News: Sizing up omega-3
Gaines Not
Sizing up omega-3
By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
What should you eat to get enough omega-3 fatty acids in your diet for a healthy heart?
Try eating salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel, trout or swordfish two or three times a week. If you
can't stomach those, eat a tuna sandwich a couple of times a week with mayonnaise made with canola
oil or soybean oil.
Once a day, you might cook with one of those oils. Or make your salads with those oils or flaxseed
oil. Or for variety, try using walnuts or ground-up flaxseeds as a topping for your cereals, say
some of the top nutrition researchers on these fats. Or you could take fish-oil supplements.
Scientists have been singing the praises of omega-3 fatty acids for years now. Research has shown
that they reduce sudden death from heart attack probably by preventing fatal rhythm disturbances.
Two studies, out in April, revealed that people with no heart trouble can safeguard their hearts and
reduce their risk of sudden death by eating oily fish twice a week. Plus, other studies link omega-3
fatty acids to potential benefits for the treatment of everything from depression to arthritis to
colon inflammation.
Top Sirloin
<f...@phen.com> wrote:
>http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/health/diet/2002-05-01-omega3.htm
>
>Sizing up omega-3
>
>By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
>
>What should you eat to get enough omega-3 fatty acids in your diet for a healthy heart?
>
>Try eating salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel, trout or swordfish two or three times a week. If you
>can't stomach those, eat a tuna sandwich a couple of times a week with mayonnaise made with canola
>oil or soybean oil.
But all those are......meat!
That can't be good for you, can it?
>Scientists have been singing the praises of omega-3 fatty acids for years now. Research has shown
>that they reduce sudden death from heart attack probably by preventing fatal rhythm disturbances.
>Two studies, out in April, revealed that people with no heart trouble can safeguard their hearts and
>reduce their risk of sudden death by eating oily fish twice a week.
Sudden death? At least there's an upside to this whole vegan
thing.
>Plus, other studies link omega-3
>fatty acids to potential benefits for the treatment of everything from depression to arthritis to
>colon inflammation.
Colon inflammation sucks. Especially in a meeting.
-Scott Johnson
"In other words, you couldn't be such a prudish, squeamish eater if it
weren't for some slope-headed, hirsute, semi-sapient ancestor of ours
relishing the hot, stringy, bloody flesh of a freshly-caught and
mangled bonobo sliding down his throat, reaching back into the
steaming carcass in hopes of grabbing a piece of raw liver or other
savory nugget, cracking open the bones to get at the marrow, and
splitting the skull to slurp out the rich, fatty brain. I hope you
get the picture." -Bughunter in alt.tasteless
Lotus
Top Sirloin wrote:
*
Linoleic Acid (LA) and Alpha Linolenic Acid (ALA)
are converted by the body, to make other fatty acids,
including; Gamma Linolenic Acid, Eicosapentaenoic Acid
(EPA) and Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) [same as in fish],
We generally get an excess of Linoleic Acid from foods
containing vegetable oils, but very little of the ALA
(->omega3, unless oily fish is eaten). Good plant food
sources of ALA include flaxseed and walnuts. ..
#8 Nut Consumption, Cardiovascular Disease
Prevention and Longevity -- Joan Sabaté
'..
The protective effect of nuts on CHD has been found
in both men and women, adults, and the elderly,
Caucasion and African Americans. Importantly, nuts
have similar associations in both vegetarian and
non-vegetarian Adventists. Finally, the protective
effect of nut consumption on IHD is not offset by an
increased mortality from other causes. Unpublished
results from the California Adventist Health Study
indicates that frequency of nut consumption is inversely
related to all-cause mortality in African Americans and
the elderly. Thus, nut consumption may not only offer
protection against IHD, but also increase longevity.
..'
http://www.llu.edu/llu/nutrition/program/research1.htm
'Populations of vegetarians living in affluent countries
appear to enjoy unusually good health, characterized
by low rates of cancer, cardiovascular disease, and
total mortality. ..'
http://www.llu.edu/llu/nutrition/program/research1.htm
William Brink
Not" <f...@phen.com> wrote:
> http://www.usatoday.com/news/healthscience/health/diet/2002-05-01-omega3.htm
>
> Sizing up omega-3
>
> By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
As always, USA Today leads the way in good reporting (not!)
>
> What should you eat to get enough omega-3 fatty acids in your diet for a
healthy heart?
>
> Try eating salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel, trout or swordfish two
or three times a week. If you
> can't stomach those, eat a tuna sandwich a couple of times a week with
mayonnaise made with canola
> oil or soybean oil.
Neither oils contain N-3 lipids.
>
> Once a day, you might cook with one of those oils.
Worst advice possible.
--
Will Brink
Andrew P
effect... It's all good! :D
--
- Andrew
Remove NOSPAM from my address to e-mail me
-----------------------
"Gaines Not" <f...@phen.com> wrote in message
news:wegA8.4039$Lw2.41...@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
Hua Kul
> Linoleic Acid (LA) and Alpha Linolenic Acid (ALA)
> are converted by the body, to make other fatty acids,
> including; Gamma Linolenic Acid, Eicosapentaenoic Acid
> (EPA) and Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) [same as in fish],
> We generally get an excess of Linoleic Acid from foods
> containing vegetable oils, but very little of the ALA
> (->omega3, unless oily fish is eaten). Good plant food
> sources of ALA include flaxseed and walnuts. ..
>
about 3:1 rather than the 20:1 of corn fed beef, so I'm confident that
any study that shows good health effects of fish oils would show the
same thing for any meat raised on pasture. It also has much lower
total fat content than corn fed beef. Of its fat, only 10% is
saturated vs. 50% for corn fed, and it is 7% omega3 vs. 1% for corn
fed. Similar differences occur in all pasture fed livestock and their
eggs and milk. Grain oils are generally way too high in omega6 to be
healthy, although they are probably better than corn fed livestock
fats due to lower saturated fat content. Diseases linked to a high
omega6:omega3 ratio include: coronary heart disease, hypertension,
type 2 diabetes, renal disease, rheumatoid arthritis, ulcerative
colitis, Crohn disease, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease.
--Hua Kul
Top Sirloin
wbrink@*remove*earthlink.net (William Brink) wrote:
>Neither oils contain N-3 lipids.
The last time we had this discussion didn't you mention how
little ALA actually gets converted to EPA and DHA?
>>
>> Once a day, you might cook with one of those oils.
>
>Worst advice possible.
Even _I_ know that one!
Geez.
-Scott Johnson
"I knew vegetarian twits in college who thought eating
Cheetos made them morally fucking superior."
-Lyle McDonald
Steve
>
> Sizing up omega-3
>
> By Nanci Hellmich, USA TODAY
>
> What should you eat to get enough omega-3 fatty acids in your diet for a healthy heart?
>
> Try eating salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel, trout or swordfish two or three times a week. If you
> can't stomach those, eat a tuna sandwich a couple of times a week with mayonnaise made with canola
> oil or soybean oil.
>
> Once a day, you might cook with one of those oils. Or make your salads with those oils or flaxseed
> oil.
Udo's book claims that cooking destroys the omeg 3's. Has any
evidence to the contrary been found?
Steve
> Beef raised on pasture has about the same omega6:omega3 ratio as fish,
> about 3:1 rather than the 20:1 of corn fed beef, so I'm confident that
> any study that shows good health effects of fish oils would show the
> same thing for any meat raised on pasture.
That isn't the beef an ordinary person with a good income can buy in the USA.
The beef from an ordinary supermarket comes from cows raised in feed lots.
Much of the fish an oridnary person can buy has high levels of polloutants.
A tough choice.
KerryHB
rick etter
>
> g...@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
>
> > Beef raised on pasture has about the same omega6:omega3 ratio as fish,
> > about 3:1 rather than the 20:1 of corn fed beef, so I'm confident that
> > any study that shows good health effects of fish oils would show the
> > same thing for any meat raised on pasture.
>
> That isn't the beef an ordinary person with a good income can buy in the USA.
Why? It's what I buy, and it's far, far cheaper than any store-bought.
Guess you just don't want to look?
snippage..
Alex Brands
> > Try eating salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel, trout or swordfish two
> or three times a week. If you
> > can't stomach those, eat a tuna sandwich a couple of times a week with
> mayonnaise made with canola
> > oil or soybean oil.
>
> Neither oils contain N-3 lipids.
Canola and soybean both contain some n-3 lipids. Of course, they don't
have the best n3/n6 ratio, but they do have n-3.
Alex Brands
He says that baking is OK, frying is right out.
Alex Brands
I don't know about Steve, but I have looked, and all the grass fed beef I
can find is a lot more expensive than what I find in the store. Where do
you get yours, and how much is it?
Alex
Elzinator
>g...@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
>
>> Beef raised on pasture has about the same omega6:omega3 ratio as fish,
>> about 3:1 rather than the 20:1 of corn fed beef, so I'm confident that
>> any study that shows good health effects of fish oils would show the
>> same thing for any meat raised on pasture.
>
>That isn't the beef an ordinary person with a good income can buy in the USA.
Very true; it is generally more expensive and not commonly found in
the average supermarket.
>The beef from an ordinary supermarket comes from cows raised in feed lots.
Beef cows are 'fattened' in feed lots for several weeks with
corn-based feed. They are not 'raised' in feedlots their entire
lifespan.
>Much of the fish an oridnary person can buy has high levels of polloutants.
Not farm-raised fish, which is more prevalent these days. And the
degree of heavy metal residue in ocean-caught fish depends on where
they are caught. The entire water surface of the Earth is not polluted
equally.
>A tough choice.
Fish oil capsules work fine.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Lotus
Hua Kul wrote:
Not the only consideration by far though is it.
Food and Macronutrient Modification Diets as a Method for Controlling and
Treating Chronic Illnesses
This section is an overview of the theoretical basis and available research
on a variety of diets that are advocated for the treatment of chronic conditions
such as cancer, ~cardiovascular disease, and food allergies. Virtually all of
these dietary interventions emphasize the intake of much more produce (fresh
and freshly prepared vegetables, fruits, whole grains, and legumes), providing
high nutrient density while at the same time restricting such "empty" calories
as those provided by sweets, fats, and overprocessed foods. In these diets,
moreover, overall caloric intake tends to be lower than that of the general U.S.
population.
http://www.healthhelper.com/complementary/book_diet/alt2.htm
Lotus
Steve wrote:
An easy choice! Choose walnuts, linseeds (flaxseed), pumpkin seeds, *hemp seeds*.
Hua Kul
My guess is you buy a weanling calf and have a farmer raise him on
grass for a few months, them process and freeze him. I can't think of
any other way to get grass fed meat that's cheaper than what corn fed
costs in the supermarkets, unless you hunt and harvest wild game
(which is an excellent way to get good healthy meat).
--Hua Kul
rick etter
"Hua Kul" <g...@adres.nl> wrote in message
news:3da4c6e5.02050...@posting.google.com...
> rick etter <ret...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:<3CD2DB6B...@bright.net>...
> > Steve wrote:
> > >
> > > g...@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message
> > >
> > > > Beef raised on pasture has about the same omega6:omega3 ratio as
fish,
> > > > about 3:1 rather than the 20:1 of corn fed beef, so I'm confident
that
> > > > any study that shows good health effects of fish oils would show the
> > > > same thing for any meat raised on pasture.
> > >
> > > That isn't the beef an ordinary person with a good income can buy in
the USA.
> > ======================
> > Why? It's what I buy, and it's far, far cheaper than any store-bought.
> > Guess you just don't want to look?
>
> My guess is you buy a weanling calf and have a farmer raise him on
> grass for a few months, them process and freeze him.
No, I pick from his own fully grown animals, but the idea is the same. Only
I get to pick at the end what I want, not before it's grown.
I can't think of
> any other way to get grass fed meat that's cheaper than what corn fed
> costs in the supermarkets, unless you hunt and harvest wild game
> (which is an excellent way to get good healthy meat).
====================
Yes, it is. I don't hunt, but I do get venison from friends that do.
>
> --Hua Kul
Hua Kul
> On 3 May 2002 11:30:55 -0700, Steve wrote:
> >The beef from an ordinary supermarket comes from cows raised in feed lots.
>
> Beef cows are 'fattened' in feed lots for several weeks with
> corn-based feed. They are not 'raised' in feedlots their entire
> lifespan.
>
months of age. They then spend about 8-10 months in a pen eating a
corn based diet out of a trough until they reach a weight of about
1,200 pounds. A steer eating only grass takes 4 years to attain that
weight. Here's a 4-part article.
http://mercola.com/2002/apr/17/cattle1.htm
http://mercola.com/2002/apr/20/cattle2.htm
http://mercola.com/2002/apr/24/cattle3.htm
http://mercola.com/2002/apr/27/cattle4.htm
> >Much of the fish an oridnary person can buy has high levels of polloutants.
>
> Not farm-raised fish, which is more prevalent these days. And the
> degree of heavy metal residue in ocean-caught fish depends on where
> they are caught. The entire water surface of the Earth is not polluted
> equally.
But farm raised fish eat a grain based diet, skewing their fat profile
much more toward n-6. Mercury is cumulative in fish, so the longer it
lives and the higher up it is in the food chain the more contaminated
it will be. Yes, all ocean water is polluted equally, at least with
mercury. Most of the mercury in the oceans comes from coal burning,
which we've been doing for thousands of years, greatly more so since
the industrial revolution.
http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/25/mercury_fish.htm
>
> >A tough choice.
>
> Fish oil capsules work fine.
>
But we wouldn't need to choke down 20g of fish oil capsules a day if
we ate grass fed meat, eggs, and milk.
--Hua Kul
Hua Kul
> Is there any health benefit of omega 6?
Yes, we need it in proper proportion to omega3's, which is 1:1 or 2:1.
Health problems start to appear above a 4:1 ratio of n-6 to n-3. But
we get more than enough n-6 from our diets. The typical US diet is
anywhere from 20:1 to 50:1.
--Hua Kul
Dutch
> Elzinator <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote
> > On 3 May 2002 11:30:55 -0700, Steve wrote:
> > >The beef from an ordinary supermarket comes from cows raised in feed
lots.
> >
> > Beef cows are 'fattened' in feed lots for several weeks with
> > corn-based feed. They are not 'raised' in feedlots their entire
> > lifespan.
> >
> In general, calves go to feedlots right after being weaned, at about 6
> months of age. They then spend about 8-10 months in a pen eating a
> corn based diet out of a trough until they reach a weight of about
> 1,200 pounds. A steer eating only grass takes 4 years to attain that
> weight. Here's a 4-part article.
> http://mercola.com/2002/apr/17/cattle1.htm
> http://mercola.com/2002/apr/20/cattle2.htm
> http://mercola.com/2002/apr/24/cattle3.htm
> http://mercola.com/2002/apr/27/cattle4.htm
Very interesting story, if that's all true it sure blows the ~20/1
pasture/feedlot ratio myth.
[..]
Tom Morley
Farm raised fish typically does not have the good lipid profile of
wild fish. Besides the wild fish taste better.
--
Tom Morley |
mor...@math.gatech.edu | Same roads,
tmo...@bmtc.mindspring.com | Same rights,
http://www.math.gatech.edu/~morley | Same rules.
ICQ: 24798603 AIM: DocTDM |
Lotus
Hua Kul wrote:
Or nuts and seeds. Specifically walnuts and linseeds (flax).
Elzinator
>
>"Hua Kul" <g...@adres.nl> wrote in message
>news:3da4c6e5.02050...@posting.google.com...
>> rick etter <ret...@bright.net> wrote in message
>> > > > same thing for any meat raised on pasture.
>> > >
>> > > That isn't the beef an ordinary person with a good income can buy in
>the USA.
>> > ======================
>> > Why? It's what I buy, and it's far, far cheaper than any store-bought.
>> > Guess you just don't want to look?
>>
>> My guess is you buy a weanling calf and have a farmer raise him on
>> grass for a few months, them process and freeze him.
>==================
>No, I pick from his own fully grown animals, but the idea is the same. Only
>I get to pick at the end what I want, not before it's grown.
That does not support your previous implication that most average
Americans have the same opportunity to pick and buy meat on the hoof
(the term used for choosing a meat animal and the end products from
the animal). Just because you and others in some rural areas may have
that opportunity, do not chide those that don't.
The fact remains that most American consumers buy what is cheap and
available in their local supermarkets. I don't see folks in droves
going out to farms to buy their beef.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Steve
> > My guess is you buy a weanling calf and have a farmer raise him on
> > grass for a few months, them process and freeze him.
> ==================
> No, I pick from his own fully grown animals, but the idea is the same. Only
> I get to pick at the end what I want, not before it's grown.
Thats not a practical option for the majority of the US population.
Steve
Elzinator
>Elzinator <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message news:
>> >The beef from an ordinary supermarket comes from cows raised in feed lots.
>>
>> Beef cows are 'fattened' in feed lots for several weeks with
>> corn-based feed. They are not 'raised' in feedlots their entire
>> lifespan.
>>
>In general, calves go to feedlots right after being weaned, at about 6
>months of age. They then spend about 8-10 months in a pen eating a
>corn based diet out of a trough until they reach a weight of about
>1,200 pounds. A steer eating only grass takes 4 years to attain that
>weight. Here's a 4-part article.
Many operations keep their cows on range for a longer time before
sending them to feedlots. I know several who keep them on the range
for 8 months or so before they are shipped off to feedlots. And my
sister sends to slaughter grass and alfalfa fed steers for beef long
before 4 years. They don't weigh 1,200 lb, but they aren't as fat,
either.
>> >Much of the fish an oridnary person can buy has high levels of polloutants.
>>
>> Not farm-raised fish, which is more prevalent these days. And the
>> degree of heavy metal residue in ocean-caught fish depends on where
>> they are caught. The entire water surface of the Earth is not polluted
>> equally.
>
>But farm raised fish eat a grain based diet, skewing their fat profile
>much more toward n-6.
I'm aware of that. Alternative feeds for farm raising fish are being
developed that resemble that of their wild counterparts.
>Mercury is cumulative in fish, so the longer it
>lives and the higher up it is in the food chain the more contaminated
>it will be. Yes, all ocean water is polluted equally, at least with
>mercury.
The data does not support that.
>> Fish oil capsules work fine.
>>
>But we wouldn't need to choke down 20g of fish oil capsules a day if
>we ate grass fed meat, eggs, and milk.
Not if one must significantly reduce their ratio of n-6:n-3 fatty
acids and restrict saturated fats.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
rick etter
"Steve" <steves...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6f8cb8c9.02050...@posting.google.com...
See reply above. It's more available than you want to admit. makes it far
easier for you do continue to do nothing if you can convince yourself it
can't be done differently.
>
> Steve
Dutch
> "rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote
>
> > > My guess is you buy a weanling calf and have a farmer raise him on
> > > grass for a few months, them process and freeze him.
> > ==================
> > No, I pick from his own fully grown animals, but the idea is the same.
Only
> > I get to pick at the end what I want, not before it's grown.
>
> Thats not a practical option for the majority of the US population.
Why not? Because it's not as simple as buying from the local market? If
enough people demanded it, it would BE in the local market. "The majority of
the US population" are lazy and indifferent to animal suffering, that
includes suffering in ALL forms of agriculture and other activities they
benefit from.
Michael
Dutch <n...@email.com> wrote in message
news:ud803md...@news.supernews.com...
Very true, but a fair number of people agree that animals shouldn't be
treated poorly just because they will be become food in a few months. These
people seek out farmers like me that produce food in a ":kinder and gentler"
manner. Margins are great and meat tastes better.
I fixed an omelet the other day for a lady who complained about our prices
for eggs and cheese. She watched me cook it and still couldn't believe I
hadn't added some secret ingredient. I showed her the chicken tractors and
the cheese making area to prove that this was real food not some "plastic"
stuff made by the factory farms.
She drove off with about two hundred dollars worth eggs and cheese. She
intends to give most of it away as gifts. Let's see, for the cost of an
omelet I just had someone pay me to do my advertising.
Karen
> Yes, all ocean water is polluted equally, at least with
>mercury. Most of the mercury in the oceans comes from coal burning,
>which we've been doing for thousands of years, greatly more so since
>the industrial revolution.
>http://www.mercola.com/2001/apr/25/mercury_fish.htm
While marine mercury contamination is world-wide, I believe there are
some localized areas where concentrations are higher, due to runoff
from mining and industrial sources. These would generally be limited
to bays and estuaries and nearshore environments, however. Sediments
in these areas may also tend to be quite high in contaminants, so that
animal populations that live and feed within these sediments, and fish
that feed on them, can be pretty polluted. But the point you make is
important, that the marine environment, even distant from pollution
sources, is not as clean as we'd like it to be.
Elzinator
No, you are simply disillusioned and live within your own reality.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
rick etter
"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
No your are blided by a religious agenda. the meat is available, you just
just don't want to see it.
rick etter
Sorry, this reply was earlier, but I hit wrong button and it didn't go to
group. This is the post I was refering to later.
"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
news:qsj7duotvdurjnq9d...@4ax.com...
-----------------------------------
BS You use your urban existance as an excuse for not doing it. Except for
the largest cities, like NY, you probably need go no further than 100 miles
to find farms. Most areas you don't even have to go that far. Detroit,
Chigaco, Cinncinatti, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Dallas, Denver all
have farms well within that 100 mile range. Besides, it is available in
stores and even on-line and if 'reducing' your dependance on foods that
cause harm to animals is a priority, then the extra cost should be borne by
you willingly.
>
> The fact remains that most American consumers buy what is cheap and
> available in their local supermarkets. I don't see folks in droves
> going out to farms to buy their beef.
=====================
Yes, I also don't see the so-called 'ethical' vegans doing any different.
that's the point! Their foods are drenched in blood, but instead of doing
anything about it, they prefer to focus on what they think others should do.
It's far easier for them, that way they don't have to give up any of their
selfish conveniences.
>
>
> Elzi
>
> <insert whatever here>
John M. Williams
And what blinding "religious agenda" might that be?
--
John M. Williams jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com
------------ http://www.rustyiron.net --------------
------ Partnership for an Idiot-Free America -------
Steve
> But we wouldn't need to choke down 20g of fish oil capsules a day if
> we ate grass fed meat, eggs, and milk.
And that is not likely to happen.
It would drive up costs for dairy and livestock producers who already
operate on a tight profit margin in a very cut throat industry.
If it did happen it would significantly jack up the costs of these
foods for the average person.
If you are looking at the situation in terms of practicality the thing
to do is to look towards cheaper and more practical sources of omega
3's.
Flax oil is expensive ( not as much as living off of organically
raised meat ) and it can be supplemented algael oil to make up for the
omega 3's it is short on.
The algael oil is created in clean factories, free of the polloution
of wild fish. Flax seeds raised in good soils would be more a
practical soloution as well.
Steve
Don't forget pumpkin seeds. They have a large amount of omega 3's
and a good amount of zinc in them.......something else most people are
short on.
Chia sees also have omega 3's. Then there is rapeseeds( where canola
oil comes from ).
rick etter
"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:5t59du4qpsg7l967o...@4ax.com...
veganism, it's as bad as any. If it dares to upest a vegans rules, they
refuse to see it. Makes it easier that way for them to ignore their own
bloody footprints.
Gym Bob
roads and around the resorts). The meat is not white and light like our fish
but heavier like our pork. A much nicer, meatier taste with some substance
to it.
"Michael" <michael-nnooo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Z7YA8.5611$vT1.4...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
gps
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, Elzi is a vegan. I'd be careful if I were
you, I think she just might hunt you down and eat you for saying that.
ps
Elzinator
>
>"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
>> >"Steve" <steves...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> > I get to pick at the end what I want, not before it's grown.
>> >>
>> >> Thats not a practical option for the majority of the US population.
>> >====================
>> >See reply above. It's more available than you want to admit. makes it
>far
>> >easier for you do continue to do nothing if you can convince yourself it
>> >can't be done differently.
>>
>> No, you are simply disillusioned and live within your own reality.
>>
>==================================
>No your are blided by a religious agenda. the meat is available, you just
>just don't want to see it.
You dumb shit. I raised livestock (naturally grown) and I've been
involved in agriculture, both in academia, extension and business, for
more than twenty years. It's not a 'religious agenda', it is reality.
I repeat what Steve correctly wrote: "That's not a practical option
for the majority of the US population."
To think otherwise is living in a fantasy world.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Elzinator
>"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
>> >> grass for a few months, them process and freeze him.
>> >==================
>> >No, I pick from his own fully grown animals, but the idea is the same.
>Only
>> >I get to pick at the end what I want, not before it's grown.
>>
>> That does not support your previous implication that most average
>> Americans have the same opportunity to pick and buy meat on the hoof
>> (the term used for choosing a meat animal and the end products from
>> the animal). Just because you and others in some rural areas may have
>> that opportunity, do not chide those that don't.
>-----------------------------------
>BS You use your urban existance as an excuse for not doing it. Except for
>the largest cities, like NY, you probably need go no further than 100 miles
>to find farms. Most areas you don't even have to go that far. Detroit,
>Chigaco, Cinncinatti, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Dallas, Denver all
>have farms well within that 100 mile range. Besides, it is available in
>stores and even on-line and if 'reducing' your dependance on foods that
>cause harm to animals is a priority, then the extra cost should be borne by
>you willingly.
See my other post. Excuse for not doing what? You don't know my
background, so don't assume excuses to support your assertions.
The fact is that the average person:
* lives in urbanized areas,
* will not take the extra time and effort to visit a farm or ranch
more than 20 miles outside of metropolis areas to buy their meat,
* will not, and often *cannot* pay the elevated prices for naturally
grown, or range reared meat,
* does not have the freezer space to accommodate buying meat in
quantities as is often required,
* because the animals are not reared conventionally, the meat often
smells different. The uneducated consumer often interprets this as the
meat being 'bad' or will taste bad,
* is ignorant on how to cook naturally grown or range reared meat (and
it often requires different cooking techniques/temperatures),
* doesn't care, especially regarding your latter statement.
I've worked in agriculture for two decades and raised livestock for
consignment. Your skewed reality is based on your own experience and
moral beliefs.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Michael
Elzinator <> wrote in message > On Sat, 4 May 2002 21:33:28 -0400, rick
For the majority of the American consumers having to actually cook something
isn't a choice. Witness the expansion of already prepared foods in the
grocery stores. The option of naturally raised foods is there and growing
due to consumer demand plus the high margins it produces for the farmer.
Elzinator
Me? "Veganism"?
I just about lost my mouthfull of coffee on that one.
I am a devout carnivore that sometimes imbibes in a leafy salad or
two. You are more ignorant than I thought.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Elzinator
>rick etter wrote:
>>
>> "John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
>> just
>> > >just don't want to see it.
>> >
>> > And what blinding "religious agenda" might that be?
>> ================
>> veganism, it's as bad as any. If it dares to upest a vegans rules, they
>> refuse to see it. Makes it easier that way for them to ignore their own
>> bloody footprints.
>
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, Elzi is a vegan. I'd be careful if I were
>you, I think she just might hunt you down and eat you for saying that.
>ps
My loincloth is packed and my spear needs sharpening, but I think I
could manage. I've been learning new techniques since doing
necropsies.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
rick etter
"gps" <gst...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3CD4C08E...@ix.netcom.com...
Well, she comes off as just as ignorant as the vegan on usenet.
John Mercer
elzi...@planetclaire.not wrote on 5/5/02 7:13 AM:
That doesn't preclude the opportunity.
> * will not take the extra time and effort to visit a farm or ranch
> more than 20 miles outside of metropolis areas to buy their meat,
The option is still available. Many producers will ship, too.
> * will not, and often *cannot* pay the elevated prices for naturally
> grown, or range reared meat,
"Will not" doesn't preclude the opportunity. "Cannot" might.
> * does not have the freezer space to accommodate buying meat in
> quantities as is often required,
They have the opportunity to buy a freezer.
> * because the animals are not reared conventionally, the meat often
> smells different. The uneducated consumer often interprets this as the
> meat being 'bad' or will taste bad,
That doesn't preclude the opportunity.
> * is ignorant on how to cook naturally grown or range reared meat (and
> it often requires different cooking techniques/temperatures),
That doesn't either.
> * doesn't care, especially regarding your latter statement.
>
They still have the opportunity.
> I've worked in agriculture for two decades and raised livestock for
> consignment. Your skewed reality is based on your own experience and
> moral beliefs.
You have provided several points, only one of which might support your claim
that most average Americans do not have the opportunity to pick and buy meat
on the hoof. The rest miss the point completely.
rick etter
"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
Makes no difference.
> * will not take the extra time and effort to visit a farm or ranch
> more than 20 miles outside of metropolis areas to buy their meat,
=================
So? This in noway refutes my contention that grass-fed meat is available,
does it? That they, and you, are to lazy is not the point.
> * will not, and often *cannot* pay the elevated prices for naturally
> grown, or range reared meat,
==============
And, as I pointed out, it is often substantially cheaper, if you're willing
to look for it.
> * does not have the freezer space to accommodate buying meat in
> quantities as is often required,
================
Again, does not mean it is not available as you keep trying to say.
> * because the animals are not reared conventionally, the meat often
> smells different. The uneducated consumer often interprets this as the
> meat being 'bad' or will taste bad,
==================
Hey, if their as ignorant as the vegan loons are, then maybe there is no
help for them. I know that the blinded by the agenda AR/EVs are mostly lost
though.
> * is ignorant on how to cook naturally grown or range reared meat (and
> it often requires different cooking techniques/temperatures),
================
Utter nonsense. It gills on the bar-b exactly the same as any other meat.
Now you're just trying to talk yourself out of any extra 'work' to find or
use it. Kinda my point about AR/EVs, all they do is talk about what others
should do, that way they aren't inconvenienced by actually doing something.
> * doesn't care, especially regarding your latter statement.
>
> I've worked in agriculture for two decades and raised livestock for
> consignment. Your skewed reality is based on your own experience and
> moral beliefs.
===============
BS Your ignorance is all I see.
>
> Elzi
>
> <
----------------------------------------
"A computer without a Microsoft operating system is like a dog without
bricks tied to its head."
----------------------------------------
>
rick etter
"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
Then you truly must be living on marginal returns due to marketing
ignorance. I notice the problem, 'those that can do, those that can't
teach'. The market is out there, and growing. You can sit back and deny it
all you want, but the fact remains, just because most people are too lazy to
find it doesn't mean it isn't available. Again, there is practically
nowhere in the US that anyone is more than 100 miles from 'the country'.
John M. Williams
Forget it, Elzi. These retards are as unrealistic as the New Age
Lotus. Maybe they should be worshipping sacred cows.
And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
source other than animal rights activists ...
No, that might threaten their religious agenda.
Anna
hmmmmm: will not take the effort, uneducated, ignorant, doesn't care...
Yep - for the average uneducated, ignorant, lazy slob this is not an
option. So what? What does this have to do with the discussion?
For pretty much any consumer who gives a damn (which is the ones we were
talking about), it *is* an option. For example: many folks get together with a
couple friends or family members to buy a whole side. It is not that
difficult.
I live in the inner city. Every year, we get together and buy lamb,
pork and beef direct from the farmer and put it in our chestfreezer that
we got at a yardsale. I also hunt. I end up spending less money on groceries
than most. And I know what kind of meat I'm feeding my kids.
That it takes some minimal amount of effort and research, does not mean
the average person lacks the opportunity, it means they don't take advantage of
the opportunities that exist. Those are very different contentions...
rick etter
Really? Show any part of her post that disputes the fact that an
alternative meat is available. She doen't do it, maybe you have more
insight, eh? The fact that most people don't isn't relevent to the fact
that it is there, it only shows that most people don't have any problem with
the meat thay are currently eating.
>
> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
> source other than animal rights activists ...
=====================
LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct information
from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the classroom
and learn a little more about the marketplace.
>
> No, that might threaten their religious agenda.
==================
Sure, ARs have a serious problem with their 'rights' based agenda, but then,
Elzi ain't far behind in keeping her eyes closed to reality.
> --
>
> John M. Williams jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com
> ------------ http://www.rustyiron.net --------------
> ------ Partnership for an Idiot-Free America -------
------------------------
Hopefully you haven't signed up elzi. That would kinda defeat your purpose.
Gaines Not
I take five fish oil caps a day for 50 kcals which makes me an Estonian
Maybe I should up it to Icelander ratios..
GN
------------
fish intake, food balance sheets
http://apps.fao.org/lim500/wrap.pl?FoodBalanceSheet&Domain=FoodBalanceSheet&Language=english
This is my own calculation, maybe someone can double check..
United states in the middle, no data on inuit..
Per capita daily calorie intake from fish, as per WHO
ranked in decreasing order
Country PCAP/DAY CALORIES
Maldives 309.68
Japan 178.94
Kiribati 134.85
French Polynesia 126.21
Seychelles 120.79
Norway 120.07
Guyana 117.44
Iceland 114.81
Korea, Republic of 91.73
Malaysia 87.84
Portugal 87.17
Bermuda 79.06
Spain 78.26
Gabon 77.13
Solomon Islands 75.85
Barbados 69.15
Philippines 67.26
Finland 63.49
Senegal 62.07
Thailand 61.39
Sweden 54.85
Malta 54.21
Saint Kitts and Nevis 53.39
Estonia 50.05
Sao Tome and Principe 49.17
Dominica 49.12
Ghana 47.55
Congo, Republic of 47.46
Gambia 47.45
Denmark 46.64
Cape Verde 45.51
Developed Countries 45.45
Russian Federation 44.15
Sri Lanka 43.85
Greece 43.57
Comoros 43.42
United Arab Emirates 42.61
Peru 42.55
New Zealand 42.36
France 41.83
Antigua and Barbuda 41.77
Suriname 41.74
New Caledonia 41.69
Italy 41.33
Fiji Islands 40.97
Vanuatu 40.44
Belgium-Luxembourg 40.26
Grenada 40.21
Saint Lucia 39.33
Venezuela, Boliv Rep of 38.48
Indonesia 37.36
Netherlands Antilles 37.33
China 36.77
Europe 36.11
Cyprus 35.9
Canada 35.67
Brunei Darussalam 35.5
Poland 34.66
Chile 34.57
Netherlands 34.07
United Kingdom 33.91
Mauritius 33.85
Viet Nam 32.13
Togo 31.94
Oceania 31.45
Sierra Leone 31.38
Asia 31
Israel 30.51
Ireland 29.44
North America Developed 28.72
Papua New Guinea 28.62
Bahamas 28.58
Lithuania 28.2
World 27.98
United States of America 27.96
Germany 27.02
Australia 26.78
Switzerland 26.55
Saint Vincent/Grenadines 26.5
Panama 26.47
Myanmar 25.94
Latvia 25.71
Guinea 25.5
Korea, Dem People's Rep 25.48
North & Central America 24.48
Trinidad and Tobago 24.36
Developing Countries 23.06
Czech Republic 23.02
Jamaica 22.67
Mauritania 22.15
Low-Income Food Deficit 22.04
Austria 20.69
Mexico 20.36
Namibia 20.1
Tanzania, United Rep of 19.88
Egypt 18.92
Ukraine 18.92
Cuba 18.53
Côte d'Ivoire 18.02
Uruguay 17.68
Tunisia 17.46
Cameroon 17.27
South America 17.08
Central America 16.69
Bangladesh 16.64
Argentina 16.42
Uganda 16.31
Ecuador 16.22
Benin 16.13
Laos 15.72
Mali 15.62
Angola 15.13
Dominican Republic 14.72
Turkey 14.36
South Africa 14.23
Cambodia 13.93
Morocco 13.65
Madagascar 13.51
Yemen 13.44
Low-Income Countries 13.44
Kuwait 13.36
Africa 13.09
Zambia 12.71
Slovenia 12.69
Africa South of Sahara 12.53
Costa Rica 12.22
Botswana 11.74
Belize 11.74
Lebanon 11.74
Saudi Arabia 11.43
Colombia 11.27
Paraguay 10.98
Nigeria 10.87
Brazil 10.67
Libyan Arab Jamahiriya 10.54
Chad 10.17
Congo, Dem Republic of 9.85
Malawi 9.66
Kenya 9.13
Slovakia 8.98
Iran, Islamic Rep of 8.77
India 8.72
Hungary 8.26
Liberia 8.14
Algeria 7.93
Macedonia,The Fmr Yug Rp 7.57
Bulgaria 7.04
Central African Republic 6.66
Croatia 6.44
Kazakhstan 6.43
Honduras 6.31
Burundi 6.13
Jordan 5.51
Yugoslavia, Fed Rep of 4.9
Guinea-Bissau 4.83
Haiti 4.81
El Salvador 4.8
Djibouti 4.55
Georgia 4.22
Romania 4.12
Pakistan 3.99
Mozambique 3.98
Zimbabwe 3.96
Turkmenistan 3.77
Iraq 2.93
Sudan 2.93
Bolivia 2.81
Somalia 2.8
Nicaragua 2.74
Bosnia and Herzegovina 2.51
Burkina Faso 2.34
Guatemala 2.31
Syrian Arab Republic 2.04
Belarus 2.03
Nepal 1.97
Albania 1.92
Azerbaijan, Republic of 1.91
Armenia 1.84
Moldova, Republic of 1.54
Niger 1.53
Kyrgyzstan 0.97
Uzbekistan 0.95
Rwanda 0.91
Eritrea 0.4
Ethiopia 0.32
Swaziland 0.27
Mongolia 0.21
Tajikistan 0.11
Lesotho 0.04
gps
> > > veganism, it's as bad as any. If it dares to upest a vegans rules,
> they
> > > refuse to see it. Makes it easier that way for them to ignore their own
> > > bloody footprints.
> >
> > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, Elzi is a vegan. I'd be careful if I were
> > you, I think she just might hunt you down and eat you for saying that.
> > ps
> ===========================
> Well, she comes off as just as ignorant as the vegan on usenet.
And you come off as the poster child for the GED.
ps
rick etter
I guess you're as impaired as she when it comes to comprehension, eh?
Adam Fahy
> I guess you're as impaired as she when it comes to comprehension, eh?
That is a compliment.
-Adam
gps
>
> "gps" <gst...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:3CD581B6...@ix.netcom.com...
> > > rick etter wrote:
> > >
> > >> "gps" <gst...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> > > > > rick etter wrote:
> > > > > veganism, it's as bad as any. If it dares to upest a vegans rules,
> > > they
> > > > > refuse to see it. Makes it easier that way for them to ignore their
> own
> > > > > bloody footprints.
> > > >
> > > > BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, Elzi is a vegan. I'd be careful if I were
> > > > you, I think she just might hunt you down and eat you for saying that.
> > > > ps
> > > ===========================
> > > Well, she comes off as just as ignorant as the vegan on usenet.
> >
> > And you come off as the poster child for the GED.
> -----------------------
> I guess you're as impaired as she when it comes to comprehension, eh?
Of course. But can you understand the difference between possible and
practical?
ps
John M. Williams
>
>"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>>
>> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
>> source other than animal rights activists ...
>=====================
>LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct information
>from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the classroom
>and learn a little more about the marketplace.
Elzi owned and ran a sheep ranch in Oregon. What's your experience,
retard? The fact that you buy your beef out in the country? Moron.
>> No, that might threaten their religious agenda.
>==================
>Sure, ARs have a serious problem with their 'rights' based agenda, but then,
>Elzi ain't far behind in keeping her eyes closed to reality.
You wouldn't know reality if it walked up and shit on your shoes.
Lyle McDonald
>
> "rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote:
> >
> >"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
> >> source other than animal rights activists ...
> >=====================
> >LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct information
> >from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the classroom
> >and learn a little more about the marketplace.
>
> Elzi owned and ran a sheep ranch in Oregon. What's your experience,
> retard? The fact that you buy your beef out in the country? Moron.
Of course, if Elzi makes John mad, expect John to call her a retard, a
liar and defame her to high heaven.
right, John Boy?
How's your article coming, Fiddle?
Lyle
John M. Williams
It's awaiting the publication of your Booklet of Deception. It will
be much more fun if there are misrepresentations and concealments to
attack.
BTW, have you checked the stock on the company that tried to market
circadian-timed bromocriptine for obesity and Type II diabetes? Down
from $24.00/share to $0.99/share. Sure would suck to be one of their
investors. Of course, that doesn't include the withdrawal of Johnson
& Johnson's marketing support agreement or the three-million-dollar
settlement with Lousiana State University.
Elzinator
According to the evidence he portrays, I don't think he does.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Elzinator
>
>"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
>news:msladugigroho0fqi...@4ax.com...
>> >I've worked in agriculture for two decades and raised livestock for
>> >consignment. Your skewed reality is based on your own experience and
>> >moral beliefs.
>>
>> Forget it, Elzi. These retards are as unrealistic as the New Age
>> Lotus. Maybe they should be worshipping sacred cows.
>===================
>Really? Show any part of her post that disputes the fact that an
>alternative meat is available. She doen't do it, maybe you have more
>insight, eh?
Improve your reading comprehension. At no time did I deny that
alternative meat is available; I commented the same as Steve and will
repeat it here to make it easy for you:
"That's not a practical option for the majority of the US population."
>> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
>> source other than animal rights activists ...
>=====================
>LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct information
>from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the classroom
>and learn a little more about the marketplace.
I've been involved in agricultural industry probably longer than
you've been out of diapers; in the classroom, in the laboratory, in
the industry and on the ranches/farms. Your continuance to make
yourself look like a fool isn't helping your credibility.
>> No, that might threaten their religious agenda.
>==================
>Sure, ARs have a serious problem with their 'rights' based agenda, but then,
>Elzi ain't far behind in keeping her eyes closed to reality.
Whatever. No sense in further discourse with a fool.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Elzinator
>g...@adres.nl (Hua Kul) wrote in message news:
>
>> But we wouldn't need to choke down 20g of fish oil capsules a day if
>> we ate grass fed meat, eggs, and milk.
>
>
>And that is not likely to happen.
>
>It would drive up costs for dairy and livestock producers who already
>operate on a tight profit margin in a very cut throat industry.
>
>If it did happen it would significantly jack up the costs of these
>foods for the average person.
We also don't have the economical land resources available.
>If you are looking at the situation in terms of practicality the thing
>to do is to look towards cheaper and more practical sources of omega
>3's.
>
>Flax oil is expensive ( not as much as living off of organically
>raised meat ) and it can be supplemented algael oil to make up for the
>omega 3's it is short on.
>
>The algael oil is created in clean factories, free of the polloution
>of wild fish. Flax seeds raised in good soils would be more a
>practical soloution as well.
Some of the larger marine oil processors have added equipment that
removes heavy metals from the oils. It is expensive equipment, but the
demand is high for non-contaminated oils, the regulations are tighter
(especially in Europe, where the major processors are), and the profit
margin remains stable.
Residue-free fish oils will become more prevalent here in the States.
There are already a few sources.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Elzinator
>in article o5baducgktnmmp3dn...@4ax.com, Elzinator at
>> The fact is that the average person:
>> * lives in urbanized areas,
>
>That doesn't preclude the opportunity.
Opportunity is relative. Many people do not have that alternative,
despite that it is available.
>> * will not take the extra time and effort to visit a farm or ranch
>> more than 20 miles outside of metropolis areas to buy their meat,
>
>The option is still available. Many producers will ship, too.
Which increases the cost of the end product.
>> * will not, and often *cannot* pay the elevated prices for naturally
>> grown, or range reared meat,
>
>"Will not" doesn't preclude the opportunity. "Cannot" might.
See above.
>> * does not have the freezer space to accommodate buying meat in
>> quantities as is often required,
>
>They have the opportunity to buy a freezer.
Statistically, the majority of the US population lives in urban
environments, in rental housing, and buys cheap food. Most will not
opt to use disposable income to purchase a large freezer and most do
not have the room to accommodate one.
>> * because the animals are not reared conventionally, the meat often
>> smells different. The uneducated consumer often interprets this as the
>> meat being 'bad' or will taste bad,
>
>That doesn't preclude the opportunity.
see above.
>> * is ignorant on how to cook naturally grown or range reared meat (and
>> it often requires different cooking techniques/temperatures),
>
>That doesn't either.
Leaner meat has different cooking requirements than fatter meats. Ask
any chef.
>> * doesn't care, especially regarding your latter statement.
>>
>They still have the opportunity.
See above.
>> I've worked in agriculture for two decades and raised livestock for
>> consignment. Your skewed reality is based on your own experience and
>> moral beliefs.
>
>You have provided several points, only one of which might support your claim
>that most average Americans do not have the opportunity to pick and buy meat
>on the hoof. The rest miss the point completely.
See above.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
Elzinator
Again, your reading comprehension needs improving.
Elzi
<insert whatever here>
rick etter
"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:gl8bdukr18eolqifs...@4ax.com...
> "rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote:
> >
> >"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
> >> source other than animal rights activists ...
> >=====================
> >LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct information
> >from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the
classroom
> >and learn a little more about the marketplace.
>
> Elzi owned and ran a sheep ranch in Oregon. What's your experience,
> retard? The fact that you buy your beef out in the country? Moron.
Owned? As in past tense? Thought so, her, and apparently your knowledge of
maketing are based on ignorance. Care to try to refute what I have said, or
do you just want to throw names around.
>
> >> No, that might threaten their religious agenda.
> >==================
> >Sure, ARs have a serious problem with their 'rights' based agenda, but
then,
> >Elzi ain't far behind in keeping her eyes closed to reality.
>
> You wouldn't know reality if it walked up and shit on your shoes.
=======================
I see you have nothing to refute what I have stated. Guess I shouldn't
expect anything more since you seem to have your nose up elzis' butt.
rick etter
Can you? I stated that the meat is available, readily. She said it was
not, and has now gone on to consumer habits. Again, because most people do
not buy it, does not mean it is not readily available. What part do you
have a problem with?
rick etter
"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
> On Sun, 5 May 2002 13:47:00 -0400, rick etter wrote:
> >
> >"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
> >news:msladugigroho0fqi...@4ax.com...
>
> >> >I've worked in agriculture for two decades and raised livestock for
> >> >consignment. Your skewed reality is based on your own experience and
> >> >moral beliefs.
> >>
> >> Forget it, Elzi. These retards are as unrealistic as the New Age
> >> Lotus. Maybe they should be worshipping sacred cows.
> >===================
> >Really? Show any part of her post that disputes the fact that an
> >alternative meat is available. She doen't do it, maybe you have more
> >insight, eh?
>
> Improve your reading comprehension. At no time did I deny that
> alternative meat is available; I commented the same as Steve and will
> repeat it here to make it easy for you:
> "That's not a practical option for the majority of the US population."
But you're wrong. It is a practical alternative, you just don't have the
marketing wherewithall to make it work. You made all kinds of excuses for
people to not buy it, you never showed it's not 'practical'.
>
> >> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
> >> source other than animal rights activists ...
> >=====================
> >LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct information
> >from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the
classroom
> >and learn a little more about the marketplace.
>
> I've been involved in agricultural industry probably longer than
> you've been out of diapers; in the classroom, in the laboratory, in
> the industry and on the ranches/farms. Your continuance to make
> yourself look like a fool isn't helping your credibility.
=====================
It's your credibility that took the hit. You made comments you cannot back
up. tell me where you think that someone is further than 100 miles from
farm country.
>
>
> >> No, that might threaten their religious agenda.
> >==================
> >Sure, ARs have a serious problem with their 'rights' based agenda, but
then,
> >Elzi ain't far behind in keeping her eyes closed to reality.
>
> Whatever. No sense in further discourse with a fool.
============================
You should know. You haven't posted anything of substance yet.
rick etter
"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
No, your argument needs some revising. Tell me again where this meat is not
readily available to anyone that really wants it. Just because most
consumers don't, doesn't prove your statements to the contrary.
rick etter
"Elzinator" <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message
Nope, you are the one making changes to your statements. I claim the meat
is available to anyone that wants it. You first said it was not, then went
to 'most consumers' don't buy it whenyou couldn't substantiate your
stupidity.
Gym Bob
"rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:d9lB8.588$FL3....@cletus.bright.net...
> You first said it was not, then went
> to 'most consumers' don't buy it ***when you couldn't substantiate your
> stupidity.***
>
>
>
>
John M. Williams
>
>"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>> "rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
>> >> source other than animal rights activists ...
>> >=====================
>> >LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct information
>> >from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the
>> >classroom
>> >and learn a little more about the marketplace.
>>
>> Elzi owned and ran a sheep ranch in Oregon. What's your experience,
>> retard? The fact that you buy your beef out in the country? Moron.
>-----------------------
>Owned? As in past tense? Thought so, her, and apparently your knowledge of
>maketing are based on ignorance. Care to try to refute what I have said, or
>do you just want to throw names around.
I repeat, ignorant little ricky: What's your experience in livestock
farming, other than the fact that you've bought beef from a farmer
before? You claim that everyone can and should do this; the burden is
on you.
John M. Williams
>>
>> Again, your reading comprehension needs improving.
>===========================
>No, your argument needs some revising. Tell me again where this meat is not
>readily available to anyone that really wants it. Just because most
>consumers don't, doesn't prove your statements to the contrary.
You're a moron, ricky.
Robert Dorf
Actually, you said:
"<Pasture raised beef is> what I buy, and it's far, far cheaper than any
store-bought."
Elzi replied later with:
"<The fact that you have access to such beef> does not support your previous
implication that most average
Americans have the same opportunity to pick and buy meat on the hoof
(the term used for choosing a meat animal and the end products from
the animal). Just because you and others in some rural areas may have
that opportunity, do not chide those that don't.
The fact remains that most American consumers buy what is cheap and
available in their local supermarkets. I don't see folks in droves
going out to farms to buy their beef."
Elzi began her comments in this thread "talking about consumer buying
habits". She did suggest that such meat was not "readily available". Since
"readily" in the sense you are using it is synonymous with "easily", she was
correct; it would not be "easy" for the majority of urban Americans to buy
meat on the hoof, due to the transportation and storage issues involved.
Possible, but not easy.
In other words, your statement above that "<Pasture raised beef> is readily
available" was bullshit.
John M. Williams
> I stated that the meat is available, readily. She said it was
>not, and has now gone on to consumer habits. Again, because most people do
>not buy it, does not mean it is not readily available. What part do you
>have a problem with?
You're a moron, ricky.
Adam Fahy
> Elzi began her comments in this thread "talking about consumer buying
> habits". She did suggest that such meat was not "readily available". Since
> "readily" in the sense you are using it is synonymous with "easily", she was
> correct; it would not be "easy" for the majority of urban Americans to buy
> meat on the hoof, due to the transportation and storage issues involved.
> Possible, but not easy.
>
> In other words, your statement above that "<Pasture raised beef> is readily
> available" was bullshit.
No no, Rob... you see, it's readily available to anyone who wants to go
out of their way to get it.
Wait, where's that list of logical fallacies again?
-Adam
John M. Williams
>> >
>> >Of course. But can you understand the difference between possible and
>> >practical?
>>
>============================
>Nope, you are the one making changes to your statements. I claim the meat
>is available to anyone that wants it. You first said it was not, then went
>to 'most consumers' don't buy it whenyou couldn't substantiate your
>stupidity.
You're a moron, ricky.
Karen
>Flax oil is expensive ( not as much as living off of organically
>raised meat ) and it can be supplemented algael oil to make up for the
>omega 3's it is short on.
I buy flaxseed in bulk at the local big health store-type grocery
(similar to Wild Oats or Whole Foods) for a reasonable cost. It can
easily be ground in a cheapo electric coffee grinder (less than $10
US). I grind enough for a few days and keep the ground meal in the
refrigerator. The whole seeds are much less perishable. This seems
much more reasonable than using flaxseed oil, and you also get the
benefit of the fiber.
Ground flaxseed can be incorporated into many foods. I usually mix
mine into my oatmeal (after cooking, as the oil can be damaged by too
much heat). But you can also sprinkle it on salads and it is a great
thickener for smoothies.
Karen
wrote:
>> BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, Elzi is a vegan. I'd be careful if I were
>> you, I think she just might hunt you down and eat you for saying that.
>> ps
>===========================
>Well, she comes off as just as ignorant as the vegan on usenet.
Heheheh... that was definitely a monitor-needs-wiping-off moment. Elzi
as a vegan... LOL.
At least you're useful for an occasional chuckle, Rick.
Loon mallet time.
rick etter
"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote in message
news:3sobdus62o19t4tii...@4ax.com...
> "rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote:
> >
> >"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> >> "rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"John M. Williams" <jmwil...@enforcergraphics.f2s.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> And maybe the could learn something about livestock farming from a
> >> >> source other than animal rights activists ...
> >> >=====================
> >> >LOL Who would that be? I know we aren't getting the correct
information
> >> >from this supposed producer. I suggest she spent less time in the
> >> >classroom
> >> >and learn a little more about the marketplace.
> >>
> >> Elzi owned and ran a sheep ranch in Oregon. What's your experience,
> >> retard? The fact that you buy your beef out in the country? Moron.
> >-----------------------
> >Owned? As in past tense? Thought so, her, and apparently your knowledge
of
> >maketing are based on ignorance. Care to try to refute what I have said,
or
> >do you just want to throw names around.
>
> I repeat, ignorant little ricky: What's your experience in livestock
> farming, other than the fact that you've bought beef from a farmer
> before? You claim that everyone can and should do this; the burden is
> on you.
I knew you had problems, now I know for sure. Show a post where I have
stated everyone 'should' but any type of meat at all? You can't. I stated
that the meat is readily available, if you are too far up elzis butt to look
for yourself, then the problem is yours, other than a bad case of 'roids for
elzi.
rick etter
And you are what? You've done nothing to show if elzis post are correct. I
guess you can't, but I already knew that, ignorant brownnoser. Again, show
where my statement is false, but first, wipe your nose.
rick etter
"Robert Dorf" <rober...@japan.com> wrote in message
news:udbqf11...@news.supernews.com...
Yes, and it's a true statement. Just because one does not avail themselves
of the product, does not mean it is unavailable.
>
> Elzi replied later with:
> "<The fact that you have access to such beef> does not support your
previous
> implication that most average
> Americans have the same opportunity to pick and buy meat on the hoof
> (the term used for choosing a meat animal and the end products from
> the animal). Just because you and others in some rural areas may have
> that opportunity, do not chide those that don't.
>
> The fact remains that most American consumers buy what is cheap and
> available in their local supermarkets. I don't see folks in droves
> going out to farms to buy their beef."
>
> Elzi began her comments in this thread "talking about consumer buying
> habits". She did suggest that such meat was not "readily available".
Since
> "readily" in the sense you are using it is synonymous with "easily", she
was
> correct; it would not be "easy" for the majority of urban Americans to buy
> meat on the hoof, due to the transportation and storage issues involved.
> Possible, but not easy.
==================
It's still readily available, regardless of how you care to describe
consumer habits.
>
> In other words, your statement above that "<Pasture raised beef> is
readily
> available" was bullshit.
==================
No. it's not BS, the meat is readily available. But then, you aren't really
trying are you?
rick etter
Wow, you really are a brownnosing little sycophant, eh?
rick etter
This is it/ This is all you've got? LOL Thanks for playing. Don't forget
to collect your fine parting gifts, loser.
rick etter
"Adam Fahy" <mai...@myobligatory.com> wrote in message
news:3CD5EF0...@myobligatory.com...
Thanks for playing. Stop by when you have something. Just because someone
chooses not to buy a product does not make that product unavailable.
Robert Dorf
> >
> > Elzi began her comments in this thread "talking about consumer buying
> > habits". She did suggest that such meat was not "readily available".
> Since
> > "readily" in the sense you are using it is synonymous with "easily", she
> was
> > correct; it would not be "easy" for the majority of urban Americans to
buy
> > meat on the hoof, due to the transportation and storage issues involved.
> > Possible, but not easy.
> ==================
> It's still readily available, regardless of how you care to describe
> consumer habits.
>
> >
> > In other words, your statement above that "<Pasture raised beef> is
> readily
> > available" was bullshit.
> ==================
> No. it's not BS, the meat is readily available. But then, you aren't
really
> trying are you
read搏損y Pronunciation Key (rd-l, rdl-)
adv.
1. In a prompt, timely manner; promptly.
2. In a cooperative manner; willingly.
3. In a manner indicating or connoting ease; easily.
Are you (A) just trying to avoid admitting that you were wrong, (B)
operating on the assumption that what is easy for someone with a large
freezer and easy access to a farm is also easy for someone living in a small
urban apartment, or (C) trolling?
I'd bet on (A) or (C).
Robert Dorf
The disagreement is over your use of the term "readily available". Are you
backpedaling away from your use of that term (trying to shift it into an
argument over available vs. unavailable), or do you honestly not understand
what the word "readily" means?
John M. Williams
John M. Williams
You're a moron, ricky.
John M. Williams
David Cohen
I hear he may be a moron.
David
--
"This is the worse forum alive."- kev2112
>
John M. Williams
Hua Kul
> On 3 May 2002 19:26:59 -0700, Hua Kul wrote:
> >Elzinator <elzi...@planetclaire.not> wrote in message news:
> >> Fish oil capsules work fine.
> >>
> >But we wouldn't need to choke down 20g of fish oil capsules a day if
> >we ate grass fed meat, eggs, and milk.
>
> Not if one must significantly reduce their ratio of n-6:n-3 fatty
> acids...
To repeat, pasture raised livestock products have about the same low
n-6:n-3 ratio as wild fish.
> ...and restrict saturated fats.
To repeat, the fat from pasture fed beef is only about 10% saturated
and of lower quantity than the fat from corn fed beef, which is about
50% saturated.
--Hua Kul
John M. Williams
>> > aren't really trying are you
>>
>> read搏損y Pronunciation Key (rd-l, rdl-)
>> adv.
>> 1. In a prompt, timely manner; promptly.
>> 2. In a cooperative manner; willingly.
>> 3. In a manner indicating or connoting ease; easily.
>>
>> Are you (A) just trying to avoid admitting that you were wrong,
>> (B) operating on the assumption that what is easy for someone
>> with a large freezer and easy access to a farm is also easy
>> for someone living in a small urban apartment, or (C) trolling?
>>
>> I'd bet on (A) or (C).
>
>I hear he may be a moron.
Maybe that's because someone keeps repeating it. ;)
Of course, when another person refuses to respond to argumentation
based on fact and logic, and merely repeats over and over that he is
right and you are wrong, the only way to prevail is to beat him at his
own game.
Mike S. Medintz
Hash: SHA1
Elzinator wrote:
> The fact remains that most American consumers buy what is cheap and
> available in their local supermarkets. I don't see folks in droves
> going out to farms to buy their beef.
I don't see folks in droves going to gyms to actually do real exercises with
real weight. Nor do I see folks in droves turning off their televisions and
doing something both useful and worth remembering the following day.
Just because something is unpopular does not automagically mean it's not
feasable. It might just mean that a lot of people either don't know about
it or don't really care.
- --
Mike S. Medintz <med...@mindspring.com
"What good is Good when you don't make it to the dance?" -Bad Religion
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Anna
Um - It looked to me like this discussion started when someone said that it
was possible for those who gave a damn to get meat direct from the farmer to
avoid corporate-raised, hormone-laced beef.
Elzi disagreed because it was "not readily available". Her arguments
basically come down to: it's too much work for the average lazy, uneducated
American to go do it.
Since the average lazy, uneducated American wouldn't know a healthy meal
if it bit them, this argument doesn't carry alot of weight.
Yes - it's harder to do than buying whatever crap the local supermarket
is selling. It remains, however, an option available for the consumer who
gives a damn (which is who we were discussing in the first place).
Saying it's not an option because it's not easy and then shifting
the argument over to whether or not it's easy... well, Elzi, nice job of
palming that card...
Making healthy choices in our eating and exercise is neither "easy" nor
is it something the "average" consumer is doing. The option still exists.
Just my $.03 worth.
Anna
Lotus
Steve wrote:
> Lotus <lil...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
> > Or nuts and seeds. Specifically walnuts and linseeds (flax).
>
> Don't forget pumpkin seeds. They have a large amount of omega 3's
> and a good amount of zinc in them.......something else most people are
> short on.
True.
> Chia seeds also have omega 3's. Then there is rapeseeds( where canola
> oil comes from ).
I'm not familiar with Chia seeds. Will have to look that one up.
I do know that hemp seeds contain a balanced range of all essential
fatty acids though.
Gym Bob
calm down.
"rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:2ZmB8.603$FL3....@cletus.bright.net...
Gym Bob
"rick etter" <ret...@bright.net> wrote in message
news:w1nB8.605$FL3....@cletus.bright.net...
rick etter
Yes, I do. It is readily available. That you choose not to accept that
fact makes no difference to me. You're as closed minded as the vegans who
believe their lifestyle causes no death and suffering. None of the 7
supposed reason that elzi gave have anything to do with that availablility,
just consumer habits.