Fast Boat Threat Faces Hail of Hellfires
dump...@hotmail.com
boats. the US Navy is looking to equip the
sensor turrets of its shipborne helicopters
with the ability to designate multiple targets
for simultaneous attack by laser-guided
missiles like Hellfire."
See:
dott.Piergiorgio
> "Faced with the threat from swarms of small
> boats. the US Navy is looking to equip the
> sensor turrets of its shipborne helicopters
> with the ability to designate multiple targets
> for simultaneous attack by laser-guided
> missiles like Hellfire."
Hmmm.....
Seems to me an excellent idea against all boats smaller than FAC (that
is, with self-defense system with <5000 mt range), providing is an AGM
mod M and later (~8000 mt. range, non-HEAT warhead)
the HE warheads, and more so the thermobaric warhead of the N and the
shrapnel of the R should be really effective against warship or
improvised attack craft (read: pirate boats) smaller than ~300-400 tons.
but the ~8km range of the hellfire and the inherent low stealthiness of
helos on the open sea preclude stand-off attacks against ships above
~400 tons, that is, capable of carrying guns from 57mm up and/or
missiles around the seasparrow size.
OTOH, this concept can also be an excellent anti-landing system, esp. in
defence of narrow and/or steep coastlines (here in Italy the idea will
be readily adopted ;) and more so on the other side of the Adriatic :( )
Best regards from Italy,
Dott. Piergiorgio.
David E. Powell
> "Faced with the threat from swarms of small
> boats. the US Navy is looking to equip the
> sensor turrets of its shipborne helicopters
> with the ability to designate multiple targets
> for simultaneous attack by laser-guided
> missiles like Hellfire."
>
> See:
>
An heir or counterpart to the QF guns meant to deal with torpedo
boats, as Harpoon is heir or counterpart to the bigger guns.....
dump...@hotmail.com
<dott.PiergiorgioNI...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
{SNIP}
> the ~8km range of the hellfire and the inherent low stealthiness of
> helos on the open sea preclude stand-off attacks against ships above
> ~400 tons, that is, capable of carrying guns from 57mm up and/or
> missiles around the seasparrow size.
>
{SNIP}
> Dott. Piergiorgio.
Isn't that what Penguin is for?:
Dennis
I am the god of Hellfire and I bring you:
Fire
I'll take you to burn.
Fire
I'll take you to learn.
I'll see you burn!
You fought hard and you saved and learned
but all of it's going to burn.
And your mind
your tiny mind
you know you've really been so blind.
Now's your time burn your mind.
You're falling far too far behind.
Oh no
oh no
oh no
you gonna burn!
Fire
to destroy all you've done.
Fire
to end all you've become.
I'll feel your burn!
You've been living like a little girl
in the middle of your little world.
and your mind
your tiny mind
you know you've really been so blind.
Now's your time burn your mind
you're falling far too far behind.
Fire
I'll take you to burn.
Fire
I'll take you to learn.
You gonna burn ... burn ... burn ...
Fire
I'll take you to burn ...
- Arthur Brown
dott.Piergiorgio
>> the ~8km range of the hellfire and the inherent low stealthiness of
>> helos on the open sea preclude stand-off attacks against ships above
>> ~400 tons, that is, capable of carrying guns from 57mm up and/or
>> missiles around the seasparrow size.
>>
> {SNIP}
> Isn't that what Penguin is for?:
Indeed. If we want to draw a parallel with weapons system of a century
or so ago, the penguin is like the "secondary battery" available to
helos, the main being the harpoon and the tertiary these navalised
hellfire.... I guess everyone can agree that a penguin is an overkill
against pirate skiffs and iranian large RHIB and similiar types of
pousserie Navale.
Paul J. Adam
dott.Piergiorgio <dott.Pierg...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> writes
>OTOH, this concept can also be an excellent anti-landing system, esp.
>in defence of narrow and/or steep coastlines (here in Italy the idea
>will be readily adopted ;) and more so on the other side of the
>Adriatic :( )
Sweden and Norway have done exactly that for some time...
--
He thinks too much, such men are dangerous.
Paul J. Adam
David E. Powell
True but more Hellfires can be carried than Penguins, depending on the
range and number of the threats, both have their own power alleys...
dump...@hotmail.com
<dott.PiergiorgioNI...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
[SNIP]
> Indeed. If we want to draw a parallel with weapons system of a century
> or so ago, the penguin is like the "secondary battery" available to
> helos, the main being the harpoon and the tertiary these navalisedhellfire.... I guess everyone can agree that a penguin is an overkill
> against pirate skiffs and iranian large RHIB and similiar types of
> pousserie Navale.
>
> Best regards from Italy,
> Dott. Piergiorgio.
Can any helicopters actually launch Harpoon?
Timur
Andrew Chaplin
news:f1af673f-5e8e-4dea...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 26, 2:02�am, "dott.Piergiorgio"
> <dott.PiergiorgioNI...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>
> [SNIP]
>
>> Indeed. If we want to draw a parallel with weapons system of a
>> century or so ago, the penguin is like the "secondary battery"
>> available to helos, the main being the harpoon and the tertiary these
>> navalisedhellfire.... I guess everyone can agree that a penguin is an
>> overkill
>> against pirate skiffs and iranian large RHIB and similiar types of
>> pousserie Navale.
>
> Can any helicopters actually launch Harpoon?
Global Security's page on the AGM-84 suggests not:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/agm-84.htm.
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)
Typhoon502
wrote:
> dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote innews:f1af673f-5e8e-4dea...@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Dec 26, 2:02 am, "dott.Piergiorgio"
> > <dott.PiergiorgioNI...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>
> > [SNIP]
>
> >> Indeed. If we want to draw a parallel with weapons system of a
> >> century or so ago, the penguin is like the "secondary battery"
> >> available to helos, the main being the harpoon and the tertiary these
> >> navalisedhellfire.... I guess everyone can agree that a penguin is an
> >> overkill
> >> against pirate skiffs and iranian large RHIB and similiar types of
> >> pousserie Navale.
>
> > Can any helicopters actually launch Harpoon?
>
> Global Security's page on the AGM-84 suggests not:http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/agm-84.htm.
I remember seeing a theoretical Sea Apache drawing with Harpoon
loaded, but obviously that never came to pass.
guy
I would go with Sea Skua :-)
Guy
dump...@hotmail.com
> On 26 Dec, 08:09, dumpst...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Dec 25, 5:25 am, "dott.Piergiorgio"
>
> > <dott.PiergiorgioNI...@KAIGUN.fastwebnet.it> wrote:
>
> > {SNIP}
>
> > > helos on the open sea preclude stand-off attacks against ships above
> > > ~400 tons, that is, capable of carrying guns from 57mm up and/or
> > > missiles around the seasparrow size.
>
> > {SNIP}
>
> > > Dott. Piergiorgio.
>
> > Isn't that what Penguin is for?:
>
> >http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/agm-119.htm
>
> I would go with Sea Skua :-)
>
> Guy
Doesn't Sea Skua require the launching helo to maintain line-of-sight
to the
target, since Sea Skua uses semi-active radar homing (like the
Sparrow
AAM)?
With Penguin, you can launch & leave, or just duck back down below
the
radar horizon after firing. With 3rd party targeting info from a UAV
or other
source, the launching platform can fire Penguin without ever even
seeing
(or being seen by) the target directly.
Paul J. Adam
<1b7752a7-5d58-4135...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
dump...@hotmail.com writes
>Doesn't Sea Skua require the launching helo to maintain line-of-sight
>to the
>target, since Sea Skua uses semi-active radar homing (like the
>Sparrow
>AAM)?
Correct: chosen because it gives more discrimination & control if there
are multiple contacts in the water. (Skua & its Sea Spray radar were
designed to keep the Lynx handily out of SA-N-4 range: a primary target
was the Nanuchka-class FFL)
>With Penguin, you can launch & leave, or just duck back down below
>the
>radar horizon after firing. With 3rd party targeting info from a UAV
>or other
>source, the launching platform can fire Penguin without ever even
>seeing
>(or being seen by) the target directly.
However, you only get one or two Penguin, while a Lynx can carry four
Skua. A lot depends on who, where and how you expect to be fighting.
Jack Linthicum
<n...@jrwlynchANDNOTTHIS.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <1b7752a7-5d58-4135-a8f9-1874ee6de...@k23g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
> dumpst...@hotmail.com writes
Like the Japanese with the torpedoes and bombs dilemma at Wake.
Richard Casady
<ne...@jrwlynchANDNOTTHIS.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>However, you only get one or two Penguin, while a Lynx can carry four
>Skua. A lot depends on who, where and how you expect to be fighting.
Two 'launch and leave' is better than four 'fire and nursemaid' at
least if I am doing the flying. They probably make radar homing
missiles, and there is the Mk 1 eyeball. Can you say 'sitting duck'?
Casady.
Paul J. Adam
<richar...@earthlink.net> writes
At eight miles? There isn't a lot that will pick a low-level helicopter
out of clutter and multipath at that range, and what there is, is
mounted on ships much too large to engage with Sea Skua.
If you're hunting rabbit, you don't insist on using a .700 Nitro Express
just in case you run into the one from "...Holy Grail".
Jim Yanik
news:p36sj55d6ec7fi5fs...@4ax.com:
USN Spike missile,fire and forget.E-O or laser guidance.Small,and "cheap".
--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com
Jack Linthicum
> Richard Casady <richardcas...@earthlink.net> wrote innews:p36sj55d6ec7fi5fs...@4ax.com:
and accurate? From what distance?
Jack Linthicum
The thing has a range of two miles.
Paul J. Adam
<aa8f3344-969a-4224...@3g2000vbp.googlegroups.com>, Jack
Linthicum <jackli...@earthlink.net> writes
>On Jan 1, 6:27�pm, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
>> USN Spike missile,fire and forget.E-O or laser guidance.Small,and "cheap".
>The thing has a range of two miles.
>
>http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/spike.html
Again, Sea Skua gets credited with eight miles, which is still out of
range of anything that you don't have to design a corvette-sized ship to
carry and most of the systems you do. Not bad for a weapon first fired
in 1982 and proven in 1991.
At two miles against a swarm threat, you're vulnerable to MANPADS from
your target and its friends. Doesn't mean Spike or Hellfire on USN helos
is a bad idea, does mean you need to be very aware of the threat and how
to manage it.
Alan Lothian
<fjmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> "Paul J. Adam" <ne...@jrwlynchANDNOTTHIS.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> :In message
> :
>
> There are lots of other weapons in the same general class with various
> ranges - LGR and an AS version of AIM-9 are merely two of them.
Isn't this swarm threat business precisely what that ferocious Mk110
57mm was designed for? (I don't really have one hidden in the chestnut
forest, but you all knew that.) 220rpm 6-pounder ammunition is going
to make things seriously difficult for incoming jihadis. It has the
range and it's a lot cheaper than guided missiles.
--
"The past resembles the future as water resembles water" -- Ibn Khaldun
If you wish to email me, try putting a dot between alan and lothian.
Blueyonder is a thing of the past.