nutritional support for heart in endurance exercise
Alex
training (from a back-of-the-pack half marathoner to a decent
marathoner). Do you have nutritional recommendations for minimizing
the risk of surprises from the heart?
My current knowledge of recommendations is as follows:
Essential stuff:
- Total Mg intake at 400-500 mg
(a real must according to
http://www.execpc.com/~magnesum/conseq.html)
- omega 3-rich fish twice a week
- Cu at RDA
Good stuff:
- co-Q10 at 100 mg
- alpha-lipoic acid (100 mg) + acetyl-l-carnitine (500-1000 mg)
- GLA (from a borage oil capsule) once or twice a week.
Of course, that on top of a healthy, Mediterranean-type diet with
little sat fat, almost 0 trans fat, and carbs from the low-GI range
(except in the 6-hr time window after a long (> 2 hr) run, for the
last point).
TIA,
Alex
Michael Roose
|Hi folks. I'm planning to significantly increase my endurance
|training (from a back-of-the-pack half marathoner to a decent
|marathoner). Do you have nutritional recommendations for minimizing
|the risk of surprises from the heart?
I'm going to leave the nutritional recommendations to others but I
have a question. Do you expect that there will be a correlation to
increasing your running and heart related issues? have you considered
strength training as a means to increase both your endurance
performance and sprinting speed?
Willy Wouters
Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirts ;-)
Looking at your suggested supplements, I have a number of
"from the hip" comments. I may decide to comment further,
since this subject is of great interest to me as well.
(a) Firstly ... Where's your multi?
All the exotic stuff is OK, but this should be on top
of a decent base
(b) Make sure to increase your protein intake.
One of the effects of distance running/training
is increased susceptibility to colds, etc.
Immune system suppression caused by a frequent
over-reliance on carbs (and sugars - as in energy bars)
and a consequent under consumption of prots.
You *are* remodeling your body when
you train like that. This *does* increase
your protein turnover.
(c) Do not skimp on the fats either. This is, of course,
dependent on your current fat % etc., but you must
realize that endurance = fat burning. When in doubt
about needing extra calories, go for the oils/nuts/
shellfish etc. rather than for another energy bar
Note: The problem with (b) and (c) comes when an endurance
athlete (runner/bicylist) *stops* being an athlete,
yet continues eating the same way. The effect is
often "balloonistic" ;-)
(d) Minerals ... In me experience of elite athletes as well
as lotsa dedicated amateur endurance guys & dolls (runners
and tri-athletes), be not afraid to consume adequate
quantities of beer (preferably dark - specialty brewery)
after your training/races. Good vitamins, has *some* carbs,
chromium, and ethanol to help you relax/restore balance
(e) Electrolytes ... Since summer is coming up, and depending
of course on where you live, do not neglect an adequate
NaCl (Salt) intake. I am not kidding. A lot of runners
get into trouble (cramps, light headedness, nausea, etc.)
due to electrolyte imbalances (read shortage) after or even
during long runs in hot weather. Gatorade will *not* do!
I used to live and work in the Middle East where daytime
temperatures of 110-120 are not abnormal (yes, in the
shade). Just being outside, would create dehydration headaches
(not withstanding adequate, nay copious water consumption).
Taking a couple of salt tablets in the morning
alleviates that problem.
Presently, I live and run in Houston, TX. Whenever the
outside temp is over 80, and I am running over 120 minutes,
I still take a salt tablet before my run.
(f) Water ... After the ramblings in (e), water .. water ..
water .. Make sure to have adequate salt in hot weather
though. Hypo-natremia (too much H2O, too little sodium)
is *not* an imaginary condition.
(e) Vit C, Vit E & Selenium. When training, I'd take extra
in addition to what's typically in a multi.
Cheers & Good Luck ... Willy
Paul Rogers
wrote:
This is a controversial recommendation. The body tends to balance
excretion and conservation of salt and most marathoners do not seem to
need to take salt tablets. Standard Gatorade/Powerade drinks are
usually enough support for most runners.
I run and train in the sub-tropics and it is not common to take salt
tablets -- although I understand some triathletes favour salt tablets
for the longer triathlons.
>(f) Water ... After the ramblings in (e), water .. water ..
> water .. Make sure to have adequate salt in hot weather
> though. Hypo-natremia (too much H2O, too little sodium)
> is *not* an imaginary condition.
Homeostasis generally takes care of different salt intakes.
Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug use may enhance the possibility
of hyponatraemia. One study found hyponatraemia at about 0.3% in
ultramarathons and triathlons.
>(e) Vit C, Vit E & Selenium. When training, I'd take extra
> in addition to what's typically in a multi.
Vitamins C and E supplements may prevent free radical damage, muscle
soreness and lipid peroxidation in general. The best evidence seems
to be for vitamin E.
Note that there may be a nice balance between the prooxidant and
antioxidant needs of athletes, so megadoses may not be appropriate.
[For Alex] The magnesium is probably important as the RDI is not
reached in many people. Whether supplements beyond this intake make
much difference is not certain. The same for zinc in athletes. Not
much evidence that supplements make much difference.
Paul R
Michael Roose
Rogers) wrote:
|Note that there may be a nice balance between the prooxidant and
|antioxidant needs of athletes, so megadoses may not be appropriate.
When you use the word "athlete" throughout this post, do you mean
aerobic or anaerobic or both?
Paul Rogers
Athletes in general, but endurance athletes probably produce more ROS
because of the amount of oxygen processed. Free radical generation is
not all bad, but, as I understand it, vitamin C and carotenes can be
prooxidant at higher intakes -- even though antioxidant at lower
doses. What these thresholds are, is anyone's guess . . .
From what I have seen, vitamin E supplementation could be a safe bet
for antioxidant protection in athletes. There is even some evidence
that it assists performance at high altitudes in mountain climbers.
Cheers, Paul R
Michael Roose
Rogers) wrote:
|Athletes in general, but endurance athletes probably produce more ROS
|because of the amount of oxygen processed. Free radical generation is
|not all bad, but, as I understand it, vitamin C and carotenes can be
|prooxidant at higher intakes -- even though antioxidant at lower
|doses. What these thresholds are, is anyone's guess . . .
Yep and there must be a counterbalance between FR production and the
diminishing, biochemical effects.
|From what I have seen, vitamin E supplementation could be a safe bet
|for antioxidant protection in athletes. There is even some evidence
|that it assists performance at high altitudes in mountain climbers.
Any help with that info would be appreciated.
watchman
If I recall .. it can be found with a search of 'altitude sickness and
tocopherol' .. in Medline ..
or
hyperviscosity and tocopherol .. can't quite remember exactly how I read
it and have it saved ..
Who loves ya.
Tom
--
Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman
Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html
Alex
> On 22 May 2002 17:03:09 -0700, AlexV...@yahoo.com (Alex) wrote:
>
> |Hi folks. I'm planning to significantly increase my endurance
> |training (from a back-of-the-pack half marathoner to a decent
> |marathoner). Do you have nutritional recommendations for minimizing
> |the risk of surprises from the heart?
>
> I'm going to leave the nutritional recommendations to others but I
> have a question. Do you expect that there will be a correlation to
> increasing your running and heart related issues?
Such a correlation should be expected for increasing smoking, not
running! (BTW, I don't smoke.) I.e. while smoking a cigarette will
not kill you, but it leaves you with a greater risk afterward, the
case with running is exactly the opposite. A session of high
intensity (or duration) training places a demand on your heart, and
there is a (hopefully very small) risk of demanding too much,
particularly if you feel very motivated psychologically and do not
give up when your body starts telling you to. Now, if nothing
happened, then your risk is smaller than before.
have you considered
> strength training as a means to increase both your endurance
> performance and sprinting speed?
Strengh training is a good thing in itself for all, including
marathoners and triathletes, and I do it. I don't think it has much
effect on endurance, thouh. As for sprinting speed, I frankly don't
care much about it. (OK, this is starting to be appropriate for
rec.running.)
Alex
> Hi Alex,
> Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirts ;-)
> Looking at your suggested supplements, I have a number of
> "from the hip" comments. I may decide to comment further,
> since this subject is of great interest to me as well.
Hi, Willy. You've taken some time for this. Thanks for your
contribution.
> (a) Firstly ... Where's your multi?
> All the exotic stuff is OK, but this should be on top
> of a decent base
In my first post I did not mean to detail _all_ my
nutrition/supplementation strategy, only the items relevant to the
subject. But let's talk about multis anyway. My view is that, with a
careful food selection (most probably including brewer's yeast for the
B's), you can live without a multi. And, if you do choose to take
one, you have to mind the following issues:
- we males have to take only iron-free multis
- even then, it's best to _not_ take any antioxidant supplement in the
same meal (basically, vit C tends to form nasty compounds with Cu and
probably Mn)
Having said that, I take a multi two or three times a week. One-a-Day
50+.
> (b) Make sure to increase your protein intake.
> One of the effects of distance running/training
> is increased susceptibility to colds, etc.
> Immune system suppression caused by a frequent
> over-reliance on carbs (and sugars - as in energy bars)
> and a consequent under consumption of prots.
> You *are* remodeling your body when
> you train like that. This *does* increase
> your protein turnover.
Agree. That's in line with Barry Sears' message that adequate prot
intake is the best way to help the immune system.
> (c) Do not skimp on the fats either. This is, of course,
> dependent on your current fat % etc., but you must
> realize that endurance = fat burning. When in doubt
> about needing extra calories, go for the oils/nuts/
> shellfish etc. rather than for another energy bar
>
Agree again. BTW, do you know that the ingestion of a high-GI snack
shortly before the event partially prevents fatty acid utilization
during it? You might be interested to read this paper:
http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/37/d0000000200000073.cfm?pid=38
> Note: The problem with (b) and (c) comes when an endurance
> athlete (runner/bicylist) *stops* being an athlete,
> yet continues eating the same way. The effect is
> often "balloonistic" ;-)
>
> (d) Minerals ... In me experience of elite athletes as well
> as lotsa dedicated amateur endurance guys & dolls (runners
> and tri-athletes), be not afraid to consume adequate
> quantities of beer (preferably dark - specialty brewery)
> after your training/races. Good vitamins, has *some* carbs,
> chromium, and ethanol to help you relax/restore balance
Really surprising info. Thanks, but I'll skip it. I reserve my
alcohol allowance for red wine with meals. And no alcohol before a
long event.
Besides, I think that after a _long_ session, beer is not the best
choice. For one thing, alcohol is diuretic. And you should go for
something with higher carb content and high-GI at that. Add some
brewer's yeast and you get the chromium and lotsa amino acids, if you
want.
> (e) Electrolytes ... Since summer is coming up, and depending
> of course on where you live, do not neglect an adequate
> NaCl (Salt) intake. I am not kidding. A lot of runners
> get into trouble (cramps, light headedness, nausea, etc.)
> due to electrolyte imbalances (read shortage) after or even
> during long runs in hot weather. Gatorade will *not* do!
> I used to live and work in the Middle East where daytime
> temperatures of 110-120 are not abnormal (yes, in the
> shade). Just being outside, would create dehydration headaches
> (not withstanding adequate, nay copious water consumption).
> Taking a couple of salt tablets in the morning
> alleviates that problem.
> Presently, I live and run in Houston, TX. Whenever the
> outside temp is over 80, and I am running over 120 minutes,
> I still take a salt tablet before my run.
I will comment about this and the following two points after Paul
Roger's post.
Alex
> On Thu, 23 May 2002 14:39:39 GMT, Willy Wouters <wi...@drmagu.com>
> wrote:
>
> >(e) Electrolytes ... Since summer is coming up, and depending
> > of course on where you live, do not neglect an adequate
> > NaCl (Salt) intake. I am not kidding. A lot of runners
> > get into trouble (cramps, light headedness, nausea, etc.)
> > due to electrolyte imbalances (read shortage) after or even
> > during long runs in hot weather. Gatorade will *not* do!
> > I used to live and work in the Middle East where daytime
> > temperatures of 110-120 are not abnormal (yes, in the
> > shade). Just being outside, would create dehydration headaches
> > (not withstanding adequate, nay copious water consumption).
> > Taking a couple of salt tablets in the morning
> > alleviates that problem.
> > Presently, I live and run in Houston, TX. Whenever the
> > outside temp is over 80, and I am running over 120 minutes,
> > I still take a salt tablet before my run.
>
> This is a controversial recommendation. The body tends to balance
> excretion and conservation of salt and most marathoners do not seem to
> need to take salt tablets. Standard Gatorade/Powerade drinks are
> usually enough support for most runners.
>
> I run and train in the sub-tropics and it is not common to take salt
> tablets -- although I understand some triathletes favour salt tablets
> for the longer triathlons.
>
I agree with Paul. I researched the subject a couple of years ago,
from articles pointed by Kevin Sayers' UltRunR Web Site
http://www.fred.net/ultrunr/home.html
My conclusion was that hyponatremia was indeed a real issue for people
doing ironman (elite time = 8 hr), half ironman (elite time = 4 hr) or
ultrarunning (such as 50 milers, with elite time > 4 hr). For those
folks, the Na in Gatorade is just not enough, and they have to start
taking salt capsules or tablets after the 4th hour.
But for marathoners, there is no need to do that. A reasonable
approach may be to ensure you get a decent amount of salt at the meals
on the day before the event (e.g. from some canned fish) and then
after it.
I've just found a good site on the topic:
http://sportsmedicine.miningco.com/cs/hydration/
> >(f) Water ... After the ramblings in (e), water .. water ..
> > water .. Make sure to have adequate salt in hot weather
> > though. Hypo-natremia (too much H2O, too little sodium)
> > is *not* an imaginary condition.
>
> Homeostasis generally takes care of different salt intakes.
> Non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug use may enhance the possibility
> of hyponatraemia. One study found hyponatraemia at about 0.3% in
> ultramarathons and triathlons.
>
Again, too much water can indeed lead to hyponatremia in events longer
than a marathon. (OK, if you truly overdo water intake, it can happen
too in a marathon. One woman who drank real lots of water died in a
marathon in 2000.)
This is covered here:
http://sportsmedicine.miningco.com/library/bl_hyponatremia.htm
> >(e) Vit C, Vit E & Selenium. When training, I'd take extra
> > in addition to what's typically in a multi.
>
> Vitamins C and E supplements may prevent free radical damage, muscle
> soreness and lipid peroxidation in general. The best evidence seems
> to be for vitamin E.
>
> Note that there may be a nice balance between the prooxidant and
> antioxidant needs of athletes, so megadoses may not be appropriate.
>
From the studies I am aware of:
100-200 mcg of Se is good for everyone.
1 g Vit C + 400 IU Vit E is a reasonable dose for lowering oxidative
stress in people doing moderate endurance training and probably for
the general population too (and that's what I take on most days).
Folks training really hard can go to double that amount (and that's
what I take on the day before a long event and after it).
In all cases, doses above may not be beneficial and may be actually
bad.
Many of the studies about this topic were made by Lester Packer, so
the topic should be well covered in his book "The antioxidant
miracle", which I do not have. So, anyone who has it and would like
to comment will be welcome.
Alex
There is just one antioxidant which should _NOT_ be taken by athletes
doing _ANaerobic_ work: coenzyme Q10. It will _increase_ oxidative
stress and hinder performance. The studies supporting this can be
found in PubMed searching for
"Malm ubiquinone".
Vit C and Vit E are safe bets, at 1-2 grams and 400-800 IUs
respectively. At doses grossly above those, they can become
prooxidant (as any antioxidant can).
An additional point to have in mind is that, if you do take vit E, you
HAVE to take vit C. Backed by:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9022535&dopt=Abstract
Brown KM, Morrice PC, Duthie GG. Related Articles
Erythrocyte vitamin E and plasma ascorbate concentrations in relation
to erythrocyte peroxidation in smokers and nonsmokers: dose response
to vitamin E supplementation.
Am J Clin Nutr. 1997 Feb;65(2):496-502.
PMID: 9022535 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Hua Kul
> Hi folks. I'm planning to significantly increase my endurance
> training (from a back-of-the-pack half marathoner to a decent
> marathoner). Do you have nutritional recommendations for minimizing
> the risk of surprises from the heart?
>
I found this abstract that seems to show the ability of vitamin C
to strengthen the atheroma cap collagen matrix. The authors
started out to study whether antioxidant
qualities of vitamin C would inhibit the formation of plaque. They
found out it didn't in their study, but that it greatly increased the
strength of the collagen and helped preclude sudden rupture. I guess that
could qualify as a surprise from the heart. But I'm not sure whether
the added stress you plan to put on your CV system is the type of thing
that could break loose a weak cap.
1: Circulation 2002 Mar 26;105(12):1485-90 Related Articles, Books,
LinkOut
Vulnerable atherosclerotic plaque morphology in apolipoprotein
E-deficient mice unable to make ascorbic Acid.
Nakata Y, Maeda N.
Department of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine, University of North
Carolina, Chapel Hill, NC 27599-7125, USA.
BACKGROUND: Oxidative stress is thought to play an important role in
atherogenesis, suggesting that antioxidants could prevent coronary
artery disease. However, the efficacy of vitamin C in reducing
atherosclerosis is debatable in humans and has not been tested
rigorously in animals. METHODS AND RESULTS: Gulo(-/-)Apoe(-/-) mice
were used to test a hypothesis that chronic vitamin C deficiency
enhances the initiation and development of atherosclerosis. These mice
are dependent on dietary vitamin C because of the lack of
L-gulonolactone-gamma-oxidase and are prone to develop atherosclerosis
because of lacking apolipoprotein E. Beginning at 6 weeks of age, the
Gulo(-/-)Apoe(-/-) mice were fed regular chow or Western-type diets
containing high fat and supplemented with either 0.033 g or 3.3 g/L of
vitamin C in their drinking water. This regimen produced mice with
chronically low vitamin C (average 1.5 microg/mL in plasma) or high
vitamin C (average 10 to 30 microg/mL in plasma). Morphometric
analysis showed that within each sex, age, and diet group, the sizes
of the atherosclerotic plaques were not different between low vitamin
C mice and high vitamin C mice. However, advanced plaques in the low
vitamin C mice had significantly reduced amounts of Sirius
red-staining collagen (36.4+/-2.2% versus 54.8+/-2.3%, P<0.0001),
larger necrotic cores within the plaques, and reduced
fibroproliferation and neovascularization in the aortic adventitia.
CONCLUSIONS: Chronic vitamin C deficiency does not influence the
initiation or progression of atherosclerotic plaques but severely
compromises collagen deposition and induces a type of plaque
morphology that is potentially vulnerable to rupture.
PMID: 11914259 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
--Hua Kul