Nutrition Scam
Smiley
supplement called SeaSilver. The man was making claims that just seemed
unreasonable, and, being as I'm naturally inquisitive and like doing
research, I took up the challenge of disproving his information.
It was a pretty one sided argument, he was completely unwilling to counter
any of my research or give any supporting evidence, but I did gain a lot of
knowledge in the process so I'm not terribly disapointed.
So what I've now decided to do is set up a website where I can put the
research I've done, in case anybody else is also looking for information
about SeaSilver's deceitful practices. I'm still in the middle of setting
everything up, but I do have one page done.
It's important to me that I've got my facts straight. I'm trying to expose
misinformation, not propagate it. What I'd like is for the knowledgable
people here to look through the page I have done and comment - if there's
any fact that I've got wrong, or any questionable conclusions that I've come
to, I would like to address those as soon as possible, and definitely before
I add the URL to the search engines.
www.angelfire.com/nb2/seasilverfraud/vitamins.html
Please take a look and let me know, thank you.
Denis Marier
I have learned that today's pharmacists are educated to fill prescriptions
only.
Many of the pharmacists gets their post education from pharmaceutical
companies.
Some flagrant examples are the hormone replacement therapy, Ponderal etc.
To find out the origin, the chemistry, the impacts and ramifications of
vitamins a pharmacologist has made more pertinent studies on the subject.
Today we can send a rocket to the moon but we are still learning about what
fuel is best for the human system. Vitamins vending is one of the most
profitable business. We have very little know out to measure up their
positive feedback.
"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2jb9mr...@corp.supernews.com...
PF Riley
wrote:
>
>www.angelfire.com/nb2/seasilverfraud/vitamins.html
>
>Please take a look and let me know, thank you.
Good work. I don't have much to add except I can confirm that the
bogus chart they made up does not and would not appear in the PDR. The
PDR is basically a hardcover collection of pharmaceutical package
inserts, not the end-all and be-all of pharmacology textbooks as many
con artists would have you believe when they cite it in their appeals
to authority.
And the chart itself is patently absurd. Drug absorption is affected
by many, many variables, only one of which is the mode of delivery.
You could certainly say a transdermal patch could deliver more
medication than a "gel-capsule" for a certain drug (although I can't
think of one) but there are many drugs that would easily be absorbed
from a capsule yet would have zero absorption transdermally. And the
claim than an "intra-oral liquid" would be better absorbed than a drug
administered intramuscularly (IM) is complete nonsense, since any drug
given IM is by definition 100% absorbed!
PF
Smiley
> bogus chart they made up does not and would not appear in the PDR. The
> PDR is basically a hardcover collection of pharmaceutical package
> inserts, not the end-all and be-all of pharmacology textbooks as many
> con artists would have you believe when they cite it in their appeals
> to authority.
>
> And the chart itself is patently absurd. Drug absorption is affected
> by many, many variables, only one of which is the mode of delivery.
> You could certainly say a transdermal patch could deliver more
> medication than a "gel-capsule" for a certain drug (although I can't
> think of one) but there are many drugs that would easily be absorbed
> from a capsule yet would have zero absorption transdermally. And the
> claim than an "intra-oral liquid" would be better absorbed than a drug
> administered intramuscularly (IM) is complete nonsense, since any drug
> given IM is by definition 100% absorbed!
Thanks a lot for the information. Are you a medical practitioner in any
field? If so, I may want to quote you on that. If you don't feel
comfortable
giving out personal information though, that's perfectly fine, I'm sure I
can
find corroborations for your statements elsewhere online
Denis Marier
for ferrous sulfate the chemistry for it is described as ferrous compound
preparation.
When the government's authorities issues a DIN do not list what is in the
with ferrous compound preparation.
After a month of research I am still waiting for answers from Drug Mart
chains store and pharmacists. So far I have a partial listing of some of
the binding agents used with out the percentage included in the tablets
preparation. Some of the QA dept. stated that a certain percentage of sugar
was used to make the tablets.
Having said that, this is just for a very common vitamins "Ferrous Sulfate"
let alone the other vitamins on the shelf.
"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2knhql...@corp.supernews.com...
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Smiley
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>So what I've now decided to do is set up a website where I can put the
>research I've done, in case anybody else is also looking for information
>about SeaSilver's deceitful practices. I'm still in the middle of setting
>everything up, but I do have one page done.
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
SeaSilver happens to be a trademark, sunny boy.
So, you now have a web page set up specifically to publicly defame a
trademark of a major corporation with major money?
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
I hope you are prepared to pay for a team of lawyers to defend
yourself, when SeaSilver sues you big time.
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
--
Another we know next to nothing about nutrition
moment brought to you by Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
Science is all about knowing less and less
about more and more.
PF Riley
wrote:
>> Good work. I don't have much to add except I can confirm that the
>> bogus chart they made up does not and would not appear in the PDR. The
>> PDR is basically a hardcover collection of pharmaceutical package
>> inserts, not the end-all and be-all of pharmacology textbooks as many
>> con artists would have you believe when they cite it in their appeals
>> to authority.
>>
>> And the chart itself is patently absurd. Drug absorption is affected
>> by many, many variables, only one of which is the mode of delivery.
>> You could certainly say a transdermal patch could deliver more
>> medication than a "gel-capsule" for a certain drug (although I can't
>> think of one) but there are many drugs that would easily be absorbed
>> from a capsule yet would have zero absorption transdermally. And the
>> claim than an "intra-oral liquid" would be better absorbed than a drug
>> administered intramuscularly (IM) is complete nonsense, since any drug
>> given IM is by definition 100% absorbed!
>
>Thanks a lot for the information. Are you a medical practitioner in any
>field? If so, I may want to quote you on that.
I'm a pediatrician, but PF Riley is a psuedonym because there are too
many kooks on Usenet.
PF
Denis Marier
too much post training until retirement.
Today, family physician have to check drugs and food updates sometime twice
each day.
Some have subscriptions to data banks, Universities, research centers and
government publications and are not shy use their palm pilot computer in
front of their patients.
I get a shot of B12 administered intramuscularly every month. My family
physician stated that to take B12 orally is not good because the body cannot
absorb it. Some are saying that a new B12 tablet will soon be available
thus eliminating intramuscularly injection. That remains to be seeing.
"PF Riley" <pfr...@watt-not.com> wrote in message
news:3e2ae800....@news1.nwlink.com...
Smiley
> I get a shot of B12 administered intramuscularly every month. My family
> physician stated that to take B12 orally is not good because the body
cannot
> absorb it. Some are saying that a new B12 tablet will soon be available
> thus eliminating intramuscularly injection. That remains to be seeing.
That sounds like complete bull - first of all, If B12 is unable to be
absorbed from pills or eating, how the heck are you supposed to get it from
nature? There's no vitamin that you can't get from nature's bounty, and the
biggest danger of having a Vitamin B12 deficiency is if you're a vegan.
Even then, a vitamin supplement is enough for those needs.
Smiley
> SeaSilver happens to be a trademark, sunny boy.
>
> So, you now have a web page set up specifically to publicly defame a
> trademark of a major corporation with major money?
>
> Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
>
> I hope you are prepared to pay for a team of lawyers to defend
> yourself, when SeaSilver sues you big time.
>
> Just thought that you might want to know. :)
Yeah, that's why Microsoft's suing the pants off all the websites out there
that expose THEIR deceitful practices.
Oh, wait... that's not happening at all, is it?
Oops, guess you'd better try actually knowing what you're talking about
before you say anything.
David Wright
Gohde has rejected this approach, as it would result in his posting
nothing at all. Well, except maybe for "Ha, ... Hah, Ha!" Which I
think is the sound made by his empty skull echoing, but I admit that's
speculation on my part.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders."
Denis Marier
urinated it all .
The way the schilling tests are done is your are administered B12
intramuscularly.
A nuclear pill is then given to you. Your have to collect all your urine
for the next 24 hours.
Then the container is brought to the laboratory and analyzed. The Doctor
reads the report and if not satisfactory the tests are done again. Only
then you know if your system cannot retain enough B12 for normal living. In
my case I produce B12 but my system destroys/use it quicker than the average
person. As for vegans, their diet does not include enough B12 and in
certain case they may require their diet to be supplemented by B12.
Tons of B12 oral tablets are sold but the human system cannot absorb the
vitamin by the mouth. It has to be administered intramuscularly. Many
manufacturers and re-sellers will tell you that this is not true that their
tablet is the real things. Without costly shilling tests you cannot know
your B12 requirement nor can you validate the merit of the use of tablets to
supplement a vegan's diet. FWIWnews:v2ltlrb...@corp.supernews.com...
Eric Bohlman
news:v2ltlrb...@corp.supernews.com:
Actually it's pretty much correct but a little sloppy. People who need B12
injections generally have a condition called pernicious anemia in which
their immune system attacks the stomach cells that produce a protein,
called "intrinsic factor," that's necessary for the absorption of B12. So
the statement "the body cannot absorb it" *is* correct *if* the body in
question has pernicious anemia. Someone who lacks intrinsic factor can
take tons of B12 orally and it won't get into the bloodstream. That's why
they need injections. But, needless to say, that has no bearing on the
absorbability of B12 from food or supplements in people who don't have this
fairly rare condition.
In fact, that kind of sloppiness is a common way that nutritional myths (or
for that matter, any kind of myths) start; someone takes a conditional
statement that happens to be true, strips off the conditional part, and
then passes off (deliberately or not) what remains as true unconditionally.
Classic case: if you're losing large amounts of water due to sweating from
heavy exercise in hot weather, you may start to get dehydrated before you
feel thirsty. That's a true statement, and it makes sense to advise people
who are going to exercise in hot weather to drink before they feel thirsty
(especially since water can't be absorbed instantly and they're going to
continue to sweat before the water they drank is absorbed). But if you
snip off the conditional and just say "thirst isn't a good guide to
hydration, so you should never wait until you're thirsty to drink" you've
got a statement that's no longer true. Under most circumstances, thirst
*is* a good guide to hydration; the condition of large, rapid water loss
just isn't "most circumstances."
It's easy to turn a valid statement of the exception into an invalid
statement of the rule.
Smiley
"Denis Marier" <mar...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:VIDW9.242$mL1....@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> The situation is that your body produces B12 but cannot keep it. It
> urinated it all .
Not true. Your body doesn't produce any vitamins at all - any vitamins you
get come from outside sources.
> The way the schilling tests are done is your are administered B12
> intramuscularly.
> A nuclear pill is then given to you. Your have to collect all your urine
> for the next 24 hours.
> Then the container is brought to the laboratory and analyzed. The Doctor
> reads the report and if not satisfactory the tests are done again. Only
> then you know if your system cannot retain enough B12 for normal living.
In
> my case I produce B12 but my system destroys/use it quicker than the
average
> person.
Do you have pernicious anemia?
> As for vegans, their diet does not include enough B12 and in
> certain case they may require their diet to be supplemented by B12.
> Tons of B12 oral tablets are sold but the human system cannot absorb the
> vitamin by the mouth. It has to be administered intramuscularly. Many
> manufacturers and re-sellers will tell you that this is not true that
their
> tablet is the real things. Without costly shilling tests you cannot know
> your B12 requirement nor can you validate the merit of the use of tablets
to
> supplement a vegan's diet.
I've seen no evidence that different people need such wildly different
amounts of any vitamins, baring any medical condition that would make it
necessary. The Food and Nutrition board and the National Academy of
Sciences published their Recommended Daily Allowances for many vitamins
including B12 without any reservations as to necessities for conducting
shilling tests.
John De Hoog
> Actually it's pretty much correct but a little sloppy. People who need
> B12
> injections generally have a condition called pernicious anemia in which
> their immune system attacks the stomach cells that produce a protein,
> called "intrinsic factor," that's necessary for the absorption of B12. So
>
> the statement "the body cannot absorb it" *is* correct *if* the body in
> question has pernicious anemia. Someone who lacks intrinsic factor can
> take tons of B12 orally and it won't get into the bloodstream. That's why
>
> they need injections. But, needless to say, that has no bearing on the
> absorbability of B12 from food or supplements in people who don't have
> this fairly rare condition.
I'd like to qualify the above just a bit. As people get older (and with the
added effects of taking antibiotics, etc.) their ability to absorb B12 often
(not all that rarely) declines; i.e., intrinsic factor declines
significantly. B12 shots can help, but another measure that appears to work
is to take large amounts of B12, preferably as methylcobalamin. From 500 to
1500 micrograms daily should be enough to absorb the necessary few
micrograms actually needed.
--
John De Hoog
http://dehoog.org
Denis Marier
Yes, I was diagnosed with pernicious anemia.
"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2m38lj...@corp.supernews.com...
Steve Harris
space inside your colon counts as being "inside" your body or not, is a
philsophical point. In one sense, you're a like a donut, and your gut is the
hole. Stuff in your gut is in once sense never in you at all.
SBH
Denis Marier wrote in message ...
Steve Harris
John De Hoog wrote in message ...
>Eric Bohlman wrote...
>
>> Actually it's pretty much correct but a little sloppy. People who need
>> B12
>> injections generally have a condition called pernicious anemia in which
>> their immune system attacks the stomach cells that produce a protein,
>> called "intrinsic factor," that's necessary for the absorption of B12.
So
>>
>> the statement "the body cannot absorb it" *is* correct *if* the body in
>> question has pernicious anemia. Someone who lacks intrinsic factor can
>> take tons of B12 orally and it won't get into the bloodstream. That's
why
>>
>> they need injections
Wrong. They don't need injections-- that's urban myth. As for "tons",
you're off by a factor of about a billion. A milligram a day of B12 orally
will provide somebody with pernicious anemia with all they need. Sometimes
they are given a few shots to load them up after initial diagnosis, but
nobody has proven formally that these have a better recovery than patients
treated with oral megadoses alone.
SBH
Steve Harris
Eric Bohlman wrote in message ...
>"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in
>news:v2ltlrb...@corp.supernews.com:
>
>>
>>> I get a shot of B12 administered intramuscularly every month. My
>>> family physician stated that to take B12 orally is not good because
>>> the body
>> cannot
>>> absorb it.
Your family physician is about 20 years behind the times. Try a new one.
SBH
Steve Harris
Denis Marier wrote in message ...
>urinated it all .
>The way the schilling tests are done is your are administered B12
>intramuscularly.
>A nuclear pill is then given to you. Your have to collect all your urine
>for the next 24 hours.
>Then the container is brought to the laboratory and analyzed. The Doctor
>reads the report and if not satisfactory the tests are done again. Only
>then you know if your system cannot retain enough B12 for normal living. In
>my case I produce B12 but my system destroys/use it quicker than the
average
>person. As for vegans, their diet does not include enough B12 and in
>certain case they may require their diet to be supplemented by B12.
>Tons of B12 oral tablets are sold but the human system cannot absorb the
>vitamin by the mouth. It has to be administered intramuscularly. Many
>manufacturers and re-sellers will tell you that this is not true that their
>tablet is the real things. Without costly shilling tests you cannot know
>your B12 requirement nor can you validate the merit of the use of tablets
to
>supplement a vegan's diet. FWIW
Complete nonsense. The Shilling test (please note the spelling) is a waste
of money, since the treatment is the same for B12 deficiency (diagnosed by
blood test), no matter what the mechanism. A simple, cheap, megadose pill
containing from 1 to 5 mg B12 is given every day. After a few months of
this, another blood test confirms the efficacy, and that's the end of it.
You take the pill daily for the rest of your life, but they're about nickel
apiece. The money you save not doing ONE Shilling test will buy you a
lifetime (40 year) supply of B12 pills.
The pills work in anyone short of B12 who has a terminal ileum (if you're
missing that piece of your gut, you're pretty likely to know about it, since
it will have been cut out of you at some point). For these few people
missing that piece of small bowel, B12 shots are necessary, but not doing a
Shilling test STILL pays for a lifetime of shots, and provides no
therapeutic information. So there's STILL no point in doing it. It's a relic
of a bygone age when B12 was expensive. Nobody but a few academic fossils
does the test anymore, and even they woudn't do it, if they had to pay for
it.
I wish them all a package of radioactive cobalt for Christmas.
SBH
John De Hoog
> >> they need injections
>
>
>
> Wrong. They don't need injections-- that's urban myth. As for "tons",
> you're off by a factor of about a billion. A milligram a day of B12 orally
> will provide somebody with pernicious anemia with all they need. Sometimes
> they are given a few shots to load them up after initial diagnosis, but
> nobody has proven formally that these have a better recovery than patients
> treated with oral megadoses alone.
Thanks for the information, but watch those attributions (in this, and in
another message where you appear to be disagreeing with one person but are
actually taking on the person being quoted by that person).
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Steve Harris
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>I wish them all a package of radioactive cobalt for Christmas.
>SBH
I see that you have not lost your famous people skills.
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: PF Riley
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>I'm a pediatrician, but PF Riley is a psuedonym because there are too
>many kooks on Usenet.
No! Tell me that it ain't so.
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Steve Harris
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>In one sense, you're a like a donut, and your gut is the
>hole. Stuff in your gut is in once sense never in you at all.
>
>SBH
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
So, the food that I eat is never actually in me?
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: David Wright
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Yeah, that's why Microsoft's suing the pants off all the websites out there
>>that expose THEIR deceitful practices.
>>Oh, wait... that's not happening at all, is it?
>>Oops, guess you'd better try actually knowing what you're talking about
>>before you say anything.
>... has rejected this approach, as it would result in his posting
>nothing at all. Well, except maybe for "Ha, ... Hah, Ha!" Which I
>think is the sound made by his empty skull echoing, but I admit that's
>speculation on my part.
Actually I was once contacted by a lawyer threatening legal action.
It does happen. If Seasilver ever gets wind of the activities of this
idiot ...
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Better you than me ... I have better things to do with my money than
supporting a team of lawyers.
Smiley
> It does happen. If Seasilver ever gets wind of the activities of this
> idiot ...
Ever hear of a little thing called Free Speech?
It's what allows people to set up websites putting down Microsoft, AOL,
Rogers Cable, and Scientology without fear of reprisal.
Nobody get's sued just because they disagree with a company - despite your
lame assertion that "It does happen".
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Smiley
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Ever hear of a little thing called Free Speech?
Ever hear of defamation of character?
Ever hear of having a legal Department to protect your legal rights in
a money making venture?
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Steve Harris
you reel it in, and your teeth close behind it? When you swallow? We can
continue this till it comes out the other end. So you tell me when it's in
you.
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D. wrote in message
<1lvl2vsd410tjecb0...@4ax.com>...
Steve Harris
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D. wrote in message ...
>DATE: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 14:30:03 -0800
>TO: Steve Harris
>FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
>SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
>NG: sci.med.nutrition
>==========
>
>>I wish them all a package of radioactive cobalt for Christmas.
>>SBH
>
>I see that you have not lost your famous people skills.
>
>Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
I see you're still out there, too, Gohde. And can't disguise yourself even
well enough to send two messages without being obviously your own sweet
self.
Still gumming that bread and milk?
SBH
Steve Harris
it.
Steve Harris wrote in message ...
Buckshot
> "Denis Marier" <mar...@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
> news:VIDW9.242$mL1....@ursa-nb00s0.nbnet.nb.ca...
> > The situation is that your body produces B12 but cannot keep it. It
> > urinated it all .
>
> Not true. Your body doesn't produce any vitamins at all - any vitamins you
> get come from outside sources.
>
Actually, exposure to sunlight causes your body to synthesize vitamin D, and
vitamin K is synthesized by bacteria in your gut.
Smiley
"Buckshot" <c6...@sdsumus.sdstate.edu> wrote in message
news:3a838998.03011...@posting.google.com...
Hmmm... one of my sources when I was researching said that we didn't produce
vitamins which was why we had to get them from our food. I guess they just
meant 'for the most part'.
PF Riley
<SG...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I'm a pediatrician, but PF Riley is a psuedonym because there are too
>>many kooks on Usenet.
>
>No! Tell me that it ain't so.
Case in point.
>Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
[maniacal laughter]
PF Riley
<SG...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Ever hear of a little thing called Free Speech?
>
>Ever hear of defamation of character?
The risk there, of course, would be if the web page contained lies. So
far he's right on.
PF
PF Riley
wrote:
>The situation is that your body produces B12 but cannot keep it. It
>urinated it all .
>The way the schilling tests are done is your are administered B12
>intramuscularly.
>A nuclear pill is then given to you. Your have to collect all your urine
>for the next 24 hours.
>Then the container is brought to the laboratory and analyzed. The Doctor
>reads the report and if not satisfactory the tests are done again. Only
>then you know if your system cannot retain enough B12 for normal living. In
>my case I produce B12 but my system destroys/use it quicker than the average
>person. As for vegans, their diet does not include enough B12 and in
>certain case they may require their diet to be supplemented by B12.
Yet again we are reminded: "Never believe what a patient tells you his
doctor said."
You misunderstand the purpose of the Schilling test. It does not test
how fast your "system destroys/use[s]" vitamin B12. It tests how well
you absorb oral vitamin B12.
>Tons of B12 oral tablets are sold but the human system cannot absorb the
>vitamin by the mouth. It has to be administered intramuscularly. Many
>manufacturers and re-sellers will tell you that this is not true that their
>tablet is the real things. Without costly shilling tests you cannot know
>your B12 requirement nor can you validate the merit of the use of tablets to
>supplement a vegan's diet. FWIW
If humans cannot absorb vitamin B12 by mouth, then why doesn't
everyone on the planet need vitamin B12 shots?
According to the NIH, even with true intrisnic factor deficiency,
humans can still absorb 1% of oral vitamin B12.
PF
PF Riley
<sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>B12 is produced in your hindgut where you cannot absorb it. Whether the
>space inside your colon counts as being "inside" your body or not, is a
>philsophical point. In one sense, you're a like a donut, and your gut is the
>hole. Stuff in your gut is in once sense never in you at all.
Here's a little more on that.
From
<http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-7c.shtml>:
Direct coprophagy: a reliable (vegan?) B-12 source
Note: this section may be considered to be in poor taste--both
figuratively and literally--by some readers. It is included here for
completeness, and in the event certain (extremist) fruitarian/veg*ns
might be interested in experimenting with a vegan (?) source of
vitamin B-12 that is truly radical in character.
B-12 [is] produced in, but cannot be absorbed from, the human colon.
The human colon contains bacteria that produce vitamin B-12, and fecal
matter is a rich source of B-12. This raises the question of whether
B-12 can be absorbed from the colon. From Herbert [1988, p. 852]:
In one of the less appetizing but more brilliant experiments in the
field of vitamin B-12 metabolism in the 50s, Sheila Callendar (7) in
England delineated that colon bacteria make large amounts of vitamin
B-12. Although the bacterial vitamin B-12 is not absorbed through the
colon, it is active for humans. Callendar studied vegan volunteers who
had vitamin B-12 deficiency characterized by classic megaloblastic
anemia. She collected 24-h stools, made water extracts of them, and
fed the extract to the patients, thereby curing their vitamin B-12
deficiency. This experiment demonstrated clearly that 1) colon
bacteria of vegans make enough vitamin B-12 to cure vitamin B-12
deficiency, 2) the vitamin B-12 is not absorbed through the colon
wall, and 3) if given by mouth, it is absorbed primarily in the small
bowel.
Herbert et al. [1984] collected the 24-hour fecal output from 6 men.
They found that the (24-hour) total fecal output contained ~100 mcg of
total corrinoids, of which only ~5 mcg was true B-12 (the remainder
being analogues). (Note: see Mozafar [1994] for a table of B-12 levels
in manure, feces, soil, sludge, etc.) Given this, the work of
Callendar mentioned above could be taken to suggest that the true B-12
in the feces (if reingested and passed back through the small bowel)
would be absorbed, despite the substantial amount of analogues
present.
Any takers? Further, the daily output of ~5 mcg versus the RDA/RDI of
1-2 mcg suggests that a direct coprophagy level (i.e., reingestion of
feces) of 20-40% of output will meet requirements for B-12. Might this
qualify as the only truly reliable, vegan (?) source of B-12? Will
coprophagy be the next fad among certain fruitarian extremists?
(Obligatory warning: coprophagy, and the handling of feces, is unsafe
and increases the risk of transmission of parasites and diseases.
Coprophagy is not recommended.)
PF
PF Riley
wrote:
Vitamin D is misnamed. It's a steroid hormone, not a vitamin. As for
vitamin K, again the argument of whether bacteria living in your gut
counts as part of your body or not will never be settled, but suffice
to say that if you are on chronic antibiotic therapy, killing the
little buggers, and are not getting vitamin K in your nutrition (e.g.,
parenteral nutrition) you could end up vitamin K deficient, since your
"body" doesn't synthesize it.
PF
PF Riley
<sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>
>The Shilling test (please note the spelling)
Well whaddaya know. The NIH got the spelling wrong.
PF
Eric Bohlman
news:v2n4fhd...@corp.supernews.com:
> Hmmm... one of my sources when I was researching said that we didn't
> produce vitamins which was why we had to get them from our food. I
> guess they just meant 'for the most part'.
Sort of. There are a few exceptions. For example, humans can synthesize
niacin (by a minor pathway of tryptophan metabolism), but not in sufficient
quantities to meet their requirements.
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Steve Harris
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>I see you're still out there, too, .... And can't disguise yourself even
>well enough to send two messages without being obviously your own sweet
>self.
Excuse me, but ...
The "S" stands for Science. That is Science Geek, ... you Geek!
I am the parody of your worst nightmares. I'm hardly trying to hide
my identify. I am a caricature of the Academic personalities found on
smn. :()
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Steve Harris
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Put a ball bearing on your tongue .You think it's in you? How about when
>you reel it in, and your teeth close behind it? When you swallow? We can
>continue this till it comes out the other end. So you tell me when it's in
>you.
We can also say that blood is nothing but seawater, too.
Or, we can say that matter is not solid. It is mostly empty space.
Ah! Steve just proved the validity of the commonsense approach to
health.
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Steve Harris
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Actually, in your case, GeekGodhe, make it when your dentures close behind
>it.
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Another Geek who thinks of me as "he who is God."
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: PF Riley
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>>>Ever hear of a little thing called Free Speech?
>>Ever hear of defamation of character?
>The risk there, of course, would be if the web page contained lies. So
>far he's right on.
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()
If you got money you can still sue, dumb dumb. And, the courts can
order you to cease and desist, too.
You are just another fool who thinks Free Speech means that you can
defame people as you please. Ha, ... Hah, Ha! All it means is that
most people don't bother to sue. But, some do. :)
Smiley
> defame people as you please. Ha, ... Hah, Ha! All it means is that
> most people don't bother to sue. But, some do. :)
How about this then - I live in another country and I don't give out my name
or location on the website.
Even if they wanted to sue me, they'd be pretty hard pressed to do so.
Smiley
>
> Ever hear of having a legal Department to protect your legal rights in
> a money making venture?
Ever hear of the FDA? The organization that's going to bust these guys for
violating the DSHEA?
I think their legal department is going to be a little to busy to worry
about me.
Steve Harris
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D. wrote in message ...
>TO: Steve Harris
>FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
>SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
>NG: sci.med.nutrition
>==========
>
>>I see you're still out there, too, .... And can't disguise yourself even
>>well enough to send two messages without being obviously your own sweet
>>self.
>
>Excuse me, but ...
>
>The "S" stands for Science. That is Science Geek, ... you Geek!
>
>I am the parody of your worst nightmares. I'm hardly trying to hide
>my identify. I am a caricature of the Academic personalities found on
>smn. :()
Yeah, John Godhe, like I said. You are now officially added to my killfile,
as another Godhe sockpuppet. Bye bye.
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Steve Harris
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Yeah, ..., like I said. You are now officially added to my killfile,
>as another ... sockpuppet. Bye bye.
--
It would be nice if commoners would first learn to navigate the web as
well as newsgroups and their newsreaders before becoming a royal pest.
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Smiley
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>> You are just another fool who thinks Free Speech means that you can
Hay mack!
We already know that you are an idiot.
Why do you insist on giving us more proof???
Gym Bob
"Steve Harris" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:b0f8bu$o52$1...@slb6.atl.mindspring.net...
>
> John De Hoog wrote in message ...
> >Eric Bohlman wrote...
> >
> >> Actually it's pretty much correct but a little sloppy. People who need
> >> B12
> >> injections generally have a condition called pernicious anemia in which
> >> their immune system attacks the stomach cells that produce a protein,
> >> called "intrinsic factor," that's necessary for the absorption of B12.
> So
> >>
> >> the statement "the body cannot absorb it" *is* correct *if* the body in
> >> question has pernicious anemia. Someone who lacks intrinsic factor can
> >> take tons of B12 orally and it won't get into the bloodstream. That's
> why
> >>
> >> they need injections
>
>
>
> Wrong. They don't need injections-- that's urban myth. As for "tons",
> you're off by a factor of about a billion. A milligram a day of B12 orally
> will provide somebody with pernicious anemia with all they need. Sometimes
> they are given a few shots to load them up after initial diagnosis, but
> nobody has proven formally that these have a better recovery than patients
> treated with oral megadoses alone.
>
> SBH
>
>
Gym Bob
complete name, address , the works! Legally you are a piece of cake to find!
Never assume you are anonymous on the internet!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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rp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
From: "Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.med,sci.med.nutrition
Subject: Re: Nutrition Scam
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:16:29 -0500
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
Message-ID: <v2o4mfd...@corp.supernews.com>
X-Priority: 3
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Lines: 10
Xref: mantis.golden.net sci.med:342728 sci.med.nutrition:183818
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------
"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2o4mfd...@corp.supernews.com...
Steve Harris
Gym Bob wrote in message ...
>I understand that sublingual B12 is the best form for absorption.
There's no good evidence for this that know of, and I've looked. The
sublingual route of oral absorption for drug like nitroglycerine has gotten
a lot of press because in your mouth and your anus is mucosa which is
drained by veins which bypass the liver, and thus things you absorb by mouth
or per rectum bypass liver metabolism. This is totally irrelevent to B12,
which you want to go to your liver anyway. Not that I think the surface area
of your mouth compares with your gut when it comes to mass-action
diffusional B12 absorption, of the type we're discussing here.
Sublingual B12 was invented by marketing geniuses, and it's bought by the
nutritionally clueless. Sort of the same way as with B12 nasal gel. Not
quite that silly, but getting there.
SBH
Gym Bob
for a breathe mint!....LOL
"Steve Harris" <sbha...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:b0iehq$5ek$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
B12 User
ileum circumvented by weight-reduction surgery, so it might as well
not be there. And I do take vitamin B12 shots, once a month, have been
doing so for three years. When my doc suspected a B12 problem, he
did a simple blood test, not the Shilling/Schilling (whatever) test. And
1 mg. of B12 serum a month, with a tiny needle, solved the problem.
Me
- - - - - -
Steve Harris wrote:
>
> Denis Marier wrote in message ...
> >The situation is that your body produces B12 but cannot keep it. It
> >urinated it all .
> >The way the schilling tests are done is your are administered B12
> >intramuscularly.
> >A nuclear pill is then given to you. Your have to collect all your urine
> >for the next 24 hours.
> >Then the container is brought to the laboratory and analyzed. The Doctor
> >reads the report and if not satisfactory the tests are done again. Only
> >then you know if your system cannot retain enough B12 for normal living. In
> >my case I produce B12 but my system destroys/use it quicker than the
> average
> >person. As for vegans, their diet does not include enough B12 and in
> >certain case they may require their diet to be supplemented by B12.
> >Tons of B12 oral tablets are sold but the human system cannot absorb the
> >vitamin by the mouth. It has to be administered intramuscularly. Many
> >manufacturers and re-sellers will tell you that this is not true that their
> >tablet is the real things. Without costly shilling tests you cannot know
> >your B12 requirement nor can you validate the merit of the use of tablets
> to
> >supplement a vegan's diet. FWIW
>
> Complete nonsense. The Shilling test (please note the spelling) is a waste
> of money, since the treatment is the same for B12 deficiency (diagnosed by
> blood test), no matter what the mechanism. A simple, cheap, megadose pill
> containing from 1 to 5 mg B12 is given every day. After a few months of
> this, another blood test confirms the efficacy, and that's the end of it.
> You take the pill daily for the rest of your life, but they're about nickel
> apiece. The money you save not doing ONE Shilling test will buy you a
> lifetime (40 year) supply of B12 pills.
>
> The pills work in anyone short of B12 who has a terminal ileum (if you're
> missing that piece of your gut, you're pretty likely to know about it, since
> it will have been cut out of you at some point). For these few people
> missing that piece of small bowel, B12 shots are necessary, but not doing a
> Shilling test STILL pays for a lifetime of shots, and provides no
> therapeutic information. So there's STILL no point in doing it. It's a relic
> of a bygone age when B12 was expensive. Nobody but a few academic fossils
> does the test anymore, and even they woudn't do it, if they had to pay for
> it.
B12 User
excising that name from your reply?
> Yeah, John Godhe, like I said. You are now officially added to my killfile,
> as another Godhe sockpuppet. Bye bye.
>>Yeah, ..., like I said. You are now officially added to my killfile,
>>as another ... sockpuppet. Bye bye.
Just baffled by this idiotic exchange going on...
Me
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Steve Harris
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Gym Bob wrote in message ...
Boy Steve, are you ignorant!
Sublingual B12 is for the expensive form of B-12 that is destroyed in
your stomach if you swallow it!!!
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: B12 User
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>why did you go to the trouble of
>excising that name from your reply?
Excuse me, but ...
The "S" stands for Science. That is Science Geek, ... you Geek!
I am no Exorcist!
I am a caricature of the Academic personalities found on smn. :()
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
David Wright
There's a rare mutation in humans that allows those who have it to
synthesize vitamin C, but not enough to avoid scurvy, so it's not of
much practical interest.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
were standing on my shoulders."
David Wright
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D. <Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D. "SG...@hotmail.com"> wrote:
>DATE: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:43:58 -0800
>TO: Steve Harris
>FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
>SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
>NG: sci.med.nutrition
>==========
>
>>Yeah, ..., like I said. You are now officially added to my killfile,
>>as another ... sockpuppet. Bye bye.
>--
>It would be nice if commoners would first learn to navigate the web as
>well as newsgroups and their newsreaders before becoming a royal pest.
So you're saying that's what you did before becoming a royal pest?
Smiley
sense. Are they the parent company for uvegotemail.com? Is that what
you're talking about? uvgotemail.com doesn't know who I am either - they're
just a web based email provider. Plus, they're also in another country from
mine altogether as well, even if they could give information about me it
would be a hassle getting it from them.
"Gym Bob" <no...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:BM2X9.123$9k6.12...@mantis.golden.net...
Smiley
> complete name, address , the works! Legally you are a piece of cake to
find!
>
> Never assume you are anonymous on the internet!
Ah, I see now, Supernews - apparently they're an outsourcing service to this
newsgroup provider. They don't know anything about me either, I've got my
ISP account elsewhere. If you know of any other way anybody could find me,
I'd love to hear it.
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: David Wright
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>"If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants
> were standing on my shoulders."
Personally, I think that they are standing on your head ... in the
mud!
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: David Wright
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>There's a rare mutation in humans that allows those who have it to
>synthesize vitamin C, but not enough to avoid scurvy, so it's not of
>much practical interest.
mutation?
Ah! The Academic mind at work. :()
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Gym Bob
access or credt your account now would they?
When Suoernews stands for "interfering with the legal process" or
"conspiracy to commit crime" they know who you are geeee...guess
what?........and it isn't a hassle anymore.
Been there, done this. You are not invincible on the internet.
"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2pop5k...@corp.supernews.com...
Jack
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003 01:18:13 -0500, "Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com>
wrote:
In America, we have something called SLAPP, Strategic Lawsuits Against
Public Participation - meaning you might win the lawsuit but the cost to
you is too high. So... people are made reticent to publicly criticize
companies, judges, lawyers or others who have an easy ability to sue.
Laws are made by lawyers.
How can they find you? You can't be on the internet without having an IP
address. Once a lawsuit is filed, they can get a search warrant at your
webmail service. They probably can also trace you back through supernews,
since you connected to their server farm using your IP.
More direcly, they'd get one at angelfire to see the IP you had when you
uploaded the web pages. Then they don't have to prove that the person who
made the posts is the same person who put up the website.
There are various ways to try and hide your identity, such as using
proxies, remailers, being aware of logging policy, etc.
Good luck.
-----= Posted via Newsfeed.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeed.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== 100,000 Groups! - 19 Servers! - Unlimited Download! =-----
Smiley
> If supernews didn't know who you were they wouldn't be able to give you
> access or credt your account now would they?
>
> When Suoernews stands for "interfering with the legal process" or
> "conspiracy to commit crime" they know who you are geeee...guess
> what?........and it isn't a hassle anymore.
>
> Been there, done this. You are not invincible on the internet.
>
Sorry, but you're wrong - I have no direct contact with supernews.com, nor
have they ever charged me any money. The newsreader service that I'm using
from this computer apparently uses supernews.com, but that's about it.
supernews.com has no way of knowing who I am, so you're out of luck there.
Gym Bob
identify you absolutely (well your account anyway) and when the cops come
they hand over where it came from. It may take a while but it works and
always finds you.
Now if you lived in Russia or some internet unfriendly nation it may be a
little harder. The rest have to keep records or get off the connection.
Connection rules apply or don't connect.
There is no such thing as anonyminity on the internet, only confusion not
making the cost worth while.
"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2r3u73...@corp.supernews.com...
Ginnie
even more serious DENIAL. Even I - an average user - can tell
that you're using Microsoft Outlook Express on a PC, and that
anyone who takes offense at anything you post as "Smiley" at
smi...@uvgotemail.com, should direct their abuse "X-Complaints-
To: ab...@supernews.com. It's all there, in the header of every
single message you send.
Supernews obviously rides herd over uvgotemail. Ignore that
fact, and the fact that you CAN be identified, at your own risk.
Ginnie
________________________________
Smiley
"Ginnie" <gin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3E2DCCAD...@earthlink.net...
> Smiley, you're either into some *serious* wishful thinking, or some
> even more serious DENIAL. Even I - an average user - can tell
> that you're using Microsoft Outlook Express on a PC, and that
> anyone who takes offense at anything you post as "Smiley" at
> smi...@uvgotemail.com, should direct their abuse "X-Complaints-
> To: ab...@supernews.com. It's all there, in the header of every
> single message you send.
>
> Supernews obviously rides herd over uvgotemail. Ignore that
> fact, and the fact that you CAN be identified, at your own risk.
How? Uvgotemail.com doesn't even know who I am. They're a web based email
company who didn't require me to submit my address or anything. Even if
they wanted to they couldn't identify me.
Smiley
> Well you see that "one of a kind ID I published? That just happens to
> identify you absolutely (well your account anyway) and when the cops come
> they hand over where it came from. It may take a while but it works and
> always finds you.
>
> Now if you lived in Russia or some internet unfriendly nation it may be a
> little harder. The rest have to keep records or get off the connection.
> Connection rules apply or don't connect.
>
> There is no such thing as anonyminity on the internet, only confusion not
> making the cost worth while.
Which one? The message ID? It's different for each message I write.
Besides which, it's a moot point. First off, I'm not doing anything illegal
and it's highly unlikely anybody would arrest me - especially since if
SeaSilver tried anything they would only be exposing their own illegal
activities to a judge and jurors as well.
Second of all, I use mostly web based services for my mail and news, and
they don't know where I live at all.
Thirdly, SeaSilver wouldn't even know anything about this newsgroup
conversation, and by the time I finish the website it will be long gone
history - unless they were tipped off and decided to search through some
newsgroup archives, which, of course, would be a little bit much of an
effort involving time and money to waste on just finding me.
Fourthly, even the legalities of finding out where I live would involve time
and money consuming legal work through more than one country, even if they
were able to trace down my ISP.
Ginnie
You aren't gonna like this one bit... Look what I found, in under 20 seconds-
and I didn't even use the name Smiley, just "SeaSilver" and sci.med:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22seasilver%22+group:sci.med&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0
Ginnie
______________________
Gym Bob
the records but every post has an ID attached that identifies a link to
their logs which will tell them your IP address. That happens to come from
your ISP and their logs will , along with the time posted, tell them
absolutely what account the post came from. Let's face it...you are not
anonymous.
Yes you have agreed with me and I will repeat it again. It has to be worth
the hassle. A legal criminal thing or large bucks etc..
The confusion can mask smal/petty things., Never admit to anything when they
knock on your door. First mistake.
"Smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:v2rlpu6...@corp.supernews.com...
David Wright
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D. <Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D. "SG...@hotmail.com"> wrote:
>Personally, I think
There you go, making ridiculous assertions again.
-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net
These are my opinions only, but they're almost always correct.
j r
word steve? my spell checker makes it look religious.)
if nothing why use this route at all?
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: David Wright
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>>Personally, I think
>There you go, making ridiculous assertions again.
You are not entitled to an opinion unless you have a PhD behind your
name, ... Geek!
smiley
> Oh, you aren't living in the real world!
>
> You aren't gonna like this one bit... Look what I found, in under 20 seconds-
> and I didn't even use the name Smiley, just "SeaSilver" and sci.med:
> http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+%22seasilver%
> 22+group:sci.med&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&filter=0
>
> Ginnie
You're not making any sense, why are you showing me a list of Google
newsgroup results? Good for you, you managed to find some posts, how
does that invalidate anything I've said???
Roman
>
> www.angelfire.com/nb2/seasilverfraud/vitamins.html
>
Not arguing for or against SeaSilver, but want to address your statements
regarding Vitamin A: "My multivitamin offers 10,000iu of vitamin A. An
overdose is anything over 25,000iu. Go ahead, ask your doctor if it would be
okay to swallow 10 of those, taking in 100,000iu of Vitamin A. After the
horrified look on his face wears off he will tell you to under no
circumstances follow that plan!"
You are mistaken about toxicity of Vitamin A. It is much less toxic,
regardless of what your doctor will tell you. But I am talking about a
natural form, e.g. from fish oil. I don't have any data about a synthetic
form.
Roman
smiley
> You're living in wish land. I am not sure how long they have to or do keep
> the records but every post has an ID attached that identifies a link to
> their logs which will tell them your IP address. That happens to come from
> your ISP and their logs will , along with the time posted, tell them
> absolutely what account the post came from. Let's face it...you are not
> anonymous.
>
> Yes you have agreed with me and I will repeat it again. It has to be worth
> the hassle. A legal criminal thing or large bucks etc..
>
> The confusion can mask smal/petty things., Never admit to anything when they
> knock on your door. First mistake.
My IP address would be the only way they could find me, but even that
would be quite a bit of a hassle, especially since I like to use proxy
services. It would be especially much of a hassle since they'd have
to go through a few companies just to get the information they want,
and they'd need a pretty good reason to even get a judge to give them
a warrant for the records of just one of those companies.
I'm not saying that it's completely impossible for them to find me,
I'm just saying that it's way more hassle than it's worth. Nothing's
impossible if you try hard enough, that's why they cracked the Enigma
code back in WWII. But seriously, how likely do you think it is that
I'll get in any sort of trouble here?
smiley
> Public Participation - meaning you might win the lawsuit but the cost to
> you is too high. So... people are made reticent to publicly criticize
> companies, judges, lawyers or others who have an easy ability to sue.
> Laws are made by lawyers.
>
> How can they find you? You can't be on the internet without having an IP
> address. Once a lawsuit is filed, they can get a search warrant at your
> webmail service. They probably can also trace you back through supernews,
> since you connected to their server farm using your IP.
>
> More direcly, they'd get one at angelfire to see the IP you had when you
> uploaded the web pages. Then they don't have to prove that the person who
> made the posts is the same person who put up the website.
>
> There are various ways to try and hide your identity, such as using
> proxies, remailers, being aware of logging policy, etc.
Much of the time I do use proxy services, so that will protect my IP
in most cases. In any case, as I've pointed out before, it would be a
big hassle for them, and would only serve to publicize their own
illegal activities even further.
Gym Bob
I've done it once.
"smiley" <smi...@uvgotemail.com> wrote in message
news:7adb0bf3.03012...@posting.google.com...
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: smiley
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Nothing's
>impossible if you try hard enough, that's why they cracked the Enigma
>code back in WWII. But seriously, how likely do you think it is that
>I'll get in any sort of trouble here?
Yeah! Anything is possible and worth it to get your very last dime.
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Hey Dumb Dumb, Seasilver is a trademark. Do you have permission to
use their trademark?
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: smiley
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Much of the time I do use proxy services, so that will protect my IP
>in most cases.
So, you basically are saying that you are crook?
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Roman
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
> I don't have any data about a synthetic
>form.
You don't have any data period!
You are not entitled to an opinion unless you have a PhD behind your
name, ... Geek!
Ginnie
Scenario: SeaSilver wonders - just *wonders* - if anybody out there
is slamming their products. Or even *talking* about them. They spend a
few minutes on Google Groups searching for "SeaSilver", and... guess
what pops up?
Among other hits, THIS conversation, a bunch of times, since SeaSilver's
name has been mentioned in a lot of individual posts;and allllllllllll about
your website, and alllllllllll about how you think you're underneath
everybody's radar...
AND they get a 'tude about it, and decide to find out just what is on
this website.
Depending on how ticked they are, and how much they hate your
website, and anything they find "over the limit" in the legal sense,
they could then get a judge to give them the order to find out who
you are, to slap a suit on you.
The other thing that *anyone* can do is take the URL of your website, plug
it into WHOIS, and it will tell them *exactly* who owns that website,
their contact information, their administrater and their contact information.
Easy.
Ginnie
_________________________________________
Ginnie
own, you bought a slice of Angelfire.Lycos. Even easier. SeaSilver
calls up Angelfire.Lycos, mentioning "lawsuit", and your site likely
comes down in a flash, until the legal issues are settled.
Ginnie
__________________________________________
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: Ginnie
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>Oop, wrong about the last part. You don't have a real URL of your
>own, you bought a slice of Angelfire.Lycos. Even easier. SeaSilver
>calls up Angelfire.Lycos, mentioning "lawsuit", and your site likely
>comes down in a flash, until the legal issues are settled.
I can see now why his name is smiley.
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
He is a total rube!
Gym Bob
"Ginnie" <gin...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3E2F3AE7...@earthlink.net...
David Wright
>TO: David Wright
>FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
>SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
>NG: sci.med.nutrition
>==========
>
>>>Personally, I think
>
>>There you go, making ridiculous assertions again.
>
>You are not entitled to an opinion unless you have a PhD behind your
>name, ... Geek!
I have one. You don't, and never will (diploma mills don't count).
David Wright
Ha ha ha. Vitamin A in the non-soluble forms is toxic at overdose
no matter whether it's "natural" or not. Ever heard of the arctic
explorers who made the mistake of eating polar bear liver? It was
real natural -- and loaded with vitamin A. It killed them.
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: David Wright
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>I have one. You don't, and never will (diploma mills don't count).
I am a caricature of the Academic personalities found on smn. :()
Just thought that you might want to know. :)
Gym Bob
"David Wright" <wri...@clam.prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:MvKX9.2728$c%7....@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
David Wright
>TO: David Wright
>FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
>SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
>NG: sci.med.nutrition
>==========
>
>>I have one. You don't, and never will (diploma mills don't count).
>
>I am a caricature of the Academic personalities found on smn. :()
That's true of all your postings, no matter which of your zillions of
aliases you're under.
Gym Bob
Moron
<PLONK>
"David Wright" <wri...@clam.prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:0J2Y9.934$c13.50...@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com...
Gym Bob
Vitamin A poisoning from a meal?.....ROFLMFAO!
"David Wright" <wri...@clam.prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:MvKX9.2728$c%7....@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <b0mmon$8v0$1...@news.chatlink.com>, Roman <r_...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
David Wright
Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
TO: David Wright
FROM: Dr. S. Geek, Ph.D.
SUBJECT: "Re: Nutrition Scam (The Silly Shilling Test)."
NG: sci.med.nutrition
==========
>>I am a caricature of the Academic personalities found on smn. :()
>That's true of all your postings, no matter which of your zillions of
>aliases you're under.
Hey dumb dumb, I am making fun of people like you. I say what you
would say in a similar situation. :()
So, when you attack Dr. Geek, you are attacking yourself!
Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
Beverly Erlebacher
Well, if you want some actual information, rather than just an
opportunity to display your ignorance, try a search on "polar bear
liver" and "toxicity. One of the first things it turned up for me
was a course on nutritional toxicology at Cornell University,
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/courses/as625/625classvit.html
Classification of Vitamins by Toxicity
Naturally-occurring intoxications with vitamins are EXTREMELY RARE and
result only from ingestion of 1) liver from animals that really pack
away a lot of retinyl ester (Vitamin A) in their stellate cells (polar
bear, shark, tuna, dogs, etc.) and 2) one of three or four plants
containing vitamin D-like calcinogenic glycosides (1, 25
dihydroxycholcalciferol derivatives).
Artificially-induced vitamin toxicity for both humans and their
domestic animals can result from errors in calculation, measurement,
mixing and judgement.
Toxic vitamins have a therapeutic index of 20 or less and include both
Vitamin A (retinol, retinal, retinoic acid) and Vitamin D (especially
D3).
Relatively non-toxic vitamins have a therapeutic index of 20 or more
and include all other vitamins. No naturally occurring intoxications
are known for this latter class of vitamins, but "megadoses" taken for
reputed medical benefits have resulted in niacin toxicity and some less
serious complications associated with vitamin C.
For more detailed info, try:
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/courses/as625/625vita.html
Or the other 145 URLs I turned up in a few seconds.
Roman
(if you mean truth). Neither does it necessarily indicate that the searcher
is not ignorant. Information published on the net (including University
sites), books, journals, and especially John Godhe's sources may be wrong
just as anything and anybody, and myths are abound. So, don't be so
arrogant.
Roman
"Beverly Erlebacher" <b...@cs.toronto.edu> wrote in message
news:2003Jan24....@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
Gym Bob
Speaking of ignoramuses.
Vitamin A poisoning from one meal?.....ROFLMFAO!!
"Beverly Erlebacher" <b...@cs.toronto.edu> wrote in message
news:2003Jan24....@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu...
Roman
news:MvKX9.2728$c%7....@newssvr16.news.prodigy.com...
> Ha ha ha.
Damn, one more got infected by whatever is devouring Godhe's brain. :)
>Vitamin A in the non-soluble forms is toxic at overdose
> no matter whether it's "natural" or not.
Everything is toxic if consumed in too large doses, including water itself.
My point was not to say that Vitamin A is never toxic but that it is far
less toxic that the original poster stated. Let us pay attention to main
points of posts. Ok?
>Ever heard of the arctic
> explorers who made the mistake of eating polar bear liver? It was
> real natural -- and loaded with vitamin A. It killed them.
I have heard of many things, but that doesn't make them necessarily true,
does it? People make mistakes, some mistakes stay with us as myths for
thousands of years. Are you ***sure*** that the explorers ***died*** from
***Vitamin A*** poisoning? Can you prove it? Just because the explorers ate
polar bear liver and that polar bear liver contains a lot of Vitamin A, it
does not follow that they died from Vitamin A overdose. Even if eating the
liver led to problems the explorer experienced, you have to keep in mind
that the liver might have contained other substances too (actually it always
does). Read more about this in the next paragraph. And did they actually
die?
Other people make other statements. Here's one from
http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins/supplements.html: "The warnings against
vitamin A usually include mention of Arctic explorers who died from vitamin
A overdose because they consumed polar bear livers. Actually, the early
***explorers did not die*** from eating polar bear liver. They did suffer
from exfoliative dermatitis and hair loss. In 1988, a team of Swedish
scientists discovered that polar bear and seal livers tend to accumulate the
metal cadmium. The symptoms for cadmium poisoning are exfoliative dermatitis
and hair loss, but don't expect to hear about this on the evening news.
Rather, expect continuing stories about the alleged dangers of vitamins A
and D. The media and the medical establishment work together to vilify the
very substances that can prevent suffering and disease."
And here's another article about exaggerated public perception of toxicity
of Vitamin A -- http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins/vitaminasaga.html
Roman
B-Ob1
to 50.000 units max every 48 hrs///no mor often. Lay off for awhile so the
effects can wear off. Take plenty of Vit C however...250 mg per hour for most
adults. B-0b1