it's Biden
Raymond O'Hara
Raymond O'Hara
"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_tmdnUKm3avZOTLV...@rcn.net...
> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
>
make that NBC
William Black
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> "Raymond O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:_tmdnUKm3avZOTLV...@rcn.net...> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
>
> Who?
>
> --
> William Black
>
Google is your friend.
Fred J. McCall
:
:"Raymond O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
:> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
:>
:
:Who?
Well, that's a strike against Obama, in my view.
--
"It's always different. It's always complex. But at some point,
somebody has to draw the line. And that somebody is always me....
I am the law."
-- Buffy, The Vampire Slayer
John Carrier
What's Obama going to do when the first roll call gives the nomination to
Hillary?
R / John
Raymond O'Hara
"John Carrier" <jx...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4uudnUpNAoonmi3V...@comcast.com...
delegates are committed on the first roll call.
William Black
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1c91458f-9825-4510...@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Google is your friend.
--------------------------
You're going to have to explain why I should care.
Well, apart from the distressing possibility (probability?) of Obama
getting shot.
Having looked him up on Wikipedia (always a risky process) he seems to be
yet another undistinguished long serving senior politician with an expensive
haircut and an orange face, much the same as most other US politicians.
Oh yes, and he once pinched one of Kinnock's speeches...
Which probably says more about him that anything much else that's been said
so far for a British reader...
eatfastnoodle
wrote:
> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
He surely is loquacious. Who knows what kind of gaffes he will commit.
Dennis
> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
Barack isn't Biden his time anymore.
Dennis
tankfixer
oh...@hotmail.com says...
> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
So much for change and hope.
--
Meddle ye not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy and taste
Goode with Ketchup.
La N
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLV...@rcn.net>, raymond-
> oh...@hotmail.com says...
>> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
>
> So much for change and hope.
>
Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
- nil
dott.Piergiorgio
> Raymond O'Hara wrote:
>
>> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
>
> Barack isn't Biden his time anymore.
I think is best not relate about Italian and french puns around this
family name....
Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.
deem...@aol.com
> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>
> > In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLVnZ2dnUVZ_umdn...@rcn.net>, raymond-
> > oh...@hotmail.com says...
> >> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
>
> > So much for change and hope.
>
> Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
>
> - nil
I'm pretty sure a bit of common sense covers this prediction.
La N
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:64b38982-ded3-4dfa...@l64g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
****************
How so?
And, here comes the cynical *moi*. Those who support Bus^^^ McCain are
going to deride any VP choices of Obama *and* vice versa. When McCain picks
his running mate, we will see Obama supporters jeer his choice. Politics as
usual.
Having said that, I have seen / read lots of positives regarding Obama's
selection, save from Michael Moore (yes, I'm on his mailing list) who would
agree with you re. "so much for change and hope". He would have liked
Caroline Kennedy to throw her name forward.
I think that Biden was a "safe" choice.
- nilita
La N
"La N" <nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ih5sk.9504$%b7.7050@edtnps82...
Anyway, speaking as an erstwhile political hack, I can kind of understand
Obama's choice, although it would hurt the feelings of *some* Americans.
Joe Biden is quite respected internationally, and I do believe that Obama
would like to repair international relations which are at close to an
all-time low right now for the U.S.
- nil
tankfixer
says...
I can't see picking an old school Washington insider as VP a harbinger
of change or hope.
Maybe you can.
Now if he had picked a governor his message might still ring true.
La N
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> In article <2C3sk.9481$%b7.316@edtnps82>, nilita20...@yahoo.com
> says...
>>
>> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>> > In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLV...@rcn.net>, raymond-
>> > oh...@hotmail.com says...
>> >> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP
>> >> pick.
>> >
>> > So much for change and hope.
>> >
>>
>> Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
>>
>
> I can't see picking an old school Washington insider as VP a harbinger
> of change or hope.
>
> Maybe you can.
>
> Now if he had picked a governor his message might still ring true.
>
>
C'mon, Tanky, as an ardent Bus^^ McCain supporter, there is nobody that
Obama would pick that would satisfy you. You have already posted that you
could not see any reason to vote for Obama. Obviously at least half your
countrymen disagree with you.
And, as I mentioned in a previous post, I can see his rationale for picking
Biden, including his experience and regard in international affairs. You
USAians are pretty low in this regard right now, thanks to GWB, for cred and
respect.
- nilita
tankfixer
>
> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> news:MPG.231a888d3...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> > In article <2C3sk.9481$%b7.316@edtnps82>, nilita20...@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >>
> >> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> >> > In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLV...@rcn.net>, raymond-
> >> > oh...@hotmail.com says...
> >> >> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP
> >> >> pick.
> >> >
> >> > So much for change and hope.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
> >>
> >
> > I can't see picking an old school Washington insider as VP a harbinger
> > of change or hope.
> >
> > Maybe you can.
> >
> > Now if he had picked a governor his message might still ring true.
> >
> >
>
> C'mon, Tanky, as an ardent Bus^^ McCain supporter, there is nobody that
> Obama would pick that would satisfy you. You have already posted that you
> could not see any reason to vote for Obama. Obviously at least half your
> countrymen disagree with you.
There you go again... ;')
You assume I'm an ardent Bush and McCain supporter.
You assume because I question Obama I see no reason to vote for him.
Never assume.
>
> And, as I mentioned in a previous post, I can see his rationale for picking
> Biden, including his experience and regard in international affairs. You
> USAians are pretty low in this regard right now, thanks to GWB, for cred and
> respect.
I can understand his rational and still disagree with the choice.
Will this quote help with regard to international affairs ?
"Look, freedom is an overwhelming American notion. The idea that we want
to see the world, the peoples of the world free is something that all of
us subscribe to."
"Senator Joseph Biden, their leading foreign policy ?expert.? His logic
was on display on Sunday?s Meet the Press, where the long-time Delaware
Senator, who now chairs the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, was
asked by host Tim Russert about changing his position on setting a
deadline for pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq. Two years ago he said that
setting a deadline for withdrawal would ?encourage our enemies to wait
us out.? Now he says the war must ?end now.? Biden replied, ?Well, I
have changed my mind, but I haven?t changed my mind in any fundamental
way.?
http://www.aim.org/special-report/senate-embarrassments-joe-biden-and-
larry-craig/
"You were asked if he [Obama] was ready. You said, ?I think he can be
ready but right now I don?t believe he is. The presidency is not
something that lends itself to on-the-job training.?
http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/23/biden-praises-mccain-
and-slams-obama-new-mccain-ad-released/
"Canada and the U.S., it's like ham and eggs. It's kind of hard to
separate them."
? Joseph Biden
"You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight
Indian accent.... I'm not joking." --Joe Biden
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/joebiden/a/biden-quotes.htm
And this one is priceless..
?I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American
who is articulate and bright and clean and a
nice-looking guy? I mean, that?s a storybook, man.?
? Joe Biden evaluating Barack Obama in
the New York Observer, February 2007
Is Biden a guy you really want as VP ?
Fred J. McCall
:
:Having said that, I have seen / read lots of positives regarding Obama's
:selection, save from Michael Moore (yes, I'm on his mailing list) ...
:
Jesus, it just figures. Loons of a feather, and all that.
:
:... who would
:agree with you re. "so much for change and hope". He would have liked
:Caroline Kennedy to throw her name forward.
:
You sure she's far enough left for Moore?
:
:I think that Biden was a "safe" choice.
:
And that's precisely what's wrong with him. Obama's big edge is that
it's a campaign about change, youth, and excitement. Biden is a
horrible choice for that kind of campaign. Yes, JFK chose another old
warhorse (LBJ), but LBJ could deliver Texas. What's Biden bring
Obama?
He'd have been much better off with someone like Jim Webb. If John
Edwards hadn't screwed up and gotten caught, he'd have been a good
choice, as well.
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> Anyway, speaking as an erstwhile political hack, I can kind of understand
> Obama's choice, although it would hurt the feelings of *some* Americans.
> Joe Biden is quite respected internationally, and I do believe that Obama
> would like to repair international relations which are at close to an
> all-time low right now for the U.S.
Obama in Biden has picked his opposite.
Obama appeals to blacks, the young and possibly women.
Biden is white, old and male.
Andrew Swallow
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> And that's precisely what's wrong with him. Obama's big edge is that
> it's a campaign about change, youth, and excitement. Biden is a
> horrible choice for that kind of campaign. Yes, JFK chose another old
> warhorse (LBJ), but LBJ could deliver Texas. What's Biden bring
> Obama?
Biden brings old folks.
The big split in the USA used to be white Vs. black. As Clinton
discovered it is now young Vs. old - the 60s generation ignored the
pop songs and got old before it died.
Andrew Swallow
Jack Linthicum
> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.231a888d3...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
> > In article <2C3sk.9481$%b7.316@edtnps82>, nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com
> > says...
>
> >> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> >> > In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLVnZ2dnUVZ_umdn...@rcn.net>, raymond-
> >> > oh...@hotmail.com says...
> >> >> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP
> >> >> pick.
>
> >> > So much for change and hope.
>
> >> Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
>
> > I can't see picking an old school Washington insider as VP a harbinger
> > of change or hope.
>
> > Maybe you can.
>
> > Now if he had picked a governor his message might still ring true.
>
> C'mon, Tanky, as an ardent Bus^^ McCain supporter, there is nobody that
> Obama would pick that would satisfy you. You have already posted that you
> could not see any reason to vote for Obama. Obviously at least half your
> countrymen disagree with you.
>
> And, as I mentioned in a previous post, I can see his rationale for picking
> Biden, including his experience and regard in international affairs. You
> USAians are pretty low in this regard right now, thanks to GWB, for cred and
> respect.
>
> - nilita
The aspect of Joe Biden that all here seem to have missed is he can
pump in support for three states. Delaware, he was born in Scranton
(Same town as Hillary claimed) and can excite people in New Jersey.
Add to that that he is Catholic, has blue collar background and does
that trip back to Wilmington every night. Not your usual Senator. The
trick will be getting him to shut up.
deem...@aol.com
> <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
My cynical "moi" was behind my only half sarcastic comment.
There will be no fundamental change in Washington because of how our
elections...and especially electoral finances... are structured. For
anyone to get elected, they have to spend megabucks. In order to get
those megabucks, they have to jump through the party hoops...it
doesn't matter if we're talking Dem or Rep because neither party is
interested in change.
Now, will Obama bring some change to the White House? Yes,
but I just don't see him fundamentally changing anything. The special
interests and powers-that-be are way too entrenched for anything
except an extremely dire crisis to effect. For all the headlines about
energy prices and the housing market, those aren't "it". Until
Americans, in very large numbers, get totally fed up there will be no
more than cosmetic changes. The truth is our government and society
have, overall, served us very well.
The US is a very conservative and reactionary society. Regular
elections give the illusion of change...or at least the potential for
change...and this tends to be the release valve for tensions. We like
our changes in very small doses done through legal means. It takes
events like the Civil War or the Great Depression to do more than this
and then it's the government that leads the changes.....and we still
argue about whether those changes were right.
Our election cycles highlight one major weakness in the US.
It's very hard to implement any longterm planning when power is
swapped every 4-8 years. This means that we are constantly playing
catchup in areas such as energy. Fortunately for the US, technology
has been able to step in and help.....and we assume it will continue
to do so....helped by the best university and research system in the
world combined with a society which rewards innovation.
For all of the doomsayers, the US has tremendous rebound
capacity....probably greater than any other nation. Will this last?
Who knows. Will energy be the ultimate Achille's Heel? Maybe. We'll
see....and we all have 24/7 media and the internet so we can watch!
La N
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:496ed9bd-51eb-4694...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
*************************************************
I agree with this post!
- nil
La N
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ee0c8fbe-9949-4068...@k7g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
Yes, a good attribute to being a VP is to keep silent and in the wings - a
la Cheney?
Just kidding. I do understand that Biden has foot in mouth disease at
times.
- nil
deem...@aol.com
> I agree with this post!
>
I considered crossposting it to SCS for Adam's perusal, but
decided it wasn't worth the effort.
La N
<deem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:bcb2144c-4dc1-42ee...@s50g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
And furthermore, he would start calling me a nazi Bush lover ... :)
Actually, Adam makes me LOL. He's like a cartoon character. Very effective
troll.
Jack Linthicum
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
I am more interested in whether Biden is able to stay away from
Wilmington and would actually live in the Naval Observatory.
deem...@aol.com
> "La N" <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ih5sk.9504$%b7.7050@edtnps82...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > <deemsb...@aol.com> wrote in message
In some ways, it looks like he's picking Biden for his admin as
much as the campaign. One thing the US Veep can do effectively is be
an administration ambassador. Even though he's next to powerless in
the US govt, he's still the official #2 guy for ceremonies, etc.
Jack Linthicum
Dick Cheney all but rewrote the Constitution, I suspect if Biden and
Obama wanted to continue his good works it would happen. How many
people can create their own branch of government just by reading
around a few lines?
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP pick.
And now the world will bring together those two dynamic forces, Joe
Biden's Mother Jean (90 years old) and McCain's Mother Roberta (95).
Jeffrey Hamilton
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> In article <2C3sk.9481$%b7.316@edtnps82>, nilita20...@yahoo.com
> says...
>>
>> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
>> > In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLV...@rcn.net>, raymond-
>> > oh...@hotmail.com says...
>> >> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP
>> >> pick.
>> >
>> > So much for change and hope.
>> >
>>
>> Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
>>
>
> I can't see picking an old school Washington insider as VP a harbinger
> of change or hope.
>
> Maybe you can.
>
> Now if he had picked a governor his message might still ring true.
>
Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill sound's like
a good idea, to me. Bureaucrat's can stall or hinder implementation of an
administration's policies. Have all the senior bureaucrat's tender their
'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of *those*
not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
cheers....Jeff
Fred J. McCall
:
:Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill sound's like
:administration's policies. Have all the senior bureaucrat's tender their
:'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of *those*
:not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
But OBAMA is a Senator. If HE doesn't "know his way around Capitol
Hill" by now, is he really Presidential material?
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
Jack Linthicum
Of course one of the favorable aspects of Obama's career is that he
hasn't getting bogged down in the intricacies of procedure and
protocol to the detriment of getting something done. I have heard that
a President of the United States needed to find his own way on Capitol
Hill, we have seen that for the past seven years.
tankfixer
>
> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> news:MPG.231a888d3...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> > In article <2C3sk.9481$%b7.316@edtnps82>, nilita20...@yahoo.com
> > says...
> >>
> >> "tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> >> > In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLV...@rcn.net>, raymond-
> >> > oh...@hotmail.com says...
> >> >> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP
> >> >> pick.
> >> >
> >> > So much for change and hope.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
> >>
> >
> > I can't see picking an old school Washington insider as VP a harbinger
> > of change or hope.
> >
> > Maybe you can.
> >
> > Now if he had picked a governor his message might still ring true.
> >
>
> Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill sound's like
> a good idea, to me. Bureaucrat's can stall or hinder implementation of an
> administration's policies. Have all the senior bureaucrat's tender their
> 'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of *those*
> not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
>
So you would encourage croniesm to an even greater extant than it
already exists..?
Jack Linthicum
> In article <N2gsk.6103$in.4...@read1.cgocable.net>, bberesf...@cogeco.ca
> says...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> >news:MPG.231a888d3...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> > > In article <2C3sk.9481$%b7.316@edtnps82>, nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com
> > > says...
>
> > >> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
> > >>news:MPG.231a5a16...@nntp.earthlink.net...
> > >> > In article <_tmdnUKm3avZOTLVnZ2dnUVZ_umdn...@rcn.net>, raymond-
> > >> > oh...@hotmail.com says...
> > >> >> ABC news is "confirming" that Joe Biden will be the Democratic VP
> > >> >> pick.
>
> > >> > So much for change and hope.
>
> > >> Really? Now you're a soothsayer?
>
> > > I can't see picking an old school Washington insider as VP a harbinger
> > > of change or hope.
>
> > > Maybe you can.
>
> > > Now if he had picked a governor his message might still ring true.
>
> > Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill sound's like
> > a good idea, to me. Bureaucrat's can stall or hinder implementation of an
> > administration's policies. Have all the senior bureaucrat's tender their
> > 'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of *those*
> > not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
>
> So you would encourage croniesm to an even greater extant than it
> already exists..?
>
> --
> Meddle ye not in the Affairs of Dragons, for Thou art Crunchy and taste
> Goode with Ketchup.
That's cute. Both candidates emphasize their ability to work across
the aisle, and you call it cronyism. You are what is commonly called a
dud round.
Alan Lothian
<nilita20...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Joe Biden is quite respected internationally,
As in, absolutely no one has ever heard of him.
And what we have heard, recently, that he stole a speech from
*Neil Kinnock* says all that we international respecters need to know,
--
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water" -- Ibn Khaldun
If you wish to email me, try putting a dot between alan and lothian.
Blueyonder is a thing of the past.
Jack Linthicum
> In article <Qz5sk.9505$%b7.3441@edtnps82>, La N
>
>
> > Joe Biden is quite respected internationally,
>
> As in, absolutely no one has ever heard of him.
>
> And what we have heard, recently, that he stole a speech from
> *Neil Kinnock* says all that we international respecters need to know,
>
> --
> "The past resembles the future as water resembles water" -- Ibn Khaldun
>
> If you wish to email me, try putting a dot between alan and lothian.
> Blueyonder is a thing of the past.
This was the result of what is termed "stressless scholarship" in
Senatorial cicles
William Black
But Kinnock!
A man who was an embarrassment even to his own supporters.
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
It isn't the person you "acquire" your muse from, it's the ease of
accessibility in a close situation. In this instance Biden may have
warranteed Obama against assassination.
Joe Biden’s history of plagiarism and “stressless scholarship” gave
plenty of ammo to his enemies, one of them choosing to circulate a so-
called “attack video” to demonstrate Biden’s outright plagiarism of a
British politician’s speech. But this appropriation from Neal Kinnock
was not the first occurrence of unacknowledged lifting by the senator
from Delaware.
In 1965 Biden plagiarized while writing a paper as a student at the
Syracuse University Law School in a legal methods course which he
failed because of that copied paper. Such “stressless scholarship” as
it is euphemistically called has become all too common in the modern
Internet era with countless cheatsites and “research services”
offering to sell students papers on topics from A to Z.
Biden’s case demonstrates that student plagiarism is nothing new. Only
the methods of cheating have changed. Today, cheating has gone digital
with the proliferation of Internet based paper filing and
distributions systems, but the principles—or lack thereof—are the
same. And as the Biden case illustrates, getting caught for such
academic dishonesty may have serious ramifications for one’s political
career. Joe Biden’s failed bid for the Democratic ticket is a case in
point.
“Stressless scholarship” may seem like a pretty good idea at the time
that many students make that decision to ‘crib’, copy, or dowload a
paper off the Internet, but in Biden’s case the plagiarism of his
student days came back to haunt his bid for the democratic
presidential nomination like a spectre from his past.
In an article entitled “Biden’s Belly Flop”, Newsweek printed Joe
Biden’s yearbook picture from his college days and a copy of his law
school transcripts with the big “F” in his transcripts circled. Biden
was given a chance to repeat his legal methods course, and above the
“F” his retake grade of 80% was eventually penciled in. Being a repeat
offender when it came to plagiarism made things much, much worse for
Biden than they might have been otherwise in his failed bid for the
Democratic presidential ticket in 1987.
Senator Biden’s plagiarism of a speech by British Labor Party leader
Neal Kinnock took place at a campaign stump at the Iowa State
Fairgrounds. In closing his speech, Biden took Kinnock’s ideas and
language as if they were his very own inspired thoughts, prefacing
Kinnock’s ideas with the phrase “I started thinking as I was coming
over here . . . “. Little did Biden suspect that video footage of this
speech would be spliced together with footage of Kinnock’s speech in
an “attack video” which would be distributed by members of the Dukakis
campaign.
Making the headline news in the New York Times, and the evening news
on TV, the video was a stab in the back for Biden by his democratic
competitor, and although he insisted that “I’m in this race to stay.
I’m in this race to win,” the resulting publicity surrounding his
unacknowledged use of Neal Kinnock’s speech was what eventually forced
him out of the race. Name recognition was no longer a problem for
Biden, but not the kind of name recognition which would assist his
campaign for the democratic presidential nomination. His name was now
a byword for plagiarism. His situation became a classic example of
plagiarism for high school teachers and college instructors across the
nation lecturing on the evils of unacknowledged source use.
Biden initially denied any wrongdoing, claiming that this was just an
inadvertent lack of acknowledgement. Yet there were other instances of
rhetorical borrowing from speeches made by Robert F. Kennedy and
Hubert Humphrey. And the fact that Biden had given other speeches
using the Kinnock passages without acknowledgment suggested that the
lifting was more than just an inadvertent oversight.
As with Al Gore’s case, the perception existed in the public mind that
Biden just wasn’t the real thing. He wasn’t authentic, didn’t have
thoughts and ideas of his own, and was a malleable piece of clay being
molded by his handlers to suit the political whims and fancies which
they thought would appeal to voters. A Time magazine article by Walter
Shapairo was pretty much on the money in offering the speculation that
“In the end, Biden may be remembered as the candidate who truly
offered the voters an echo and not a choice.”
William Safire, former speechwriter for Richard Nixon, gloated in the
New York Times over Biden’s demise, quoting a supposedly “embittered
Democrat” who said, “I’m going back to Gary Hart . . . At least he
didn’t steal that girl from some far-lefty in England.” And he
concluded his op-ed column with a swipe at Biden’s ability to think
apart from his speechwriter: “So my advice to candidates like Joe
Biden is this: Do justly, love perorations and walk humbly with thy
speechwriter. (I forget where I got that, but it has a nice ring to
it.) ”
With all the press he was receiving over his Neal Kinnock plagiarism
courtesy of the Dukakis “attack videos”, Biden was quickly becoming
the “most famous political plagiarist of our time”, as Thomas Mallon
describes the unfortunate Delaware senator. It was just a matter of
time before Biden would have to bow out of the democratic primary.
Biden himself thought that all the attention to his rhetorical
borrowing was “frankly ludicrous”, and the media analysts generally
agreed, stating that is was “hardly a capital offense”, but as William
Safire put it, “times have changed; you can’t get away with borrowing
anything these days – not even an oratorical technique, much less a
phrase or paragraph – unless you are willing to give the attribution.”
If Gore’s loss of the presidency to George W. Bush in 2000 was more
indirectly related to plagiarism, it is evident that Biden’s case is
without question a direct result of his unacknowledged use of
Kinnock’s speech as if it were his very own. This instance of
plagiarism and the public exposure it received cut short the
presidential aspirations of an otherwise gifted orator and statesman.
References
End Profile PLTC-1965-JRB
John
If it hasn't been said (I don't have time to read 40+ posts) the
Democrats now have a stuffed shirt to go with their empty suit.
John Dupre'
Andrew Swallow
> "Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:31be0733-5f2f-450c...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 24, 4:06 pm, Alan Lothian <alanloth...@mac.com> wrote:
>>> In article <Qz5sk.9505$%b7.3441@edtnps82>, La N
>>>
>>> <nilita2004NOS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joe Biden is quite respected internationally,
>>> As in, absolutely no one has ever heard of him.
>>>
>>> And what we have heard, recently, that he stole a speech from
>>> *Neil Kinnock* says all that we international respecters need to know,
>>>
>>> --
>>> "The past resembles the future as water resembles water" -- Ibn Khaldun
>>>
>>> If you wish to email me, try putting a dot between alan and lothian.
>>> Blueyonder is a thing of the past.
>> This was the result of what is termed "stressless scholarship" in
>> Senatorial cicles
>
> But Kinnock!
>
> A man who was an embarrassment even to his own supporters.
>
just before the election. So he was a good person to quote (but not
after it).
Andrew Swallow
tankfixer
@k30g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, jackli...@earthlink.net says...
> the aisle, and you call it cronyism. You are what is commonly called a
> dud round.
Sorry Jack, have someone reread what the OP wrote.
he wishes to dismiss any senior (whatever that means) civil servant
(bureaucrat) who isn't of the "proper" party or ideology.
Isn't there a witch hunt underway about that kind of thing right now ???
Raymond O'Hara
>>
>> In some ways, it looks like he's picking Biden for his admin as
>> much as the campaign. One thing the US Veep can do effectively is be
>> an administration ambassador. Even though he's next to powerless in
>> the US govt, he's still the official #2 guy for ceremonies, etc.
>
> Dick Cheney all but rewrote the Constitution, I suspect if Biden and
> Obama wanted to continue his good works it would happen. How many
> people can create their own branch of government just by reading
> around a few lines?
if Obama wins and the dems hold both houses all the new powers bush/cheney
aquired will become intrenched.
Obama won't want to give up any and a friendly congress won't try to curb
him.
maybe the best result would be mccain winning and the dems getting the
supermajority in both houses.
hen maybe the balance of powers will be restored.
Raymond O'Hara
References
End Profile PLTC-1965-JRB
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
biden had credited kinnock several times before. he didn't once and dukakis
made a big deal of it.
Dennis
> Dennis ha scritto:
>> Barack isn't Biden his time anymore.
>
> I think is best not relate about Italian and french puns around this
> family name....
Zut alors! Par exemple... Joe Robinet Bidet!
In Italiano?
Dennis
Raymond O'Hara
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
all senior non-civil service guys are presidential appointees.
they serve as they say "at the pleasure of the president"
a president needs his guys in to carry out his orders.
you don't want some guy who has a different agenda screwing things up
everybody who takes those jobs like U.S. attourney knows they are temporary
4 year appointments.
plenty do get reappointed but there is nothing gauranteed them.
tankfixer
oh...@hotmail.com says...
This other fellow sounds like he wants to can more than just the non-
civil service guys.
Andrew Chaplin
news:Xns9B04E814845CAts...@130.133.1.4...
Plutôt "Joe Robinet Bidaine."
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
Tiger
> On Aug 24, 4:06 pm, Alan Lothian <alanloth...@mac.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <Qz5sk.9505$%b7.3441@edtnps82>, La N
> This was the result of what is termed "stressless scholarship" in
> Senatorial cicles
Still in a pre internet universe of 1988, Biden had to do some digging.
Today Schoolkids think everything is a Wiki click and a cut & paste
away. I think in 2008, that knock on Biden is less of a hit than it was
at the time. In a world of online term papers, Plagerisim is not a dirty
word today. More of a fact of life.
Tiger
> "Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:014ae479-340f-4805...@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 24, 6:52 pm, "William Black" <william.bl...@hotmail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
Excuse my ignorace of UK politics, but what ever happend to Kinnock? He
still arround?
Jack Linthicum
On another thread the idea of having something to tag your opponent
with, no matter how trivial, is important beyond the content of the
tag. I remember a a "game" called "Gamesmanship" that started in GB
and came to colleges in the early 50s. The idea is to keep your
opponent always off guard and unable to attain a moral superiority.
One would almost believe that Obama is therefore where he is only
because he is black and McCain is where he is because he was in a
prison camp.
Gamesmanship is the use of dubious (although not technically illegal)
methods to win a game, such as golf or snooker. As opposed to
sportsmanship, it may be inferred that the term derives from playing
for the game (to win at any cost) as opposed to playing for sport. The
term originates from Stephen Potter's 1947 book, Gamesmanship: The Art
of Winning Games Without Actually Cheating.
Contents
* 1 Origins
* 2 Techniques
o 2.1 Breaking the flow
o 2.2 Causing your opponent to overthink
o 2.3 Intentional "mistakes"
* 3 Football/Soccer
* 4 Usage outside of games
* 5 See also
* 6 References
* 7 Books extending Potter's theories of gamesmanship
* 8 References
Origins
Stephen Potter cites the origin of gamesmanship to be a tennis match
in which he and the philosopher C. E. M. Joad competed against two
younger and fitter men who were outplaying them fairly comfortably. On
returning a serve, Joad hit the ball straight into the back-netting
twelve feet behind the back-line. While the opponents were preparing
for the next serve Joad queried whether the ball had landed in, or
out. Being young, polite university students, their opponents offered
to replay the point, but Joad declined. Because they were young and
polite, the slight suggestion by Joad that their etiquette and
sportsmanship was in question was extremely off-putting. Potter and
Joad went on to win the match.
Techniques
The most common techniques of gamesmanship are the following.
1. Breaking the flow of an opponent's play.
2. Causing an opponent to take the game less seriously or to
overthink his or her position.
3. Intentionally making a "mistake" which gains an advantage over
an opponent.
While the first method is more common at higher levels of sports, the
last two are more powerful in amateur games.
Breaking the flow
Examples of "flow-breaking" methods include:
* In Darts, the player intentionally takes a long time to take his/
her darts out of the dartboard. (Peter Manley has been widley accused
of this)
* Feigning injury to delay the game, or to imply you won't be
playing at your best. The skilled gamesman can counter this tactic by
waiting until the game has been in play for some time, before
revealing that he or she suffers from a far more serious condition,
such as a heart defect.
* In billiards or snooker, intentionally standing in your
opponent's line of sight, and then suddenly moving when you "realise"
you're in the wrong place.
* Distracting your opponent by complaining about other people who
might be (but weren't) distracting your opponent. Potter, who always
insisted that the good gamesman must give the appearance of being a
good sportsman, recommended this approach. For example, if an opponent
is about to take a shot at billiards, it is bad gamesmanship to fidget
and whistle but good gamesmanship to distract him by loudly requesting
silence from spectators.
* When winning a point you should look directly at the opponent,
but when losing one always avoid eye contact.
* In cricket, coming out to bat with two right-handed gloves and
then wasting time sorting it out.
* When losing an outdoor game, feigning a deep, informed and more
than amateur interest in e.g. botany or ornithology, in order to
convey the breadth of your interests and suggest to opponent that you
are not really concerned about losing. This can cause them to relax
their attention, or at any rate rob them of the satisfaction of
beating you.
* In amateur hockey, types of "flow-breaking" include
intentionally icing the puck, lining up at the wrong face-off dot, or
shooting the puck over the glass (in professional hockey, the team
that ices the puck is not allowed a line change, while shooting the
puck over the glass leads to a two-minute penalty).
Causing your opponent to overthink
Examples of methods designed to cause your opponent to overthink or to
not take the game seriously enough include:
* Giving intentionally vague advice in the hope of making your
opponent focus on his play.
* Asking one's opponent advice for a (fictitious) match the
following day, against an implied stronger opponent.
* Claiming that the game you are playing "just isn't my sport", or
claiming less expertise than you actually possess (a mild form of
hustling).
* The converse approach, suggesting a level of expertise far
higher than you actually possess, can also be effective. For example,
although gamesmanship frowns on simple distractions like whistling
loudly while an opponent takes a shot, it is good gamesmanship to do
so when taking a shot oneself, suggesting as it does a level of
carefree detachment which your opponent does not possess.
Intentional "mistakes"
Examples of intentional "mistakes" designed to gain an advantage:
* In bridge, intentionally misdealing and then engaging in chaotic
bidding, knowing that the hand will be void anyway.
* In poker, intentionally raising out of turn, to induce players
to give you a free card.
All of the above are considered very close to cheating, and the abuser
of gamesmanship techniques will find himself penalized in most serious
sports and games tournaments, as well as being deemed (if caught) a
"bad sport".
Usage outside of games
The term "gamesmanship" is also used for similar techniques used in
non-game situations, such as negotiations and elections.
Each form is frequently used as a means of describing dubious methods
of winning and/or psychological tricks used to intimidate or confuse
one's opponent. Technically speaking, these tactics are One-upmanship,
defined in a later book by Potter as the art of being one-up on
somebody else.
John Dallman
(Tiger) wrote:
> Excuse my ignorace of UK politics, but what ever happend to Kinnock?
> He still around?
Kind of. Having lost the 1987 general election, he quit as leader of the
Labour Party. Being an ex-party leader in the UK doesn't quite seem to
have an equivalent in US politics, but all the recent ones have tried to
stay out of their successors' way, having seen the awful spectacle that
Ted Heath (Conservative leader 1965-74) presented. He stayed on in the
House of Commons until 2001, presenting The Greatest Sulk In the History
of British Politics.
Kinnock did not sulk much, and did some media work until 1995. He was
then appointed an EU commissioner, and was not disastrous in the role -
EU commissioners are kind of the cabinet of the EU, and while they have
quite a bit of power, depending on their portfolios, they aren't very
noticeable unless they screw something up big-time. Since returning from
eight years of that, he's been in semi-retirement from politics, though
he is a member of the House of Lords, Chainman of the British Council,
which is a kind of cultural-ambassador organisation, and Chancellor of
Cardiff University.. His wife is a Member of the European Parliament.
Basically, he hasn't been an important figure in public life since 1992,
and seems unlikely to become such again. More details on Wikipedia.
--
John Dallman, j...@cix.co.uk, HTML mail is treated as probable spam.
John Dallman
<4f438208-ed40-484c...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
jackli...@earthlink.net (Jack Linthicum) wrote:
> Each form is frequently used as a means of describing dubious methods
> of winning and/or psychological tricks used to intimidate or confuse
> one's opponent. Technically speaking, these tactics are One-upmanship,
> defined in a later book by Potter as the art of being one-up on
> somebody else.
By chance, a grandson of Stephen Potter is a friend of mine. His hobby
is game-playing: mostly boardgames. He just wins. We're onto most of his
gamesmanship nowadays, but he still does it. We put it down to family
pride providing exceptional motivation. The only times he doesn't win
are when the game is deeply silly, or uses very peculiar and misleading
rules. Then he'll lose - the first time.
Jack Linthicum
> In article
> <4f438208-ed40-484c-96b5-219c1b188...@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
Too bad he isn't American, we could settle the most powerful position
of the Western world without all the wasted money.
William Black
"Tiger" <Lana_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:48B2F4EB...@hotmail.com...
He lost the general election and promptly resigned as party leader, being
replaced byJohn Smith, who tragically died less than two years later (oh
what might have been...).
He went on to become an EC Commissioner, which is a sort of appointed
political representative at the EC, but with cabinet level responsibilities
within the EC administration.
He did that for a bit without managing to upset anyone too badly, which is
a considerable achievement, went to the Lords (now styled 'Baron Kinnock of
Bedwellty') despite his long campaign against them (a gross hypocrisy that
often afflicted aging Labour politicians in the past, but not so much now)
and has become one of what are known here as 'The Great and the Good',
people who spend their time doing good works on various committees for huge
wadges of expense money and endless free dinners, all, of course, at public
expense.
Dennis
>>>> Barack isn't Biden his time anymore.
>>>
>>> I think is best not relate about Italian and french puns around this
>>> family name....
>>
>> Zut alors! Par exemple... Joe Robinet Bidet!
>>
> Plutôt "Joe Robinet Bidaine."
Si on élit Obama et Biden, les E-U termineront par devenir un
Bidenville.
Dennis
Tiger
> On Aug 25, 2:04 pm, Tiger <Lana_sa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Jack Linthicum wrote:
>>
>>>On Aug 24, 4:06 pm, Alan Lothian <alanloth...@mac.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>In article <Qz5sk.9505$%b7.3441@edtnps82>, La N
>>>
>>>This was the result of what is termed "stressless scholarship" in
>>>Senatorial cicles
>>
>>Still in a pre internet universe of 1988, Biden had to do some digging.
>>Today Schoolkids think everything is a Wiki click and a cut & paste
>>away. I think in 2008, that knock on Biden is less of a hit than it was
>>at the time. In a world of online term papers, Plagerisim is not a dirty
>>word today. More of a fact of life.
>
>
> On another thread the idea of having something to tag your opponent
> with, no matter how trivial, is important beyond the content of the
> tag. I remember a a "game" called "Gamesmanship" that started in GB
> and came to colleges in the early 50s. The idea is to keep your
> opponent always off guard and unable to attain a moral superiority.
> One would almost believe that Obama is therefore where he is only
> because he is black and McCain is where he is because he was in a
> prison camp.
Hmmmmm.......... Not exactly, but close to the truth in both cases.
Dennis
>>>> Barack isn't Biden his time anymore.
>>>
>>> I think is best not relate about Italian and french puns around this
>>> family name....
>>
>> Zut alors! Par exemple... Joe Robinet Bidet!
>
> Plutôt "Joe Robinet Bidaine."
If Obama chose Joe Robinet Bidet for a running mate, he's not just
covering his ass, he's cleaning it!
Obama is chicken... Baraaaack, Bawk Bawk Bawk Bawk Bawk Barack!
Dennis
Jeffrey Hamilton
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
Nope. I'm saying _don't_ allow cronyism, to hinder or delay, the *new
managements policies*.
cheers....Jeff
Jeffrey Hamilton
"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:9163b4tue491hm5jm...@4ax.com...
> "Jeffrey Hamilton" <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
> :
> :Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill sound's
> :a good idea, to me. Bureaucrat's can stall or hinder implementation of an
> :administration's policies. Have all the senior bureaucrat's tender their
> :'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of
> *those*
> :not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
>
> But OBAMA is a Senator. If HE doesn't "know his way around Capitol
> Hill" by now, is he really Presidential material?
>
If enough people vote for him, then yes he is.
I should think one of Biden's assets, is *his* knowledge of the various
political leanings of the *Mandarin's on Capitol Hill*. Whilst
_they_should_be_apolitical_, everyone knows that isn't always the case. I
can see no sensible reason to leave the previous administration's
*mandarin's*, in positions where they can possibly hinder the *new
administration's* policies.
cheers....Jeff
Jeffrey Hamilton
"tankfixer" <paul.c...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
Possibly it's _you_ who need's to reread what I posted.
cheers....Jeff
frank
wrote:
> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.comm> wrote in message
>
>
>
>
> > In article <91c5a741-4d5b-4efa-a92d-544cb3bd4a72
There are about 32,000 presidential appointees, last time I saw the
stats, who knows how many Bush and Cheney came up with. Sometimes they
move them into permanent Civil Service before the end of the
administration, frowned upon, but still done. Some of these people are
just political hacks that want to piddle with dragons then go home and
make big bucks.
State of Missouri had everybody Bureau Chief and above submit a
resignation to new governor, not all were accepted, except for most
heads of Depts, most stayed the same. How much shakeup there is
depends on new governor, if there were problems in agency, just
politics. Sometimes people will quit rather than work for new
administration. For some reason they may hate the new Dept head. They
usually have enough time to retire when they do this. Retirement
elgibility in Missouri was age and state service had to total 85
years. If you were vested once you were 65 you got the retirement
irregardless.
About 10 years ago, was a big housecleaning. Had unfortunate
consequences, most senior faculty left the U of Missouri. Retirement
made more sense than staying on. Had to scramble to fill jobs and
teach courses for a while. Sometimes retiring people to cut costs is
short sighted, some agencies lost a lot of people who had corporate
knowledge, had lots of people with less than 10 years, few with 15 or
20 or more.
Jack Linthicum
That explains a lot of things. I knew the bit with the civil servants
but not about the University. My degree is Missouri and I always have
thought of the school as being somewhat above average. Looks like that
was a problem.
deem...@aol.com
>
> About 10 years ago, was a big housecleaning. Had unfortunate
> consequences, most senior faculty left the U of Missouri. Retirement
> made more sense than staying on. Had to scramble to fill jobs and
> teach courses for a while. Sometimes retiring people to cut costs is
> short sighted, some agencies lost a lot of people who had corporate
> knowledge, had lots of people with less than 10 years, few with 15 or
> 20 or more
RIFs (Reduction in Force for the acronymically challenged) can
cause problems. At the Y-12 Nuclear Weapons Plant, they RIFed so many
senior people that no one knew how to do some of the jobs that were
only done every 5-10 years. They caught a uranium processing unit on
fire because the manual left out a step.....I believe the unit had to
be totally dry before proceeding with the next step...and none of the
remaining guys knew that. (DOE where safety comes first)
Fred J. McCall
:
:"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:news:9163b4tue491hm5jm...@4ax.com...
:> "Jeffrey Hamilton" <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
:> :
:> :Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill sound's
:> like
:> :a good idea, to me. Bureaucrat's can stall or hinder implementation of an
:> :administration's policies. Have all the senior bureaucrat's tender their
:> :'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of
:> *those*
:> :not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
:> :
:>
:> But OBAMA is a Senator. If HE doesn't "know his way around Capitol
:> Hill" by now, is he really Presidential material?
:>
:
:If enough people vote for him, then yes he is.
:
No, that makes him President. Not the same thing at all.
:
:I should think one of Biden's assets, is *his* knowledge of the various
:political leanings of the *Mandarin's on Capitol Hill*. Whilst
:_they_should_be_apolitical_, everyone knows that isn't always the case. I
:can see no sensible reason to leave the previous administration's
:*mandarin's*, in positions where they can possibly hinder the *new
:administration's* policies.
:
If Obama has been up there as a Senator for as long as he has and
doesn't know this himself, wouldn't that make him a bit of a thickie?
I don't think he is, but your rationale for what Biden brings to the
team seems to presuppose that he must be.
Wouldn't Biden's knowledge have been equally available to a Democratic
President if he remained in the Senate? In fact, perhaps even more
so, since he would still be actively engaged?
--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn
Raymond O'Hara
if he picked someone else you'd be spouting that they have no experience on
the ticket.
don't you get weary of being told your opinions by rush limbaugh?
Jeffrey Hamilton
> "Jeffrey Hamilton" <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>
>>
> :"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:9163b4tue491hm5jm...@4ax.com...
>>> "Jeffrey Hamilton" <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill
>>>> sound's like a good idea, to me. Bureaucrat's can stall or hinder
>>>> implementation of an administration's policies. Have all the
>>>> senior bureaucrat's tender their
>>> :'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of
>>> *those*
>>>> not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
>>>>
>>>
>>> But OBAMA is a Senator. If HE doesn't "know his way around Capitol
>>> Hill" by now, is he really Presidential material?
>>>
>>
>> If enough people vote for him, then yes he is.
>>
>
> No, that makes him President. Not the same thing at all.
>
It worked for Dubya, what, other than political affiliation is different
this time ?
>>
>> I should think one of Biden's assets, is *his* knowledge of the
>> various political leanings of the *Mandarin's on Capitol Hill*.
>> Whilst
> :_they_should_be_apolitical_, everyone knows that isn't always the
> case. I
>> can see no sensible reason to leave the previous administration's
> :*mandarin's*, in positions where they can possibly hinder the *new
>> administration's* policies.
>>
>
> If Obama has been up there as a Senator for as long as he has and
> doesn't know this himself, wouldn't that make him a bit of a thickie?
>
Nope. Beside's, I never said he _doesn't_know who-is-who and what's-what.
That, was _your_assumption.
> I don't think he is, but your rationale for what Biden brings to the
> team seems to presuppose that he must be.
Having a VP who know's his way around, is an asset to a new administration.
IMHO
> Wouldn't Biden's knowledge have been equally available to a Democratic
> President if he remained in the Senate? In fact, perhaps even more
> so, since he would still be actively engaged?
Then why not even more so, as VP ?
To be candid, I don't know what factor's made Obama choose Biden as his
running mate.
Personally, I'd have chosen Hilary, if for no other reason that to watch the
Republican's, go ballistic.
That....... would have been funny.
cheers.....Jeff
John Dallman
<2337af25-97e4-42fb...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
> On Aug 25, 2:46 pm, j...@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) wrote:
> > The only times he doesn't win are when the game is deeply silly,
> > or uses very peculiar and misleading rules. Then he'll lose - the
> > first time.
> of the Western world without all the wasted money.
I suspect that the "very peculiar and misleading rules" clause might
apply.
Jack Linthicum
> In article
> <2337af25-97e4-42fb-a22b-5c49e8e52...@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
>
> jacklinthi...@earthlink.net (Jack Linthicum) wrote:
> > On Aug 25, 2:46 pm, j...@cix.co.uk (John Dallman) wrote:
> > > By chance, a grandson of Stephen Potter is a friend of mine. ...
> > > The only times he doesn't win are when the game is deeply silly,
> > > or uses very peculiar and misleading rules. Then he'll lose - the
> > > first time.
> > Too bad he isn't American, we could settle the most powerful position
> > of the Western world without all the wasted money.
>
> I suspect that the "very peculiar and misleading rules" clause might
> apply.
>
> --
> John Dallman, j...@cix.co.uk, HTML mail is treated as probable spam.
I seem to recall something similar in our own administrative rules:
personal loyalty, executive privilege, Fourth Branch of government,
habeus your own corpus and other frills.
Dennis
>> If Obama chose Joe Robinet Bidet for a running mate, he's not just
>> covering his ass, he's cleaning it!
>>
>> Obama is chicken... Baraaaack, Bawk Bawk Bawk Bawk Bawk Barack!
>
> if he picked someone else you'd be spouting that they have no
> experience on the ticket.
> don't you get weary of being told your opinions by rush limbaugh?
I think that Rush Limbaugh *is* a big fat idiot! Biden is fine! I
just enjoy being snide sometimes. ;-) And it's equal opportunity.
Dennis
Fred J. McCall
:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:> "Jeffrey Hamilton" <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
:>
:>>
:> :"Fred J. McCall" <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
:>> news:9163b4tue491hm5jm...@4ax.com...
:>>> "Jeffrey Hamilton" <bbere...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
:>>>>
:>>>> Actually, having someone who know's his way around Capitol Hill
:>>>> sound's like a good idea, to me. Bureaucrat's can stall or hinder
:>>>> implementation of an administration's policies. Have all the
:>>>> senior bureaucrat's tender their
:>>> :'undated but signed' resignation's.....and then fill in the date of
:>>> *those*
:>>>> not amenable, to the _NEW_ administration.
:>>>>
:>>>
:>>> But OBAMA is a Senator. If HE doesn't "know his way around Capitol
:>>> Hill" by now, is he really Presidential material?
:>>>
:>>
:>> If enough people vote for him, then yes he is.
:>>
:>
:> No, that makes him President. Not the same thing at all.
:>
:
:It worked for Dubya, what, other than political affiliation is different
:this time ?
:
No, it didn't "work for Dubya". Being Presidential material and being
elected President are two different and potentially unrelated things.
:>>
:>> I should think one of Biden's assets, is *his* knowledge of the
:>> various political leanings of the *Mandarin's on Capitol Hill*.
:>> Whilst
:> :_they_should_be_apolitical_, everyone knows that isn't always the
:> case. I
:>> can see no sensible reason to leave the previous administration's
:> :*mandarin's*, in positions where they can possibly hinder the *new
:>> administration's* policies.
:>>
:>
:> If Obama has been up there as a Senator for as long as he has and
:> doesn't know this himself, wouldn't that make him a bit of a thickie?
:>
:
:Nope. Beside's, I never said he _doesn't_know who-is-who and what's-what.
:That, was _your_assumption.
:
So if he does, then what is it that Biden brings to the team, again?
:> I don't think he is, but your rationale for what Biden brings to the
:> team seems to presuppose that he must be.
:
:Having a VP who know's his way around, is an asset to a new administration.
:IMHO
:
Really? Why?
:> Wouldn't Biden's knowledge have been equally available to a Democratic
:> President if he remained in the Senate? In fact, perhaps even more
:> so, since he would still be actively engaged?
:
:Then why not even more so, as VP ?
Because a VP has no real power and a Senator does.
:To be candid, I don't know what factor's made Obama choose Biden as his
:running mate.
Other than that Biden campaigned very hard for it, I don't either. I
can think of better choices that would have fit better with his image.
:
:Personally, I'd have chosen Hilary, if for no other reason that to watch the
:Republican's, go ballistic.
:That....... would have been funny.
:
If you find Obama losing funny, yes, choosing Hilary would have been
hilarious.
--
"It's always different. It's always complex. But at some point,
somebody has to draw the line. And that somebody is always me....
I am the law."
-- Buffy, The Vampire Slayer