CVN, CVS, CVF?
gOD
Cheers
Tom Vart
C = Carrier V= Fixed wing S= STOVL
C = Carrier V= Fixed wing F= Fleet
"gOD" <loado...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:f9cb0ef5.03031...@posting.google.com...
Andre Lieven
> Quick question, what do these actually stand for?
CV is the US shorthand official designation for " aircraft carrier ",
going right back to 1922, and CV-1, USS Langley. When a third letter
is appended to CV, it is used as a specifier of what type/size or
mission said carrier has.
So, CVN means Aircraft Carrier, Nuclear powered, CVS meant ( Since
there aren't any such ships so designated now ) Aircraft Carrier,
Support, which in USN operations meant ASW aircraft aboard, and
CVF is a UK term, for their planned medium sized carriers.
Andre
--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
The Man Prayer, Red Green.
Andrew McCruden
news:b57jku$cjl$1...@freenet9.carleton.ca:
> gOD (loado...@yahoo.com) writes:
>> Quick question, what do these actually stand for?
>
> CV is the US shorthand official designation for " aircraft
> carrier ", going right back to 1922, and CV-1, USS Langley. When
> a third letter is appended to CV, it is used as a specifier of
> what type/size or mission said carrier has.
>
> So, CVN means Aircraft Carrier, Nuclear powered, CVS meant (
> Since there aren't any such ships so designated now ) Aircraft
> Carrier, Support, which in USN operations meant ASW aircraft
IIRC Principe De Austraus, Garibaldi and the Invincible's are all
declared to NATO (which uses a vaiant of the USN designation system)
as CVS's
The Devil's Advocaat
news:3e77...@baen1673807.greenlnk.net...
'V' from the very start (CV-1 Langley?), i.e. before they had choppers.
What were they differentiating the fixed wing aircraft from?
Paul H. Lemmen
"The Devil's Advocaat" <thedevil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b57tak$fve$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
tenders....you know, lighter than air ships. They were not 'fixed wing'
Slainte,
--
Paul H. Lemmen
General Norman Schwarzkopf : "I believe that forgiving them is God's
function. Our job is simply to arrange the meeting."
Nigel Isherwood
"The Devil's Advocaat" <thedevil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b57tak$fve$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
Airships - V stands for lighter than air, apparently - though I don't know
why.
Nigel Isherwood
Jim McLaughlin
"Cruisers, aViation....
Thus CV.......
The CV designation supposedly derives from that initial
classification......
Inertia is a powerful force......
"The Devil's Advocaat" <thedevil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b57tak$fve$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
scott s.
news:3e777eb1$0$4862$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com:
I think that would be Z.
After WWII they decided to designate some CVs as CVA (attack)
these carried F-8, A-4, A-3, etc and smaller ones as CVS
(anti-sub) carried S-2. I think much of the concept was based
on the idea that the CVA would have nuclear ordnance delivery
capability.
When they developed the S-3 it was intended to go into the CVA wings
and do away with the CVS-type.
scott s.
.
Andreas Parsch
> That's what I'd read before, too. But I'm puzzled as to why they
> added the 'V' from the very start (CV-1 Langley?), i.e. before they
> had choppers. What were they differentiating the fixed wing aircraft
> from?
From airships. In the old days, "V" meant in fact "Heavier-than-Air"
and "Z" designated Lighter-than-Air craft.
Andreas
George
gOD wrote:
> Quick question, what do these actually stand for?
>
> Cheers
Hi,
Try this site
http://www.nvr.navy.mil/class.htm
Doesnt explain CVF (Its European, these are US), but its a nice resource.
George
Ogden Johnson III
>"Tom Vart" <tom....@baesystems.com> wrote in message
>> "gOD" <loado...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > Quick question, what do these actually stand for?
>> C = Carrier V= Fixed wing N= Nuclear
>> C = Carrier V= Fixed wing S= STOVL
>> C = Carrier V= Fixed wing F= Fleet
>That's what I'd read before, too. But I'm puzzled as to why they added the
>'V' from the very start (CV-1 Langley?), i.e. before they had choppers.
>What were they differentiating the fixed wing aircraft from?
The "V" originally designated heavier-than-air just as "Z" designated
lighter-than-air [dirigibles, blimps]. By default, all HTA aircraft,
at that time *were* fixed-wing, whether mono-, bi-, tri-, or however
many-planes. When helos arrived, "V" became fixed wing,
heavier-than-air, and "H" designated rotary-winged, heavier-than-air.
Since CVs operate both types [whether the now gone CVA/CVAN/CVS or the
current CV/CVN], we probably should consider the "V" for ship
designations to retain the "heavier-than-air" connotation and ignore
the fixed-wing/rotary- winged distinctions. I suspect that's what the
Navy decided to do.
OJ III
Andrew Toppan
wrote:
>C = Carrier V= Fixed wing N= Nuclear
>C = Carrier V= Fixed wing S= STOVL
>C = Carrier V= Fixed wing F= Fleet
You got V and N right. Everything else is wrong. C was originally cruiser.
Together, "CV" is "carrier", but "C" alone is still cruiser.
S is Anti-Submarine, not STOVL. USN is the only Navy to officially use this
designation, and at the time nobody had heard of STOVL.
F is Future, and is only used in reference to RN's future carrier program. The
"fleet carriers" of WWII were simply CV.
--
Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself"
"Haze Gray & Underway" - Naval History, DANFS, World Navies Today,
Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more - http://www.hazegray.org/
Andrew Toppan
<thedevil...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>That's what I'd read before, too. But I'm puzzled as to why they added the
>'V' from the very start (CV-1 Langley?), i.e. before they had choppers.
>What were they differentiating the fixed wing aircraft from?
Airships = Z.
And V was originally "heavier than air", not fixed-wing.
Andrew Toppan
<nigel.i...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
>Airships - V stands for lighter than air, apparently - though I don't know
>why.
Z, not V, means lighter-than-air.
The Devil's Advocaat
"The Devil's Advocaat" <thedevil...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b57tak$fve$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
understand how they chose the letter V - why not H?
Matt Richards
>
> OK. I now understand that V stands for 'heavier than air'. But I don't
> understand how they chose the letter V - why not H?
>
I think it was because CA was already taken, so they used the next letter in
aViation to make it CV.
Matt.
Alisha's Addict
>Quick question, what do these actually stand for?
>
>Cheers
CVN = Carrier Vessel Nuclear
(note N for Nuclear Power, not armed)
CVF = Carrier Vessel Future (i.e. Future Carrier)
CVS =
:-) Depends who you ask ...
Some people will say CVS = Carrier Vessel Small. However, a more
politically acceptable answer would be along the lines of :
CVS = Carrier Vessel Strike
CVS = Carrier Vessel (anti-)Submarine
The anti-sub one is more likely as carriers like the Invincibles were
geared more to carrying ASW helo's to try and hunt down Russian subs
in the Cold War era.
CV21 is as I understand it Carrier Vessel 21st Century, with CVX being
Big CV that's one step on from a Nimitz class.
Pete Lilleyman
pete.li...@blueyonder.co.getrid.uk
(please get rid of ".getrid" to reply direct)
(don't get rid of the dontspam though ;-)
Justin Broderick
[...]
> But I'm puzzled as to why they added the
> 'V' from the very start (CV-1 Langley?), i.e. before they had choppers.
> What were they differentiating the fixed wing aircraft from?
You're right, there was no reason to specify fixed-wing. But
originally "V" indicated heavier-than-air, as opposed to "Z" for
lighter-than-air. In mid-1944 they split heavier-than-air into "V"
for fixed-wing and "H" for rotary-wing.
As to how or why V and Z were chosen, I have never seen anything
definitive.
--Justin
John Halliwell
<acto...@gwi.net> writes
>F is Future, and is only used in reference to RN's future carrier program. The
>"fleet carriers" of WWII were simply CV.
Personally I think 'Figment' is more appropriate.
--
John
Andrew Toppan
<alishas.don...@blueyonder.co.getrid.uk> wrote:
>CVN = Carrier Vessel Nuclear
>CVF = Carrier Vessel Future (i.e. Future Carrier)
>Some people will say CVS = Carrier Vessel Small. However, a more
>CVS = Carrier Vessel Strike
>CVS = Carrier Vessel (anti-)Submarine
>CV21 is as I understand it Carrier Vessel 21st Century
Every last one of these is wrong. Sad thing is, a half-dozen people have
already posted CORRECT information, and all this is in the FAQ!
Jack Love
You're asking one of the great imponderables...best answer, "It's the
Navy." Consider the older version of aircraft designation in the USN
the F4U: F for fighter, 4 for 4th aircraft FROM, U = Chance Vought;
as opposed to F4F: F for fighter, 4 for 4th aircraft FROM, F =
Grumman.
In some benighted world it makes sense...but it's best not to try to
get there.
BF Lake
news:dd6f7vkkert3j69g1...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 17:16:12 -0000, "Tom Vart" <tom....@baesystems.com>
> S is Anti-Submarine, not STOVL. USN is the only Navy to officially use
this
> designation, and at the time nobody had heard of STOVL.
Darn, last time I thought Andrew had been persuaded the S stands for
"support" not ASW. Now we have to start all over again.<G> 1955-6 Janes
has ENTERPRISE and some ESSEXs as CVS, ASW Support Aircraft Carrier. Notes
to E says "reclassified as CVA in Oct 1952, but again reclassified as an ASW
Support Aircraft Carrier, CVS, in July 1953, and in the event of a war she
would be employed on anti-submarine warfare and fleet support duties."
Same in 61 Janes, but in 1974 Janes the list of letters has changed CVS to
ASW Aircraft Carrier. Don't know when that changed along with several
other classification letters, but the evidence is clear that CVS originally
and for many years meant "support" as opposed to "attack"
Regards,
Barry
Andrew Toppan
>has ENTERPRISE and some ESSEXs as CVS, ASW Support Aircraft Carrier. Notes
>to E says "reclassified as CVA in Oct 1952, but again reclassified as an ASW
>Support Aircraft Carrier, CVS, in July 1953, and in the event of a war she
>would be employed on anti-submarine warfare and fleet support duties."
I went through this circus on ENTERPRISE some time ago. She reclassified as
an "ASW Support Ship" in 1952, with no change in designation. In 1963 she
became a CVS.
I've never seen any USN documentation identifying CVS as a "support carrier".
BF Lake
> I went through this circus on ENTERPRISE some time ago. She reclassified
as
> an "ASW Support Ship" in 1952, with no change in designation. In 1963 she
> became a CVS.
>
> I've never seen any USN documentation identifying CVS as a "support
carrier".
According to Janes, their1955 and 1961 lists of classifications (CVS =ASW
Support Aircraft Carrier) is as "officially promulgated" and intro gives
credit to USN attaché in London and also the info officer in DC. The 1974
Janes says the list now showing CVS as ASW Aircraft Carrier is as officially
promulgated by the Secretary of the Navy. Some of the ESSEX conversions
home pages (from memory) mention being sent to Yankee Station in "support"
too. Sometime after 1961 and before 1974 there was a switcheroo it looks
like. In the early 50s ASW was usually indicated by either an E or a K.
I still believe the CVS S means/meant "support" (so sue me<G>)
Regards,
Barry
Ogden Johnson III
>Alisha's Addict <alishas.don...@blueyonder.co.getrid.uk> wrote:
>
>>CVN = Carrier Vessel Nuclear
>>CVF = Carrier Vessel Future (i.e. Future Carrier)
>>Some people will say CVS = Carrier Vessel Small. However, a more
>>CVS = Carrier Vessel Strike
>>CVS = Carrier Vessel (anti-)Submarine
>>CV21 is as I understand it Carrier Vessel 21st Century
>
>Every last one of these is wrong. Sad thing is, a half-dozen people have
>already posted CORRECT information, and all this is in the FAQ!
Alisha's Addict is so pussy-whipped^W^W^Wbemused he doesn't have time
to read previous posts or the FAQ?
OJ III
Barbarossa
justi...@my-deja.com (Justin Broderick) wrote:
> You're right, there was no reason to specify fixed-wing. But
> originally "V" indicated heavier-than-air, as opposed to "Z" for
> lighter-than-air. In mid-1944 they split heavier-than-air into "V"
> for fixed-wing and "H" for rotary-wing.
>
> As to how or why V and Z were chosen, I have never seen anything
> definitive.
Barbarossa:
"Z" is for Zeppelin.
Of lighter-than-air craft, there are two types:
Free balloons, and "dirigible" or steerable airships.
Of Dirigibles there are, generally, two kinds:
Rigid (or less commonly, semi-rigid) airships, which almost
universally were called Type A: Zeppelins.
And Non-rigid airships, or Type B: Limp.
--
_____________B_a_r_b_a_r_o_s_s_a____________ ;^{>
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whe...@ucsd.edu
Tom Schoene
news:whewitt-949568...@news3.news.adelphia.net
> In article <f603cb5e.03031...@posting.google.com>,
> justi...@my-deja.com (Justin Broderick) wrote:
>
> > You're right, there was no reason to specify fixed-wing. But
> > originally "V" indicated heavier-than-air, as opposed to "Z" for
> > lighter-than-air. In mid-1944 they split heavier-than-air into "V"
> > for fixed-wing and "H" for rotary-wing.
> >
> > As to how or why V and Z were chosen, I have never seen anything
> > definitive.
>
> Barbarossa:
>
> "Z" is for Zeppelin.
That *may* be the origin, though it's far from certain. The USN certainly
did not limit itself to Zepelin style rigids. There were many non-rigid
lighter-than-air craft, and they still used the Z designation.
> Of Dirigibles there are, generally, two kinds:
>
> Rigid (or less commonly, semi-rigid) airships, which almost
> universally were called Type A: Zeppelins.
>
> And Non-rigid airships, or Type B: Limp.
Just to avoid any confusion, these Type A/Type B designations are typically
ascribed to Britain, and were not part of any American scheme, AFAIK.
--
Tom Schoene Replace "invalid" with "net" to e-mail
"If brave men and women never died, there would be nothing
special about bravery." -- Andy Rooney (attributed)
Tom Vart
I have recently served on a CVS - HMS Illustrious (R06) to be precise (my
3rd tour in 23 years in the Royal Navy) This is a Royal Navy Asset and is,
and always has been officially designated as a CVS, (This is actually a NATO
Standard Platform Designator - nothing to do with previous USN Designators -
You will find other ships such as ITS Garibaldi and SNS Principe De Asturias
also designated as CVS - they are not ASW specific platforms either). The
ships prime role is not ASW and has not been since the 80's when her sonar
and Sonar teams were removed, her prime role is Aircraft Deck, on which she
carries STOVL.
You can find these Standard Nato Designators in a useful publication called
ACP 165-E
In the list are the following:
CV Aircraft Carrier (General)
CVA Aircraft Carrier (Attack)
CVH Aircraft Carrier (Helicopter)
CVN Aircraft Carrier (Nuclear Powered)
CVS Aircraft Carrier (STOVL)
Agree with the CVF, my apologies for misleading anyone here.
I think the problem we have is that we are talking the same language in
different countries.
"Andrew Toppan" <acto...@gwi.net> wrote in message
news:dd6f7vkkert3j69g1...@4ax.com...
Matt Clonfero
<dg...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:>CV is the US shorthand official designation for " aircraft carrier ",
>going right back to 1922, and CV-1, USS Langley. When a third letter
>is appended to CV, it is used as a specifier of what type/size or
>mission said carrier has.
>
>So, CVN means Aircraft Carrier, Nuclear powered, CVS meant ( Since
>there aren't any such ships so designated now ) Aircraft Carrier,
>Support,
CVS means "Aircraft Carrier, Anti-Submarine" - and is the current
designation of the INVINCIBLE class carriers currently in RN service.
>which in USN operations meant ASW aircraft aboard, and
>CVF is a UK term, for their planned medium sized carriers.
CV(F) is Future Aircraft Carrier - modern RN projects tend to have the
designation for the ship, with a F-for-future or R-for-replacement
tagged on until the ships enter service.
Aetherem Vincere
Matt
--
To err is human
To forgive is not
Air Force Policy
Matt Clonfero
<tom....@baesystems.com> wrote:
>C = Carrier V= Fixed wing N= Nuclear
>C = Carrier V= Fixed wing S= STOVL
S = Anti Submarine
>C = Carrier V= Fixed wing F= Fleet
F = Future (not a true part of the NATO designation system)
Matt Clonfero
>S is Anti-Submarine, not STOVL. USN is the only Navy to officially use this
>designation, and at the time nobody had heard of STOVL.
CVS is used by the RN, too.
scott s.
> On Tue, 18 Mar 2003 15:58:42 -0800, "BF Lake" <nos...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>has ENTERPRISE and some ESSEXs as CVS, ASW Support Aircraft Carrier.
>>Notes to E says "reclassified as CVA in Oct 1952, but again
>>reclassified as an ASW Support Aircraft Carrier, CVS, in July 1953,
>>and in the event of a war she would be employed on anti-submarine
>>warfare and fleet support duties."
>
> I went through this circus on ENTERPRISE some time ago. She
> reclassified as an "ASW Support Ship" in 1952, with no change in
> designation. In 1963 she became a CVS.
>
> I've never seen any USN documentation identifying CVS as a "support
> carrier".
Likewise, I don't think VS ever stood for asw support squadron.
scott s.
.
BF Lake
"scott s." <75270...@csi.com> wrote
> >>has ENTERPRISE and some ESSEXs as CVS, ASW Support Aircraft Carrier.
>
> > carrier".
>
> Likewise, I don't think VS ever stood for asw support squadron.
>
planes used for ASW (I think). The note in the 1955 Janes is telling IMO
because it separates ASW from "fleet support duties" suggesting that ASW was
a sub-set of "support". I suggest "support" might have included ASW, night
fighters (IIRC all weather, night planes didn't come in till late 50s early
60s?) eg Sabre jet of Korea was a day fighter, perhaps "spare deck" or
maintenance facility to take load off CVAs on station, etc.
Another interpretation is the WW2 use of "support" in terms of "close
support " and "distant support" where CVE HK groups were not part of a
convoy's close support screen but were in "support". Since CVE meant a jeep
carrier, I suspect they thought up CVS for when a big carrier was used for
ASW support.
Regards,
Barry