common policy regarding study of blood samples
x01001x
purpose of study.
I am aware that various entities, such as blood banks and the VA, draw
blood for specific purposes with respect to their patients, donors,
and/or recipients.
The methods of these kinds of places don't really apply to my
question, because the blood is drawn for the purpose of inspection,
not for study by students.
I suppose medical schools are used to obtaining blood for study,
however are they the ONLY entities capable of obtaining it? Also,
where would they be getting it?
Any information regarding how human blood is/was typically obtained
for study will
be appreciated.
John Gentile
Every medical lab, blood bank and many research labs "study" blood.
what are you looking to study? Your question is too vague to answer.
--
John Gentile MS, M(ASCP)
Laboratory Information Mgr.
VA Medical Center
Providence, RI
yjg...@cox.net
x01001x
> > I suppose medical schools are used to obtaining blood for study,
> > however are they the ONLY entities capable of obtaining it?
There's a question that's not very vague.
> > Also,
> > where would they be getting it?
Seems like a clear question...
> > Any information regarding how human blood is/was typically obtained
> > for study will
> > be appreciated.
This one is vague on purpose. I kept it vague because it is so
difficult to get anyone on this group to
answer the first questions that I thought I should put this in there
as an invitation to share ANY information related
to the topic of the thread.
> Every medical lab, blood bank and many research labs "study" blood.
Yes, but what I was implying was that they are studying it with direct
respect to the donor. That is they may be trying to see if someone is
sick, or figure out information regarding the sickness of an
individual. This is different from the medical school setting, where
blood would be studied for the purpose of students understanding the
physical nature of blood, and learning technical practices such as
doing differentials.
> what are you looking to study?
Human blood.
Why don't you share some details regarding your personal experience?
Did you go to medical school?
Did they ever present you with blood samples for study?
John Gentile
>
>> what are you looking to study?
>
> Human blood.
>
> Why don't you share some details regarding your personal experience?
> Did you go to medical school?
> Did they ever present you with blood samples for study?
OK, there are hundreds of cell types, thousands of chemical analyses,
and many genetic tests that can be done on human blood. Again, what in
the blood are you trying to "study"? No, I didn't go to medical school,
but in college if we needed to study some aspect of blood or a blood
component, we usually rolled up our sleve and supplied our own blood to
study.
x01001x
> study.
I was told by a forensic pathologist that might be the only way...
It doesn't ring true to me though. Perhaps in medical school
the blood of sick people whose ailments are already known by
doctors are studied by students...?
If you are still curious about what I was intending, check the older
version of this thread which you commented on. I believe I cleared
that up
in that thread.
John Gentile
No you still don't understand what goes on in a clinical or a research
lab. Medical students, laboratory science students, pharmacy students
all have to know how to examine all aspects of patients' blood, both in
a disease state and in a "normal-healthy" state. In a clinical lab we
can only examine blood on orders from a health care provider. In a
research lab they can study things related to the research they are
conducting. In a teaching lab they will study, compare and contrast
healthy and diseased blood.
Take the time and visit a hospital lab and ask to observe the process.
But you still have not answered my initial question, what do you want
to study in the blood? Do you just want to look at the cells floating
by under a microscope? Do you want to examing clotting factors? How
about some chemical analysis in the serum or the plasma?
JEDilworth
different ID and asked this same question before numerous times. He just
doesn't get it. He wants to do SOMETHING with blood cells in some home lab
or something.
Judy Dilworth, M.T. (ASCP)
Microbiology
x01001x
Actually, I didn't post the same message under a different ID.
What I did was restate my question in an effort to clarify
it to people on this newsgroup who don't understand the question.
Also, as far as the "something" I am trying to do, it is called a
differential and we discussed that in the earlier thread.
x01001x
> lab.
Are you sure? What evidence are you basing this comment on?
> Medical students, laboratory science students, pharmacy students
> all have to know how to examine all aspects of patients' blood, both in
> a disease state and in a "normal-healthy" state.
This is obvious, and is not a relevant answer to my question.
> In a clinical lab we
> can only examine blood on orders from a health care provider.
Right, and this would be related to treatment of a patient.
See my post "The methods of these kinds of places don't really apply
to my
question, because the blood is drawn for the purpose of inspection,
not for study by students."
Already (and again I might add) you are misunderstanding my very
simple question.
I am focused on how human blood is typically procured for study by
students,
not labs with a relationship with a health care provider who are
inspecting the blood
with plans of treating a patient. If you don't understand, try re-
reading my post.
It is to be taken quite literally.
> In a research lab they can study things related to the research they are
> conducting. In a teaching lab they will study, compare and contrast
> healthy and diseased blood.
"In a teaching lab" how is the said studied blood usually procured?
I've had 2 people tell me now that the students roll up their sleeves
and draw it. This can't be right. No teacher would ask their students
to do that.
> Take the time and visit a hospital lab and ask to observe the process.
I have already. I believe I commented earlier that the lab I was in
had only AIDS infected blood,
as HIV/AIDS patients' blood was being inspected. I am interested in
how "healthy-state" blood (as you call it)
is procured for study by students, who are not yet professionals.
> But you still have not answered my initial question, what do you want
> to study in the blood?
Actually I answered that in the previous version of this thread.
Please re-read it.
x01001x
> There are many regulations in place today that prevent giving away
> blood samples.
Care to share more information on this?
> Labs have very strict disposal procedures that are
> mandated by licensing organizations, as well as by law .
This is irrelevant. Disposal would take place after the blood is
procured, which is what my
question concerns.
> There are
> safety and liability issues. For instance - say you were a junior
> high student wanting to play vampire. There could be a chance that the
> blood might be contaminated with something.
What blood? Where would said blood be coming from?
> labs used to donate samples to school science
> labs for studying ABO testing.
I don't know why I have to type this again, but WHERE would these
samples
be coming from typically?
> You brought up studies by medical students, so I'm assuming that's
> what you are?
No. If I was this question would have been answered for me by a
teacher.
I am a college graduate with a degree in Science, and have worked in
various labs.
Also, I should note I have experience in a blood lab, although at that
time I had not graduated yet,
and was allowed to be there by the kindness of the hospital, which
knew I was a serious academic.
I didn't do much however, and as I have stated before, most of the
blood was infected with AIDS, so at
that time I didn't ask too many questions or dive into much work,
because frankly I didn't want to work
around HIV/AIDS.
> If you need blood for an independent study, contact
> your advisors and see just what the procedures you need to go through.
I've talked to a few professionals who keep telling me to roll up my
sleeve.
I'm looking to find out what the typical safe method used by medical
schools is.
> You could be granted access to some samples from your affiliated
> hospital this way.
I already have been, however it doesn't answer my question, because
that is patients' blood which is there because they
need to be treated. It hasn't been donated for the purpose of study or
anything like that. Also, if I did what you say, that would be
a "special case." I am posting here asking this question to better
understanding typical procedure. Note the post topic starts with
"common policy..."
> Or else they could help you set up a voluntary
> donation program set up explicitly for your project.
First I'd like this very simple question answered by you gentlemen who
are more closely involved in this work than I.
Thank you.
x01001x
> what do you want
> to study in the blood?
To save time and confusion, I will re-post for you all:
"I mean put the blood in a glass slide stained with hematoxylin and
eosin, put it under a microscope, and document its makeup.
Also, I mean put a test tube of human blood in a centrifuge to
separate the red blood cels, white blood cels,
and platelets from the plasma, for the purpose of checking the ratio
of cells to fluid. "
John Gentile
Finally, this is the first time I've seen you answer the question as to
what you want to study in the blood.
And as i said before, when I was in college, we drew blood on ourselves
and that is what we studied. Not sure why you don't understand that
concept. People who work in labs must learn how to obtain blood, and
this is the best way to learn.
You made reference to working in a lab where all the blood was HIV
blood. Well unless you were working in a research lab working on HIV, I
find that hard to believe. I do think, however the "standard protocol"
we all work under is to treat ALL blood samples as if they are
infectious. And not necessarily infectious with HIV, but more commonly
with Hepatitis.
What you want to "study" is a CBC - Complete Blood Count. I would get a
book on it first and you should look under the subject of hematology.
You will usually find books with several hundred pages on the subject.
To casually "study" blood would really be out of the question unless
you work in a lab and have access to proper facilities. The chemicals
are dangerous and hazardous, the blood is considered a biohazard.
x01001x
> and that is what we studied.
Were you instructed to do this? I hope not. Why weren't you able
to study samples provided by the school or a hospital lab?
> Not sure why you don't understand that
> concept.
I don't understand it because it's:
A. Unprofessional
B. Dangerous
C. Disorganized
> People who work in labs must learn how to obtain blood, and
> this is the best way to learn.
Apparently you didn't learn, because you had to get it from yourself!
> What you want to "study" is a CBC - Complete Blood Count. I would get a
> book on it first and you should look under the subject of hematology.
Yes, but my original message didn't ask anything about how to do a
CBC.
Posted was:
"I suppose medical schools are used to obtaining blood for study,
however are they the ONLY entities capable of obtaining it? Also,
where would they be getting it?
Any information regarding how human blood is/was typically obtained
for study will
be appreciated."
I'm starting to wonder if you and the rest of the group just don't
want to answer these questions,
because I've had to re-post so much I can't see how you keep missing
the simplicity of the questions
asked. You keep answering questions I haven't asked instead.