$$ for USS MASSACHUSETTS & USS SALEM
Andrew C. Toppan
After a lot of talk, it's finally official - $10 million to overhaul the
museum ship MASSACHUSETTS (BB 59) and $2 million for SALEM (CA 139).
The legislation enacted by the Mass. state gov't reads as follows:
For the preservation of historical naval vessels entrusted to the
people of the commonwealth and memorializing the contributions of
Massachusetts veterans; provided, that of the amount appropriated
herein, up to $10,000,000 shall be expended for the one-time costs of
repair, renovation and overhaul of the USS Massachusetts, which is
under the care and custody of the USS Massachusetts Memorial Committee,
Inc. and is berthed in the Battleship Massachusetts World War II
memorial located at Battleship Cove in the port of Fall River;
provided, however, that said Committee shall without charge, admit
organized school groups for a period of five years while said vessel is
berthed in Battleship Cove; provided, further, that all such repairs,
renovations, and overhauling shall be performed within the
commonwealth; provided, further, that upon completion of any such
repairs, renovations and overhauling, said vessel shall immediately
return to the Battleship Cove, which shall serve as the official home
port of the vessel; provided, further, that any unexpended balance of
said $10,000,000 shall be made available for any one time repairs of
other naval vessels berthed in said cove; provided, further, that not
more than $2,050,000 of said amount shall be expended for the
rehabilitation and preservation of the USS Salem berthed in the Fore
River, including, but not limited to, replacement of deteriorated deck
sections, replacement of boiler condensate hose system, rehabilitation
of gangways, repair and painting of the superstructure, so-called,
repair and painting of the hull and boot topping, so-called, and repair
of exterior deck lighting systems.
.................................................$12,050,000
--
Andrew Toppan --- acto...@gwi.net --- "I speak only for myself"
=====>NEW ADDRESS ==> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <== NEW ADDRESS <======
US Naval & Shipbuilding Museum/USS Salem Online - http://www.uss-salem.org/
Naval History, World Navies Today, Photo Features, Military FAQs, and more
SeaPhoto
Battleship Cove? I'd like to find out when BB-59 is scheduled to be put into
drydock.
TIA
Kurt Greiner
SeaPhoto Maritime Photography
Still the same old website:
http://members.aol.com/SeaPhoto/index.html
Kevin Langley
>Hey, great news for the museum ships! Does anyone have any connection with
>Battleship Cove? I'd like to find out when BB-59 is scheduled to be put into
>drydock.
>
>TIA
Wonder how many holes they'll find in her hull when they do?
I've heard rumors that there's about 150 holes in hull due to
rot...the biggest of which are supposedly big enough to drive a truck
through. Where would they drydock her anyway?
Kevin Langley
demo...@erols.com
bill...@hotmail.com
acto...@gwi.net (Andrew C. Toppan) wrote:
>
> After a lot of talk, it's finally official - $10 million to overhaul the
> museum ship MASSACHUSETTS (BB 59) and $2 million for SALEM (CA 139).
>
.........................................................................
Andrew, that's great!!! Is nice hearing some good news for a
change..........specially from politicians..... *G*...... Bill
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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Andrew C. Toppan
> Wonder how many holes they'll find in her hull when they do?
> I've heard rumors that there's about 150 holes in hull due to
> rot...the biggest of which are supposedly big enough to drive a truck
> through.
That rumor can only be described as absurd. I'm sure she does have some
holes - but she IS FLOATING. I was there in May, and I checked. There is
a single, distinct seaweed line on her hull, indicating that she does rise
and fall with the tides. This is in clear contrast to the stationary
piers, which have a thick layer of seaweed across the entire 9.5 foot
tidal range.
> Where would they drydock her anyway?
There's only one functional drydock in Massachusetts that's big enough -
Boston Ship Repair in South Boston. The facility is the former South
Annex of the Boston Navy Yard; the dock is/was Boston Navy Yard #3.
Before the Navy owned it, it was the Commonwealth Dock, owned by the
Commonwealth of MA.
Andrew C. Toppan
> Hey, great news for the museum ships! Does anyone have any connection with
> Battleship Cove? I'd like to find out when BB-59 is scheduled to be put into
> drydock.
I've got connections with Boston - I ought to be able to find out in
advance...
Dave Powell
with
>>Battleship Cove? I'd like to find out when BB-59 is scheduled to be put
into
>>drydock.
>>
>
> Wonder how many holes they'll find in her hull when they do?
>I've heard rumors that there's about 150 holes in hull due to
>rot...the biggest of which are supposedly big enough to drive a truck
Congratulations, Andrew!
Yeah.. I hope it isn't as bad as when they drydocked the Texas a few years
back, and had to use fiberglass to repair the hull, which had rusted down to
about a quarter inch in places, and in others it was said you could have
poked through with your finger. When moving it along the river it is in,
people feared a grounding of collision could sink the old vessel and block
the channel. She made it though. Hopefully the other old BB will too... they
built them tough, you know... and if she is currently floating despite such
problems, hopefully she'll make it to the fitter =s intact. They really
built those old ladies to last.
Hopefully the Salem is in better condition, due to her later retirement -
best of luck with her, Mr. Toppan.
David Powell
> Kevin Langley
> demo...@erols.com
>
Mckellar
I wrote a story for The Boston Globe a couple of years ago on the Mass -
she floats - doesn't leak and has about 15" of seaweed and crap on her
underside.According to the head of the museum, about a third of her rests
on the bottom at low tide.
Mark
In article <6r2aba$lv$4...@noc1.gwi.net>, acto...@gwi.net (Andrew C. Toppan)
wrote:
> Kevin Langley (demo...@nospam.erols.com) was seen to write:
> > Wonder how many holes they'll find in her hull when they do?
> > I've heard rumors that there's about 150 holes in hull due to
> > rot...the biggest of which are supposedly big enough to drive a truck
> > through.
>
> That rumor can only be described as absurd. I'm sure she does have some
> holes - but she IS FLOATING. I was there in May, and I checked. There is
> a single, distinct seaweed line on her hull, indicating that she does rise
> and fall with the tides. This is in clear contrast to the stationary
> piers, which have a thick layer of seaweed across the entire 9.5 foot
> tidal range.
>
> > Where would they drydock her anyway?
>
> There's only one functional drydock in Massachusetts that's big enough -
> Boston Ship Repair in South Boston. The facility is the former South
> Annex of the Boston Navy Yard; the dock is/was Boston Navy Yard #3.
> Before the Navy owned it, it was the Commonwealth Dock, owned by the
> Commonwealth of MA.
>
Andrew C. Toppan
> Hopefully the Salem is in better condition, due to her later retirement -
> best of luck with her, Mr. Toppan.
It's my understanding that the hull (of SALEM) is in near-perfect shape,
except for the peeling paint (cometics...). And she *definately* isn't
silted-in as MASSACHUSETTS might be. We had her underway (under tow) only
two years ago.
Andrew C. Toppan
> thought to mention it because I'd heard it from more than one source.
The rumors have been around for years - and no doubt there is some truth -
but I believe they have been overblown. I should also mention that all
the other craft there (other than those hauled ashore) are floating
properly, not sitting on the bottom.
> Will the $10million be used on just the Massachusetts, or can/will it
> be used on the other ships there as well?
Any surplus may be allocated as needed to other ships there.
> Cool. Can't wait till they put her in. I'm not too familiar
> with the drydock. Is it normally possible to get close enough to the
> dock to get pictures?
Yep. There's a big viewing platform at the inland end o' the dock; it's
high enough to see over the fence. There are also a number of other
potential photo spots that would require a bit more work. I've got some
good photos taken when QUEEN ELIZABETH II was getting emergency repairs in
the dock a few years ago...
Dave Powell
>There sure is a lotta love going around this newsgroup
lately...............
Hey! Welcome back man! Where you been?
David Powell
Kevin Langley
>That rumor can only be described as absurd. I'm sure she does have some
>holes - but she IS FLOATING. I was there in May, and I checked. There is
>a single, distinct seaweed line on her hull, indicating that she does rise
>and fall with the tides. This is in clear contrast to the stationary
>piers, which have a thick layer of seaweed across the entire 9.5 foot
>tidal range.
That's great that the rumors on that are false. I'd just
thought to mention it because I'd heard it from more than one source.
Will the $10million be used on just the Massachusetts, or can/will it
be used on the other ships there as well?
>> Where would they drydock her anyway?
>
>There's only one functional drydock in Massachusetts that's big enough -
>Boston Ship Repair in South Boston. The facility is the former South
>Annex of the Boston Navy Yard; the dock is/was Boston Navy Yard #3.
>Before the Navy owned it, it was the Commonwealth Dock, owned by the
>Commonwealth of MA.
Cool. Can't wait till they put her in. I'm not too familiar
with the drydock. Is it normally possible to get close enough to the
dock to get pictures?
Kevin Langley
demo...@erols.com
WLBBLW
bill...@hotmail.com
"Dave Powell" <david_po...@msn.com> wrote:
> Kevin Langley wrote in message <35d3de00...@news.erols.com>...
> >On 14 Aug 1998 03:46:16 GMT, seap...@aol.com (SeaPhoto) wrote:
> >
> >>Hey, great news for the museum ships! Does anyone have any connection
> with
> >>Battleship Cove? I'd like to find out when BB-59 is scheduled to be put
> into
> >>drydock.
> >>
> >>TIA
> >
Wonder what shape the North Carolina and Alabama are in? I haven't seen either
of them, are they maintained pretty well?
Warren Bumgarner
repairs to the USS North Carolina (BB55). Our legislature allocated
enough money back in 1995 to repaint her in camo colors for the 50th
anniversary of VJ day, but nothing has been allocated since.
The North Carolina is one of the best preserved memorials I have
visited. Granted, she's missing mechanical components (donated to the
Iowa, et al recommissioning during the Regan years) but she looks both
above and below decks like she could power up and pull out tomorrow.
The teak decks (provided for splinter protection according to
historical info-a reply to another thread) is in sad shape with cement
being used to replace rotted sections, and additional spaces below
decks could be opened is the funds were made available.
The BB55 memorial commission is trying to raise $4 million towards
this effort. As a first grader in 1959, I donated ice cream money for
several weeks and had a part in her initial purchase. I plan to send
them a check towards this additional refurb.
If any of you want to help out in this effort, I'll gladly post the
memorial commision's mailing address.
And if you're ever through Wilmington NC, take some time and walk
through her. Simply an amazing vessel.
Regards,
Warren
On Fri, 14 Aug 1998 18:06:57 GMT, bill...@hotmail.com wrote:
>In article <6r02p5$ivg$1...@noc1.gwi.net>,
> acto...@gwi.net (Andrew C. Toppan) wrote:
>>
>> After a lot of talk, it's finally official - $10 million to overhaul the
>> museum ship MASSACHUSETTS (BB 59) and $2 million for SALEM (CA 139).
>>
>
>.........................................................................
>
>Andrew, that's great!!! Is nice hearing some good news for a
>change..........specially from politicians..... *G*...... Bill
>
>-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
>http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
********************************************
Remove nospam from address to reply.
"Do or not do-there is no try."-Yoda
Andrew C. Toppan
> Wonder what shape the North Carolina and Alabama are in? I haven't seen either
> of them, are they maintained pretty well?
Generally, yes, although I wonder about their underwater condition. Also,
NORTH CAROLINA is badly in need of a re-decking...
WLBBLW
(Not so much talk about this problem with the Great Lakes vessels due to fresh
water)
-B
Andrew C. Toppan
> What seems to be the cause of all this rot? Salt water? Does it flow up river?
If you're talking about rot in wooden decking, salt water has nothing to
do with it. I'll be damned if I can figure how salt water would get onto
the deck of a museum ship....
Wooden decks rot for the same reason any wood rots - moisture. A bit of
rain, some nice puddles and permanently-wet spots...and you've got rot.
After 30+ years of little or no maintenance, you can end up with quite a
bit of it.
WLBBLW
>do with it. I'll be damned if I can figure how salt water would get onto
>the deck of a museum ship....
>
>Wooden decks rot for the same reason any wood rots - moisture. A bit of
>rain, some nice puddles and permanently-wet spots...and you've got rot.
>After 30+ years of little or no maintenance, you can end up with quite a
>bit of it.
>
>
Rot, ripe, raw = Rust, corrosion, holes in the STEEL hull. As if to say "Gee
that car is really rotten from so many winters on the salty roads."
Why does a ship moored up river from the ocean have a rusty hull?
em...@olypen.com
> > Wonder what shape the North Carolina and Alabama are in? I haven't seen either
> > of them, are they maintained pretty well?
>
> Generally, yes, although I wonder about their underwater condition. Also,
> NORTH CAROLINA is badly in need of a re-decking...
>
I visited the Alabama in, I believe, 1965 and it seems that I recall that
sand had been pumped in once she was in position so that she was no longer in
contact with the water. As hurricanes blow into that part of the country
periodically and shift shorelines around (among other things) I don't know if
that condition still pertains. Recent photographs should tell.
Michael
Dale Farmer
: To back up Andrews comments below.
: I wrote a story for The Boston Globe a couple of years ago on the Mass -
: she floats - doesn't leak and has about 15" of seaweed and crap on her
: underside.According to the head of the museum, about a third of her rests
: on the bottom at low tide.
: Mark
This discussion prompted me to go down to Fall River today and
visit. Something that is new there is a former East German missile
corvette. 1984 construction. SS-N-2 (demiled) missiles on display on
a loading crane. Interesting to walk around the other sides ship and
see what it looks like. Much more cramped and hard to get around on.
Not much in the way of damage control gear either.
Anyway. USS Massachusetts has opened up the number 2 turrent
magazine and powder rooms for tourists. Those were not open a few years
ago. There are 5-in and 40mm magazines open, and a 5-in turrent open
for visitors. Most every area open to tourists have been stripped of
everything removable. So talking on the sound-powered phones to other
people (something I remember doing as a child touring it) is no longer
possible, as the phones are missing or locked down. <sigh> Some areas
that used to be open are now closed, to keep whats left from being
stolen or destroyed. There is a lot of birdshit and rust on the weather
decks, and many, many coats of paint encrusting the rust. Patches of
damaged wooden deck have been replaced with concrete, although a few of
these patches have had plank patterns drawn in the surface before it
hardened. It needs a lot of chipping and painting, and a full time
anti-pigeon patrol. :-) I think I'll join the support group and
see about putting in some volunteer time.
--Dale
--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dale Farmer Dale at accessdotdigex.net Personal opinion. Sudbury, Mass.
"Free the ISO 9000!" --Nomi Burstein
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Andrew C. Toppan
Which ship(s) are you talking about? MASSACHUSETTS and SALEM, although
both moored in rivers, are only a stone's throw from the ocean. Both
float in tidal salt water.
Heck, I live 12 miles from the ocean, but the river here still has around
an 8 foot tidal range...
ran...@ix.netcom.com
>>If you're talking about rot in wooden decking, salt water has nothing to
>>do with it. I'll be damned if I can figure how salt water would get onto
>>the deck of a museum ship....
On the wooden MSOs we activated our countermeasures washdown
periodically to:
wash any fresh water rot inducing puddles over the side and,
to cool the decks, spaces below and the crew in the Persian Gulf.
The worst thing in a wooden ship is freshwater. The most likely space
to suffer rot was the compartment in which we had the freshwater
tanks. They were of Kmonel and didn't leak but sometimes the piping
or valves leaked.
We didn't have much rot at all on the hull but did replace a couple
thousand linear feet of sacrificial hull planks every DSRA that
suffered from biological distress. Salt water washdowns of the decks
in the States was necessary from time to time but one still ended up
wiping the icky salt residue off the vertical structures.
Was going to add to Andrew's comments but I suppose now it was a
rhetorical question.
regards,
random
bill...@hotmail.com
river?
>
> do with it. I'll be damned if I can figure how salt water would get onto
> the deck of a museum ship....
>
> rain, some nice puddles and permanently-wet spots...and you've got rot.
> After 30+ years of little or no maintenance, you can end up with quite a
> bit of it.
>
The National Geographic article on Constitution's most recent restoration said
the rotting in her had nothing to do with salt water, but rain water that had
leaked thru down into the bilges. Apparently salt water is LESS corrosive to
wood than fresh, at least according to this article.
Patrick Pemberton
bill...@hotmail.com said:
>The National Geographic article on Constitution's most recent restoration
said
>the rotting in her had nothing to do with salt water, but rain water that
had
>leaked thru down into the bilges. Apparently salt water is LESS corrosive
to
>wood than fresh, at least according to this article.
True. On the contrary, it's an excellent preservative according to NG. The
ideal is to keep the hull in the saltwater and above the waterline dry.
-Patrick
New WebPage! // "See, the pinned aviator here
http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~patrickp // doesn't even know what a MiG-29
Visit the USS TEXAS at // carries...but they can ask us that
http://navy.rotc.utexas.edu/texas // on a SWO board." - LTJG Juster
William Hamblen
<patr...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>True. On the contrary, it's an excellent preservative according to NG. The
>ideal is to keep the hull in the saltwater and above the waterline dry.
The worst corrosion occurs between the wind and the water where the
steel is alternately wet and dry.
Shipyards used to keep timber in brackish ponds (too fresh for sea
worms) where the timber would be preserved and wouldn't dry out.
Peter Skelton
>What seems to be the cause of all this rot? Salt water? Does it flow up river?
>(Not so much talk about this problem with the Great Lakes vessels due to fresh
>water)
Haida (in Lake Ontario at Toronto) is in serious need of hull repairs. The
following appeal came in a month or two ago.
Peter Skelton
============
Help Keep H.M.C.S. HAIDA Afloat!
Fifty-five years ago the Battle of the Atlantic came to a climax. The Royal
Canadian Navy played a leading role in this Battle. By the end of the war
the RCN provided the majority of escort ships in the North Atlantic and was
the fourth largest navy in the world.
The most famous of RCN ships in WWII -- H.M.C.S. HAIDA -- is the last of
her
noble breed, a Tribal class destroyer. Many of her sisters were lost in the
struggle, but HAIDA remains as a tribute to them all, still afloat on the
Toronto waterfront.
German bombs, shells and torpedoes failed to sink her, but now she faces
another peril -- age. A recent survey indicates that the condition of her
hull at the waterline has deteriorated so severely that extensive repairs
costing as much as five million dollars must be made within the next five
years if she is to be kept afloat.
This crisis has drawn the attention of Canadian media including newspaper
articles published early in May and television coverage on several Canadian
networks. A half-hour documentary is being produced about HAIDA for
Canada's
History Television network. They are interested in
interviewing as many people who served in HAIDA as possible.
The Remembering Project is proud to play what role we can in fighting to
save HAIDA. Regardless of who you are, you can help. Spread the word, make
a
donation (of any size) and invite others to do so. Donations should be made
out to:
Friends of H.M.C.S. HAIDA
P.O. Box 405
100-2 Bloor St. W.
Toronto, Ontario
M4W 3E2 CANADA
The Government of the Province of Ontario is responsible for the HAIDA
Museum. Urge them to finance this urgent and essential restoration work.
HAIDA no longer belongs to Canada alone. Her history belongs to everyone.
Let them know YOU believe in keeping this unique piece of history alive.
You can help by sending letters or emails to newspapers and to the
Legislative Assembly of Ontario addressed to any of the following:
- your local MPP;
- The Hon. Al Palladini, Minister of Economic Development, Trade and
Tourism
- The Hon. Michael Harris, Premier of Ontario
Help ensure that Canada's most famous warship is preserved for future
generations and that her stories live on. HISTORY REMEMBERED, VALOUR
PRESERVED.
Visit the H.M.C.S. HAIDA Naval Museum at Ontario Place, or via the internet
at http://www3.sympatico.ca/hrc/haida
For more information, to offer your encouragement, or to join the Friends
of
H.M.C.S. HAIDA, contact Carla Morse at the above address, or via:
Tel: (416) 314-9755
Fax: (416) 314-9878
Email: hnm...@planeteer.com
[duplicate being posted as RP News June 1998]
David Colwell
Remembering Project Founder
email: David Colwell <dcol...@idirect.com>
Please visit our Website on the Second World War at:
http://www.interlog.com/~lui/rp/welcome.html
Last major update: June 1, 1998
WLBBLW
-B
KMF
museum ship in a permanent dry-dock? The upper side would
still be exposed to the weather, but the hull would be clear
of salt water, so there would be no risk of her leaking,
with the damage caused by that.
Kevin
ANDREW BREEN
Yep. _Victory_ and _Great Britain_ (to name but two) are permanently
dry-docked (_very_ permanently in the case of _Victory_, as
her masts are stepped into the floor of the dry-dock, following
bomb damage in the last struggle, IIRC). _Trincomalee_ is dry-
docked at present, but I think she's to be refloated in a few
years.
_Trincomalee_ is well worth visiting for any student of early
19th century ship design, incidently. She seems to be a purely
transverse-framed ship (without the diagonals found in _Unicorn_
or _Constitution_) though there wasn't enough planking off
low down to be certain of this. She does, however, have the
elliptical stern characteristic of the late 1840s, which she
got in a refit. Nice ship, and the tours around her are very
good.
Incidently, if Gerry de Vries has the information on the
performance of the Capetown Blomfeld 18pdr to hand (I recall
it being mentioned in the group a while back) the people
restoring _Trincomalee_ would be very interested, as she's
"armed" with replicas of 18pdrs of similar vintage - copied
from a Carron gun of ~1808.
--
Andy Breen ~ Max-Planck Institut fur Aeronomie, Katlenburg-Lindau
breen-sleepysnail-helene-dot-mpae-dot-gwdg-dot-de
"The day Microsoft make something which doesn't suck is probably
the day they start making vacuum cleaners" (Ernst Jan Plugge)
Jerry Proc
>
> >What seems to be the cause of all this rot? Salt water? Does it flow up river?
> >(Not so much talk about this problem with the Great Lakes vessels due to fresh
> >water)
>
is only two years older than HMCS HAIDA which has spent two thirds of
her life so far in fresh water, yet SACKVILLE's hull is in relatively
good shape. The answer is simple: - Each year, SACKVILLE is drydocked
and maintenance is performed on the hull. Every 5 years, major hull
maintenance is performed.
HAIDA, on the otherhand, is landlocked at this time and has never had
any hull maintenance since the late 1960's. If regular dry-dock
maintenance could be made available along with the application of modern
anti-fouling paint, the hull would be in very good shape.
Yes, the waterline is the most susceptible area for corrosion but it can
also be prevented. It's strictly a financial issue. SACKVILLE, being
Canada's Naval Memorial has her maintenance ultimately funded by
taxpayers dollars. HAIDA being a naval museum must raise her own funds
for any major maintenance work.
-
Regards,
Jerry Proc (416) 350-1439
jp...@idirect.com
HMCS HAIDA Naval Museum
Andrew C. Toppan
> Question: would it be too expensive to put a large
> museum ship in a permanent dry-dock?
If you've got a spare drydock handy-by, it's no problem. But the cost of
_building_ a drydock for this purpose would be prohibitive.
WLBBLW
>> Question: would it be too expensive to put a large
>> museum ship in a permanent dry-dock?
>
>
Wouldn't that take away the point of it all ? A ship that can't float is like
a restaurant that can't serve hot food.
William J Bollinger
> Question: would it be too expensive to put a large
> museum ship in a permanent dry-dock?
wlb...@aol.com (WLBBLW) wrote:
>Wouldn't that take away the point of it all ? A ship that can't float is like
>a restaurant that can't serve hot food.
IMHO, on a limited basis, it could add to ship tours. The public
rarely, if ever, gets a chance to see a big ship from the underside.
The dry-docking is a part of a ship's life, and should be displayed
somewhere. Too bad about the a) cost, b) safety, c) maintenance
conciderations that make it unlikely.
Support the American Academy of Industry in their effort to save the aircraft carrier Cabot and the cruiser Des Moines.
For information contact <mjhe...@aol.com>
My address has been modified to avoid spam.
If you have something to say, lose the "A".
Paul J. Adam
<wlb...@aol.com> writes
>Wouldn't that take away the point of it all ? A ship that can't float is like
>a restaurant that can't serve hot food.
Tour HMS Victory and then say that :)
Seriously, do you cling to "she's gotta stay afloat!" or do you
concentrate on preserving the vessel? Sometimes the goals are
compatible, other times (such as Victory) they are not.
--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...
Paul J. Adam pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk
Dave Champney
<Pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <199808192301...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, WLBBLW
><wlb...@aol.com> writes
>>Wouldn't that take away the point of it all ? A ship that can't float is like
>>a restaurant that can't serve hot food.
>
>Tour HMS Victory and then say that :)
I did, 2 years ago and to my eyes the sight of all that concrete was
quite sad :(
>
>Seriously, do you cling to "she's gotta stay afloat!" or do you
>concentrate on preserving the vessel? Sometimes the goals are
>compatible, other times (such as Victory) they are not.
As a visitor (not someone who has to find the funds) I'd say surely
you keep them floating if at all possible, out of the water but
floatable if not.
Off hand you know the state of Victory down below?
--
Dave Champney
(Take out the obvious to respond by email)
Glenn Dowdy
Glenn Dowdy
KMF
ships in dry docks taken from underneath?
Kevin
Dave Champney
wrote:
>Dave Champney wrote:
>>
>> Off hand you know the state of Victory down below?
>>
>Well, not to get too personal, but thanks to Pfizer, victory is at hand.
>
>Glenn Dowdy
Hmmmm puzzled,I don't think that comment even parted my hair.
Andrew C. Toppan
> somewhere. Too bad about the a) cost, b) safety, c) maintenance
> conciderations that make it unlikely.
I doubt the tourists would like wearing buckets [hard hats] for the
drydock tour ;)
Andrew C. Toppan
> ships in dry docks taken from underneath?
Several photos taken under USS CONSTITUTION during her recent overhaul are
online at http://www.uss-salem.org/features/constitution/
In general, photos taken in a shipyard of any sort are relatively rare.
Between industrial security and goverment security, photography is not
often allowed in shipyards.
Jerry Proc
>
> Does anybody know where there is a page with pictures of
> ships in dry docks taken from underneath?
>
Hello Kevin,
I have two photos of HMCS Athabaskan III on the syncrolift. The URL is:
http://webhome.idirect.com/~jproc/cta/282adpho.html
--
ht...@tesser.com
acto...@gwi.net (Andrew C. Toppan) wrote:
> Several photos taken under USS CONSTITUTION during her recent overhaul are
> online at http://www.uss-salem.org/features/constitution/
>
> In general, photos taken in a shipyard of any sort are relatively rare.
> Between industrial security and goverment security, photography is not
> often allowed in shipyards.
>
Do you see any reason why the drydocking of a museum ship, (assuming it
happens in the first place) couldn't be promoted as a fund-raising event? I
did the best manual labor of my life on drydocks. There was something magical
about seeing an eighty foot crewboat getting lifted out of the water,
although I can't say the same about sandblasting under the keel blocks. I
would have paid to see the BB Texas come up.
In my mind the biggest issue would be safety, even with familiar ships we
screwed up once or twice. If any of the cables are set wrong at the moment
you lose floatation you've got real problems. There isn't exactly a reset
button at that point. It took major stones to stand there and try to slack a
one inch cable when it's tearing through deck railings. I imagine the Navy
knows how to do this better than we did.
In 1986 I was able to get some good photos of a destroyer in drydock from the
Casco Bay tourboat, anybody on the Island ferries got the same view everyday.
The Iowa class BB hitting the reef and the subsequent dynamite fest were
still a staple of the tour, as was the young captain doing a twenty foot swan
dive from the bridge at Harpswell.
Regards,
Dan Schoenherr
Jerry Proc
> I
> did the best manual labor of my life on drydocks. There was something magical
> about seeing an eighty foot crewboat getting lifted out of the water,
> although I can't say the same about sandblasting under the keel blocks.
Hi Dan,
You raise an interesting point. When a ship is in drydock for say a hull
cleaning and repaint and is being supported by keel blocks, how does the
area of the hull under the keel block treated? Would the keel blocks be
moved slightly fore or aft over a treated area in order to expose an
untreated area for maintenance?
--
Regards,
Jerry Proc
jp...@bellglobal.com
Andrew C. Toppan
> Do you see any reason why the drydocking of a museum ship, (assuming it
> happens in the first place) couldn't be promoted as a fund-raising event? I
Safety, insurance, risk of bad publicity if something goes wrong,
inconvenience of having hundreds of tourists hanging around the drydock.
It's my experience that tourists, museum ships, and any sort of
underway/tow/docking do not mix well.
> In 1986 I was able to get some good photos of a destroyer in drydock from the
> Casco Bay tourboat,
I'll bet it was a cruiser (TICO class), not a destroyer. BIW was building
TICOs at that time; the Portland dock is BIW's. There has been _some_ PSA
and ROH work there, including at least one DD, but not a whole lot.
> anybody on the Island ferries got the same view everyday.
But not for much longer...
Andrew C. Toppan
> You raise an interesting point. When a ship is in drydock for say a hull
> cleaning and repaint and is being supported by keel blocks, how does the
> area of the hull under the keel block treated? Would the keel blocks be
1) Ignore areas blocked by blocking.
2) Refloat the ship and move it a bit.
You can't just move a block that has 40,000 tons of ship sitting on it...
Kevin Langley
>Safety, insurance, risk of bad publicity if something goes wrong,
>inconvenience of having hundreds of tourists hanging around the drydock.
>It's my experience that tourists, museum ships, and any sort of
>underway/tow/docking do not mix well.
The time when Salem got underway from Black Falcon for her
July 4th cruise a few years ago springs to mind. I was about 2 decks
below the bridge on the starboard side and remember the Coast Guard
officer who was running that aspect scream at some line handlers to
get out of the way a second before the line snapped taught.
Kevin
Andrew C. Toppan
> The time when Salem got underway from Black Falcon for her
> July 4th cruise a few years ago springs to mind. I was about 2 decks
Yeah, I was there, running the aft line crew... (did you see a guy
running from here to there all the time, from tug to tug, carrying a
heaving line? That's me...)
> below the bridge on the starboard side and remember the Coast Guard
> officer who was running that aspect scream at some line handlers to
Coast Guard officer? I don't think we had any Coasties aboard, and
certainly not "running" _anything_. The entire ship's "crew" was made up
of museum volunteers - including the guys in "uniforms".
The incident you mentioned was the result of somebody forgetting how many
lines had been sent to the pier two days previously. Fortunately one of
our volunteers got to the "forgotten" lines before anything bad came of
it.
At least we didn't end up backwards like CASSIN YOUNG ;)
Kevin Langley
>Yeah, I was there, running the aft line crew... (did you see a guy
>running from here to there all the time, from tug to tug, carrying a
>heaving line? That's me...)
Hmmm...nope. I probably wouldn't have noticed. I was on
board at the time as an Ensign with the U.S. Naval Sea Cadet Corps.
>Coast Guard officer? I don't think we had any Coasties aboard, and
>certainly not "running" _anything_. The entire ship's "crew" was made up
>of museum volunteers - including the guys in "uniforms".
He may not have been "running" things, but there was a Coast
Guard Lieutenant up on the bridge wing who seemed to be doing some
sort of supervision of the line handling. From where I was standing,
it looked like that if hadn't yelled when he did, a couple of
line-handlers might have been injured or killed.
>The incident you mentioned was the result of somebody forgetting how many
>lines had been sent to the pier two days previously. Fortunately one of
>our volunteers got to the "forgotten" lines before anything bad came of
>it.
>At least we didn't end up backwards like CASSIN YOUNG ;)
True. ;) I'd noticed that at the time and wondered how she'd
wound up that way.
By the way, is Salem still looking for volunteers or not? I
handed in an "application" stating that I was interested in
volunteering about 6 weeks ago, and was told that someone would be in
touch with me, but I haven't heard a thing since.
Kevin Langley
Rick Giguere
Langley) wrote:
> He may not have been "running" things, but there was a Coast
>Guard Lieutenant up on the bridge wing who seemed to be doing some
>sort of supervision of the line handling. From where I was standing,
>it looked like that if hadn't yelled when he did, a couple of
>line-handlers might have been injured or killed.
>
>>The incident you mentioned was the result of somebody forgetting how many
>>lines had been sent to the pier two days previously. Fortunately one of
>>our volunteers got to the "forgotten" lines before anything bad came of
>>it.
>
The docking pilot we had seemed to experience a case of amnesia
whenever it came to remembering where he had lines he was using for
springs.
He did the same thing when we left Quincy - and there someone DID get
hurt. Fortunately, it was only a burn and some bruising from the
line, but it could have been a LOT worse.
The harbor pilot was great, but the docking pilot ... sheesh!
Andrew C. Toppan
> wound up that way.
I think she got sideways to the channel while waiting for us to back out,
the wind caught her, and...
> By the way, is Salem still looking for volunteers or not? I
I would assume so, baring some sort of catastrophe of which I am not
aware. I'll see what's up..
William Schnakenberg
August 8th, 1998 and stepped on her deck for the first time in 40 years.
I have a web site with the pictures I took on that day.
http://www.frontiernet.net/~willshak/salem/salem.html
William E. Schnakenberg, SFM2 (ME2), Romeo Div.
USS Salem, Jan 1956 - Nov 1958
Remove OUTSPAMMEDDOT from my e-mail address when replying directly.
--
Paul J. Adam
<acto...@gwi.net> writes
>In general, photos taken in a shipyard of any sort are relatively rare.
>Between industrial security and goverment security, photography is not
>often allowed in shipyards.
I got some shots of HMS Illustrious in drydock :) But the RN had
anticipated this and carefully shrouded her screws. Still a fearfully
impressive sight, though...
dmb...@my-dejanews.com
> drydock tour ;)
>
It's been a long time, but Idon't recall that we had to wear them
when we went under the SS Great Britain. I would say that it was guite
a sight to see the sheer size of the screw, though.
Of course, as I say it was a long time ago, and the rules might be
different now.
David
William J Bollinger
>In article <6rif79$god$1...@noc1.gwi.net>,
> acto...@gwi.net (Andrew C. Toppan) wrote:
>>
>> I doubt the tourists would like wearing buckets [hard hats] for the
>> drydock tour ;)
>>
>
>It's been a long time, but Idon't recall that we had to wear them
>when we went under the SS Great Britain. I would say that it was guite
>a sight to see the sheer size of the screw, though.
>
>Of course, as I say it was a long time ago, and the rules might be
>different now.
>
Not the rules, just the number of lawyers (scuse my language). : )
Support the American Academy of Industry in their effort to save the aircraft carrier Cabot and the cruiser Des Moines.
For information see <http://www.divemiami.com/>
Andrew C. Toppan
> I got some shots of HMS Illustrious in drydock :) But the RN had
> anticipated this and carefully shrouded her screws.
Shrouded for security, or to keep the dockyard folks from
painting/blasting/welding/grinding them? CRP screws would
seem to be rather intolerant of that sort of activity.
Paul J. Adam
<acto...@gwi.net> writes
>Paul J. Adam (Pa...@jrwlynch.demon.co.uk) was seen to write:
>> I got some shots of HMS Illustrious in drydock :) But the RN had
>> anticipated this and carefully shrouded her screws.
>
>Shrouded for security, or to keep the dockyard folks from
>painting/blasting/welding/grinding them?
My guess would be "both" :)