common cold: vitamin c and zinc do not affect
Wuzzy
had no better protection against common cold.
They should repeat this for garlic..
1: Epidemiology 2002 Jan;13(1):38-44
Intake of vitamin C and zinc and risk of common cold: a cohort study.
Takkouche B, Regueira-Mendez C, Garcia-Closas R, Figueiras A, Gestal-Otero JJ.
2Research Unit, University Hospital of the Canary Islands, La Laguna, Spain.
To examine whether intake of vitamin C and zinc is associated with a decrease in
the risk of a common cold, we analyzed data from a cohort study carried out in a
population of 4,272 faculty and staff from five Spanish universities.
Participants were 21-65 years of age, were full-time workers at those
universities, and did not have antecedents of asthma or chronic obstructive
pulmonary disease. Daily intake of vitamin C and zinc was assessed at baseline
by means of a food frequency questionnaire of which the validity and
reproducibility were determined in a sample of the population. Subjects were
traced for 1 year to detect episodes of common cold, the diagnosis of which was
based on symptoms and was validated by additional clinical signs. We detected
1,667 cases of common cold in 79,240 person-weeks of follow-up. Intake of
vitamin C and zinc was not related to the occurrence of common cold. Compared
with the first quartile of intake, women in the fourth quartile of vitamin C
intake showed an adjusted incidence rate ratio of 1.0 (95% CI = 0.7-1.3), and
for zinc intake this figure was 1.1 (95% CI = 0.8-1.5). The incidence rate
ratios for men in the fourth quartile were 1.1 (95% CI = 0.8-1.4) for vitamin C
and 1.3 (95% CI = 0.9-1.8) for zinc.
PMID: 11805584 [PubMed - in process]
bryher
Zinc acetate lozenges reduced the duration of cold symptoms,
especially cough and nasal discharge, and the severity of symptoms
in a recent randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial.
Within 24 hours of developing a cold, 48 patients were given either
zinc acetate or placebo lozenges and were asked to dissolve one
lozenge every 2 to 3 waking hours for as long as they experienced
symptoms. Each zinc lozenge contained 12.8 mg of zinc. Results
reveal that the average duration of symptoms was 4.5 days in the
zinc group and 8.1 days in the placebo group. In addition, cold
symptoms were 50 percent less severe in the zinc group after 4 days
of administration than in the control group. Dry mouth and
constipation were associated with zinc administration. The
researchers recommend that the short-term use of zinc acetate
lozenges may be of benefit to cold sufferers.
Source: Prasad AS, Fitzgerald JT, Bao B, Beck FWJ, Chandrasekar
PH.
Duration of symptoms and plasma cytokine levels in patients with
the
common cold treated with zinc acetate. A randomized,
double-blind,
placebo-controlled trial. Ann Intern Med. 2000;133(4):245-252.
"Wuzzy" <myp...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:d996c21a.02020...@posting.google.com...
Wuzzy
> In 4000 people followed around for one year those who intake more vitamin c
> had no better protection against common cold.
>
> They should repeat this for garlic..
>
> 1: Epidemiology 2002 Jan;13(1):38-44
For those of you that have downloaded the population dataset, you'll
note that hal20a is the code for the question "have you had the common
cold in the past 12 months"... you can run a query correlating serum
vitamin c with common cold...
garlic would be harder to verify i can't think of any marker, you
might get away with using the 24hr entry for garlic..
also they did skinfold thickness and sit-up capacity so thats another
unanswered question on sci.med.nutrition that we can answer..
Wuzzy
X-variable: VitamiNC
Y-Variable: episodes in past 12 month: cold or flu
Method: Direct
Summary
N R R-Square Std.Error
normal 1366 0.037 0.001428671 1.219797405
corrected 0.026392818 0.000696581
Equation
Coeff Conf. (ą) Std.Error T P
Constant 1.63228 0.135426146 0.069033469 23.64 0
VitamiNC -0.1133 0.159214282 0.081159469 -1.39 0.162652993
Analysis of variance
Sum of Squares Degrees of Freedom Mean Square F P
Regression 2.903641535 1 2.903641535 1.951495661 0.162652993
Residue 2029.503386 1364 1.487905708
Total 2032.407028 1365 1.488942878
basically a "nonsignificant" negative correlation
Matti Narkia
<d996c21a.02020...@posting.google.com> myp...@hotmail.com
(Wuzzy) wrote:
>In 4000 people followed around for one year those who intake more vitamin c
>had no better protection against common cold.
>
I think that most studies about the vitamin C and the incidence of
common cold have found that in general population vitamin C has little
or no effect on the incidence of common cold (for example Hemilä et al
[1], Douglas et al [3)]. However, reductions in incidence have been
observed in specific groups of people (Hemilä [9,12]). Also, vitamin C
seems to reduce slightly but significantly the duration of the symptoms
of common cold. This reduction seems to be dose dependent: daily doses
below 1 gram don't seem to have effect, and one study found that 6
grams/d reduced the duration of the symptoms more than 3 grams/d.
Apparently the supplementation may have to be continued as long as the
symptoms last, because recently Audera et al [2] found no effect when
vitamin C was taken only at onset of a cold and for the following two
days
References:
1: Hemila H, Kaprio J, Albanes D, Heinonen OP, Virtamo J.
Vitamin C, vitamin e, and Beta-carotene in relation to common cold
incidence in male smokers.
Epidemiology. 2002 Jan;13(1):32-7.
PMID: 11805583 [PubMed - in process]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11805583&dopt=Abstract
2: Audera C, Patulny RV, Sander BH, Douglas RM.
Mega-dose vitamin C in treatment of the common cold: a randomised
controlled trial.
Med J Aust. 2001 Oct 1;175(7):359-62.
PMID: 11700812 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11700812&dopt=Abstract
3: Douglas RM, Chalker EB, Treacy B.
Vitamin C for preventing and treating the common cold.
Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD000980. Review.
PMID: 10796569 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10796569&dopt=Abstract
4: Gorton HC, Jarvis K.
The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms
of virus-induced respiratory infections.
J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
PMID: 10543583 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10543583&dopt=Abstract
5: Hemila H, Douglas RM.
Vitamin C and acute respiratory infections.
Int J Tuberc Lung Dis. 1999 Sep;3(9):756-61. Review.
PMID: 10488881 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10488881&dopt=Abstract
6: Hemila H.
Vitamin C supplementation and common cold symptoms: factors affecting
the magnitude of the benefit.
Med Hypotheses. 1999 Feb;52(2):171-8. Review.
PMID: 10340298 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10340298&dopt=Abstract
7: Mossad SB.
Treatment of the common cold.
BMJ. 1998 Jul 4;317(7150):33-6. Review. No abstract available.
PMID: 9651268 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9651268&dopt=Abstract
http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/317/7150/33
8: Hemila H.
Vitamin C supplementation and the common cold--was Linus Pauling right
or wrong?
Int J Vitam Nutr Res. 1997;67(5):329-35. Review.
PMID: 9350474 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9350474&dopt=Abstract
9: Hemila H.
Vitamin C intake and susceptibility to the common cold.
Br J Nutr. 1997 Jan;77(1):59-72.
PMID: 9059230 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9059230&dopt=Abstract
10: Hemila H.
Vitamin C supplementation and common cold symptoms: problems with
inaccurate reviews.
Nutrition. 1996 Nov-Dec;12(11-12):804-9. Review.
PMID: 8974108 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8974108&dopt=Abstract
11: Hemila H.
Vitamin C, the placebo effect, and the common cold: a case study of how
preconceptions influence the analysis of results.
J Clin Epidemiol. 1996 Oct;49(10):1079-84; discussion 1085, 1087.
PMID: 8826986 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8826986&dopt=Abstract
12: Hemila H.
Vitamin C and common cold incidence: a review of studies with subjects
under heavy physical stress.
Int J Sports Med. 1996 Jul;17(5):379-83.
PMID: 8858411 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8858411&dopt=Abstract
13: Hemila H, Herman ZS.
Vitamin C and the common cold: a retrospective analysis of Chalmers'
review.
J Am Coll Nutr. 1995 Apr;14(2):116-23.
PMID: 7790685 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7790685&dopt=Abstract
14: Hemila H.
Does vitamin C alleviate the symptoms of the common cold?--a review of
current evidence.
Scand J Infect Dis. 1994;26(1):1-6. Review.
PMID: 8191227 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8191227&dopt=Abstract
15: Hemila H.
Vitamin C and the common cold.
Br J Nutr. 1992 Jan;67(1):3-16. Review.
PMID: 1547201 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1547201&dopt=Abstract
16: Carr AB, Einstein R, Lai LY, Martin NG, Starmer GA.
Vitamin C and the common cold: using identical twins as controls.
Med J Aust. 1981 Oct 17;2(8):411-2.
PMID: 7033746 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7033746&dopt=Abstract
17: Baird IM, Hughes RE, Wilson HK, Davies JE, Howard AN. R
The effects of ascorbic acid and flavonoids on the occurrence of
symptoms normally associated with the common cold.
Am J Clin Nutr. 1979 Aug;32(8):1686-90.
PMID: 463806 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=463806&dopt=Abstract
18: Carr AB, Einstein R, Lai LY, Martin NG, Starmer GA.
Vitamin C and the common cold: a second MZ Cotwin control study.
Acta Genet Med Gemellol (Roma). 1981;30(4):249-55.
PMID: 7048833 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7048833&dopt=Abstract
19: Chalmers TC.
Effects of ascorbic acid on the common cold. An evaluation of the
evidence.
Am J Med. 1975 Apr;58(4):532-6. Review.
PMID: 1092164 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1092164&dopt=Abstract
20: Karlowski TR, Chalmers TC, Frenkel LD, Kapikian AZ, Lewis TL, Lynch
JM.
Ascorbic acid for the common cold. A prophylactic and therapeutic trial.
JAMA. 1975 Mar 10;231(10):1038-42.
PMID: 163386 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=163386&dopt=Abstract
21: Lewis TL, Karlowski TR, Kapikian AZ, Lynch JM, Shaffer GW, George
DA.
A controlled clinical trial of ascorbic acid for the common cold.
Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1975 Sep 30;258:505-12. No abstract available.
PMID: 1106302 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1106302&dopt=Abstract
-Matti Narkia
Wuzzy
out people and ppl who are deficient in vitamin c..
John 'the Man'
news:mamc6uo15cuh8dggm...@4ax.com...
> I think that most studies about the vitamin C and the incidence of
> common cold have found that in general population vitamin C has little
> or no effect on the incidence of common cold (for example Hemilä et al
My comments in my other post sent to you, today, apply.
My objective in replying to a Science Geek is to highlight the
differences between my style and yours.
You start off by making some inane beginning remarks and then try to
impress by drowning everyone with too many citations. :-(
Clearly Science Geeks both on these science ngs and those doing the
actual research don't know how to interpret the data. You guys don't
know what you are looking at because you don't personally use Vitamin
C to prevent colds. In other words, you guys are *not* familiar with
the subject matter.
I went through your list of citations and stopped looking after I got
two hits.
Douglas RM, Chalker EB, Treacy B.
Vitamin C for preventing and treating the common cold.
http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/ab000980.htm
Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 2000;(2):CD000980. Review.
PMID: 10796569
"Objectives: The objective of this review was to answer the following
two questions:
...
(2) Does taking vitamin C in high doses at the onset of a cold have a
therapeutic effect?"
Objective 2 provides the scope that actually works. When you test for
this objective, Vitamin C will always be found to work.
"Main results: ... However in trials that tested vitamin C after cold
symptoms occurred, there was some evidence that a large dose produced
greater benefits than lower doses."
This study went lame, however, when it came to actually testing for
objective 2. But, their conclusion did support objective 2. :-)
The next citation gets the testing right. :-)
Gorton HC, Jarvis K.
The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the
symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections.
J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
PMID: 10543583
"METHOD: ... whereas those in the test population reporting symptoms
were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of Vitamin C for the first 6
hours and then 3 times daily thereafter.."
This is precisely the CORRECT method for using Vitamin C to prevent
colds.
"CONCLUSION: Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or after the
appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and prevented the
symptoms in the test population compared with the control group."
Correct application of knowledge will always result in correct
results. :-)
Once you got a full blown cold, however, Zinc lozenges are more
effective at relieving cold symptoms than Vitamin C is.
I, therefore, conclude that ALL Science Geeks are totally hopeless at
properly interpreting data and doing nutrition research. You guys
wouldn't recognize the truth, if it hit you over the head with a
hammer. You guys excel at getting lost in the details. :-)
--
John Gohde,
Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a Science!
The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of the
biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 16 webpages,
Nutrition (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/) is now with more
documentation and sharper terminology than ever before.
Wuzzy
> unanswered question on sci.med.nutrition that we can answer..
So many things to do, also the 24hr recall included questions about
breakfast lunch and dinner, i'm currently running tests to see diurnal
energy distribution as well as breakdown by macronutrients and coffee
and tea..
DRPMNC
Meal name code
Meal name code See note
01 Breakfast
02 Brunch
03 Lunch
04 Snack/beverage
05 Dinner/supper
06 Infant feeding
07 Extended consumption
08 Other
cruiser
juice or eating many oranges, may be helpful, but consuming the fruit or
juice in quantity may be counter productive, since Oranges and their juice
have a poor arginine/lysine balance.
Thus, you would be providing the virus with its favourite food source,
arginine, without sufficient lysine to compensate, which would result in the
promotion of viral reproduction, and make the cold worse.
Cruiser
"John 'the Man'" <De...@JustSayNo.com> wrote in message
news:58tc6ugedklhgkfh7...@4ax.com...
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> Snobs be gone!
>
> Once upon a time, our fellow Matti Narkia
> rambled on about "Re: common cold: vitamin c and zinc do not
> affect."
> Our champion being bored in sci.med.nutrition retorts, thusly ...
>
> >Gorton HC, Jarvis K.
> >The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the
> >symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections.
>
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_u
ids=10543583&dopt=Abstract
> >J Manipulative Physiol Ther. 1999 Oct;22(8):530-3.
> >PMID: 10543583
>
> >"METHOD: ... whereas those in the test population reporting symptoms
> >were treated with hourly doses of 1000 mg of Vitamin C for the first 6
> >hours and then 3 times daily thereafter.."
>
> >This is precisely the CORRECT method for using Vitamin C to prevent
> >colds.
>
> One more thing Matti,
>
> Thanks for doing the legwork finding a citation that would make a fine
> addition to my website. :-)
>
> Too, bad you don't possess the wisdom to recognize a gem when you see
> it.
David
That's how much Klenner, Cathcart, etc. claim is necessary to treat a viral
infection.
DB
Steve Harris
news:iMfa8.2180$kB3.69...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
COMMENT:
Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally tried it. Good
luck.
It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody who says they
took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days with no side effects, no matter
how sick they were and with what, is either a goddamned liar, or else
somebody who has no idea of what's going on with their rear end.
And yes, I think that includes Linus Pauling. I think that on this matter he
was incapable of finding his rear end with both hands, in fact. Cathcart,
too.
SBH
--
I welcome Email from strangers with the minimal cleverness to fix my address
(it's an open-book test). I strongly recommend recipients of unsolicited
bulk Email ad spam use "http://combat.uxn.com" to get the true corporate
name of the last ISP address on the viewsource header, then forward message
& headers to "abuse@[offendingISP]."
David
Well, they say you should titrate the dosage based on bowel tolerance.
Supposedly it goes up during infection. And I don't make recomendations.
Even most doctors aren't qualified to do that.
DB
Martin Banschbach
> "David" <wire...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:iMfa8.2180$kB3.69...@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> > Six grams a day? Try 100-200 grams in the form of sodium ascorbate per
> day.
> > That's how much Klenner, Cathcart, etc. claim is necessary to treat a
> viral
> > infection.
>
> COMMENT:
>
> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally tried it. Good
> luck.
>
> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody who says they
> took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days with no side effects, no matter
> how sick they were and with what, is either a goddamned liar, or else
> somebody who has no idea of what's going on with their rear end.
>
> And yes, I think that includes Linus Pauling. I think that on this matter he
> was incapable of finding his rear end with both hands, in fact. Cathcart,
> too.
>
> SBH
Right on the money Steve. If you want to spend all day on the pot
try taking enough C to completely saturate gut absorption and then
have fun with the "runs" all day.
Pauling at least had enough nerve cells left to say back off
when you reach the diarrhea stage. Toward the end though he
may not have had enough mental function left to follow his own
advice, he was convinced that high dose C would cure his prostate
cancer. It didn't and it finally got him.
But if I make it to 92, I may not care how I do it either but
telling everyone else to do what I do is just plain crazy (if
you ask me).
No animal that still forms C would have ever done to it's
body what Pauling wanted us to do all of the time.
David
Dude, the theory is that infection proportionally increases your bowel
tolerance to ascorbate. And guess what? Vitamin C can be injected IV too.
Doh.
DB
beni kafe
> Don't recommend this to anybody unless YOU have personally tried it. Good
> luck.
>
> It's time somebody said this. Here's my assertion: anybody who says they
> took 100 g of vitamin C for a couple of days with no side effects, no matter
> how sick they were and with what, is either a goddamned liar, or else
> somebody who has no idea of what's going on with their rear end.
I ,for example, am doing this all the time. I take 13 grams a day when
I am well and 30-50 grams a day when I rarely get Flu, and after 2
days I am completely well again. I am doing this regime for 3 years
and feels great.I also recommend this to other people and see how they
recover quickly and suffer less.
I think that when someone is talking about Dr. Klenner and Cathcart
who treated and cured tens of thousand of patients one should talk.
whith a little respect about them
beni.
Steve Harris
"beni kafe" <be...@elisra.com> wrote in message
news:33753bc6.0202...@posting.google.com...
I said 100. Can you read?
Martin Banschbach
> Dude, the theory is that infection proportionally increases your bowel
> tolerance to ascorbate. And guess what? Vitamin C can be injected IV too.
> Doh.
>
> DB
David, you are correct IV C has been used in both AIDS patients and
cancer patients. C is required for interferon synthesis so it did
seem reasonable to try IV C. Guess what, it did not work, no
significant effect on AIDS or cancer in humans given very high
C directly into the blood.
C is absorbed in the gut using both passive and active transport.
Passive does increase during an infection but active does not.
Pauling based most of his calculations on what humans would form
using mice which have the highest known C synthetic rate in their
liver. Heck, rats move their lymph much faster than we do.
One thing that Pauling and I agreed on was that humans would have
produced large amounts of C from the liver during an infection
but I think his estimate was way too high.
David, if you understand how the *human* immune system works, you
quickly learn why C is not the magic bullet.
David
I appreciate you taking the time to respond. The things I am talking about
aren't based on theory but the supposed real-world results of these
physicians in treating viral infections with *extremely* high doses of C. I
wouldn't expect this to have any significant effect on cancer or hiv
though. I'm not saying these guys were right just that we need to do some
studies where we give people *hundreds* of grams of ascorbate per day
during a serious viral infection and see what happens. No C is not the
magic bullet. That would more likely be lipoic acid and compounds like
ALT-711.
DB
daNOE...@wi.rr.com
taur...@pacbell.net wrote:
> I have been taking 1 gram daily for 20 years with no problems. I have never had
> the flu and if I get a cold it never lasts longer than two hours.
>
> Oa