TESTOSTERONE & CHRONIC PROSTATITIS
Don Carr
that it is accepted medical wisdom that chronic (and perhaps acute) disease
can cause testosterone production to be suppressed. It seemed to me that
this must be because either a) the body is simply malfunctioning during
sickness, or b) the body suppresses T. production as a defense mechanism.
That is, perhaps the body is smart enough to know that T. is dangerous stuff
to be floating around in the bloodstream of an individual suffering from an
illness of certain severity or duration.
Some homework indicates to me that researchers think that T. suppression
may indeed be a defense mechanism. I don't think that this issue has been
widely
studied, but a few people are looking at it. Why would T. be dangerous in
a sick person?? One doesn't know, but I think one could advance an
(admittedly vague) theory that since T. is linked to some types of prostate
cancer, and
estrogen is sometimes linked to breast cancer, that our sex hormones can be
dangerous substances when the body starts to malfunction. Like rocket fuel,
our sex hormones make us go go go, but perhaps they are flammable, so to
speak.
The above makes me wonder about the wisdom of prescribing T. supplements
for CP sufferers.
CP patients who suddenly feel 200 years old should perhaps have their
testosterone & free tetosterone levels checked. Low T. can slow you
down.
Of course, this issue may be better understood than I realize, and I may be
way off base. I'm not a medical person, just someone struggling with a
nasty disease.
Regards, Bruce Lockheart
Larr...@webtv.net
was taking DHEA(found in health food stores) about a month prior to
getting Acute Prostatitis. I took the DHEA as it seemed to give me more
energy but it also increased my production of semen which led to
prostate congestion & the inability to reach orgasm. Needless to say, I
immediately stopped taking it & tossed it into he garbage upon getting
Prostatitis & regret ever having taken the stuff in the first place. It
has turned my life into a living hell!!! Has anyone else ever taken this
stuff? Someone else posted in this forum about getting a shot of female
hormone which cured them of Prostatitis. Yes I do believe that Non
bacterial prostatitis is somehow linked to a hormone inbalance. I
produce very little semen now.
Doug Chism
natural testosterone/estrogen levels are changed in the body ( usually lower
testosterone, higher estrogen ). This is why users of steroids ( who do not
use raw testosterone ), often have less hair loss and less body hair,
despite gaining considerable muscle size. Sound fishy ? Pick up a
bodybuilder magazine and see how many of the 30-40 year old bodybuilders are
balding - almost none, despite being in an age group where approx 50% of the
population has some degree of hair loss. Steroid abusers tend to take so
much of the drugs that they are getting many times the natural hormone
levels of testosterone just from the drugs so they suffer the reverse of
this effect. It would surely be preferable to take anabolic steroids than to
take estrogen therapy - most people lose fat and gain muscle even in the
absence of excercise.
Anyhow just a theory - anybody in this NG ever use these drugs?
KDiodati@Sandpiper
of taking this product....it's seems that it is not a good idea.
http://www.cspinet.org/nah/dhea1.html
Larr...@webtv.net wrote in message
<5099-37...@newsd-144.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
I think that there is a connection between hormone production & CP. I
was taking DHEA(found in health food stores) about a month prior to
Doug Chism
no proof that its good for you. I dont believe in most supplements -
especially in the ones that claim to build muscle faster or increase
limbido. Those type of claims are targeteted towards a group of people who
want them to be true very badly, so little or no proof will convince them.
Give it to healthy people and it dosent do anything, give it to some 16 year
old wanna be bodybuilder and he is convinced it gave him faster muscle
gains.
KDiodati@Sandpiper wrote in message ...
KDiodati@Sandpiper
prostate is concerned, it may be a hazard. Here is an excerpt from the
link, which was taken in complete for, not edited, and is contiguous, as it
appeared on the site: [all inclusive within the brackets]
-begin article
[So DHEA may not be a miracle drug. But what's wrong with taking it anyway,
just to hedge your bets?
"Prostate cancer and endometrial cancer, for starters," says Richard Sprott
of the National Institute on Aging. "The testosterone and estrogen into
which our bodies convert DHEA can stimulate the growth of these cancers. We
don't know how much DHEA, in what formulation, for how long, and in which
people it's safe."
When estrogen was first used as hormone replacement therapy, Sprott points
out, "we saw an upswing in endometrial cancer cases until we learned to
combine the estrogen with progesterone. We don't know what the case is with
DHEA."
Arlene Morales of the University of California, San Diego, School of
Medicine, is co-author of the two largest DHEA trials. She has stopped
working with the hormone, in part because of its potential hazards.
"It's crazy that people can walk into a store and buy DHEA without a
prescription," she says. "The levels we were using, 50 to 100 milligrams a
day, produced higher-than-normal levels of male hormones in the women, and
we don't know what that does to women over long periods of time."
What's more, anything that increases testosterone levels could increase the
risk of prostate cancer in men, or could make a man's prostate cancer worse.
"Many men probably have prostate cancer and don't know it," says researcher
Arthur Schwartz of Temple University. "if they take DHEA, it could make the
cancer grow more quickly."]
-end of article
Doug Chism wrote in message <7el0ls$47i$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
Doug Chism
theory that it is good for you. Many things can cause cancer in theory -
lets see a trial, or even an experiment with rats where cancer increased
with a dose that is equivalent to 50 or 100mg in a human of this ( IMHO )
useless substance. Also take into account that drugs that cause cancer are
often used as cancer therapies ( in much higher doses ), who knows - DHEA
might be a cancer therapy - many things that are toxic to the body are such
drugs. Anyhow the basic point I am trying to make is that unless there is a
significant study ( N > 1000 ) on this stuff - who can say if its good or
bad for you. It is most certainly worthless, however there dosent seem to be
compelling evidence ( at this point ) that it is hazardous, besides what
doctors theorize could happen while on it.
KDiodati@Sandpiper wrote in message ...
KDiodati@Sandpiper
Doug Chism wrote in message <56qP2.90$b73.3582@paloalto-snr1>...
>significant study ( N > 1000 ) on this stuff - who can say if its good or
>bad for you. It is most certainly worthless, however there dosent seem to
be
>compelling evidence ( at this point ) that it is hazardous, besides what
I understand (although do not fully agree with) your point. I agree with
the idea that it is worthless, at least in an unregulated, non-prescribed
(no dosage level set based on patients case) over the counter form. The
notion or theory that it may actually be bad for you should in most cases
cause one to use prudency when consuming it. As you say, should it be
valuable in a higher dosage as a treatment for cancer, then this would
facilitate professional medical assistance, and the treatment would
undoubtedly be proprietary to the patient.
I don't mean to come across as someone who doesn't beleive in any
supplements or the opposite, someone that runs out and eats bran muffins to
cure cancer <g>. I take a daily vitamin, add'l vitamin E (as a blood
thinner), and in the last year, Saw Palmetto. I have never been fooled into
claims by health supplement/food makers or the latest fad diets to enrich
health, since it seems most of what we 'need' can come from a well balanced
diet. (Man can not live on steak alone, but he can try!<g>)
When it comes right down to it, I think that there are far too many
variables from person to person that a blanket or one size fits all
[non-prescribed] diet or *certain* supplements can be beneficial for all who
take them. I think their effectiveness (maybe where we agree here) is
relative to each person.
I was intrigued by the post concerning DHEA (increased semen output) and at
first glance it started to sound like a cure-all for 'what ailes ya'. I
decided to do some (minimal) research. What I turned up was, as you say
(agreed) in-conclusive to say the least. Hence, my idea (most notably for
this discussion where hormones are concerned) if something isn't proven to
help, why take it, since the risks (as noted in the article) *could*
outweigh the benefits.
Just to throw this out: I think there are some supplements that in natural
form do mimic or mirror the same benefits medicinal value of processed
medicine, like Saw Palmetto and others, but should they be also suspected of
being harmful, I say why risk it.
Thanks for responding to my message. We probably aren't that far apart on
this one, it's just that for me, where CP is concerned, I've tried to limit
my treatment to specific things that I can identify the results.
FYI, During the first month, Saw Palmetto only. Then the following month on
Bactrim, I stayed off Saw Palmetto. I noticed considerable difference in
urine flow. Now, even though Saw Palmetto isn't a cure for CP, it is
aleviating that particular symptom while I am trying (got to buy stock in
more drug companies!) other abx (currently Doxycycline). My doctor doesn't
seem to mind, and in fact suggested this last time that I continue it since
it seems to be helping. Keep in mind, that even since early on reading this
board, it seems that no one person has the same symptoms, and ergo, no one
form of treatment seems to work, which is extremely perplexing to Doctors, I
am sure. (I wonder if part of this is that since there is no standardize
treatment, most uro's use their own regiment, dosage and order of abx)
Also, the more water I drink, the more increase in semen output, to almost
normal. (I believe there is a maximum effectiveness cut off at 64 gallons a
day <g>. (water, not semen output that is...<g>)
Question: Why do some Doctors start with Cipro (or other) and then end up
on others, and vice a versa? My doctors theory is start with cheapest, work
your way up to the most expensive...his words<g> I am trying hard to trust
him, really I am...<g>
Doug Chism
KDiodati@Sandpiper wrote in message ...
>supplements or the opposite, someone that runs out and eats bran muffins to
>cure cancer <g>.
I eat 3 a day :)
Mainly to keep me regular and to keep my BM solid.
>Just to throw this out: I think there are some supplements that in natural
>form do mimic or mirror the same benefits medicinal value of processed
>medicine, like Saw Palmetto and others, but should they be also suspected
of
>being harmful, I say why risk it.
Yeah I dont take many supplements for this reason, and when I do I carefully
observe what might be happenning to my body - upset stomach, headaches,
changes in BM or urinary flow, to see if it might be doing something bad to
me. Some people are in such bad shape that they figure - what the hell try
anything, and for them it might actually make sense. I have another post
somewhere about some weird symptoms Ive been having since starting a protein
supplement. Im gonna check to see if it has DHEA in it tonight!
>Question: Why do some Doctors start with Cipro (or other) and then end up
>on others, and vice a versa? My doctors theory is start with cheapest,
work
>your way up to the most expensive...his words<g> I am trying hard to trust
>him, really I am...<g>
From what I understand, Cipro is a very well regarded antibiotic by most
doctors. It has a very low incidence of side effects, works on a broad range
of bacteria, is quite powerfull when given in moderate dosages, and is much
easier on the kidneys and liver than Sulfa based antibiotics - which are of
a similar strength.
Many doctors carefully evauluate the cost and effectiveness of drugs before
prescribing them. My doctor does not because he feels my health comes
first - and ive been on a rollercoaster the past year. That is one of the
reasons I see him. Doctors can get a bad reputation with health care
providers if they are always prescribing high cost drugs though. Its a
question of ethics I suppose. Did you know there is a numerical value to how
much 1 human life is worth? I forget the number - I read about it
somewhere - but its suprisingly low in the US compared to Europe and Canada.
KDiodati@Sandpiper
>providers if they are always prescribing high cost drugs though. Its a
>question of ethics I suppose. Did you know there is a numerical value to
how
>much 1 human life is worth? I forget the number - I read about it
>somewhere - but its suprisingly low in the US compared to Europe and
Canada.
I knew there was an actuarial table for what Insurance companies (IC's)
would risk or allow for treatment. I have heard some cases where they deny
Doctors the ability to reach an agreement with a patient to get payment for
services on tests IC's wouldn't pay for, by revoking their PPO status or
medicare not allowing them to take medicare patients for two years.
Granted, our healthcare is probably the best in the world here, no one goes
without emergency care, and we've got the best machines. But whether the
patient is well served is the subject for another debate entirely. I doubt
seriously that there *is* a perfect system.
I guess I was hard on my doctor, he does similar to what you say, evaluating
the cost vs side effects/effectivenss
I remember asking him about Allopurinol, since my original case (worthy of a
doctors care)of Prostatitis was 'brought' on (I tend to use this term
loosely now, since lately I am wondering if some men are just genetically
presupposed to this affliction vs 'getting it'.<g>) by holding in my urine.
When I started my company 12 years ago, I was non-stop, and never went to
the bathroom. I traveled daily, was in my car a lot and never stopped at
any public restrooms. No kidding, but after a while, your brain just
suppresses the urge. This went on, get this, for about a year, only voiding
once a day at most. I thought that Allopurinol (orig. saw it at
http://prostate.org/allopurinol.html ) might be a 'wonder-cure' for people
with uric acid reflux into the prostatic ducts and the ensuing bacterial
infection of the urinary tract, eventually fixing the prostate.
My Doctor was not enthused. When I mentioned the drug, he recoiled, and
acted if I had asked to be put on flaming gasoline covered elephants
administered orally by jet engine.
I wish there was something more factual or some case studies on this to take
into him without abiding his ridicule for surfing the internet and coming up
with a cure similar in his eyes to the above.
Does anyone have more data on Allopurinol or any case studies?
I am curious what the other doctors think of this and would appreciate any
comments.
David L. Casey, MD
Don Carr <dlc...@BIS.ON.CA> wrote in article
<1999040814...@home2.brant.net>...
> As one who suffers from both CP and very low testosterone, I've
discovered
> that it is accepted medical wisdom that chronic (and perhaps acute)
disease
> can cause testosterone production to be suppressed.
Please give us a little reference where this wisdom arose from...it is news
to me.
--
David L. Casey, MD
Denton Urology
Denton, Texas USA
This communication is intended to provide general information, and in no
way is a substitute for face-to-face medical care.
No implication of a doctor-patient relationship should be assumed by the
reader.
Sorry, but no questions or requests answered by private email.
David L. Casey, MD
apari...@compuserve.com (Alex Parisotti) wrote:
> During the period in which you were away from the newsgroup there was a lot of
> discussion on low libido, low fertility, testosterone, and zinc. Search these
> words on dejanews...
>
> As for CP causing low testosterone the reverse could also be true, i.e. that
low
> testosterone causes CP. Either way it may well go some way to explain the low
> fertility experienced by some sufferers, and the fact that CP symptoms,
libido,
> and fertility are all improved with zinc supplements (which raise testosterone
> levels).
>
I'll search the newsgroup when I can, but I'm not aware of any clinical
research that is published in peer-reviewed literature that states that there
is any evidence of low T causing CP, or CP causing low T. The latter
relationship seems irrational to me as T is made in the testicles, and the
negative and positive feedback mechanisms for this production don't involve
the prostate...they involve the testis, adrenal and hypothalamus/pituitary
gland...
Additionally, I have many men with CP who are quite fertile and have children
just as frequently as other men...
I'm not sure if Zinc raises T levels either...I'm not sure anyone knows
exactly what Zinc does to any great degree to be perfectly honest.
Again I'll try to do some research of the newsgroup discussion of this when I
can. Thanks for letting me know this was discussed in my absence.
David L. Casey, MD
Denton Urology
Denton, Texas USA
This communication is intended to provide general information, and in no way
is a substitute for face-to-face medical care. No implication of a
doctor-patient relationship should be assumed by the reader.
Sorry, but no questions or requests answered by private email.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
jwor...@cpcug.org
>
>
>Don Carr <dlc...@BIS.ON.CA> wrote in article
><1999040814...@home2.brant.net>...
>> As one who suffers from both CP and very low testosterone, I've
>discovered
>> that it is accepted medical wisdom that chronic (and perhaps acute)
>disease
>> can cause testosterone production to be suppressed.
>
>Please give us a little reference where this wisdom arose from...it is news
>to me.
>
>--
>David L. Casey, MD
Don and David,
I have not researched this in the library, but I believe it is true in my case.
As every aspect of sexual activity became painful to me, my testosterone
went down. Of course, I did not get it measured frequently, but I did
eventually, and it was low, and I had reasons to think it was low over
the years.
It might be sort of thankless to study this. You'd need longitudinal and
cross-sectional data. In my case, I feel that I was/am a very sexual
person in the head, but my libido, performance, and specifically the
level of this hormone suffered because my sex organ was/is sore.
Now that I'm less sore, even though not cured, I am a notch more normal
in the sex department.
Just using exogenous testosterone at a low level (patches) did little to
improve my life. When I was 35 (20 years ago), a urologist felt that
a jolt of testosterone, in the form some pills that are potentially toxic,
might help drain my prostate. This idea seemed to have merit in
my case, although I was married to a woman who didn't love me, so
the test was flawed. At that age and health status, the pills gave me
a real jolt of sexual energy.
I'm surprised this is never discussed as something to use with other
treatments.
Jim Worthey, jwor...@cpcug.org
Larr...@webtv.net
over production of Testosterone. When most of us were in the initial
acute stage, we had overbloated, congested prostates caused by too much
prostate fluid which in turn may have been caused by over production of
testosterone. We could not reach climax & release of the prostate fluids
due to impaction of the prostate gland. One poster here stated that his
Doctor gave him a shot of a female hormone which cured him of
prostatitis.
David L. Casey, MD
All right, I'll admit there's some literature about zinc and T...not that I
would have ever encountered it in that commonly read urological journal
"Nutrition"....
Abstract
Zinc status and serum testosterone levels of healthy adults.
Authors:
Prasad AS , Mantzoros CS , Beck FW , Hess JW , Brewer GJ
Department of Internal Medicine, Wayne State University School of Medicine,
Detroit,
Michigan, USA.
Nutrition 1996 May;12(5):344-8
Article Number: UI97029509
Abstract: Zinc deficiency is prevalent throughout the world, including the
USA. Severe and moderate deficiency of zinc is associated with hypogonadism
in men. However, the effect of marginal zinc deficiency on serum testosterone
concentration is not known. We studied the relationship between cellular zinc
concentrations and serum testosterone cross-sectionally in 40 normal men, 20
to 80 y of age. In four normal young men (27.5 +/- 0.5 y), we measured serum
testosterone before and during marginal zinc deficiency induced by
restricting dietary zinc intake. We also measured serum testosterone in nine
elderly men (64 +/- 9 y) who were marginally zinc deficient before and after
3 to 6 mo of supplementation with 459 mumol/ d oral zinc administered as zinc
gluconate. Serum testosterone concentrations were significantly correlated
with cellular zinc concentrations in the cross-sectional study (lymphocyte
zinc versus serum testosterone, r = 0.43, p = 0.006; granulocyte zinc versus
serum testosterone, r = 0.30, p = 0.03). Dietary zinc restriction in normal
young men was associated with a significant decrease in serum testosterone
concentrations after 20 weeks of zinc restriction (baseline versus post-zinc
restriction mean +/- SD, 39.9 +/- 7.1 versus 10.6 +/- 3.6 nmol/L,
respectively; p = 0.005). Zinc supplementation of marginally zinc-deficient
normal elderly men for six months resulted in an increase in serum
testosterone from 8.3 +/- 6.3 to 16.0 +/- 4.4 nmol/L (p = 0.02). We conclude
that zinc may play an important role in modulating serum testosterone levels
in normal men.
This still doesn't explain the T to CP connection supposed...all right I'm
going back to Medline to look for other stuff! Luckily I'm not an old dog,
and can learn new tricks...not that I feel I've learned anything that
germaine quite yet!
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