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Dye in Naval Shells
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Dean Markley
Mar 15, 2012, 1:17:55 PM3/15/12
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I was just reading about the Japanese battleship Hiei on Wiki and it
seems she used shells loaded with black dye for spotting. Does anyone
know what colors her sisters used?
Did other navies do this as well?
Dean
seems she used shells loaded with black dye for spotting. Does anyone
know what colors her sisters used?
Did other navies do this as well?
Dean
a425couple
Mar 15, 2012, 1:35:46 PM3/15/12
to
"Dean Markley" <dama...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
Yes.
From wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armament_of_the_Iowa_class_battleship
"To distinguish between the rounds fired from different battleships the
Iowa class used dye bags which allowed artillery observers to determine
which rounds had been fired by which ship. Iowa, New Jersey,
Missouri, and Wisconsin were assigned the colors Orange, Blue,
Red and Green, respectively"
From wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armament_of_the_Iowa_class_battleship
"To distinguish between the rounds fired from different battleships the
Iowa class used dye bags which allowed artillery observers to determine
which rounds had been fired by which ship. Iowa, New Jersey,
Missouri, and Wisconsin were assigned the colors Orange, Blue,
Red and Green, respectively"
a425couple
Mar 15, 2012, 1:42:54 PM3/15/12
to
"Dean Markley" <dama...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
>I was just reading about the Japanese battleship Hiei on Wiki and it
> seems she used shells loaded with black dye for spotting. Does anyone
> know what colors her sisters used?
from:
> seems she used shells loaded with black dye for spotting. Does anyone
> know what colors her sisters used?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kong%C5%8D_class_battlecruiser
"In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN.
Kongo's shells used red dye, Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue,
while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show
for the future victors (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
Ray O'Hara
Mar 15, 2012, 2:10:01 PM3/15/12
to
news:f8a433ef-b3b4-4a7f...@l7g2000vbw.googlegroups.com...
it was the color of the dye that helped prove it was San Francisco that had
shot up Atalanta at 1st Guadalcanal.
shot up Atalanta at 1st Guadalcanal.
Dean Markley
Mar 15, 2012, 3:27:55 PM3/15/12
to
On Mar 15, 2:10 pm, "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Dean Markley" <damark...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Do tell more? What color dye was San Francisco using? If a dye shell
impacts a target, does the dye really persist and survive the
explosion/impact?
> "Dean Markley" <damark...@gmail.com> wrote in message
impacts a target, does the dye really persist and survive the
explosion/impact?
Ray O'Hara
Mar 15, 2012, 5:01:06 PM3/15/12
to
news:2a971a17-a6ac-4b13...@eb6g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
==============================================================
I believe it was green. and yes it survives the explosion. that is how it
manages to color the water.
The Atlanta sank the next day so they had time to examine the damage caused
in the battle.
I believe it was green. and yes it survives the explosion. that is how it
manages to color the water.
The Atlanta sank the next day so they had time to examine the damage caused
in the battle.
Jeff Crowell
Mar 15, 2012, 9:37:00 PM3/15/12
to a425couple
a425couple wrote:
> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
Based on a USS New Jersey fire demo I was fortunate enough to watch
> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
off the SoCal coast in '85 or '86, the dye markers were surprisingly
bright. Nine-gun salvo targeted about 10 miles off the beam--
the splashes looked like redwood trees. Amazing! And I for sure
had no desire to see one much closer.
Jeff
--
If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed toward you.
Murphy's Laws of Combat
Jeff Crowell
Mar 15, 2012, 9:40:43 PM3/15/12
to a425couple
a425couple wrote:
> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
Based on a USS New Jersey fire demo I was fortunate enough to watch
off the SoCal coast in '85 or '86, the dye markers were surprisingly
bright. Nine-gun salvo targeted about 10 miles off the beam--
the splashes looked like redwood trees. Amazing! And I for sure
had no desire to see one much closer. Blue, IIRC.
off the SoCal coast in '85 or '86, the dye markers were surprisingly
bright. Nine-gun salvo targeted about 10 miles off the beam--
the splashes looked like redwood trees. Amazing! And I for sure
Message has been deleted
dott.Piergiorgio
Mar 16, 2012, 3:01:08 AM3/16/12
to
Il 16/03/2012 02:37, Jeff Crowell ha scritto:
> a425couple wrote:
>> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
>> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
>> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
>> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
>
> Based on a USS New Jersey fire demo I was fortunate enough to watch
> off the SoCal coast in '85 or '86, the dye markers were surprisingly
> bright. Nine-gun salvo targeted about 10 miles off the beam--
> the splashes looked like redwood trees. Amazing! And I for sure
> had no desire to see one much closer.
so, you're one of the few people whose heard the Roar of a Battleship ?
> a425couple wrote:
>> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
>> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
>> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
>> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
>
> Based on a USS New Jersey fire demo I was fortunate enough to watch
> off the SoCal coast in '85 or '86, the dye markers were surprisingly
> bright. Nine-gun salvo targeted about 10 miles off the beam--
> the splashes looked like redwood trees. Amazing! And I for sure
> had no desire to see one much closer.
congrats.
Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
Jeff Crowell
Mar 16, 2012, 8:04:52 AM3/16/12
to a425couple
a425couple wrote:
> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
> "In 1941, dyes were introduced to the IJN. Kongo's shells used red dye,
> Hiei's black, and Kirishima's blue, while Haruna did not use shell-dyes"
> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future victors
> (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
Based on a USS New Jersey fire demo I was fortunate enough to watch
off the SoCal coast in '85 or '86, the dye markers were surprisingly
bright. Nine-gun salvo targeted about 10 miles off the beam--
the splashes looked like redwood trees. Amazing! And I for sure
off the SoCal coast in '85 or '86, the dye markers were surprisingly
bright. Nine-gun salvo targeted about 10 miles off the beam--
the splashes looked like redwood trees. Amazing! And I for sure
a425couple
Mar 16, 2012, 10:18:19 AM3/16/12
to
"Dean Markley" <dama...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
- "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> "Dean Markley" <damark...@gmail.com> wrote in message
-impacts a target, does the dye really persist and survive the
-explosion/impact?
This site is reasonably informative regards the green dye story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Atlanta_(CL-51)
(especially 5th paragraph of "Night Attack")
(many other cites, use almost exactly same words)
- "Ray O'Hara" <raymond-oh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
-> "Dean Markley" <damark...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >I was just reading about the Japanese battleship Hiei on Wiki and it
> > seems she used shells loaded with black dye for spotting. Does anyone
> > know what colors her sisters used?
> > Did other navies do this as well?
>
> > seems she used shells loaded with black dye for spotting. Does anyone
> > know what colors her sisters used?
> > Did other navies do this as well?
>
> it was the color of the dye that helped prove it was San Francisco that
> had
> shot up Atalanta at 1st Guadalcanal.
-Do tell more? What color dye was San Francisco using? If a dye shell
> had
> shot up Atalanta at 1st Guadalcanal.
-impacts a target, does the dye really persist and survive the
-explosion/impact?
This site is reasonably informative regards the green dye story:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Atlanta_(CL-51)
(especially 5th paragraph of "Night Attack")
(many other cites, use almost exactly same words)
Dean
Mar 16, 2012, 10:46:49 AM3/16/12
to
On Mar 16, 10:18 am, "a425couple" <a425cou...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Dean Markley" <damark...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
That's a nice reference. So, it says this: "Soon after being
torpedoed, Atlanta was then hit by an estimated nineteen 8-inch (200
mm) shells when San Francisco, "in the urgency of battle, darkness,
and confused intermingling of friend or foe", fired at her. Though
almost all of the shells passed through the thin skin of the ship
without detonating, scattering green dye, fragments from their impact
killed many men, including Admiral Scott and members of his staff."
I was assuming the dye is a powder? Located just under the nosecap of
the projectiles?
> "Dean Markley" <damark...@gmail.com> wrote in message...
torpedoed, Atlanta was then hit by an estimated nineteen 8-inch (200
mm) shells when San Francisco, "in the urgency of battle, darkness,
and confused intermingling of friend or foe", fired at her. Though
almost all of the shells passed through the thin skin of the ship
without detonating, scattering green dye, fragments from their impact
killed many men, including Admiral Scott and members of his staff."
I was assuming the dye is a powder? Located just under the nosecap of
the projectiles?
Joe Osman
Mar 19, 2012, 2:01:07 PM3/19/12
to
Joe
Jim H.
Mar 19, 2012, 8:01:08 PM3/19/12
to
landing way too far inland to see, let alone discern the presence or
color of dye. Very impressive to see them as outgoing, tho'.
Jim H.
dott.Piergiorgio
Mar 20, 2012, 4:38:48 AM3/20/12
to
Il 19/03/2012 19:01, Joe Osman ha scritto:
>> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future
>> victors (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
>
> I remember reading an account of how colorful a Japanese attack was
> early in the war. Colored flares and dyes were also used as
> directional aids for aerial and surface torpedo attack. It might have
> been in one of Morrison's series.
I don't remember what action was and where I read it, but I'm sure that
>> Could almost do a 4th of July water spout show for the future
>> victors (figuring no dye would be pretty white).
>
> I remember reading an account of how colorful a Japanese attack was
> early in the war. Colored flares and dyes were also used as
> directional aids for aerial and surface torpedo attack. It might have
> been in one of Morrison's series.
I read a quote along the lines of "My god, they're firing on us in
technicolor !"
Best regard from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.
Frederick J. Barnett
Mar 20, 2012, 11:57:31 AM3/20/12
to
On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:38:48 +0100, "dott.Piergiorgio"
<chied...@ask.me> wrote:
>I don't remember what action was and where I read it, but I'm sure that
>I read a quote along the lines of "My god, they're firing on us in
>technicolor !"
>
Battle of Leyte Gulf, when the Japanese fleet was firing on
<chied...@ask.me> wrote:
>I don't remember what action was and where I read it, but I'm sure that
>I read a quote along the lines of "My god, they're firing on us in
>technicolor !"
>
the escort carrier groups.
Frederick J. Barnett
"Someone's got to take the responsibility if the job's going to get done!! Do you think that's easy?!" Gregory Peck - The Guns Of Navarone
dott.Piergiorgio
Mar 21, 2012, 6:21:47 AM3/21/12
to
Il 20/03/2012 16:57, Frederick J. Barnett ha scritto:
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:38:48 +0100, "dott.Piergiorgio"
> <chied...@ask.me> wrote:
>
>> I don't remember what action was and where I read it, but I'm sure that
>> I read a quote along the lines of "My god, they're firing on us in
>> technicolor !"
>>
> Battle of Leyte Gulf, when the Japanese fleet was firing on
> the escort carrier groups.
Thanks.
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:38:48 +0100, "dott.Piergiorgio"
> <chied...@ask.me> wrote:
>
>> I don't remember what action was and where I read it, but I'm sure that
>> I read a quote along the lines of "My god, they're firing on us in
>> technicolor !"
>>
> Battle of Leyte Gulf, when the Japanese fleet was firing on
> the escort carrier groups.
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