Cryzal (Essilor) versus Duralens (LensCrafters)
Mark Freedman
These are two heavily-advertised antiscratch coatings available in
Toronto. Are they equally effective ? Any advantages / disadvantages ?
Also, does the lens material matter (I'm inclined to stick with CR39 -
don't care about the edge thickness, had problems with high-index glass
and don't want to risk high-index plastic). Prescription is -12.5 / -9.5.
--
I've had it with MyLife 1.0. When will MyLife 1.01 be out ?
Specs31
:-) second...the parent company who developed the coating that lenscrafter and
Silor use on those designs are one in the same, Essilor :-)
Next , when you say .........
">I'm inclined to stick with CR39 -
>don't care about the edge thickness, had problems with high-index glass
>and don't want to risk high-index plastic)
There are a number of options that fall under the heading of "high
index"...if you want a better lens and almost as high an abbe value as CR39,
PLUS an aspheric front surface check on Spectralite from Sola....a very good
mid index lens....
Another tip is that an aspheric front surface helps reduce that
minnification effect of the lens in your RX....also ask to see samples of an
anti reflective coating...in your case it would be a wise investment. It will
help reduce back side reflections from the steep curves of your lens and also
increase the amount of light actually traveling throught the lens...
Also a thing to remember is that when buying a "coated" lens with a
warrenty, it does not matter which material you buy if it has the warrenty
you'll get replacements :-)
Take the crazy deal Monsato came out with in the Diamonex lens...they
expected the retailer to sell a SV lens for around $200 !! and all it was was a
base poly carb lens with a xtra non abrasive surface....now if your heart was
set on a poly I could sell you a regular poly with a two side coat for around
$60 ..with the SAME warrenty!! If it scratches it get replaced.....(no wonder
Diamonex went belly up!! :-)
Its a buyers beware market now adays...
also while I'm at it.. if you opt for say the Spectralite it comes WITH A
factory UV coating so don't pay xtra for it!!.....
Jeff
John
Specs31 wrote:
> A couple of things to consider, first neither of the lens you listed are cr39
> :-) second...the parent company who developed the coating that lenscrafter and
> Silor use on those designs are one in the same, Essilor :-)
The duralens is a CR39 lens.. They do sell a polycarb with the "dura" coating and
call it a Featherwieght Plus.
>
>
> Next , when you say .........
> ">I'm inclined to stick with CR39 -
> >don't care about the edge thickness, had problems with high-index glass
> >and don't want to risk high-index plastic)
>
> There are a number of options that fall under the heading of "high
> index"...if you want a better lens and almost as high an abbe value as CR39,
> PLUS an aspheric front surface check on Spectralite from Sola....a very good
> mid index lens....
> Another tip is that an aspheric front surface helps reduce that
> minnification effect of the lens in your RX....
so you do let your customers know when you use this lens to cut a bi-concave they
are losing some of the benifit they are paying for with the Spectralite
(aspheric front curve).
> also ask to see samples of an
> anti reflective coating...in your case it would be a wise investment. It will
> help reduce back side reflections from the steep curves of your lens and also
> increase the amount of light actually traveling throught the lens...
Great advise, but you wouldn't advise your customer to have an anti reflective
coating placed over an "extra tough" scratch coating which they were charged a
premiem for?
>
>
> Also a thing to remember is that when buying a "coated" lens with a
> warrenty, it does not matter which material you buy if it has the warrenty
> you'll get replacements :-)
>
> Take the crazy deal Monsato came out with in the Diamonex lens...they
> expected the retailer to sell a SV lens for around $200 !! and all it was was a
> base poly carb lens with a xtra non abrasive surface....now if your heart was
> set on a poly I could sell you a regular poly with a two side coat for around
> $60 ..with the SAME warrenty!! If it scratches it get replaced.....(no wonder
> Diamonex went belly up!! :-)
>
> Its a buyers beware market now adays...
> also while I'm at it.. if you opt for say the Spectralite it comes WITH A
> factory UV coating so don't pay xtra for it!!.....
Is there a uv factory coating on the Spectralite lens or does the material itself
block the uv particles from passing?
>
> Jeff
Specs31
>they
>are losing some of the benifit they are paying for with the Spectralite
>(aspheric front curve).
I don't always cut a bi-con cave cut in the higher RX's...just the ones that
are -13 or so and above :-)
>Great advise, but you wouldn't advise your customer to have an anti
>reflective
>coating placed over an "extra tough" scratch coating which they were charged
>a
>premiem for?
It has no effect on the scratch coating in the least BUT the person ordering
the anti reflective coating needs to be sure and mark the appropriate boxes on
the order form, it makes a big diifrence to the people applying the coating...
These "high" scratch proof lens are just another ploy to get more money ,
specially in the chain stores where the so called "sales associates" get spiffs
and or bonuses....
Take a good example....I sell you three sets of lens...a cr39 with a
scratch policy , a duralens with the policy and a spectralite.....
Now the advantage of the three would be the thinner cut and lighter wght.
of the spectralite and the high abbe value but put that aside for now.....in my
store I sell a pair of SV with scratch coat (both sides) and UV for $45....now
the spectralite is $65 and the duralens is ??how much Lenscrafter is charging
now a days....BUT basically they are all under the same heading as far as the
warrenty is concerned...if they scratch I replace it...So what exactly is the
"big plus" of getting a very scratch resistant coating, when I would have the
same policy cover the three selections?? Is it worth the higher price? Not in
my book...thats just another "sales gimmick"
I guess I'm just one of those dying breeds who think you should give the
patient the best deal and the best option to get the best correction....and not
what gives me or ione of the staff that work for me the "biggest" bonus
Jeff
Jeff
John
Specs31 wrote:
> >so you do let your customers know when you use this lens to cut a bi-concave
> >they
> >are losing some of the benifit they are paying for with the Spectralite
> >(aspheric front curve).
>
> I don't always cut a bi-con cave cut in the higher RX's...just the ones that
> are -13 or so and above :-)
understood, but again, one of the benefits of spectralite (and reasons we charge
more for it) is the aspheric front curve. If you use the aspheric front curve for
the back and cut a concave curve into it, you eliminate the asphericity of the
lens. I concede this is a small point but would like some acknowledgment this is
the case.
>
>
>
> >Great advise, but you wouldn't advise your customer to have an anti
> >reflective
> >coating placed over an "extra tough" scratch coating which they were charged
> >a
> >premiem for?
>
> It has no effect on the scratch coating in the least BUT the person ordering
> the anti reflective coating needs to be sure and mark the appropriate boxes on
> the order form, it makes a big diifrence to the people applying the coating...
Agreed. My concern was that some might be selling the more expensive "Dura" type
coating and then selling an A/R coating which covers the "extra" scratch coating
the customer paid for. Should we even be charging for scratch coating on lenses we
send out for A/R?
>
>
> These "high" scratch proof lens are just another ploy to get more money ,
> specially in the chain stores where the so called "sales associates" get spiffs
> and or bonuses....
Agreed.
>
> Take a good example....I sell you three sets of lens...a cr39 with a
> scratch policy , a duralens with the policy and a spectralite.....
>
> Now the advantage of the three would be the thinner cut and lighter wght.
> of the spectralite and the high abbe value but put that aside for now.....in my
> store I sell a pair of SV with scratch coat (both sides) and UV for $45....now
> the spectralite is $65 and the duralens is ??how much Lenscrafter is charging
> now a days....BUT basically they are all under the same heading as far as the
> warrenty is concerned...if they scratch I replace it...So what exactly is the
> "big plus" of getting a very scratch resistant coating, when I would have the
> same policy cover the three selections?? Is it worth the higher price? Not in
> my book...thats just another "sales gimmick"
This is true assuming you provide an unconditional_free_ warranty covering
scratches. I had found that this type of warranty in which the customer pays
nothing for replacement lenses either left me frustrated because I had to replace
lenses which obviously were mistreated or abused by the customer or my customer
upset because they couldn't distinguish the difference between scratch resistant
and scratch "proof".
By charging a nominal fee for them to replace their lenses under the warranty
policy I found they were much more willing to live with small scratches and much
more willing to take care (follow cleaning procedures ,ect) of their lenses.
>
>
> I guess I'm just one of those dying breeds who think you should give the
> patient the best deal and the best option to get the best correction....and not
> what gives me or ione of the staff that work for me the "biggest" bonus
>
> Jeff
> Jeff
--john
SpecOPTICS
>the back and cut a concave curve into it, you eliminate the asphericity of
>the
>lens. I concede this is a small point but would like some acknowledgment this
>is
>the case.
that is so...BUT the main reason I use that lens (spectralite) is two fold
when cutting a con cave cut....1. the higher abbe value of the lens
2. the curve of the backside when you flip it and surface the front.
If you take say a easy lite from younger and the thin and lite from silor
(just two examples) and take a clock and measure the back curve you'll see the
difference I'm talking about.
>might be selling the more expensive "Dura" type
>coating and then selling an A/R coating which covers the "extra" scratch
>coating
>the customer paid for. Should we even be charging for scratch coating on
>lenses we
>send out for A/R?
Yes you should charge for the "scratch" coat on a lens EVEN if it is anti
reflected....the AR coat will be replaced for free (stripped and recoated ..if
it gets a defect...but the actual lens if scratched falls under a different
policy :-)
one has nothing to do with the other....the fact is that selling a
"scratched coated" lens is more like selling an insurance policy on the lens...
I know that the company that does my AR coating will redo a lens if I
supply the original invoice I use Reflection Free (owned by Essilor)
>This is true assuming you provide an unconditional_free_ warranty covering
>scratches. I had found that this type of warranty in which the customer pays
>nothing for replacement lenses either left me frustrated because I had to
>replace
>lenses which obviously were mistreated or abused by the customer or my
>customer
I always explain the policy in full detail..on what is covered and what is
not under the policy..as well as have the policy posted on the wall in the
retail store....My policy only covers the "basic" lens only....if the have any
add ons' (tints,polarized etc. etc.) they will be charged again for this....
It is a fair deal all the way around..if they scratch it then most are more
then willing to accept the cost of any of the add ons..any additional coatings
or if specail charges (such as three pc. mounts,facetes etc. )
Jeff (usually Specs31 but still slaving away at the office :-)
John
SpecOPTICS wrote:
> >If you use the aspheric front curve for
> >the back and cut a concave curve into it, you eliminate the asphericity of
> >the
> >lens. I concede this is a small point but would like some acknowledgment this
> >is
> >the case.
>
> that is so...BUT the main reason I use that lens (spectralite) is two fold
> when cutting a con cave cut....1. the higher abbe value of the lens
> 2. the curve of the backside when you flip it and surface the front.
>
> If you take say a easy lite from younger and the thin and lite from silor
> (just two examples) and take a clock and measure the back curve you'll see the
> difference I'm talking about.
Yes, the spec does save the step of having to resurface the side you will be using
as the front. Have you ever used a 10 base curve lens, surfaced the back to around
a -3. (more or less depending on total power) and then cut your back curves into
the front of the 10 base curve? If you have any carrier left you get the opposite
of a traditional minus lens, one that gets thinner towards the edge.
Another method for minus is to surface a_plus_ curve on the back of a spectralite
lens around +3 or so. You have to do some figuring with frame size and decentration
to decide how much of the back edges to cut away. Then fine & polish the plus
curve. Then come back and cut your power curve(s) onto the back. With practice you
can get a nice little 25-30mm bowl with an edge that gets thiner from the lip of
the bowl to the edge. Of course it helps to have a generator which can cut plus
curves and produce a lap.
>
> >might be selling the more expensive "Dura" type
> >coating and then selling an A/R coating which covers the "extra" scratch
> >coating
> >the customer paid for. Should we even be charging for scratch coating on
> >lenses we
> >send out for A/R?
>
> Yes you should charge for the "scratch" coat on a lens EVEN if it is anti
> reflected....the AR coat will be replaced for free (stripped and recoated ..if
> it gets a defect...but the actual lens if scratched falls under a different
> policy :-)
>
> one has nothing to do with the other....the fact is that selling a
> "scratched coated" lens is more like selling an insurance policy on the lens...
> I know that the company that does my AR coating will redo a lens if I
> supply the original invoice I use Reflection Free (owned by Essilor)
good point, I use them also. I was also expecting to be reminded how difficult it
can be to produce a quality pair of lenses which are not scratch coated. Does any
one still stock non scratch coated lenses in house any more?
--john
Specs31
>of
>the bowl to the edge. Of course it helps to have a generator which can cut
>plus
>curves and produce a lap.
Got both in the lab :-) I have an old 108 from coburn that I keep for a back
up and the range of that generator can't be beat...also real handy for doing
dive masks and all the crazy stuff my 2113's can't handle..and as for a tool
cutter...got the monolith of all tool cutters an old strausbaugh...I love that
thing...and even have the attachments to cut plus tools down to plano and upto
- 20..yikes..:-)
>good point, I use them also. I was also expecting to be reminded how
>difficult it
>can be to produce a quality pair of lenses which are not scratch coated. Does
>any
>one still stock non scratch coated lenses in house any more?
The only factory coayed lens I use in my wholesale lab are the high index and
PAL's...everything else is UNCOATED!...I have a coater and prefer to do them
all in house.....to many stores with labs and some wholesalers use the factory
coats but neglect to do a backside coat after grinding the lens...
I guess they figure that a front side coat is good enough and don't feel
like dropping $18,000 on a good quality coater is cost effective...but then
again look at a thin & lite that was ground and not backside coated after a few
monthes of cleaning!! LOL almost as bad as sending out an uncoated poly
carb...:-)
Jeff