U.S. Blackwater military shoots 9 year old boy in head, execution style
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
EXCLUSIVE�Blackwater�s Youngest Victim: Father of 9 Year-Old Killed in
Nisour Square Gives Most Detailed Account of Massacre to Date
Today a Democracy Now! exclusive report from Jeremy Scahill about a nine
year old boy, shot in the head and killed by Blackwater in the infamous
Nisour Squre massacre. His father, who is suing the private military
contractor, provides the most detailed eyewitness account of the massacre
to date. Scahill has conducted an in-depth investigation of the massacre
and of nine-year old Ali Kinani�s death. He files an exclusive report
with Rick Rowley of Big Noise Films.[includes rush transcript]
Ordie55
I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
innocent people killed by our enemies there?
Maybe it just does not fit your I HATE AMERICA agenda?
God Bless Our Private Contractors!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NseSuEDSthE
On Jan 30, 6:27 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu>
wrote:
> EXCLUSIVE Blackwater s Youngest Victim: Father of 9 Year-Old Killed in
> Nisour Square Gives Most Detailed Account of Massacre to Date
>
> Today a Democracy Now! exclusive report from Jeremy Scahill about a nine
> year old boy, shot in the head and killed by Blackwater in the infamous
> Nisour Squre massacre. His father, who is suing the private military
> contractor, provides the most detailed eyewitness account of the massacre
> to date. Scahill has conducted an in-depth investigation of the massacre
> and of nine-year old Ali Kinani s death. He files an exclusive report
Eunometic
wrote:
> EXCLUSIVE Blackwater s Youngest Victim: Father of 9 Year-Old Killed in
> Nisour Square Gives Most Detailed Account of Massacre to Date
>
> Today a Democracy Now! exclusive report from Jeremy Scahill about a nine
> year old boy, shot in the head and killed by Blackwater in the infamous
> Nisour Squre massacre. His father, who is suing the private military
> contractor, provides the most detailed eyewitness account of the massacre
> to date. Scahill has conducted an in-depth investigation of the massacre
It was so much better when Saddam Hussein's security forces were doing
the accidental killing.
Here is a fact: put young men with high velocity automatic weapons in
situations where non uniformed people are trying to kill them then the
are occaisionally going to get spooked, or shoot someone
unintentionally, they'll freak out. Happened to Germans, Russians,
Americans.
The Blackwater guys want to live to and are doing an extremely
difficult job well beyon ther supposed remit.
deem...@aol.com
It would also help if those who want to call attention to the
excesses would refrain from sensationalism. "Eecution style" isn't
what's in the story. Doing shit like this only makes it less likely
anyone will listen to the very real problems.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
>
> I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
> innocent people killed by our enemies there?
This 9 year old boy executed by U.S. military is not my enemy.
Son, I don't post about "our" enemies because "our" enemies don't pretend
to represent me as the U.S. government does, and people defending their
country from an invading army are not my enemy.
Over 1 million innocent Iraq people have been killed who would still
be alive if the U.S. had not started the war.
Over 4 million innocent Iraq people have become refugees, 2 million of
them left their country, all because the arrogant bully U.S. started the war.
I wonder why you think speaking up for these innocent Iraq people is wrong.
> On Jan 30, 6:27 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>EXCLUSIVE Blackwater s Youngest Victim: Father of 9 Year-Old Killed in
>>Nisour Square Gives Most Detailed Account of Massacre to Date
>>
>>Today a Democracy Now! exclusive report from Jeremy Scahill about a nine
>>year old boy, shot in the head and killed by Blackwater in the infamous
>>Nisour Squre massacre. His father, who is suing the private military
>>contractor, provides the most detailed eyewitness account of the massacre
>>to date. Scahill has conducted an in-depth investigation of the massacre
>>and of nine-year old Ali Kinani s death. He files an exclusive report
>>with Rick Rowley of Big Noise Films.[includes rush transcript]
>>
>> http://www.democracynow.org/
--
Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
definition:
murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Thank you, I stand corrected, I thought this was new information on
this massacre; it was not in-the-head execution style.
definition:
massacre - the unnecessary, indiscriminate killing of a large number of human beings
the transcript:
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/29/exclusiveblackwaters_youngest_victim_father_of_9
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
>
I agree they went over the line. Whether it will ever be possible
to prosecute them is another matter. Civil suits might be the best
route...like the father is doing...because the standard of proof is
lower.
As Eunometic said, give people guns and bad shit happens. therefore,
we should try to keep our wars, etc to a minimum.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
No, I don't buy the "shit happens" justification, which excuses any
murder by any military, and is just as wrong as the sensationalism you decried.
deem...@aol.com
I'm not justifying it, I'm just telling it like it is. Train
people to kill, put them in a situation where others are trying to
kill them, and the chances of bad things happening are pretty good. If
you've never been there, you really don't know how it is because there
is no comparable situation in civilian life. That's not saying you're
not entitled to your opinion, but it's not a black and white situation
like you seem to believe.
>
> --
> Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
> no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
And when you're scared, you just might do things you wouldn't do
otherwise. And when you're holding an automatic weapon, grenades, etc,
you just might do a bit of damage.
>
> definition:
> murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.-
Well, you added the NO EXCEPTIONS. Murder is subjective. That's
also the reality.
rlspamsump
wrote:
> Ordie55 wrote:
>
> This 9 year old boy executed by U.S. military is not my enemy.
You really should at least try to keep your players straight.
Blackwater is exactly what branch of the US military?
David E. Powell
I agree. Pissing off the audience and having your glaring headline
refuted by the link itself isn't going to help. If anything you will
make the linked stuff look bad and hurt your own arguments. Then again
logical discussion is last on the OP's to do list. If people agreed
he'd have no fun, he's all about trying to stir people up. Must have a
great life.
Joe Irvin
"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote in message
news:h9ednTZ6R6QIFvnW...@supernews.com...
> Ordie55 wrote:
>>
>> I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
>> innocent people killed by our enemies there?
>
> This 9 year old boy executed by U.S. military is not my enemy.
Dr Quin, don't you think using the words 'executed by the US military' are a
little strong? Do you think they went there with the intention of
'executing' that kid? ... do you believe in the fog of war ... mistakes or
errors?
>
> Son, I don't post about "our" enemies because "our" enemies don't pretend
> to represent me as the U.S. government does, and people defending their
> country from an invading army are not my enemy.
>
> Over 1 million innocent Iraq people have been killed who would still
> be alive if the U.S. had not started the war.
The US didn't start the war ... Iraq failed to live up to the cease fire
agreement of the first Gulf war if that is what you are talking about. You
also fail to take into account the Muslim jihadists have been at war with
the US for at least the last 20+ years, thru several administrations.
>
> Over 4 million innocent Iraq people have become refugees, 2 million of
> them left their country, all because the arrogant bully U.S. started the
> war.
See above, the US didn't start the war ... there was a cease fire from the
first Gulf war. Does the govt of Iraq share any of the blame for the 2
million refugees or is it only the US's fault?
>
> I wonder why you think speaking up for these innocent Iraq people is
> wrong.
Speaking up for innocent people isn't wrong, but to say the US is there to
'execute' innocent people is wrong also ... Saddam had no problem with
killing his own people ... who spoke up for them? The US has probably the
most stringent rules of engagement of any military in history at the cost of
US lives. In war there are always mistakes, but I'm not trying to excuse
them.
!Jones
<ord...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Always Trolling!!!
>
>I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
>innocent people killed by our enemies there?
>Maybe it just does not fit your I HATE AMERICA agenda?
Oh, well... I tend to treat "Dr. Quinn" postings like I treat those
emails that "... humbly request my attention to the urgent matter of
$250,000" ... whatever. Do you really need to read it? If you reply,
then the result is pretty predictable, I say. Why bother?
>God Bless Our Private Contractors!
But, I'm not going there! Let's just call 'em what they are:
mercenaries. We shouldn't use them. If our freedom is really on the
line, and I doubt it, then we should get on a war footing and
institute a draft... *AND* a tax increase that covers it! Isn't your
freedom worth it? Will you not write the check to cover your freedom?
Jones
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
You are blowing it off...minimizing it...here is what you said that I agree with
"this only makes it less likely anyone will listen to the very real problems".
That's what you are doing, making it less likely that anyone will listen
to the very real problems...the problem of *unaccountable* private
mercenary U.S. armies like Blackwater.
Train
> people to kill, put them in a situation where others are trying to
> kill them, and the chances of bad things happening are pretty good. If
> you've never been there, you really don't know how it is because there
> is no comparable situation in civilian life. That's not saying you're
> not entitled to your opinion, but it's not a black and white situation
> like you seem to believe.
No, it is black and white: follow our laws and don't make excuses for
going "over the line". Private U.S. military, like Blackwater, are created
specifically so that they do not have to be held accountable, not follow
our laws. It most certainly is black and white.
>
>
>>--
>>Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
>>no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
>
> And when you're scared, you just might do things you wouldn't do
> otherwise. And when you're holding an automatic weapon, grenades, etc,
> you just might do a bit of damage.
No, this is not referencing an in-the-heat-of-battle situation; it is
a calm beforehand thinking about and decision of the morality of this war.
>
>
>>definition:
>> murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.-
>
>
> Well, you added the NO EXCEPTIONS. Murder is subjective. That's
> also the reality.
Yes, NO EXCEPTIONS is correct. You appear to want an exception for U.S. military and *only* U.S. military.
And yes guilt determination is subjective (as it is for every other crime).
You're really trying hard to justify "excesses"...to minimize them...to minimize murder.
;-)
--
Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
definition:
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Blackwater is a PMC, Private Military Company...it is military and it is
U.S., therefore it is a U.S. military, and *sanctioned* by the U.S. government,
operating with approval of and on behalf of the U.S. government.
Branch name? ...how about Private Unaccountable Mercenary Branch?
and yes they do smear the other branches
;-)
deem...@aol.com
>
> > I'm not justifying it, I'm just telling it like it is.
>
> You are blowing it off...minimizing it...here is what you said that I agree with
> "this only makes it less likely anyone will listen to the very real problems".
No, I'm telling you that crappy things happen in crappy
situations.
>
> That's what you are doing, making it less likely that anyone will listen
> to the very real problems...the problem of *unaccountable* private
> mercenary U.S. armies like Blackwater.
No, I'm telling you crappy things happen in crappy situations.
>
> Train
>
> > people to kill, put them in a situation where others are trying to
> > kill them, and the chances of bad things happening are pretty good. If
> > you've never been there, you really don't know how it is because there
> > is no comparable situation in civilian life. That's not saying you're
> > not entitled to your opinion, but it's not a black and white situation
> > like you seem to believe.
>
> No, it is black and white: follow our laws and don't make excuses for
> going "over the line".
The line is gray. If you are afraid for your life, you have more
"legal" options available.
Private U.S. military, like Blackwater, are created
> specifically so that they do not have to be held accountable, not follow
> our laws. It most certainly is black and white.
That's not why they were created. That does seem to have been an
unfortunate byproduct.
>
>
>
> >>--
> >>Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
> >>no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>
> > And when you're scared, you just might do things you wouldn't do
> > otherwise. And when you're holding an automatic weapon, grenades, etc,
> > you just might do a bit of damage.
>
> No, this is not referencing an in-the-heat-of-battle situation; it is
> a calm beforehand thinking about and decision of the morality of this war.
The "incident" was nothing of the sort unless you're one of those
who believe they just decided one day to blow away a few Iraqis. I'm
one of those who think they got in a crappy situation and over-
reacted....but neither of us was there.
>
>
>
> >>definition:
> >> murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.-
>
> > Well, you added the NO EXCEPTIONS. Murder is subjective. That's
> > also the reality.
>
> Yes, NO EXCEPTIONS is correct. You appear to want an exception for U.S. military and *only* U.S. military.
Where do you get that? I'd think the same way no matter what the
nationalities involved.
> And yes guilt determination is subjective (as it is for every other crime).
>
> You're really trying hard to justify "excesses"...to minimize them...to minimize murder.
No, I'm stating what is blindingly obvious to anyone who has
been in a combat situation or can empathise with those who have been
there.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote in message
> news:h9ednTZ6R6QIFvnW...@supernews.com...
>
>>Ordie55 wrote:
>>
>>>I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
>>>innocent people killed by our enemies there?
>>
>>This 9 year old boy executed by U.S. military is not my enemy.
>
>
> Dr Quin, don't you think using the words 'executed by the US military' are a
> little strong? Do you think they went there with the intention of
> 'executing' that kid? ... do you believe in the fog of war ... mistakes or
> errors?
Yes, they went there with the intention of blowing away anyone who
looked suspicious, knowing full well they could get away with it as
people make excuses about "the fog of war" for *every* such massacre.
>
>>Son, I don't post about "our" enemies because "our" enemies don't pretend
>>to represent me as the U.S. government does, and people defending their
>>country from an invading army are not my enemy.
>>
>>Over 1 million innocent Iraq people have been killed who would still
>>be alive if the U.S. had not started the war.
>
>
> The US didn't start the war ... Iraq failed to live up to the cease fire
> agreement of the first Gulf war if that is what you are talking about. You
> also fail to take into account the Muslim jihadists have been at war with
> the US for at least the last 20+ years, thru several administrations.
No, the war was not a last resort and the U.S. wanted revenge for 911 and
it didn't matter who the U.S. took revenge on, and the warmongers were
unhappy with the way the last war against Iraq ended.
>
>>Over 4 million innocent Iraq people have become refugees, 2 million of
>>them left their country, all because the arrogant bully U.S. started the
>>war.
>
>
> See above, the US didn't start the war ... there was a cease fire from the
> first Gulf war. Does the govt of Iraq share any of the blame for the 2
> million refugees or is it only the US's fault?
Only U.S.
>
>>I wonder why you think speaking up for these innocent Iraq people is
>>wrong.
>
>
> Speaking up for innocent people isn't wrong, but to say the US is there to
> 'execute' innocent people is wrong also ... Saddam had no problem with
> killing his own people ... who spoke up for them? The US has probably the
> most stringent rules of engagement of any military in history at the cost of
> US lives. In war there are always mistakes, but I'm not trying to excuse
> them.
The result speaks for itself.
;-)
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
> .
>
>>> I'm not justifying it, I'm just telling it like it is.
>>
>>You are blowing it off...minimizing it...here is what you said that I agree with
>>"this only makes it less likely anyone will listen to the very real problems".
>
>
> No, I'm telling you that crappy things happen in crappy
> situations.
No, you are *emphasizing* that shit happens...we all know shit happens and
don't need it emphasized. You are making excuses, as this Blackwater
massacre is not just shit happening.
>
>
>>That's what you are doing, making it less likely that anyone will listen
>>to the very real problems...the problem of *unaccountable* private
>>mercenary U.S. armies like Blackwater.
>
>
> No, I'm telling you crappy things happen in crappy situations.
>
>
>> Train
>>
>>
>>>people to kill, put them in a situation where others are trying to
>>>kill them, and the chances of bad things happening are pretty good. If
>>>you've never been there, you really don't know how it is because there
>>>is no comparable situation in civilian life. That's not saying you're
>>>not entitled to your opinion, but it's not a black and white situation
>>>like you seem to believe.
>>
>>No, it is black and white: follow our laws and don't make excuses for
>>going "over the line".
>
>
> The line is gray. If you are afraid for your life, you have more
> "legal" options available.
>
> Private U.S. military, like Blackwater, are created
>
>>specifically so that they do not have to be held accountable, not follow
>>our laws. It most certainly is black and white.
>
>
> That's not why they were created. That does seem to have been an
> unfortunate byproduct.
That is *exactly* why they are sanctioned by the U.S. and allowed to flourish.
If you truly believe "unfortunate byproduct" then you should be strongly
in favor of shutting them down.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>>--
>>>>Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
>>>>no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
>>
>>> And when you're scared, you just might do things you wouldn't do
>>>otherwise. And when you're holding an automatic weapon, grenades, etc,
>>>you just might do a bit of damage.
>>
>>No, this is not referencing an in-the-heat-of-battle situation; it is
>>a calm beforehand thinking about and decision of the morality of this war.
>
>
> The "incident" was nothing of the sort unless you're one of those
My signature line about "individual responsibility" was not about any one incident.
> who believe they just decided one day to blow away a few Iraqis. I'm
> one of those who think they got in a crappy situation and over-
> reacted....but neither of us was there.
>
>
>>
>>
>>>>definition:
>>>> murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO EXCEPTIONS.-
>>
>>> Well, you added the NO EXCEPTIONS. Murder is subjective. That's
>>>also the reality.
>>
>>Yes, NO EXCEPTIONS is correct. You appear to want an exception for U.S. military and *only* U.S. military.
>
>
> Where do you get that? I'd think the same way no matter what the
> nationalities involved.
Then why are you making a big deal of NO EXCEPTIONS...what is your motive?
>
>
>>And yes guilt determination is subjective (as it is for every other crime).
>>
>>You're really trying hard to justify "excesses"...to minimize them...to minimize murder.
>
>
> No, I'm stating what is blindingly obvious to anyone who has
> been in a combat situation or can empathise with those who have been
> there.
Yes, most everyone understands that shit happens, but you are doing
more...you are *emphasizing* what is "blindingly obvious".
You appear to want the U.S. Blackwater military cleared of this massacre because
well...shit happens...and no one in the U.S. should be jailed for this
kind of shit happening...eh?
--
Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
definition:
Joe Irvin
> Joe Irvin wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote in message
>> news:h9ednTZ6R6QIFvnW...@supernews.com...
>>
>>>Ordie55 wrote:
>>>
>>>>I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
>>>>innocent people killed by our enemies there?
>>>
>>>This 9 year old boy executed by U.S. military is not my enemy.
>>
>>
>> Dr Quin, don't you think using the words 'executed by the US military'
>> are a little strong? Do you think they went there with the intention of
>> 'executing' that kid? ... do you believe in the fog of war ... mistakes
>> or errors?
>
> Yes, they went there with the intention of blowing away anyone who
> looked suspicious, knowing full well they could get away with it as
> people make excuses about "the fog of war" for *every* such massacre.
I'm not trying to make an excuse ... since time and wars began there have
been colossal mistakes in war. You seem to know for a fact that "they went
there with the intention of blowing away anyone who looked suspicious ..."
How do you know this for a fact? Why have an investigation if it is known
fact of this was the intention?
>>>Son, I don't post about "our" enemies because "our" enemies don't pretend
>>>to represent me as the U.S. government does, and people defending their
>>>country from an invading army are not my enemy.
>>>
>>>Over 1 million innocent Iraq people have been killed who would still
>>>be alive if the U.S. had not started the war.
>>
>>
>> The US didn't start the war ... Iraq failed to live up to the cease fire
>> agreement of the first Gulf war if that is what you are talking about.
>> You also fail to take into account the Muslim jihadists have been at war
>> with the US for at least the last 20+ years, thru several
>> administrations.
>
> No, the war was not a last resort and the U.S. wanted revenge for 911 and
> it didn't matter who the U.S. took revenge on, and the warmongers were
> unhappy with the way the last war against Iraq ended.
It it was a 'revenge' why did the US wait 12+ years after the first Gulf war
to seek it? ... I think that shows patience rather than a rush for revenge
.... Saddam was ignoring the cease fire agreement, firing on coalition
aircraft in the no-fly zones, paying families that had suicide bombers etc;
what should the US/coalition forces have done? ... accept the fact that
eventually US/coalition foces troops would be killed, but just do nothing?
What would you have done?
>>>Over 4 million innocent Iraq people have become refugees, 2 million of
>>>them left their country, all because the arrogant bully U.S. started the
>>>war.
>>
>>
>> See above, the US didn't start the war ... there was a cease fire from
>> the first Gulf war. Does the govt of Iraq share any of the blame for the
>> 2 million refugees or is it only the US's fault?
>
> Only U.S.
Then you aren't interested in any other cause that doesn't lead to it being
the fault of the US, true? ... Why?
>>>I wonder why you think speaking up for these innocent Iraq people is
>>>wrong.
>>
>>
>> Speaking up for innocent people isn't wrong, but to say the US is there
>> to 'execute' innocent people is wrong also ... Saddam had no problem with
>> killing his own people ... who spoke up for them? The US has probably
>> the most stringent rules of engagement of any military in history at the
>> cost of US lives. In war there are always mistakes, but I'm not trying
>> to excuse them.
>
> The result speaks for itself.
> ;-)
Of which may indicate that it was a mistake. The US military and their
contractors were getting killed every day in Iraq. Do you think you could
make the perfect decision every time under these conditions?
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
>
> I'm not trying to make an excuse ... since time and wars began there have
> been colossal mistakes in war.
This U.S. Blackwater military massacre was not a mistake; at best it is
negligent for us to allow it to happen by always excusing it with "shit happens".
As an analogy, I doubt we would condone New York City police blasting away just
because they thought someone looked suspicious, killing 20 innocent people in
the process. Heads would roll. We would not say "oh well, shit happens".
Ordie55
I did not write that crap! Our Resident Racist/America Hater did!
Unlike his Non-Vet brain, I do know they are not the US Military.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
Son, this is why I rarely respond to your crap...you have a pea-brain...
you can't think for yourself.
Why don't you go read my response as to why Blackwater certainly is U.S. military.
and please keep your pea-brain out of my threads, thank you
;-)
Ordie55 wrote:
deem...@aol.com
wrote:
> deemsb...@aol.com wrote:
> > .
>
> >>> I'm not justifying it, I'm just telling it like it is.
>
> >>You are blowing it off...minimizing it...here is what you said that I agree with
> >>"this only makes it less likely anyone will listen to the very real problems".
>
> > No, I'm telling you that crappy things happen in crappy
> > situations.
>
> No, you are *emphasizing* that shit happens...we all know shit happens and
> don't need it emphasized. You are making excuses, as this Blackwater
> massacre is not just shit happening.
>
No more so than you seem to be emphasizing this one instance and
trying to make a broader statement with it.
>
> > That's not why they were created. That does seem to have been an
> > unfortunate byproduct.
>
> That is *exactly* why they are sanctioned by the U.S. and allowed to flourish.
No, they were created to do the jobs the military didn't want to
do....not to mention making lots of money for some well-connected
people (which was in all likelihood reason #1)
>
> If you truly believe "unfortunate byproduct" then you should be strongly
> in favor of shutting them down.
Works for me. I'd thought they had shut down a couple years ago,
but they popped up like an unwelcome fungus in Pakistan. (The reason I
thought this was a couple guys my son served with joined them and
their checks started bouncing....I thought it was kinda short-sighted
to stiff guys with guns and explosives, but that's just me)
>
> > The "incident" was nothing of the sort unless you're one of those
>
> My signature line about "individual responsibility" was not about any one incident.
>
>
>
>
> > Where do you get that? I'd think the same way no matter what the
> > nationalities involved.
>
> Then why are you making a big deal of NO EXCEPTIONS...what is your motive?
Because there are exceptions according to circumstances. Shit,
our whole legal system revolves around precedent and the exceptions
which crop up.
>
> > No, I'm stating what is blindingly obvious to anyone who has
> > been in a combat situation or can empathise with those who have been
> > there.
>
> Yes, most everyone understands that shit happens, but you are doing
> more...you are *emphasizing* what is "blindingly obvious".
Because you don't seem to see that.
>
> You appear to want the U.S. Blackwater military cleared of this massacre because
> well...shit happens...and no one in the U.S. should be jailed for this
> kind of shit happening...eh?
No, all I said was I didn't think they could be
convicted....about the only way would be for one or more of them to
roll over on the others. Otherwise, it's "he said, she said" which is
enough for reasonable doubt. That's why I said civil options were more
likely to succeed because the burden of proof isn't as high.
rlspamsump
My apologies to you, that was sloppy of me
rlspamsump
wrote:
>
> Blackwater is a PMC, Private Military Company...it is military and it is
> U.S., therefore it is a U.S. military, and *sanctioned* by the U.S. government,
> operating with approval of and on behalf of the U.S. government.
>
> Branch name? ...how about Private Unaccountable Mercenary Branch?
>
I don't really give a rat's ass about you and your politics, but when
you write the things like this that you do, you just sound like an
absolute fool. You can certainly have your opinions, but you do not
have to spin lies to express them.
Ian B MacLure
news:3ac3a7ef-ac32-4c24...@k2g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
[snip]
> It was so much better when Saddam Hussein's security forces were doing
> the accidental killing.
> Here is a fact: put young men with high velocity automatic weapons in
> situations where non uniformed people are trying to kill them then the
Errrrmmmm, wasn't this the incident where some of the hostiles were
noted to be wearing Iraqi Police uniforms?
IBM
Ian B MacLure
news:1a9d9660-e007-4b0e...@b36g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
Well in this case "execution style" is a flat out lie.
I rather doubt that someone put a gun to the "child"'s head
and pulled the trigger which is clearly the inference idiots
reading the idiot posting were supposed to make. Vinny is a
idjit.
IBM
Ordie55
Thanks & I appreciate that.
This person is a total Fraud, a Racist & America Hater. I want no
association with his sickness.
He is the epitome of a Troll, and he relishes in it as is evident by
his postings. He plays semantics to try to make things even worse and
when called on it could care less. Why would he, when after all, it is
what he does.
Ian B MacLure
> Ordie55 wrote:
>>
>> I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
>> innocent people killed by our enemies there?
>
> This 9 year old boy executed by U.S. military is not my enemy.
Well it wasn't the US military. It was Blackwater and in any
case it wasn't an "execution". If any crime was committed it
was by the attackers who deliberately involved civilians in
their attack. That was a no-no of veru high order.
> Son, I don't post about "our" enemies because "our" enemies don't
> pretend to represent me as the U.S. government does, and people
> defending their country from an invading army are not my enemy.
Well, viewed rom "our" perspective you are the enemy.
> Over 1 million innocent Iraq people have been killed who would still
> be alive if the U.S. had not started the war.
Not even close ya POS.
> Over 4 million innocent Iraq people have become refugees, 2 million of
> them left their country, all because the arrogant bully U.S. started
> the war.
Innocnet? Maybe. Maybe not. A goodly number of them were Baathists
whose conduct wouldn't bear close scrutiny in the new Iraq.
> I wonder why you think speaking up for these innocent Iraq people is
> wrong.
They aren't all innocent and yer a idjit.
IBM
Ian B MacLure
[snip]
> Thank you, I stand corrected, I thought this was new information on
> this massacre; it was not in-the-head execution style.
The time and place of the attack was not determined by Blackwater.
The "insurgents" did that and deliberately chose to do so in a
way that put large numbers of civilians at risk. That sort of thing
has criminal consequences if the perpetrators are caught.
> definition:
> massacre - the unnecessary, indiscriminate killing of a large number
> of human beings
And who initiatd the killing? Wasn't Blackwater. Maybe you thought
nobody had noticed.
IBM
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>>Thank you, I stand corrected, I thought this was new information on
>>this massacre; it was not in-the-head execution style.
>
>
> The time and place of the attack was not determined by Blackwater.
Son, there was no attack.
> The "insurgents" did that and deliberately chose to do so in a
> way that put large numbers of civilians at risk.
Son, there were no insurgents, except after-the-fact concoctions by Blackwater.
JEREMY SCHAHILL: Dickinson and Mauney have gathered volumes of
evidence and interviewed scores of eyewitnesses. Perhaps the
greatest piece of evidence comes from one of the men they are
suing, Jeremy Ridgeway, a turret gunner on the Raven 23 team that
day pled guilty to killing an unarmed civilian. Mauney points to
Ridgeway�s own sworn statement.
GARY MAUNEY: He said Raven 23 was not supposed to be there, and
what they did was not justified by any provocation whatsoever. This
is not some lawyer making hyperbolic argument. This is Mr. Ridgeway
was who was there, working for Blackwater at the time.
JEREMY SCHAHILL: In addition to Jeremy Ridgeway�s statement,
Mauney and Dickinson plan to introduce statements made by other
Blackwater guards in the square that day, who said they were
horrified at what their colleagues did, saying that they shot at
civilians for nothing and for no reason. With the Justice
Department�s criminal case against Blackwater very much up in the
air, Mohammed Kinani could well be the one man left standing
between Blackwater and total impunity for the Nissour Square
massacre. [and total impunity, period]
the transcript:
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/29/exclusiveblackwaters_youngest_victim_father_of_9
the District Court FACTUAL PROFFER IN SUPPORT OF GUILTY PLEA
http://www.justice.gov/opa/documents/us-v-ridgeway.pdf
That sort of thing
> has criminal consequences if the perpetrators are caught.
>
>
>>definition:
>> massacre - the unnecessary, indiscriminate killing of a large number
>> of human beings
>
>
> And who initiatd the killing? Wasn't Blackwater. Maybe you thought
> nobody had noticed.
No, son, the U.S. military (Blackwater branch) initiated the killing.
You're a moron.
;-)
>
> IBM
Matt Wiser
"rlspamsump" <rlspa...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c2b49686-8af2-41c0...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
The phony PhD from a nonexistent university has never been known for being
accurate. And when his own claim is contradicted by the story he links
to....well, that settles a lot right there.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
> On Jan 30, 5:56 pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>deemsb...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>>>.
>>
>>>>> I'm not justifying it, I'm just telling it like it is.
>>
>>>>You are blowing it off...minimizing it...here is what you said that I agree with
>>>>"this only makes it less likely anyone will listen to the very real problems".
>>
>>> No, I'm telling you that crappy things happen in crappy
>>>situations.
>>
>>No, you are *emphasizing* that shit happens...we all know shit happens and
>>don't need it emphasized. You are making excuses, as this Blackwater
>>massacre is not just shit happening.
>>
>
>
> No more so than you seem to be emphasizing this one instance and
> trying to make a broader statement with it.
No, there are many "instances", and always brushed off with "oh well, shit happens".
The U.S. military went into Iraq with the specific intention of behaving like
a hot knife through butter, to kill with impunity to get it over quickly, and
damn the innocent people who get in their way. The "theory" portrayed is that
fewer people get killed so the U.S. military is doing the kind thing to their victims.
>
>
>
>>> That's not why they were created. That does seem to have been an
>>>unfortunate byproduct.
>>
>>That is *exactly* why they are sanctioned by the U.S. and allowed to flourish.
>
>
> No, they were created to do the jobs the military didn't want to
> do.
How do you rationalize we pay *more* money for our private militaries than we pay for
our regular military, *except* that the private is not held accountable?
And since when does our military get to pick and choose which *necessary* military
jobs it wants to not do? The jobs that ex-military personnel, Blackwater, are eager to do.
Again, you appear to be making excuses...the sort that allows continued murder by our military.
...not to mention making lots of money for some well-connected
> people (which was in all likelihood reason #1)
>
>
>>If you truly believe "unfortunate byproduct" then you should be strongly
>>in favor of shutting them down.
>
>
> Works for me.
It may "work for you", but you certainly don't project that, except now as
this afterthought...as an apologist...an excuser.
Can you point to your previous postings advocating the U.S. private militaries be
shut down?
I'd thought they had shut down a couple years ago,
> but they popped up like an unwelcome fungus in Pakistan. (The reason I
> thought this was a couple guys my son served with joined them and
> their checks started bouncing....I thought it was kinda short-sighted
> to stiff guys with guns and explosives, but that's just me)
>
>
>>> The "incident" was nothing of the sort unless you're one of those
>>
>>My signature line about "individual responsibility" was not about any one incident.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Where do you get that? I'd think the same way no matter what the
>>>nationalities involved.
>>
>>Then why are you making a big deal of NO EXCEPTIONS...what is your motive?
>
>
> Because there are exceptions according to circumstances. Shit,
> our whole legal system revolves around precedent and the exceptions
> which crop up.
The exceptions are justifications...when unjustified it is murder, NO EXCEPTIONS.
Maybe you need some *specific*, non-U.S. military, examples, eh?
>
>
>>> No, I'm stating what is blindingly obvious to anyone who has
>>>been in a combat situation or can empathise with those who have been
>>>there.
>>
>>Yes, most everyone understands that shit happens, but you are doing
>>more...you are *emphasizing* what is "blindingly obvious".
>
>
> Because you don't seem to see that.
>
>
>>You appear to want the U.S. Blackwater military cleared of this massacre because
>>well...shit happens...and no one in the U.S. should be jailed for this
>>kind of shit happening...eh?
>
>
> No, all I said was I didn't think they could be
> convicted.
No, that is not all you said.
...about the only way would be for one or more of them to
> roll over on the others. Otherwise, it's "he said, she said" which is
> enough for reasonable doubt. That's why I said civil options were more
> likely to succeed because the burden of proof isn't as high.
It's not about burden of proof...it's about rigging the system.
;-)
Ian B MacLure
> Ian B MacLure wrote:
>
>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>Thank you, I stand corrected, I thought this was new information on
>>>this massacre; it was not in-the-head execution style.
>>
>>
>> The time and place of the attack was not determined by
>> Blackwater.
>
> Son, there was no attack.
You lying sack of shit!
>> The "insurgents" did that and deliberately chose to do so in
>> a way that put large numbers of civilians at risk.
>
> Son, there were no insurgents, except after-the-fact concoctions by
> Blackwater.
Prevaricating heap of excrement!
> JEREMY SCHAHILL: Dickinson and Mauney have gathered volumes of
> evidence and interviewed scores of eyewitnesses. Perhaps the
> greatest piece of evidence comes from one of the men they are
> suing, Jeremy Ridgeway, a turret gunner on the Raven 23 team that
> day pled guilty to killing an unarmed civilian. Mauney points to
> Ridgeway�s own sworn statement.
Wouldn't be the first time somebody pled to something they
didn't actually do. The forensic evidence from the scene doesn't
allow any determination of exactly who killed whom. It does however
show there was an attack.
[snip]
> No, son, the U.S. military (Blackwater branch) initiated the killing.
Festering pile of rat feces! Blackwater was contracted to the State
Dept not DOD. Which incidentally means they aren't subject to DOD
jurisdiction or DOJ prosecution.
> You're a moron.
Yer still a idjit. Calling you a cretin would be unfair to the
congenitally defective.
IBM
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
> On Jan 30, 5:14 pm, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Blackwater is a PMC, Private Military Company...it is military and it is
>>U.S., therefore it is a U.S. military, and *sanctioned* by the U.S.
>
> government,
>
>>operating with approval of and on behalf of the U.S. government.
>>
>>Branch name? ...how about Private Unaccountable Mercenary Branch?
>>
>
>
> I don't really give a rat's ass about you and your politics, but
he he he...son, you can't get past that "sanctioned" part, eh?
;-)
when
> you write the things like this that you do, you just sound like an
> absolute fool. You can certainly have your opinions, but you do not
> have to spin lies to express them.
--
deem...@aol.com
> > No more so than you seem to be emphasizing this one instance and
> > trying to make a broader statement with it.
>
> No, there are many "instances", and always brushed off with "oh well, shit happens".
Because "shit" does happen? Do you realize that the battlefield
survival rate of those trying to surrender is about 50%? I guess all
those are murders, too? (Technically, you are right in many cases, but
you'll never see a conviction)
>
> The U.S. military went into Iraq with the specific intention of behaving like
> a hot knife through butter, to kill with impunity to get it over quickly, and
> damn the innocent people who get in their way. The "theory" portrayed is that
> fewer people get killed so the U.S. military is doing the kind thing to their victims.
Oh, bullshit. We went in with very restrictive ROE....yes, there
is collateral damage, but that is war. It's not an excuse, it's
reality.
> > No, they were created to do the jobs the military didn't want to
> > do.
>
> How do you rationalize we pay *more* money for our private militaries than we pay for
> our regular military, *except* that the private is not held accountable?
Because those in charge decided to farm out certain jobs. The
military was stretched thin and this, on paper at least, was supposed
to help.
>
> And since when does our military get to pick and choose which *necessary* military
> jobs it wants to not do? The jobs that ex-military personnel, Blackwater, are eager to do.
My understanding was Blackwater wasn't popular with most of the
military...especially those who had to serve alongside them. The
decisions were made at a higher level.
>
> Again, you appear to be making excuses...the sort that allows continued murder by our military.
See, you're equating the military with Blackwater. They're not the
same. Part of the military's objection to Blackwater was it formed a
separate armed force which the military did not control.
>
> It may "work for you", but you certainly don't project that, except now as
> this afterthought...as an apologist...an excuser.
>
> Can you point to your previous postings advocating the U.S. private militaries be
> shut down?
Has anyone asked? I don't post every thought I have.
> > Because there are exceptions according to circumstances. Shit,
> > our whole legal system revolves around precedent and the exceptions
> > which crop up.
>
> The exceptions are justifications...when unjustified it is murder, NO EXCEPTIONS.
>
> Maybe you need some *specific*, non-U.S. military, examples, eh?
It happens all the time. The Germans blew away from civilians in
Afghanistan not too long ago. It was found to be justifiable under
their ROE.
>
> > No, all I said was I didn't think they could be
> > convicted.
>
> No, that is not all you said.
I made that very point. I'm sorry if you missed it.
>
> ...about the only way would be for one or more of them to
>
> > roll over on the others. Otherwise, it's "he said, she said" which is
> > enough for reasonable doubt. That's why I said civil options were more
> > likely to succeed because the burden of proof isn't as high.
>
> It's not about burden of proof...it's about rigging the system.
> ;-)
>
The whole system is rigged. Where have you been living?
Joe Irvin
> Joe Irvin wrote:
>>
>> I'm not trying to make an excuse ... since time and wars began there have
>> been colossal mistakes in war.
>
> This U.S. Blackwater military massacre was not a mistake; at best it is
> negligent for us to allow it to happen by always excusing it with "shit
> happens".
So if these contractors were put in a bad situation they are suppose to act
perfectly and not make any mistakes? You cannot assure me you wouldn't have
made the same mistakes. We don't even know what the circumstances were but
you are already drawing conclusions.
> As an analogy, I doubt we would condone New York City police blasting away
> just
> because they thought someone looked suspicious, killing 20 innocent people
> in
> the process. Heads would roll. We would not say "oh well, shit happens".
There is a difference between a criminal activity and war?
> Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions
> are moral, and
> no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
I agree, but the Muslim jihadist have used women and children in the past to
kill Americans. This very fact can change how men act in a bad situation
react. If you were in a situation where women and children had been used to
kill Americans would you ignore all the women and children and just
concentrate on the men who attacking.
>
> definition:
> murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO
> EXCEPTIONS.
But that is what we don't know ... no one but you knows for sure if it was
'unjustifiable and intentional killing.'
David E. Powell
> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu> wrote in messagenews:YqudnS5cacGdV_nW...@supernews.com...
SNIP
> I agree, but the Muslim jihadist have used women and children in the past to
> kill Americans. This very fact can change how men act in a bad situation
> react. If you were in a situation where women and children had been used to
> kill Americans would you ignore all the women and children and just
> concentrate on the men who attacking.
I would suggest the OP read "Black Hawk Down" for additional info on
how something like this can go down. The behavior of the hostiles
there towards civilians is quite eye opening.
> > definition:
> > murder - the unjustifiable and intentional killing of people, NO
> > EXCEPTIONS.
>
> But that is what we don't know ... no one but you knows for sure if it was
> 'unjustifiable and intentional killing.'
If civilian casualties are seen as an advantage by the other side,
doesn't it behoove them to try to start fights in areas full of
civilians? Assuming Al Quaeda in Iraq cares about Iraqi civilians is
hard to do when one looks at their record or that of their comrades in
Afghanistan.
Of course I figure the OP knows this and is either out to get a cheap
rise or serve some personal self loathing of theirs. Either way they
are best killfiled. The other possibility, of course, is that they are
a super-secret "war hawk" operative trying to make the other side of
the argument look bad. If that's the real purpose it's a heck of a
trick.
Chi-Town Commie
>"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote in
>news:MtSdnXyJt68us_jW...@supernews.com:
>
>> Ian B MacLure wrote:
>>
>>> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." wrote:
>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>Thank you, I stand corrected, I thought this was new information on
>>>>this massacre; it was not in-the-head execution style.
>>>
>>>
>>> The time and place of the attack was not determined by
>>> Blackwater.
>>
>> Son, there was no attack.
>
> You lying sack of shit!
>
The Doctor of Janitors doesn't realize that the Blackwater squad had
their day in court and found not guilty by the judge presiding over
their case. Eric Holder's attorneys are appealing the judges decision.
You see, the Doctor of Janitors hates America with the exception of
the American invention of Tidy Bowl.
<[ Kool Aid Drinkers Unite! ]>
"All change means disorganization of the old
and organization of the new."
-Saul Alinsky, Barack Obama's Illegitimate Father
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote in message
> news:YqudnS5cacGdV_nW...@supernews.com...
>
>>Joe Irvin wrote:
>>
>>>I'm not trying to make an excuse ... since time and wars began there have
>>>been colossal mistakes in war.
>>
>>This U.S. Blackwater military massacre was not a mistake; at best it is
>>negligent for us to allow it to happen by always excusing it with "shit
>>happens".
>
>
> So if these contractors were put in a bad situation they are suppose to act
> perfectly and not make any mistakes?
No one has said that, son. Think about it...use your brain...don't be a moron.
and have a nice day
;-)
Joe Irvin
You implied that ... In the fire fight a kid was killed it is automatically
Blackwater's fault for 'murderin' the kid. You automatically rule out it
being an accident. How do you factually know that?
You also didn't address the issue of Muslim women and children being used to
kill Americans ... is it wise to ignore them?
> and have a nice day
> ;-)
Thank you, you do the same.
Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D.
> "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote in message
> news:1smdnUSjBY9DoPvW...@supernews.com...
>
>>Joe Irvin wrote:
>>
>>>"Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <dr...@coldine.edu> wrote in message
>>>news:YqudnS5cacGdV_nW...@supernews.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Joe Irvin wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I'm not trying to make an excuse ... since time and wars began there
>>>>>have been colossal mistakes in war.
>>>>
>>>>This U.S. Blackwater military massacre was not a mistake; at best it is
>>>>negligent for us to allow it to happen by always excusing it with "shit
>>>>happens".
>>>
>>>
>>>So if these contractors were put in a bad situation they are suppose to
>>>act perfectly and not make any mistakes?
>>
>>No one has said that, son. Think about it...use your brain...don't be a
>>moron.
>
>
> You implied that .
I did no such thing, son.
.. In the fire fight a kid was killed it is automatically
> Blackwater's fault for 'murderin' the kid. You automatically rule out it
> being an accident. How do you factually know that?
Son, see the documents I provided. Now go *actually* read them, moron.
;-)
>
> You also didn't address the issue of Muslim women and children being used to
> kill Americans ... is it wise to ignore them?
>
>
>>and have a nice day
>>;-)
>
>
> Thank you, you do the same.
>
>
--
Each person has an individual responsibility to determine if his actions are moral, and
no government or army may ever take that responsibility away.
definition:
Ben
> Always Trolling!!!
>
> I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
> innocent people killed by our enemies there?
>
> God Bless Our Private Contractors!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NseSuEDSthE
>
Shooting people execution style is always wrong regardless of who they
are, captured enemy soldiers or civilians. These contractors have not
learned the lessons from My Lai and its serious damage to U.S.
reputation.
> On Jan 30, 6:27 am, "Dr. Vincent Quin, Ph.D." <d...@coldine.edu>
deem...@aol.com
> On Jan 30, 12:09 pm, Ordie55 <ordi...@gmail.com> wrote:> Always Trolling!!!
>
> > I wonder why your not posting stories about the 10's of thousands of
> > innocent people killed by our enemies there?
> > Maybe it just does not fit your I HATE AMERICA agenda?
>
> > God Bless Our Private Contractors!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NseSuEDSthE
>
> Shooting people execution style is always wrong regardless of who they
> are, captured enemy soldiers or civilians. These contractors have not
> learned the lessons from My Lai and its serious damage to U.S.
> reputation.
>
Who shot anyone "execution style"?