continues today.
--
DS
Mog
thanks for the very informative reply. In spite of Irwin Allen's
original claim that their uniforms should be unlike any existing ones,
they did use a lot of surplus from all armed forces everywhere, in
props and costumes.
Some collector's seem to have found a few surviving costumes. Here is a
jacket worn by Chief Curly Jones in the first season:
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Chief%2001.jpg
Sleeve detail:
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Chief%2002.jpg
I'm not sure what his rank was, they just called him "Chief" throughout
the season' run.
This next picture shows his shirt (I have not been able to identify his
visor hat. Any ideas?) with some rank on it.
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Chief%2003.jpg
Here is a photo of Chip Morton, the first mate, wearing his dress
jacket. I am going to assume this photo was reversed since his ribbon
bars are on the wrong side.
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Morton%2003.jpg
Jacket by itself:
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Morton%2001.jpg
Label:
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Morton%2002.jpg
I noticed it says "Lan Car". I'm not sure whether that is the store or
whatever.
Capt. Crane's jacket:
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/voyage-props/00004.html
Some of the pictures are missing the sleeve stripes. Seems to have 3
regular stripes and 1 thick stripe in one photo. I'm unsure why that
is. Maybe was re-used in some other show.
Finally, Admiral Nelson's jacket:
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/voyage-props/00018.html
I wish I knew who would sell it. Anyway, 3 buttons, sewn-in "belt", and
the label says it was made "in accordance with applicable USN uniform
regulations".
I'm unsure why many of his publicity shots show him in green army
jackets.
http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/01%20Fly%20S%2028.jpg
That one in particular. By the way, recognise any of the ribbon bars on
his chest in that photo? Are they real, or made up?
Thanks, I'm enjoying this topic as you can tell. ;-)
Jack Linthicum
As a possible additonal point of confusion the Commander made Captain
in the second season. Paralleling Hollywood and their insistence on
'progress', I remember a Jackie Cooper vehicle where he plays a Navy
doctor. Every year he jumped a rank and ended up as at least a Captain
with all of his superiors making Admiral and the EMs CPO.
I once (1959) saluted a Commodore in uniform at Newport War College and
called him by his correct rank. That got 10 minutes of conversation on
how observant I was and how the Navy needed officers like me. I still
went to the Phillipines.
Justin Broderick
Mog wrote:
> Some collector's seem to have found a few surviving costumes. Here is a
> jacket worn by Chief Curly Jones in the first season:
> http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Chief%2001.jpg
> Sleeve detail:
> http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Chief%2002.jpg
> I'm not sure what his rank was, they just called him "Chief" throughout
> the season' run.
I have my doubts about a chief petty officer wearing that jacket, the
rank looks like lieutenant-commander. A mis-identification?
> This next picture shows his shirt (I have not been able to identify his
> visor hat. Any ideas?) with some rank on it.
> http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket%20Chief%2003.jpg
>
The sleeve stripes are rating badges for a USN chief boatswain's mate
with the eagle cut off. On the top of the arch you can just see what's
left of the eagle's perch and feet. USN chief petty officers did not
wear stripes on shirts, just on the jacket sleeves.
The cap badge looks like merchant marine.
>
> Finally, Admiral Nelson's jacket:
> http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/voyage-props/00018.html
> I wish I knew who would sell it. Anyway, 3 buttons, sewn-in "belt", and
> the label says it was made "in accordance with applicable USN uniform
> regulations".
Those jackets all seem to be USN "service dress khaki." The USN
officer's version would have shoulder boards for rank instead of sleeve
stripes.
> I'm unsure why many of his publicity shots show him in green army
> jackets.
> http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/01%20Fly%20S%2028.jpg
Maybe it was supposed to be the winter uniform and they didn't wear it
as much? On a page posted earlier in this thread there are group
photos of several cast members in army green.
They have replaced the army buttons with something else, I can't tell
what. Non-military, though.
> By the way, recognise any of the ribbon bars on
> his chest in that photo? Are they real, or made up?
>
They are real:
Row 1: Navy Cross, Navy Distinguished Service Medal, Silver Star.
Row 2: Purple Heart, Presidential Unit Citation, American Defense
Service Medal.
Row 3: American Campaign Medal, Asia-Pacific Campaign Medal, WW2
Victory Medal.
Row 4: National Defense Service Medal, Korean Service Medal, UN Korea
Medal.
The ADSM indicates he was serving before WW2 began. The ribbons after
that indicate service in WW2 and Korea.
--Justin
Jack Linthicum
Not to stir up old memories but might this "Chief" be a warrant officer
of some time, warrant officers are addressed as "Chief" in the U.S.
Navy, with the odd stripes being a sign of "image creep". The commander
with the wide stripe suggests something like this.
DeepSea
news:1119885440.3...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> Justin Broderick wrote:
>> Mog wrote:
>>
>> > Some collector's seem to have found a few surviving costumes. Here
>> > is a jacket worn by Chief Curly Jones in the first season:
>> > http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket
>> > %20Chief%2001.jpg Sleeve detail:
>> > http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket
>> > %20Chief%2002.jpg I'm not sure what his rank was, they just called
>> > him "Chief" throughout the season' run.
>>
>> I have my doubts about a chief petty officer wearing that jacket, the
>> rank looks like lieutenant-commander. A mis-identification?
>>
>> > This next picture shows his shirt (I have not been able to identify
>> > his visor hat. Any ideas?) with some rank on it.
>> > http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/images/finders/Voyage%20Jacket
>> > %20Chief%2003.jpg
>> >
>>
>> The sleeve stripes are rating badges for a USN chief boatswain's mate
>> with the eagle cut off. On the top of the arch you can just see
>> what's left of the eagle's perch and feet. USN chief petty officers
>> did not wear stripes on shirts, just on the jacket sleeves.
>>
>> The cap badge looks like merchant marine.
>>
>> >
>> > Finally, Admiral Nelson's jacket:
>> > http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/html_lib/voyage-props/00018.ht
>> > ml I wish I knew who would sell it. Anyway, 3 buttons, sewn-in
I'm not familiar with the practive of adressing warrant officers as
'Chief'. In informal conversation we addressed warrant officers with
made up forms of address based on their technical specialty such as
"Gunner" for ordnance types and "Sparks" for communicators.
--
DS
Jack Linthicum
http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/officers/o-rank.html
There was a heated discussion on another thread in this newsgroup on
the subject of warrants, writs and the like. Started with the inocuous
phrase "how do you address a Navy warrant officer?" The elimination of
W-1 makes all Navy Warrant officers "Chief" Warrant officers, a form of
address I have found those in those ranks prefer. Much preferred when
they were commissioning warrant officers to lieutenant was "I want to
be one number ahead of HIM" and point to a lieutenant.
Justin Broderick
Jack Linthicum wrote:
> Not to stir up old memories but might this "Chief" be a warrant officer
> of some time, warrant officers are addressed as "Chief" in the U.S.
> Navy, with the odd stripes being a sign of "image creep".
Well, it's all made up so I guess we can't rule anything out, but the
same guy is wearing CPO chevrons on his khaki shirt, and in some of the
other photos a different guy (the XO?) is wearing the coat with LCdr
stripes.
> The commander
> with the wide stripe suggests something like this.
Those pages have just got the jackets mixed up. The one with admiral's
stripes (one broad, three medium) is ID'd as the captain's, the one
with the commander's stripes (three medium) is ID's as the admiral's.
But in the publicity shots they are clearly the other way round.
--Justin
Jack Linthicum
Either they were college roommates and liked to trade clothes or they
couldn't remember what they were wearing when they went to bed.
Mog
something caught my eye. Crane wears an oak leaf, alright, but only on
the left side of his collar! And on the other side is some pin of the
same size...looks like a ship's wheel. At first i thought it was a
"Command at Shore" pin...but the outline of the ship's wheel nuked that
idea. I'll try to find a photo of a closeup...might help identifying it.
DeepSea
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:
That would be based on the Navy's staff corps cllar insignia regs - they
wear the rank on one collar (right) and the symbol of their staff corps on
the other (left). Only line officers wear the rank insignia on both
collars.
--
DS
Mog
> wear the rank on one collar (right) and the symbol of their staff corps on
> the other (left). Only line officers wear the rank insignia on both
> collars.
What staff corps has a golden insignia that resembles a ship's wheel?
Mog
DeepSea
news:1120853116.2...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
The device you describe is not a staff corps insignia. It is a warrant
officer specialty insignia (Operations Technician). IIRC, it is no longer
used as that warrant officer specialty was phased out in the 90s.
--
DS
Mog
>officer specialty insignia (Operations Technician). IIRC, it is no longer
>used as that warrant officer specialty was phased out in the 90s.
Thanks! Strange that it would be on Crane's collar. I watched the pilot
episode again today and Lee Crane was introduced as "Commander Crane,
on loan from the Navy". I think Chip Morton has a similar insignia.
Does anyone know an online source to buy that insignia?
DeepSea
news:1120860695.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com:
I think you'll have to look at collector or army/navy surplus websites.
That insignia is probably no longer in production.
One other possibility is to use the Quartermaster rating's informal metal
rating badge and paint it gold, but it will be rather large for a collar.
--
DS
Jack Linthicum
These seem to be gold and not visible as a photo:
http://www.milfordarmynavy.com/departments/navy/collarwogp.jsp
The other possibility was a Buddhist
chaplain:http://www.tioh.hqda.pentagon.mil/branches/BranchandCollarInsignia.htm
Mog
That would make all the Seaview officers buddhists. I'm still trying to
find an adequate screen grab.
Is it normal for a Commander to wear that Ops Tech insignia on the
right collar?
DeepSea
@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
No. IRL, it is worn only by warrant officers, not line or staff corps
officers, and it is on the left collar tab (of the wearer).
--
DS
Justin Broderick
"Mog" <moggi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120860695.5...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >The device you describe is not a staff corps insignia. It is a warrant
> >officer specialty insignia (Operations Technician). IIRC, it is no
longer
> >used as that warrant officer specialty was phased out in the 90s.
>
> Thanks! Strange that it would be on Crane's collar. I watched the pilot
> episode again today and Lee Crane was introduced as "Commander Crane,
> on loan from the Navy".
I think this must be another way of "fictionalizing" their uniforms. Line
officers, those who can command ships, would wear the rank insignia on both
sides of the collar. And the operations technician WO specialty hadn't yet
been created when the series was being made.
--Justin
DeepSea
news:sf1Ae.5872$8f7....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
I wasn't aware of the series preceeding the Operations Technician
specialty. I also found out my memory is hosed - the Operations Technician
Specialty was not phased out, just reduced in size. A picture of the
insignia can be found in the Navy Uniform Regs - here:
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/Unireg/Chapter4.
PDF
--
DS
Jack Linthicum
I don't think the address made it whole, the "PDF" got sent to the next
line
DeepSea
>> ter4. PDF
>>
>>
>>
>> -- DS
>
> I don't think the address made it whole, the "PDF" got sent to the
> next line
>
>
Here's try #2:
http://buperscd.technology.navy.mil/bup_updt/upd_CD/BUPERS/Unireg/Chapter
4. PDF
--
DS
Mog
link posted before. As an aside, I was watching today's episode, it
sunk to the bottom. There was too much stock footage from the Robert
Mitchum movie "The Enemy Below" and the uniforms and sets didn't match
the episode. The funny thing: Captain Crane was in the "Enemy Below".
So he was seen both as a prisoner inside an enemy sub and on stock
footage on the destroyer he was XO on in the film. That was too
distracting.
Still, it's been my favourite show since i first turned the tv on
myself at age 2.
Justin Broderick
"DeepSea" <deep_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns968F5B28F7734...@151.164.30.42...
> "Justin Broderick" <jnola...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:sf1Ae.5872$8f7....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:
> > WO specialty hadn't yet been created when the series was being made.
> >
> I wasn't aware of the series preceeding the Operations Technician
> specialty.
Actually I was wrong. There was an Ops Technician WO, but the ship's helm
insignia hadn't been authorized yet. According to the 1965 "Bluejacket's
Manual," at the time Ops Tech wore the same crossed anchors as a bosun.
--Justin
Michael Mcneil
> The reduced size of data processing equipment allowed some relief from
> the major lack of berthing space problems - although the tremendous
> air-conditioning remained, making the Nine-Man the coldest berthing
> on the boat.
That would explain how they never got their uniforms dusty or snagged on
the pop rivets in the air-conditioning ducts.
Which just begs the question why the commander or captain and in some
cases the Admiral or guest (provided the guest was not the usual petite
blonde) always did the (not so dirty) dirty work.
One would have supposed there would be a division of the armed services
that were trained to cater for alien invasion evasion via the trunking.
Or don't they have marines on subs?
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Mog
> that were trained to cater for alien invasion evasion via the trunking.
Well, they all had incredibly short memories. One week they'd find
something hiding in the ducts and the following week they'd check
everywhere but the ducts. Sometimes they'd get invaded by aliens two or
three weeks in a row and then there would be an episode where they'd
be saying things like "An alien from outer space? Impossible." or
"there are no such things as flying saucers".
I just watched an episode where a giant whale swallowed a nuclear
device. Everyone was saying "I've never seen anything like this". But a
few weeks before they had their diving bell swallowed by a giant whale,
which, by the way, was the same since they re-used the whale stock
footage.
They also should fire the guy who paints the gate at their base. At
least three times that guy painted a huge X on the roof of Nelson's car
so the same helicopter would machine gun it off road killing everyone
but the Admiral.
With the exception of a few episodes, I think each episode was meant to
be self-contained and not really linked to the others.
Mog
damnya...@gmail.com
> Hi, I always wondered, were these uniforms real in some service, or
> just made up?
>
> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target35.html
>
> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target22.html
>
> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target2.html
>
> And this photo of Captain Crane shows an insignia:
> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target25.html
> Is that a standard rank pin for captain? Is it supposed to be silver?
>
> Here, Admiral Nelson wears four stars on his collar:
> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target49.html
> In some episodes he wears three. Which one would be correct?
>
> Thanks for any info!
>
> Mog
Crane is wearing the correct insignia for a sub commander, ( silver oak leif ) however the collar brass is reversed, the rank is worn on the right side. As far as the Admiral, his cuff insignia reflects 4 stars. Looks like irwin had an oops, in the prop department.
David Loewe, Jr.
>On Thursday, June 23, 2005 10:31:16 PM, moggi...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi, I always wondered, were these uniforms real in some service, or
>> just made up?
>>
>> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target35.html
>>
>> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target22.html
>>
>> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target2.html
>>
>> And this photo of Captain Crane shows an insignia:
>> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target25.html
>> Is that a standard rank pin for captain? Is it supposed to be silver?
>>
>> Here, Admiral Nelson wears four stars on his collar:
>> http://www.iann.net/vaults/voyage/target49.html
>> In some episodes he wears three. Which one would be correct?
>>
>> Thanks for any info!
>leif ) however the collar brass is reversed, the rank is worn on the
>right side.
>As far as the Admiral, his cuff insignia reflects 4 stars.
>Looks like irwin had an oops, in the prop department.
"Why is it, Scott, that we always have to respect their cultural context?
Why is it that they never seem to respect ours?"
President John P. Ryan in Executive Orders
