President Bush Demonstrates The Power Of The Bully Pulpit -- He Says Drill! Drill! Drill! -- Oil Price Drops $9/Barrel
D. Spencer Hines
--
DSH
Lux et Veritas et Libertas
Vires et Honor
-----------------------------------------
National Review
Kudlow's Money Politics
Tuesday, July 15, 2008
Bush Says Drill, Drill, Drill — and Oil Drops $9!
Larry Kudlow
In a dramatic move yesterday President Bush removed the executive-branch
moratorium on offshore drilling. Today, at a news conference, Bush repeated
his new position, and slammed the Democratic Congress for not removing the
congressional moratorium on the Outer Continental Shelf and elsewhere.
Crude-oil futures for August delivery plunged $9.26, or 6.3 percent, almost
immediately as Bush was speaking, bringing the barrel price down to $136.
Now isn’t this interesting?
Democrats keep saying that it will take 10 years or longer to produce oil
from the offshore areas. And they say that oil prices won’t decline for at
least that long. And they, along with Obama and McCain, bash so-called oil
speculators. And today we had a real-world example as to why they are
wrong. All of them. Reid, Pelosi, Obama, McCain — all of them.
Traders took a look at a feisty and aggressive George Bush and started
selling the market well before a single new drop of oil has been lifted.
What does this tell us? Well, if Congress moves to seal the deal, oil
prices will probably keep on falling. That’s the way traders work. They
discount the future. Psychology and expectations can turn on a dime.
PRECISELY! -- DSH
The congressional ban on offshore drilling expires September 30, so that
becomes a key date. A new report from Wall Street research house Sanford C.
Bernstein says that California actually could start producing new oil within
one year if the moratorium were lifted. The California oil is under shallow
water and already has been explored. Drilling platforms have been in place
since before the moratorium. They’re talking about 10 billion barrels worth
off the coast of California.
There’s also a “gang of 10” in the Senate, five Republicans and five
Democrats, that is trying to work a compromise deal on lifting the
moratorium. So it’s possible a lot of action on this front could occur much
sooner than people seem to think.
So I repeat: Drill, drill, drill. Deregulate, decontrol, and unleash the
American energy industry. Those hated traders will then keep selling oil as
the laws of supply and demand and free markets keep working.
Bravo for Bush. Bravo for the traders.
Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
Total bullshit. Had nothing to do with Bush's comments
The reason oil future prices dropped was Bernanke's comments about
high fuel prices reducing demand -- and the oil suppliers do NOT want
to see demand go down.
-----
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Oil prices plummeted by the second-largest
margin on record Tuesday as investors feared a further decline in U.S.
demand after hearing comments from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben
Bernanke.
Light, sweet crude fell $6.44 to settle at $138.74 a barrel in trading
on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
The drop in oil was the largest single-day slide in dollar terms since
Jan. 17, 1991, when oil fell by $10.56. On that day, President George
H.W. Bush withdrew oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve ahead of
the first Gulf War.
But in 1991, oil was trading at just $32 a barrel, so the more than
$10 slide in dollar terms represented a record 33% drop. Oil fell 4.4%
Tuesday, which does not even crack the top 100 price declines in
percentage terms.
On Tuesday morning, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke warned that
high energy prices have helped to limit the purchasing power of U.S.
households. High energy costs will remain a drag on the U.S. economy
for the rest of the year, Bernanke told the Senate Banking Committee
Tuesday.
That could result in businesses pushing a greater percentage of their
high fuel and commodity costs through to consumers, he warned.
Immediately following Bernanke's speech, prices dropped more than $9,
sinking below $136 a barrel, before recovering some.
"There's more demand destruction than people first perceived," said
Neal Dingman, senior energy analyst at Dahlman Rose & Co.
James Hogg
Names" <PopUl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Total bullshit. Had nothing to do with Bush's comments
>
>The reason oil future prices dropped was Bernanke's comments about
>high fuel prices reducing demand -- and the oil suppliers do NOT want
>to see demand go down.
Don't be surprised that some naïfs have trouble understanding
cause and effect.
It's a difficulty that particularly affects pimply-faced hero
worshippers and crypto-socialists malgré soi-mêmes, the kind of
people who imagine that interference in economic affairs by
big-government advocates is more significant than market forces.
James
Jack Linthicum
> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:42:30 -0700 (PDT), "Kickin' Ass and Takin'
>
>
> >Total bullshit. Had nothing to do with Bush's comments
>
> >The reason oil future prices dropped was Bernanke's comments about
> >high fuel prices reducing demand -- and the oil suppliers do NOT want
> >to see demand go down.
>
> Don't be surprised that some naïfs have trouble understanding
> cause and effect.
>
> It's a difficulty that particularly affects pimply-faced hero
> worshippers and crypto-socialists malgré soi-mêmes, the kind of
> people who imagine that interference in economic affairs by
> big-government advocates is more significant than market forces.
>
> James
or non-interference, such as Bush's refusal to use the Strategic
Reserve to lower prices by increasing available supply. The contrary
wisdom of buying oil for the reserve at ultra-high prices also
influenced the idea of "demand".
Jack G.
wrote:
The strategic reserve is a liberal crutch they bring up when trying to
hide behind their poor leadership. The problem they caused is still
there.
Jack Linthicum
So why does the "right" keep acting like it is the saving grace of the
nation? Bush said he is saving it for a real emergency. Like when the
mob comes to 1600 Pennsylvania and the guards furnish them with rope?
Pepperoni
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:fb320e9c-4b23-4074...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
-----------------
Actually, most of the oil was procured as tax payment from gulf of Mexico
producers. Though not actually purchased, this oil did reduce stocks from
domestic sources.
The royalty-in-kind program applies to oil owed to the U.S. government by
producers who operate leases on the federally-owned Outer Continental Shelf.
These producers are required to provide from 12.5 percent to 16.7 percent of
the oil they produce to the U.S. government. The government can either
acquire the oil itself or receive the equivalent dollar value.
http://fossil.energy.gov/programs/reserves/spr/
Jack Linthicum
> "Jack Linthicum" <jacklinthi...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
So what is the price stated on the oil companies' tax documents? and
didn't the program start out as something other than a tax dodge for
the oil companies?
"On July 21, 1977, the first oil - approximately 412,000 barrels of
Saudi Arabian light crude - was delivered to the SPR. Fill of the
Nation's emergency oil reserve had begun."
The.S...@gmail.com
Well yes. They'll need the oil for the rags of the torches after all.
!Jones
Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>Economics 101.
Had you actually taken ECO 101, you would have been exposed to the
idea of the "market clearing price" (MCP). An MCP is the highest
price you can charge and sell all of your inventory. There is no
reason to sell below that (I'm a capitalist) and selling above the MCP
results in unsold inventory.
If we increase the supply, then the MCP will drop. The result of this
will be that we will consume more of the product because SUVs are
great to have... they're just gasoline pigs.
Now, we will have to develop domestic energy resources; however, this
must be coupled with an energy policy that encourages conservation;
the other way to drop the MCP is to use less of the product!
The pump price of gasoline in most countries is around $8/gal or so.
The reason for this is that these countries fund the highway
infrastructure with a consumption tax. When you think about it, it
makes much more sense than the US method of income tax funding. If I
(joined by a few million others) reduce my driving, then the price of
gasoline drops; this allows my neighbor across the street to continue
driving his SUV and I'm still paying income tax for the roads on which
he drives... moreover, he has to navigate less traffic. A three to
five dollar per gallon gasoline tax would fund the roads and encourage
me to continue taking my bicycle to work. I would pay less income tax
and people who choose to continue driving may fund the roads. As more
people opt out of private cars, the traffic drops and it doesn't cost
as much to maintain the roads... it's a win/win... unless you want to
drive an SUV, of course.
So... ECO 101 not as simple as you thought, eh? I say: develop
resources *and* policies that encourage conservation. In a free
market, the only way to do the latter is to drive up the consumer
price.
Jones
Chas Hurst
"!Jones" <h...@there.org> wrote in message
news:m04s74ln3pfsq4b0c...@4ax.com...
The big tax on fuel in many countries funds healthcare not highways. Yearly
fees, many assesed by engine displacement, on vehicles funds highway
maintenance.
>
!Jones
Ass and Takin' Names" <PopUl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Total bullshit.
Totally agreed; but, then, given the author... what's so special about
*this* time?
>The reason oil future prices dropped was Bernanke's comments about
>high fuel prices reducing demand -- and the oil suppliers do NOT want
>to see demand go down.
Yeah, of course. At some point, people change their behavior, use
less gasoline, and, at that point, prices drop. The silly poster to
whom you respond clearly does not understand that.
The down side of this scenario is that consumption will now *increase*
because gasoline is cheap once again. If you're a supplier of a
product, you want to keep your price a penny below that which will
cause consumers to change their behavior and use less of your product.
Jones
!Jones
<hur...@comcast.net> wrote:
>The big tax on fuel in many countries funds healthcare not highways. Yearly
>fees, many assesed by engine displacement, on vehicles funds highway
>maintenance.
You are correct; however, I don't think it's a good idea. Health care
is an important, however, entirely different issue. It makes more
sense to me not to co-mingle the funds.
Jones
Raymond O'Hara
you do realize that any domestically drilled oil will get sold on the world
market just like every other drop of oil.
Tiger
Yes! Just like castles of old, All of us Right wingers with our guns &
bibles will man walls to pour burning oil on the Frankenstein mob.
J A
"D. Spencer Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote in message
news:Elhfk.191$AB3...@eagle.america.net...
> Economics 101.
> --
> DSH
> Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> Vires et Honor
> -----------------------------------------
>
> National Review
> Kudlow's Money Politics
>
> Tuesday, July 15, 2008
>
> Bush Says Drill, Drill, Drill — and Oil Drops $9!
>
> Larry Kudlow
>
> In a dramatic move yesterday President Bush removed the executive-branch
> moratorium on offshore drilling. Today, at a news conference, Bush
> repeated
> his new position, and slammed the Democratic Congress for not removing the
> congressional moratorium on the Outer Continental Shelf and elsewhere.
> Crude-oil futures for August delivery plunged $9.26, or 6.3 percent,
> almost
> immediately as Bush was speaking, bringing the barrel price down to $136.
Like Bush and Rush Limbaugh, Kudlow is a reformed? drug addict.
If I remember right, he was using cocaine during the day, while he was an
appointee in the Reagan administration.
A good reason for not using drugs, including alcohol, is the lasting effects
it has on the brain.
This is a serious example financial market / economic incompetence. The
commodities futures markets operate on perception of short term
supply/demand time horizons factors, and the percentage of daily world
production that the OCS areas under discussion might yield in about 10
years, is quite low.
The fact that you bought into this piece of obvious mis&dis-information is
consistent with you being a Bush Republican.
BTW, yesterday the media was full of news on the Fed chairman commenting on
his heightened concerns about the US economy --- the slowing of GDP
growth rates, the need for raising interest rates to combat inflation.
Work it out, if you can, bush republican.
!Jones
O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>you do realize that any domestically drilled oil will get sold on the world
>market just like every other drop of oil.
Whether it does or doesn't, its price will be driven thus. It would
make no sense at all to sell it any cheaper than market price, so I'd
say you're correct.
Jones
Raymond O'Hara
it would be years before any of the oil hits the market. and the amount so
small as to have no real effect.
!Jones
O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"!Jones" <h...@there.org> wrote in message
>news:5l8t741l0vb66pa59...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:50:55 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam "Raymond
>> O'Hara" <raymon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>you do realize that any domestically drilled oil will get sold on the
>>>world
>>>market just like every other drop of oil.
>>
>> Whether it does or doesn't, its price will be driven thus. It would
>> make no sense at all to sell it any cheaper than market price, so I'd
>> say you're correct.
>
>it would be years before any of the oil hits the market. and the amount so
>small as to have no real effect.
I'm trying to agree with you; however, we should still develop
domestic resources.
Jones
Raymond O'Hara
the anwar is the last wilderness left and the oil there would be cone in
less than a year.
off the east coast the rigs would be in some of the worlds most productive
fishing grounds and even if they avoided spills it would still ruin them as
the rigs would interfer with the fishing and the fish tend to school around
the rigs making it nigh impossible to trawl for them..
the oil companies know they won't get to drill in those places so it makes a
good strawman to blame the high price of oil on it being denied them
the problem is the speculators{ pension funds are especially fond of the
deregulated market}
unlike the stock market where one has to make at least 50% of the price when
buying on margin the deregulated oil futures market has no such rule and if
you can invest $15million you can buy on a very slim margin.if thy imposed
the same rules in the oil futures that they have for stocks oil would drop
to $70, a barrel overnight.
oil prices are high because of the speculation bubbleno because of any
mythical shortage.
!Jones
fixed that after the 1929 thing? I suck at picking stocks.
But there's an uncapped demand and a finite supply. I think I'm going
to embrace Islam and immigrate to Saudi Arabia.
Jones
Jack Linthicum
http://www.nymex.com/CL_spec.aspx
It takes a good memory, in a different context one futures trader
described the sound of 800 pounds of plywood hitting your driveway at
6 am. Imagine oil.
Peter Skelton
Embrace conservatism and move to Alberta, they have as much oil
and the girls don't cover up as much.
Peter Skelton
!Jones
Linthicum <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>It takes a good memory, in a different context one futures trader
>described the sound of 800 pounds of plywood hitting your driveway at
>6 am. Imagine oil.
Now, *there* is a mental picture!
What I wanna know, is why they call it "light, *SWEET* crude"? OK, I
understand the "light" part... it has a high percentage of volitile
hydrocarbon; but, why "sweet"? Does someone taste it?
Jones
Peter Skelton
low contaminates, sulphur being the main culprit
Peter Skelton
!Jones
<skel...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>But there's an uncapped demand and a finite supply. I think I'm going
>>to embrace Islam and immigrate to Saudi Arabia.
>>
>Embrace conservatism and move to Alberta, they have as much oil
>and the girls don't cover up as much.
I've been there and nearly froze my ass off. It was pretty; however,
the mosquitoes were fierce! Wearing insect repellant lotion in
Alberta is like wearing a water repellant jacket on the Titanic!
Actually, I like Buddist women the best.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samm� sambuddhassa...
Jones
!Jones
<skel...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>>What I wanna know, is why they call it "light, *SWEET* crude"? OK, I
>>understand the "light" part... it has a high percentage of volitile
>>hydrocarbon; but, why "sweet"? Does someone taste it?
>>
>low contaminates, sulphur being the main culprit
Suggested candidates:
pure crude
low sulpuur crude
uncontaminated crude
unadulterated crude
unpolluted crude
clean crude
untainted crude
wholesome crude
unsullied crude
one hundred per cent crude
genuine crude
authentic crude
But *sweet* crude? Naaaaa...
Jones
!Jones
Hines" <pan...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>Bravo for Bush. Bravo for the traders.
I say, Spencer! Have you ever considered embracing fellacio, moving
to Montrose, and becoming a faggot? Methinks you'd make a fine one.
Jones
Richard Casady
wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:14:29 -0500, !Jones <h...@there.org> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 18 Jul 2008 06:53:45 -0700 (PDT), in alt.war.vietnam Jack
>>Linthicum <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>It takes a good memory, in a different context one futures trader
>>>described the sound of 800 pounds of plywood hitting your driveway at
>>>6 am. Imagine oil.
>>
>>Now, *there* is a mental picture!
>>
>>What I wanna know, is why they call it "light, *SWEET* crude"? OK, I
>>understand the "light" part... it has a high percentage of volitile
>>hydrocarbon; but, why "sweet"? Does someone taste it?
>>
>low contaminates, sulphur being the main culprit
The benchmark stuff is West Texas light, sweet. The Texas part, at
least is easy to figure. Midland has the benchmark stuff.
Casady
J A
>I didn't know that you could buy oil futures on margin... I thought we
> fixed that after the 1929 thing? I suck at picking stocks.
All futures markets operate on leverage.
> But there's an uncapped demand and a finite supply. I think I'm going
> to embrace Islam and immigrate to Saudi Arabia.
Stick with jebus, and pray for him to create a huge moderate depth
accumulation right below New Orleans, so all those sinking levees won't be
totally worthless...
>
> Jones
>
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
> the problem is the speculators{ pension funds are especially fond of the
> deregulated market}
> unlike the stock market where one has to make at least 50% of the price when
> buying on margin the deregulated oil futures market has no such rule and if
> you can invest $15million you can buy on a very slim margin.if thy imposed
> the same rules in the oil futures that they have for stocks oil would drop
> to $70, a barrel overnight.
>
> oil prices are high because of the speculation bubbleno because of any
> mythical shortage.
>
>
If the demand is not there to support the price then the oil futures
market is now a sucker market. When the bubble bursts it will burn
a lot of speculators.
Andrew Swallow
Andrew Swallow
They will have to hire an oil tanker to keep oil in. Also pay the
full price and hope they can sell before the price goes down.
Andrew Swallow
Les Cargill
The shorts will eat their livers.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5TtajgUpSm7KY5jf-lCJGHBB-tAD91V47KG0
--
Les Cargill
BL5511
<PopUlist...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 3:21 am, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Economics 101.
> > --
> > DSH
> > Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> > Vires et Honor
> > -----------------------------------------
>
> > National Review
> > Kudlow's Money Politics
>
> > Tuesday, July 15, 2008
>
> > Bush Says Drill, Drill, Drill — and Oil Drops $9!
>
the threats of war against Iran was reduced when the Bush admin.
decided to talk directly to Iran and Israel made a peace deal with
Hazebolah.
If Iran and U.S. start practicing war games and missile tests again,
oil price will go up regardless of how many areas the U.S. will open
for drill.
> > Larry Kudlow
>
> > In a dramatic move yesterday President Bush removed the executive-branch
> > moratorium on offshore drilling. Today, at a news conference, Bush repeated
> > his new position, and slammed the Democratic Congress for not removing the
> > congressional moratorium on the Outer Continental Shelf and elsewhere.
> > Crude-oil futures for August delivery plunged $9.26, or 6.3 percent, almost
> > immediately as Bush was speaking, bringing the barrel price down to $136.
>
> > Now isn’t this interesting?
>
> > Democrats keep saying that it will take 10 years or longer to produce oil
> > from the offshore areas. And they say that oil prices won’t decline for at
> > least that long. And they, along with Obama and McCain, bash so-called oil
> > speculators. And today we had a real-world example as to why they are
> > wrong. All of them. Reid, Pelosi, Obama, McCain — all of them.
>
> > Traders took a look at a feisty and aggressive George Bush and started
> > selling the market well before a single new drop of oil has been lifted.
> > What does this tell us? Well, if Congress moves to seal the deal, oil
> > prices will probably keep on falling. That’s the way traders work. They
> > discount the future. Psychology and expectations can turn on a dime.
>
> > PRECISELY! -- DSH
>
> > The congressional ban on offshore drilling expires September 30, so that
> > becomes a key date. A new report from Wall Street research house Sanford C.
> > Bernstein says that California actually could start producing new oil within
> > one year if the moratorium were lifted. The California oil is under shallow
> > water and already has been explored. Drilling platforms have been in place
> > since before the moratorium. They’re talking about 10 billion barrels worth
> > off the coast of California.
>
> > There’s also a “gang of 10” in the Senate, five Republicans and five
> > Democrats, that is trying to work a compromise deal on lifting the
> > moratorium. So it’s possible a lot of action on this front could occur much
> > sooner than people seem to think.
>
> > So I repeat: Drill, drill, drill. Deregulate, decontrol, and unleash the
> > American energy industry. Those hated traders will then keep selling oil as
> > the laws of supply and demand and free markets keep working.
>
> > Bravo for Bush. Bravo for the traders.
>
> Total bullshit. Had nothing to do with Bush's comments
>
> The reason oil future prices dropped was Bernanke's comments about
> high fuel prices reducing demand -- and the oil suppliers do NOT want
> to see demand go down.
>
> -----
>
> NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Oil prices plummeted by the second-largest
> margin on record Tuesday as investors feared a further decline in U.S.
> demand after hearing comments from Federal Reserve Chairman Ben
> Bernanke.
>
> Light, sweet crude fell $6.44 to settle at $138.74 a barrel in trading
> on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
>
> The drop in oil was the largest single-day slide in dollar terms since
> Jan. 17, 1991, when oil fell by $10.56. On that day, President George
> H.W. Bush withdrew oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve ahead of
> the first Gulf War.
>
> But in 1991, oil was trading at just $32 a barrel, so the more than
> $10 slide in dollar terms represented a record 33% drop. Oil fell 4.4%
> Tuesday, which does not even crack the top 100 price declines in
> percentage terms.
>
> On Tuesday morning, Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke warned that
> high energy prices have helped to limit the purchasing power of U.S.
> households. High energy costs will remain a drag on the U.S. economy
> for the rest of the year, Bernanke told the Senate Banking Committee
> Tuesday.
>
> That could result in businesses pushing a greater percentage of their
> high fuel and commodity costs through to consumers, he warned.
>
> Immediately following Bernanke's speech, prices dropped more than $9,
> sinking below $136 a barrel, before recovering some.
>
> "There's more demand destruction than people first perceived," said
> Neal Dingman, senior energy analyst at Dahlman Rose & Co.
Mark Test
news:2b7a2585-2304-4df7...@59g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 16, 4:42 am, "Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names"
<PopUlist...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 16, 3:21 am, "D. Spencer Hines" <pant...@excelsior.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Economics 101.
> > --
> > DSH
> > Lux et Veritas et Libertas
> > Vires et Honor
> > -----------------------------------------
>
> > National Review
> > Kudlow's Money Politics
>
> > Tuesday, July 15, 2008
>
> > Bush Says Drill, Drill, Drill — and Oil Drops $9!
>
No, it is not Drill Drill that caused oil to drop $9. It is because
the threats of war against Iran was reduced when the Bush admin.
decided to talk directly to Iran and Israel made a peace deal with
Hazebolah.
If Iran and U.S. start practicing war games and missile tests again,
oil price will go up regardless of how many areas the U.S. will open
for drill.
Both takes are valid since they are speculative.....and specualtors control
the price of all commodities in a free market. One should not ignore that
lifting drilling bans will always drive the price down.
Mark
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Jack Linthicum
I didn't catch the full drift but one of those talking heads on CNBC
(NBC's business channel) said that if the price gets below $131 for
any length of time the problem of delivery and payment become crucial.
!Jones
<MAR...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>Both takes are valid since they are speculative.....and specualtors control
>the price of all commodities in a free market. One should not ignore that
>lifting drilling bans will always drive the price down.
As long as the drilling occurs in your back yard, then go for it. I
live on the Gulf Coast and I'm perfectly happy with the price of
gasoline... as opposed to more drilling anywhere around here, I mean.
As soon as an oil well moves in next door to *you*, you'll join
Greenpeace; I assure you that oil rigs definitely suck as neighbors.
You may drill... just not in my back yard.
The other way prices are capped is when they hit the point where
people change their behavior and use less fuel. We should be learning
to get by on five gallons a week... I'm able to do that just fine, so
why do we need any more drilling?
Jones
Horvath
crap:
>You may drill... just not in my back yard.
>
>The other way prices are capped is when they hit the point where
>people change their behavior and use less fuel. We should be learning
>to get by on five gallons a week... I'm able to do that just fine, so
>why do we need any more drilling?
Five gallons a week?????? You are an idiot. I use more than five
gallons a day.
Hor...@Horvath.net
My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
ultimate power in the universe."
!Jones
<Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>>The other way prices are capped is when they hit the point where
>>people change their behavior and use less fuel. We should be learning
>>to get by on five gallons a week... I'm able to do that just fine, so
>>why do we need any more drilling?
>
>Five gallons a week?????? You are an idiot. I use more than five
>gallons a day.
So, *who*, exactly, is the idiot? Look at it like this: suppose all
you had was five gallons... period. Would you survive? Of course you
would! You'd cope; you'd "adapt and overcome"; you'd turn adversity
into victory... that's the American way. Well, OK, there would be
*lots* of whining... that's also the American way; we see cheap
gasoline as a right.
My point is that your great great grandfather did it and so can you.
It's in your future, so get used to it.
Jones
Horvath
crap:
>>Five gallons a week?????? You are an idiot. I use more than five
>>gallons a day.
>
>So, *who*, exactly, is the idiot? Look at it like this: suppose all
>you had was five gallons... period. Would you survive? Of course you
What fucking bullshit. I have to drive my truck to my customers
sites.
>would! You'd cope; you'd "adapt and overcome"; you'd turn adversity
>into victory... that's the American way. Well, OK, there would be
>*lots* of whining... that's also the American way; we see cheap
>gasoline as a right.
>
>My point is that your great great grandfather did it and so can you.
>It's in your future, so get used to it.
I'd be living in a tent, and pissing in the woods. That's not the
American Way Of Life, you fucking asshole.
Fucking ASSHOLE.
Sharky
>>My point is that your great great grandfather did it and so can you.
>>It's in your future, so get used to it.
>
>I'd be living in a tent, and pissing in the woods. That's not the
>American Way Of Life, you fucking asshole.
That reminds me of a quote I saw recently:
"I love hippys, and want to live in a yurt with a Paki girl and eat
yogurt and curry and shit in a bucket like my ancestors did."
The real truth about oil is that there are several hundreds of years
worth stored in the Earth and petroleum is far more important to us
than simply a source of gasoline. If we deny American oil companies
the ability to "exploit" the oil off shore in the gulf, then we are
simply allowing other nations to take that oil without so much as a
reach around. China is already well on its way of exploiting what our
"leaders" are prohibiting.
!Jones
<Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>What fucking bullshit. I have to drive my truck to my customers
>sites.
Then you should get custoners that are closer to you or you should
move closer to your customers. It *can* be done; however, we'll
definitely hear whining and gnashing of teeth. Innovate, you ID10t!
That's the hallmark of Americans; adapt and overcome.
But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
have to do to get inside that five gallon/week limit, gasoline prices
will drop like a *rock*.
When they drill on the Gulf Coast, it hurts *me*. Don't even bring it
up until *you* have put something on the table. Otherwise, drill in
your own backyard.
Jones
Sharky
>When they drill on the Gulf Coast, it hurts *me*. Don't even bring it
>up until *you* have put something on the table. Otherwise, drill in
>your own backyard.
I believe the drilling in question is about 50 miles from shore;
exactly how does that affect you?
Chas Hurst
"Sharky" <sh...@he11sgates.org> wrote in message
news:4883a05e....@news.webtv.com...
Sure, let's use up our oil reserves to fuel our gas hogs.
If you think the Arabs own us now, wait 'till we have no oil of our own.
And why would the oil companies spend billions in new gas/oil wells to lower
the price of fuel?
Bush signed the Florida Straits treaty with Cuba, he's OK with it. BTW,
Cheney was lying about China drilling off the coast of Florida.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/40776.html
Fred J. McCall
:On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:37:47 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
:<Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
:
:>What fucking bullshit. I have to drive my truck to my customers
:>sites.
:
:Then you should get custoners that are closer to you or you should
:move closer to your customers. It *can* be done; however, we'll
:definitely hear whining and gnashing of teeth. Innovate, you ID10t!
:That's the hallmark of Americans; adapt and overcome.
:
So there is no plumbing, heating, cooling, etc, in your world?
:
:But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
:have to do to get inside that five gallon/week limit, gasoline prices
:will drop like a *rock*.
:
Well, no. What they'll do is go through the roof, along with heating
oil and everything else that isn't produced within five miles of your
house.
--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine
Jack Linthicum
>
> :
> :>What fucking bullshit. I have to drive my truck to my customers
> :>sites.
> :
> :Then you should get custoners that are closer to you or you should
> :move closer to your customers. It *can* be done; however, we'll
> :definitely hear whining and gnashing of teeth. Innovate, you ID10t!
> :That's the hallmark of Americans; adapt and overcome.
> :
>
> So there is no plumbing, heating, cooling, etc, in your world?
>
> :
> :But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
> :have to do to get inside that five gallon/week limit, gasoline prices
> :will drop like a *rock*.
> :
>
> Well, no. What they'll do is go through the roof, along with heating
> oil and everything else that isn't produced within five miles of your
> house.
>
> --
> "Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
> only stupid."
> -- Heinrich Heine
Which, incidently, is one one of those 68 million acres of already
leased oil sites that the biggies won't touch. I would bet there is a
different tax structure for drilling offshore or in Alaska and the
reluctance to rework places like the Los Angeles Basin and those
"tapped out" fields in Okalhoma and Texas.
Horvath
crap:
>On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:37:47 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
><Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>
>>What fucking bullshit. I have to drive my truck to my customers
>>sites.
>
>Then you should get custoners that are closer to you or you should
>move closer to your customers. It *can* be done; however, we'll
You are a fucking lunatic. You think I should get my customers to
move? You are indeed insane.
>definitely hear whining and gnashing of teeth. Innovate, you ID10t!
>That's the hallmark of Americans; adapt and overcome.
>
>But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
>have to do to get inside that five gallon/week limit, gasoline prices
>will drop like a *rock*.
>
>When they drill on the Gulf Coast, it hurts *me*. Don't even bring it
>up until *you* have put something on the table. Otherwise, drill in
>your own backyard.
Gladly. But people like you, wouldn't allow it. They are the whiners
who say, "Don't drive so much, big boy." Fuck your opinion, I will
drive as much as I want, and I will use as much fuel as I want.
That's the American way of life.
Jack Linthicum
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:27:29 -0500, !Jones <h...@there.org> wrote this
> crap:
>
> >On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:37:47 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
> ><Horv...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>
> >>What fucking bullshit. I have to drive my truck to my customers
> >>sites.
>
> >Then you should get custoners that are closer to you or you should
> >move closer to your customers. It *can* be done; however, we'll
>
> You are a fucking lunatic. You think I should get my customers to
> move? You are indeed insane.
>
> >definitely hear whining and gnashing of teeth. Innovate, you ID10t!
> >That's the hallmark of Americans; adapt and overcome.
>
> >But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
> >will drop like a *rock*.
>
> >When they drill on the Gulf Coast, it hurts *me*. Don't even bring it
> >up until *you* have put something on the table. Otherwise, drill in
> >your own backyard.
>
> Gladly. But people like you, wouldn't allow it. They are the whiners
> who say, "Don't drive so much, big boy." Fuck your opinion, I will
> drive as much as I want, and I will use as much fuel as I want.
> That's the American way of life.
>
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
I suspect you may become acquainted with a computer program called
"The Salesman's Route" that will enable you to schedule your customers
in the most utilitarian way. (no, "utilitarian" isn't some foreign
political idea, it's what people do when they want to save money, or
gas)
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>> You are a fucking lunatic. You think I should get my customers to
>> move? You are indeed insane.
>>
>>
>> Gladly. But people like you, wouldn't allow it. They are the whiners
>> who say, "Don't drive so much, big boy." Fuck your opinion, I will
>> drive as much as I want, and I will use as much fuel as I want.
>> That's the American way of life.
>>
>
>I suspect you may become acquainted with a computer program called
>"The Salesman's Route" that will enable you to schedule your customers
>in the most utilitarian way. (no, "utilitarian" isn't some foreign
>political idea, it's what people do when they want to save money, or
>gas)
You assume I'm a salesman, dumbass. I'm a field engineer, dumbass.
When a customer calls for re-tooling, re-engineering, or repair, I'm
the one who shows up. I'm on call 24/7. I know lots of people in the
repair business, and you can't expect them to live on five gallons a
week, dumbass.
Right now, you're sitting at a computer. Do you ever think about the
people who work on the computer systems, the phone lines, the cable
service? Probably not. It's all about YOU. You turn on a switch,
and it comes to you. You live on five gallons a week. I'll use as
much as I want.
Hor...@Horvath.net
!Jones
That's where they currently drill and it certainly affects the Gulf
Coast. You can no longer walk on the beach without getting into tar.
They'd like to drill more in the barrier islands.
Like I say, drill on your own turf. You're Puget Sound area, right?
I'm damn sure they won't sink a bit *there*.
Jones
!Jones
<fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>:But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
>:have to do to get inside that five gallon/week limit, gasoline prices
>:will drop like a *rock*.
>:
>
>Well, no. What they'll do is go through the roof, along with heating...
Well, that's five gallons of consumption per person per week. I'm
usually well under that. You can live without air conditioning and
you can live if you keep your house above freezing in the winter. You
may as well get used to it because it's in your near future... ask one
of the seniors in your circle of friends how much fuel they used per
week in the early '30s. Not only did they survive, but they came out
the other side a truly great people.
My advice is to get out of debt, pay off your house, and start
learning how to live on less right now. That way, it'll come as less
of a shock when you have to.
Jones
Jack Linthicum
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:41:49 -0700, in alt.war.vietnam Fred J. McCall
>
Look at WWII rationing
http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/exhibits/events/rationing.htm
Andrew Swallow
Buy a horse.
Or an electric car.
Andrew Swallow
!Jones
<Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>Gladly. But people like you, wouldn't allow it. They are the whiners
>who say, "Don't drive so much, big boy." Fuck your opinion, I will
>drive as much as I want, and I will use as much fuel as I want.
>That's the American way of life.
Yes, that the way of life of the cheeseburger-fat American who has
always gotten his way... where the 'R'-word always means "rights",
never "responsibility".
But if you look back to what *made* America great in the first place,
it was a people who came through a world-wide depression in the
'30s... it was people who didn't *have* everything they wanted right
when they wanted it. We have gotten used to that only because of
their sacrifice.
One thing I've learned living on the Gulf Coast: hurricanes aren't
necessairly bad. Essentially, they're a giant flush for the wetlands;
afterwards, you've never seen such great fishing! Similarly, economic
depressions aren't all bad, either. People learn about hardship.
Consider: would today's Americans be able to have defeated Hitler?
Are you kidding? When Patton needed fuel for his tanks, we'd all
chorus: "I will drive as much as I want, and I will use as much fuel
as I want. That's the American way of life!"
But, you might want to think about getting ready for a change because
global winds are shifting.
Jones
Jack Linthicum
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 04:31:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
> >> You are a fucking lunatic. You think I should get my customers to
> >> move? You are indeed insane.
>
> >> Gladly. But people like you, wouldn't allow it. They are the whiners
> >> who say, "Don't drive so much, big boy." Fuck your opinion, I will
> >> drive as much as I want, and I will use as much fuel as I want.
> >> That's the American way of life.
>
> >I suspect you may become acquainted with a computer program called
> >"The Salesman's Route" that will enable you to schedule your customers
> >in the most utilitarian way. (no, "utilitarian" isn't some foreign
> >political idea, it's what people do when they want to save money, or
> >gas)
>
> You assume I'm a salesman, dumbass. I'm a field engineer, dumbass.
> When a customer calls for re-tooling, re-engineering, or repair, I'm
> the one who shows up. I'm on call 24/7. I know lots of people in the
> repair business, and you can't expect them to live on five gallons a
> week, dumbass.
>
> Right now, you're sitting at a computer. Do you ever think about the
> people who work on the computer systems, the phone lines, the cable
> service? Probably not. It's all about YOU. You turn on a switch,
> and it comes to you. You live on five gallons a week. I'll use as
> much as I want.
>
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
I do live on 5 gallons a week and you are trying to sell your greed as
a need.
How many of your jobs are repair? Do you haul a truck load of supplies
around with you wherever you go? How about getting a better spec on
the job before you go?
Would it pay you, if you are a sole employee, to hire someone to spec
out the jobs before you go there? Let them pay for their gas and see
where they save.
If you work for a company they are stupid, if you are any good at what
you do, not to pay for your use. Oh, yes, and if your services are so
valuable and unavailable elsewhere, jack up your fees. It's okay, the
price of fuel, you know.
!Jones
<Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>You live on five gallons a week. I'll use as
>much as I want.
Triple-beef patty (corn fed) cheeseburger and a super-size order of
fries, please... and a large shake... When was the last time you
walked a mile?
Jones
Jack Linthicum
wrote:
Then pay the man the money and shut up.
This requires a separate answer. Are you totally unaware of the The
Salesman's Route problem, as being a program designed to make the
distance traveled minimal? It uses the name Salesman but it applies to
anybody who has to travel to reach his clients. The smart people are
going to change from "the first customer call is the first customer
serviced."
Then you are a dolt, dumbass.
Mark Test
news:mh5484luj2njie8ar...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 09:57:08 -0500, in alt.war.vietnam "Mark Test"
> <MAR...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> >Both takes are valid since they are speculative.....and specualtors
control
> >the price of all commodities in a free market. One should not ignore that
> >lifting drilling bans will always drive the price down.
>
> As long as the drilling occurs in your back yard, then go for it. I
> live on the Gulf Coast and I'm perfectly happy with the price of
> gasoline... as opposed to more drilling anywhere around here, I mean.
> As soon as an oil well moves in next door to *you*, you'll join
> Greenpeace; I assure you that oil rigs definitely suck as neighbors.
>
> You may drill... just not in my back yard.
>
natural habitat actually thrives near oil rigs....
http://www.eskimo.com/~rarnold/energy_independence.htm
> The other way prices are capped is when they hit the point where
> people change their behavior and use less fuel. We should be learning
> to get by on five gallons a week... I'm able to do that just fine, so
> why do we need any more drilling?
>
Because we import 70% of our oil.....that, my friend is un-American....
Mark
--
"Drinking booze and raising rifles helps me through and through."
---Berzerkers, Black Label Society
Mark Test
"good 'ol days", where we lived off the land, died from cuts and
scrapes, no electricity or fossil fuels either.....that's one helluva
a future.
No thanks....
Mark Test
news:q6KdnQ53ceY5NR_V...@comcast.com...
>
> "Sharky" <sh...@he11sgates.org> wrote in message
> news:4883a05e....@news.webtv.com...
> > Horvath wrote:
> >
> >>>My point is that your great great grandfather did it and so can you.
> >>>It's in your future, so get used to it.
> >>
> >>I'd be living in a tent, and pissing in the woods. That's not the
> >>American Way Of Life, you fucking asshole.
> >
> > That reminds me of a quote I saw recently:
> >
> > "I love hippys, and want to live in a yurt with a Paki girl and eat
> > yogurt and curry and shit in a bucket like my ancestors did."
> >
> > The real truth about oil is that there are several hundreds of years
> > worth stored in the Earth and petroleum is far more important to us
> > than simply a source of gasoline. If we deny American oil companies
> > the ability to "exploit" the oil off shore in the gulf, then we are
> > simply allowing other nations to take that oil without so much as a
> > reach around. China is already well on its way of exploiting what our
> > "leaders" are prohibiting.
>
> Sure, let's use up our oil reserves to fuel our gas hogs.
> If you think the Arabs own us now, wait 'till we have no oil of our own.
> And why would the oil companies spend billions in new gas/oil wells to
lower
> the price of fuel?
You're not an economics major are you? You raise prices you lose cutomers,
lose customers means lower profits / earnings. With gas at $4 alt fuel is
now
competive, and oil co's know this. they also know that to lower prices they
need more oil. It's a shame to watch US gov't kill an industry.
Let the market kill the oil industry...which it will do a 100 years from
now.
Jack Linthicum
Oh, yes, drill where you already have leases. Interesting idea, ne?
Mark Test
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:37:47 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
> <Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>
> >What fucking bullshit. I have to drive my truck to my customers
> >sites.
>
> Then you should get custoners that are closer to you or you should
> move closer to your customers. It *can* be done; however, we'll
> definitely hear whining and gnashing of teeth. Innovate, you ID10t!
> That's the hallmark of Americans; adapt and overcome.
>
Read it again.....now, why should we revert back a 100 years?
http://conservativeprincipals.blogspot.com/2008/06/so-how-much-oil-is-really-out-there.html
The market (people) will solve the lack of oil issue...not govt....we
have a 100 years to shift to these alt fuels...not 10 years you morons
seem to think is all we have left.
Mark
--
"Another prophet of disaster who says the ship is lost, Another prophet of
disaster leaving you to count the cost, Taunting us with visions, afflicting
us with fear..."
--Iron Maiden (Die With Your Boots On)
Mark Test
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:37:30 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Sharky
> <sh...@he11sgates.org> wrote:
>
> >>When they drill on the Gulf Coast, it hurts *me*. Don't even bring it
> >>up until *you* have put something on the table. Otherwise, drill in
> >>your own backyard.
> >
> >I believe the drilling in question is about 50 miles from shore;
> >exactly how does that affect you?
>
> That's where they currently drill and it certainly affects the Gulf
> Coast. You can no longer walk on the beach without getting into tar.
OMFG!....that "tar" is natural.....it's smiliar to calcareous ooze.....quite
natural in
the Gulf of Mexico.....
Again, how does an oil rig off "my" coast...(I too live on the coast)
concern
you?
Mark
frank
speculators who can get tons of money for nothing. ANWR will do
nothing to lower prices.
Look, I'm from Texas. I know a bit about the oil market. In the 70s a
lot of outfits went belly up as they couldn't produce oil. it had to
be over $30 a barrel be worth getting from the ground. Anybody know
how many of those leases are being used? Yeah, what I thought.
We get most of our oil from Mexico and Canada now. That's close. Not
the Saudis, though they are a big global producer.
Canada is real stable. Mexico ain't bad, and they want the $$ from El
Norte, they ain't stupid. They'll send the unwashed masses North as
long as the big guys in the Haciendas on the hill make the bucks.
This whole mess started, when? When we went into Iraq? Remember all
the 'terrorists will stop oil' threats. Prices went up. Fair enough,
markets and exchanges follow crap like that. Blame Bush for going into
Iraq and have no real foreign policy.
Get a graph of how oil prices have gone up. Big increase has been past
year. So why, grasshopper, have prices gone up? They say China and
India are using more. So in the past YEAR they built enough factories,
cars all that crap to affect GLOBAL prices? Send me 30% of what you
earn, I can spend it better than you can. You can't be trusted with
money, the vote or a driver's license if you have that little common
sense.
The 'analysts' and their ilk who feed you this crap, including supply
and demand are lying. Get the hearings broadcast on C-Span. Yeah, old
boring, but they're rigging the market. The old 'Enron Loophole'
thanks to Phil 'mental recession' Gramm. I hate to tell you this, but
Texas A&M may be good at a lot of things from wearing old ROTC
uniforms to having a good engineering department, but econ ain't one
of their strengths.
What is going on now if the consequence of a bunch of people figuring
out they can rig a market and make tons of money on it. I wouldn't be
surprised if Dick Cheney ain't behind it. Sounds like stuff the
Republicans would set up.
If Congress puts back in the regulations that used to be there, I damn
well bet prices would drop fast.
What we have in oil is NOT a free market. Its being played by some of
the players, and like they found in the hearings, some ain't in the
awl bidness as we say in Texas. It may be that this time they really
got greedy enough to tip their hands.
The relevance to the Navy? How much bunker fuel do you think they buy
and burn to move a boat from A to B? Not everybody glows in the dark
when still grey and underway.
Don T
> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:41:49 -0700, in alt.war.vietnam Fred J. McCall
> <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>:But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
>>:have to do to get inside that five gallon/week limit, gasoline prices
>>:will drop like a *rock*.
>>:
>>
>>Well, no. What they'll do is go through the roof, along with heating...
>
> Well, that's five gallons of consumption per person per week. I'm
> usually well under that. You can live without air conditioning and
> you can live if you keep your house above freezing in the winter. You
> may as well get used to it because it's in your near future... ask one
> of the seniors in your circle of friends how much fuel they used per
> week in the early '30s. Not only did they survive, but they came out
> the other side a truly great people.
>
Ban All Mining! Then freeze and starve in the fucking dark like your
ancestors did.
--
Don Thompson
Stolen from Dan: "Just thinking, besides, I watched 2 dogs mating once,
and that makes me an expert. "
There is nothing more frightening than active ignorance.
~Goethe
It is a worthy thing to fight for one's freedom;
it is another sight finer to fight for another man's.
~Mark Twain
Horvath
<am.sw...@btinternet.com> wrote this crap:
>Horvath wrote:\
>>> gas)
>> \
>>
>> Right now, you're sitting at a computer. Do you ever think about the
>> people who work on the computer systems, the phone lines, the cable
>> service? Probably not. It's all about YOU. You turn on a switch,
>> and it comes to you. You live on five gallons a week. I'll use as
>> much as I want.
>>
>> \
>
>Buy a horse.
>
>Or an electric car.\
Go shove a gun a gun barrel in your mouth.
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>>
>> You assume I'm a salesman, dumbass. I'm a field engineer, dumbass.
>> When a customer calls for re-tooling, re-engineering, or repair, I'm
>> the one who shows up. I'm on call 24/7. I know lots of people in the
>> repair business, and you can't expect them to live on five gallons a
>> week, dumbass.
>>
>> Right now, you're sitting at a computer. Do you ever think about the
>> people who work on the computer systems, the phone lines, the cable
>> service? Probably not. It's all about YOU. You turn on a switch,
>> and it comes to you. You live on five gallons a week. I'll use as
>> much as I want.
>>
>
>I do live on 5 gallons a week and you are trying to sell your greed as
>a need.
>
>How many of your jobs are repair? Do you haul a truck load of supplies
>around with you wherever you go? How about getting a better spec on
>the job before you go?
How about shutting up your pie hole?
When you turn on the water, engineers make the water move. When you
turn on the computer, engineers make the electricity come in. The
cable works because of engineers. I could go on and on, but you are
an idiot, and don't understand how the infrastructure works. People
like me keep you living in luxury.
If I didn't have all the fuel I needed, people like you would be
screaming.
Hor...@Horvath.net
Fred J. McCall
:"!Jones" <h...@there.org> wrote in message
:news:spd6849o8ag6ruo4r...@4ax.com...
:> On Sat, 19 Jul 2008 21:41:49 -0700, in alt.war.vietnam Fred J. McCall
:> <fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:>
:>>:But, I'll guaren-fucking-tee you that, when you do whatever it is you
:>>:have to do to get inside that five gallon/week limit, gasoline prices
:>>:will drop like a *rock*.
:>>:
:>>
:>>Well, no. What they'll do is go through the roof, along with heating...
:>
:> Well, that's five gallons of consumption per person per week. I'm
:> usually well under that.
:>
:
I'd bet you aren't when all is said and done unless you are housebound
and don't cook, use heat, A/C, or electricity.
:
:You can live without air conditioning and ...
:
I invite you to come here and try that shit. Of course, your computer
will be off all summer, so I guess there might be a plus at that.
:
:>
:> you can live if you keep your house above freezing in the winter. You
:> may as well get used to it because it's in your near future... ask one
:> of the seniors in your circle of friends how much fuel they used per
:> week in the early '30s. Not only did they survive, but they came out
:> the other side a truly great people.
:>
:
I am one of the seniors in my circle of friends, you clueless twat.
How much fuel do you think is burned in a week to get the food you
consume to you?
:
: Ban All Mining! Then freeze and starve in the fucking dark like your
:ancestors did.
:
Oh, it's worse than that. He's pretending things were what they were
not in order to make his argument.
--
"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable
man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore,
all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
--George Bernard Shaw
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>
>This requires a separate answer. Are you totally unaware of the The
>Salesman's Route problem, as being a program designed to make the
>distance traveled minimal? It uses the name Salesman but it applies to
>anybody who has to travel to reach his clients. The smart people are
>going to change from "the first customer call is the first customer
>serviced."
>
>Then you are a dolt, dumbass.
I'm not a salesman, dumbass. I'm a field engineer, brainiac. I have
to be places to ensure the quality of your life. What part of that do
you have trouble understanding?
Hor...@Horvath.net
Horvath
crap:
>On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:37:11 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
Two days ago, I swam a mile.
Jack Linthicum
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 06:39:30 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
>
>
> >This requires a separate answer. Are you totally unaware of the The
> >Salesman's Route problem, as being a program designed to make the
> >distance traveled minimal? It uses the name Salesman but it applies to
> >anybody who has to travel to reach his clients. The smart people are
> >going to change from "the first customer call is the first customer
> >serviced."
>
> >Then you are a dolt, dumbass.
>
> I'm not a salesman, dumbass. I'm a field engineer, brainiac. I have
> to be places to ensure the quality of your life. What part of that do
> you have trouble understanding?
>
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
Well you don't seem to understand that your assumed title of
"engineer" is just another name for "service employee." And the
Salesman's Route is designed to save you money rather than wandering
around from customer to customer like a brush salesman. Field Engineer
for what?
!Jones
<MAR...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> That's where they currently drill and it certainly affects the Gulf
>> Coast. You can no longer walk on the beach without getting into tar.
>
>OMFG!....that "tar" is natural.....it's smiliar to calcareous ooze.....quite
>natural in the Gulf of Mexico.....
Some of it is. Oil is a perfectly natural substance, but tell that to
the residents along Prince William Sound.
>Again, how does an oil rig off "my" coast...(I too live on the coast)
>concern you?
They're pollutants in my environment. They occasionally spill oil;
they shriek their presence from dusk to dawn; they contribute to light
pollution (nights are supposed to be *dark*); and they dump lots of
trash overboard. You have heavy support traffic which is worse than
the actual drill rig. I don't have a problem if they drill in *your*
back yard, but I don't want drilling in mine... at least not until you
have severly reduced your fuel consumption, then we'll discuss it.
Don't expect me to live with an oil rig so that you can continue to
drive an SUV, that's all, folks.
Jones
!Jones
Linthicum <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Look at WWII rationing
>
>http://www.ameshistoricalsociety.org/exhibits/events/rationing.htm
Yup... four gallons a week; it can be done!
Jones
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>> I'm not a salesman, dumbass. I'm a field engineer, brainiac. I have
>> to be places to ensure the quality of your life. What part of that do
>> you have trouble understanding?
>>
>Well you don't seem to understand that your assumed title of
>"engineer" is just another name for "service employee." And the
So what? Who cares what I'm called? Especially an idiot like you.
>Salesman's Route is designed to save you money rather than wandering
>around from customer to customer like a brush salesman.
I'm on call, dumbass. When you flush the toilet, think of all the
engineers, and workers who keep the water running, and the sewers
open. When you flip a switch, think of the engineers and workers who
keep the juice flowing.
>Field Engineer for what?
I'm a communications engineer. I keep your cable running, and the
internet humming. When I'm not working, your quality of life ends.
You better pray that I get all the gas that I want, or you can't use
your computer, your cable, or your phone.
Hor...@Horvath.net
!Jones
<-pain...@louvre.org> wrote:
>> Well, that's five gallons of consumption per person per week. I'm
>> usually well under that. You can live without air conditioning and
>> you can live if you keep your house above freezing in the winter. You
>> may as well get used to it because it's in your near future... ask one
>> of the seniors in your circle of friends how much fuel they used per
>> week in the early '30s. Not only did they survive, but they came out
>> the other side a truly great people.
>>
>
> Ban All Mining! Then freeze and starve in the fucking dark like your
>ancestors did.
Many are cold, but few are frozen, Delta-Tango. You can survive on a
lot less than you think you can. By cutting back now, we *might*
avoid the necessity to do so. My ancestors made it and so did yours.
And, know what? ... people are happiest when they have what they need
and *some* of what they want. When people get everything they want,
it becomes their *right*; then they get soft and lazy.
Stay lean; stay just a little bit hungry... it makes your food taste
better!
Jones
!Jones
<fmc...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>:> Well, that's five gallons of consumption per person per week. I'm
>:> usually well under that.
>
>I'd bet you aren't when all is said and done unless you are housebound
>and don't cook, use heat, A/C, or electricity.
I'll bet we are! We used 204 kW/hr last month, do the math. And we
are by no means housebound; we have simply adapted our lifestyle. we
own a gasoline-powered vehicle; however, we do not start it except
about once every couple of weeks. We get around by bicycle and my
wife has the sexiest legs in town!!! (That's what I think, anyway.)
Jones
Jack Linthicum
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 13:40:47 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
> >> I'm not a salesman, dumbass. I'm a field engineer, brainiac. I have
> >> to be places to ensure the quality of your life. What part of that do
> >> you have trouble understanding?
>
> >Well you don't seem to understand that your assumed title of
> >"engineer" is just another name for "service employee." And the
>
> So what? Who cares what I'm called? Especially an idiot like you.
>
> >Salesman's Route is designed to save you money rather than wandering
> >around from customer to customer like a brush salesman.
>
> I'm on call, dumbass. When you flush the toilet, think of all the
> engineers, and workers who keep the water running, and the sewers
> open. When you flip a switch, think of the engineers and workers who
> keep the juice flowing.
>
> >Field Engineer for what?
>
> I'm a communications engineer. I keep your cable running, and the
> internet humming. When I'm not working, your quality of life ends.
>
> You better pray that I get all the gas that I want, or you can't use
> your computer, your cable, or your phone.
>
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
. God, you tell me real adults believe that kind of crap. Someone else
is paying for your gas and the fact that you think you "need" to have
all you "want" suggests there are five other people who could do your
job, cheaper and better. I worked for the FCC for 29 years, I have
seen your type in operation. I lost a computer phone dialtone back in
December, reported it and got a "we'll be right on it." response. Saw
some t-phone trucks at our gate and asked them what was up. "We have
47 phones not getting dial tones and have no idea what is causing it."
Oh yes, I know you clowns.
Jack Linthicum
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:32:36 -0500, !Jones <h...@there.org> wrote this
> crap:
>
> >On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:37:11 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
> ><Horv...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>
> >>You live on five gallons a week. I'll use as
> >>much as I want.
>
> >Triple-beef patty (corn fed) cheeseburger and a super-size order of
> >fries, please... and a large shake... When was the last time you
> >walked a mile?
>
> >Jones
>
> Two days ago, I swam a mile.
>
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
My T-shirt says your T-shirt lies.
!Jones
<MAR...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>First, WE HAVE OIL IN AMERICA FOR ANOTHER 100 YEARS...
Yeah... the definition of an oil reserve is like the definition of
"ore"... it's economic. Highways in Colorado are built out of what,
today, would be gold ore because the price has increased.
If gasoline is selling for ten bucks a gallon, then it's worth
revisiting fields that were considered "tapped out" at a dollar per
gallon.
Jones
!Jones
<MAR...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> My point is that your great great grandfather did it and so can you.
>> It's in your future, so get used to it.
>>
>And the truth is out.....libs want us to REVERT back to the
>"good 'ol days", where we lived off the land, died from cuts and
>scrapes, no electricity or fossil fuels either.....that's one helluva
>a future.
Well, somewhat less would be a good thing, IMO. Americans, any
people, actually, are happiest when they're just a little bit hungry.
A diet won't be a bad thing.
Jones
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>>
>> Two days ago, I swam a mile.
>>
>> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
>> ultimate power in the universe."
>
>My T-shirt says your T-shirt lies.
My T-shirt just ate your T-shirt.
Hor...@Horvath.net
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>>
>>
>> I'm on call, dumbass. When you flush the toilet, think of all the
>> engineers, and workers who keep the water running, and the sewers
>> open. When you flip a switch, think of the engineers and workers who
>> keep the juice flowing.
>>
>> >Field Engineer for what?
>>
>> I'm a communications engineer. I keep your cable running, and the
>> internet humming. When I'm not working, your quality of life ends.
>>
>> You better pray that I get all the gas that I want, or you can't use
>> your computer, your cable, or your phone.
>>
>
>. God, you tell me real adults believe that kind of crap. Someone else
>is paying for your gas
That's correct. And that's the first intelligent thing you've said.
YOU pay for my gas.
>nd the fact that you think you "need" to have
>all you "want" suggests there are five other people who could do your
>job, cheaper and better.
Not unless they have my certificates, and licenses, dumbass.
> worked for the FCC for 29 years, I have
>seen your type in operation. I lost a computer phone dialtone back in
>December, reported it and got a "we'll be right on it." response. Saw
>some t-phone trucks at our gate and asked them what was up. "We have
>47 phones not getting dial tones and have no idea what is causing it."
>Oh yes, I know you clowns.
Did it get fixed? I thought so.
BTW even truck drivers need to get all the fuel they want, or you
will suffer. It's not that THEY need it, YOU need it.
Hor...@Horvath.net
Jack Linthicum
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:02:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
No. It never returned. Like I said at the first, learn to plan your
routes, maintain a schedule and don't go from A to Z just because
that's the schedule.
Mark Test
Mark Test
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 10:12:09 -0500, in alt.war.vietnam "Mark Test"
> <MAR...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> >First, WE HAVE OIL IN AMERICA FOR ANOTHER 100 YEARS...
>
> Yeah... the definition of an oil reserve is like the definition of
> "ore"... it's economic. Highways in Colorado are built out of what,
> today, would be gold ore because the price has increased.
>
are proven...and with oil over $100 a bbl, quite profitable now.
> If gasoline is selling for ten bucks a gallon, then it's worth
> revisiting fields that were considered "tapped out" at a dollar per
> gallon.
>
Correct, the market should determine how much we're willing to pay,
not some windbag politician.
Mark
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>>
>> >Oh yes, I know you clowns.
>>
>> Did it get fixed? I thought so.
>>
>> BTW even truck drivers need to get all the fuel they want, or you
>> will suffer. It's not that THEY need it, YOU need it.
>>
>No. It never returned. Like I said at the first, learn to plan your
>routes, maintain a schedule and don't go from A to Z just because
>that's the schedule.
YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT. I DON'T RUN ON A SCHEDULE. I GO WHERE I'M
SENT.
You need me to fix the luxuries that you use. You need me to fix the
crap that your business needs fixing. and that crap runs the whole
economy.
What part of that do you have trouble understanding?
Hor...@Horvath.net
!Jones
<MAR...@peoplepc.com> wrote:
>> Well, somewhat less would be a good thing, IMO. Americans, any
>> people, actually, are happiest when they're just a little bit hungry.
>> A diet won't be a bad thing.
>
>While the rest of the world is allowed to grow. Doesn't make much sense.
Let the rest of the world worry about the rest of the world. Very few
countries there are who consume at the rate we do and have for years.
Actually, what I'm suggesting is conservative, not liberal. I say
that we actually live within our means, balance the budget, and pay as
we go. We should stop our government from issuing any more T-notes,
period, unless you want China to own us lock, stock, and barrel in 15
years... and that'll hurt because we're used to lots of government
services and a growing deficit. That means the dreaded 'T' word
(taxes), of course... unless you think we can fund the war on
voluntary donations by patriots like yourself who support the troops.
Jones
Jack Linthicum
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:35:18 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
>
>
> >> >Oh yes, I know you clowns.
>
> >> Did it get fixed? I thought so.
>
> >> BTW even truck drivers need to get all the fuel they want, or you
> >> will suffer. It's not that THEY need it, YOU need it.
>
> >No. It never returned. Like I said at the first, learn to plan your
> >routes, maintain a schedule and don't go from A to Z just because
> >that's the schedule.
>
> YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT. I DON'T RUN ON A SCHEDULE. I GO WHERE I'M
> SENT.
>
> You need me to fix the luxuries that you use. You need me to fix the
> crap that your business needs fixing. and that crap runs the whole
> economy.
>
> What part of that do you have trouble understanding?
>
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
That you don't even know what "schedule" means.
Horvath
<jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote this crap:
>
>That you don't even know what "schedule" means.
I know what a schedule is. I don't run on a schedule. When power
goes out in your building, we'll schedule an engineer to look at it
two weeks from Wednesday, and he'll set a date for your repair.
Hor...@Horvath.net
Jack Linthicum
> On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 02:53:56 -0700 (PDT), Jack Linthicum
>
>
>
> >That you don't even know what "schedule" means.
>
> I know what a schedule is. I don't run on a schedule. When power
> goes out in your building, we'll schedule an engineer to look at it
> two weeks from Wednesday, and he'll set a date for your repair.
>
>
> My T-shirt says, "This shirt is the
> ultimate power in the universe."
Like I say you don't know what a schedule is. Try "I will do this
first, this other task next and then prioritize the rest according to
how far apart they are and when I get done with one and two."
Scheduling, prioritizing. If you don't do this yourself then someone
else does it for you.
!Jones
<Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>You are a fucking lunatic. You think I should get my customers to
>move? You are indeed insane.
No, you're missing my point completely. There isn't a nice simple
answer and, if there is an answer at all, it will take time to
implement. You innovate!
Do you recall Swiss watches? In '75, they owned the market. I dunno
what their share was; however, they completely dominated and had done
so for decades. Within three years, they were almost all finished...
they thought they could sit pat; the market shifted and left them in
the dustbin of history. Oh, you see an occasional Swiss watch as an
antique or an expensive status symbol; however, they're no longer a
significant player in that market.
The US can easily go the same route and quickly if we don't innovate.
You are an example of the fixed mind set... and the shifting tide of
world economics will render you obsolete if you're not dynamic; be
assured that your competitors are thinking hard about what they can do
to hasten your departure.
You say, "Drill!" The Swiss said, "Keep making fine analog watches,"
(which I happen to *like* much better than the digital chip on my
wrist), and your mind set will certainly go the way of the Swiss
watch.
So start thinking! You're obviously a man of some intelligence; the
seas of history are changing, so trim your sail... or whatever silly
metaphor you want to use, but to keep on keeping on as we were before
we got like we are now is a recipie for certain disaster.
Jones
Andrew Swallow
[snip]
>
> Get a graph of how oil prices have gone up. Big increase has been past
> year. So why, grasshopper, have prices gone up? They say China and
> India are using more. So in the past YEAR they built enough factories,
> cars all that crap to affect GLOBAL prices? Send me 30% of what you
> earn, I can spend it better than you can. You can't be trusted with
> money, the vote or a driver's license if you have that little common
> sense.
China is growing at 9% to 10% a year compound.
Over the last 5 years that is 5 * 10% = 50%
Doing it compound 100%*((100+10%)/100)**5 - 100% = 61%
During the Industrial Revolution is too Britain half a century to do that.
China has already taken over low cost manufacturing from Britain, USA,
Japan and possibly Korea. It is now big enough to disturb the world's
oil usage. The speculators have disturbed things but the demand is there.
Andrew Swallow
Jack Linthicum
It is projected that China will add 33 Million automobiles during
2008-2010.
Passenger car production in China is expected to cross 7 Million Units
in 2008.
Passenger car stock per 1000 population is likely to increase at a
CAGR of 19.8% from 2008 to 2012 in China.
Sales of commercial vehicle in the country are forecasted to grow at a
CAGR of around 5.5% during 2008-2010.
Based on the past performance, it is projected that passenger car
sales will cross 11 Million Units in 2010.
Sedan will be the preferred segment among the Chinese consumers during
the forecasted period.
http://www.just-auto.com/store/product.aspx?id=66215
Note the United States sales are at about 13-14 million per month in a
bad year.
Peter Skelton
Those are annual sales rates for the US Jack.
Peter Skelton
Jack Linthicum
I was looking for a number and didn't see the caveat.
"The initial reading of industrywide auto sales from Autodata showed
sales tumbled to a seasonally adjusted annual rate of 13.6 million
vehicles in the month, down from the 14.3 million pace in May, which
was also considered a weak month for sales, and 2 million cars and
light trucks below the year-ago pace. It was also the weakest sales
pace in 15 years."
frank
> I didn't know that you could buy oil futures on margin... I thought we
> fixed that after the 1929 thing? I suck at picking stocks.
>
> But there's an uncapped demand and a finite supply. I think I'm going
> to embrace Islam and immigrate to Saudi Arabia.
>
> Jones
Not only that, there is a naked short sell that the SEC just banned,
you don't even have to own the damn stock.
Problem was the big firms had more money than physical stock. America,
what a country.
Yeah, part of the problem, besides the Enron Loophole, a non
transparent market, speculators, is that you only need 5% down. Thank
Ken Lay for that. Him and Phil Gramm. Wanted to get energy away from
all the encumbrances of regulation. So its traded in UK and Dubai,
Brits are thinking of regulating it, good luck on the other sheets.
A lot of the stuff that protected the market was dismantled by the
GOP. Which was really, really stupid. Sometimes there are reasons for
regulations. A lot of bozos don't get that.
I'm not sure I buy the uncapped supply, been reading there is a lot of
stuff offshore, and deep offshore that they can get that they don't
have leases on yet. The US may want to extend its zone of influence to
Hawaii.
The big unknown is what is going to happen in the Arctic with a lot of
the ice melt from global warming, if sea lanes open and areas are
navigable, Sweden may build up to a military power again.
Raymond O'Hara
"Jack Linthicum" <jackli...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:703a20c7-ac8f-4771-a767->
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
I didn't catch the full drift but one of those talking heads on CNBC
(NBC's business channel) said that if the price gets below $131 for
any length of time the problem of delivery and payment become crucial.
margin call!
unfortunately pension fund managers have invested heavily in the oil market
and its regular folk who will get hurt.
Horvath
crap:
>On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 07:20:28 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
><Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>
>>You are a fucking lunatic. You think I should get my customers to
>>move? You are indeed insane.
>
>No, you're missing my point completely. There isn't a nice simple
>answer and, if there is an answer at all, it will take time to
>implement. You innovate!
No. You are missing my point entirely. Do you know what a fireman
is? Of course you do. Now then, think of me as the fireman of
communications. When things go wrong, I'm the one they call.
Here's how you would have it at the Fire Chief's morning meeting:
"OK men, we have a fire scheduled for 0830, which shouldn't take long,
then at 1000 we have another on Main Street, then a noon, we go to the
West End to put out another. The one on the South End will have to
wait for Monday, because we will have used up our allotted fuel. OK,
let's go."
Hor...@Horvath.net
!Jones
<Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>No. You are missing my point entirely. Do you know what a fireman
>is? Of course you do. Now then, think of me as the fireman of
>communications.
OK, OK... I didn't say you weren't important. I just said that you're
stuck in a last-century mentality. I don't have a clue how to solve
your problem; however, it might mean that you telnet into your routers
from home instead of racing to them with your siren wailing... just a
thought; that's how most people do it, though.
Look back at WWII for your inspiration. Remember, four gallons a
week; we have a war to win... I'm not saying it will be easy; however,
you can do it. And, if you can't, then maybe it's time to retire and
let some fresh minds look at the problem.
Jones
Horvath
crap:
>On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 19:07:35 -0400, in alt.war.vietnam Horvath
><Hor...@Horvath.nossepam.net> wrote:
>
>>No. You are missing my point entirely. Do you know what a fireman
>>is? Of course you do. Now then, think of me as the fireman of
>>communications.
>
>OK, OK... I didn't say you weren't important. I just said that you're
I don't consider myself important. What's important is keeping the
structure running is important.
>stuck in a last-century mentality. I don't have a clue how to solve
>your problem; however, it might mean that you telnet into your routers
>from home instead of racing to them with your siren wailing... just a
Come on. You must be smarter than that. You can't change out a power
supply while sitting at home.