Immune Defence & Cancer?
Kumar
It can be bit odd to think, that our defence immune response may not
be doing anything hard to cure cancer. Cancer immunotherapies are also
aimed by aiding to increasing immune response. However, as cancer
cells comes from our own cells, immune response can miss or be
mistaken.
As such, will you tell:-
How & when host immune defence is able to recognize that cancer cells
are being odd cells to body & start defence response against them?
Whether cancerous tumor or cancer's dormant/non-metastatic state is
cancer cells mediated or immune defence response mediated?
Some indications are there that withholding of iron and may be of
other nutrients to cancer cells and other pathogens occur during
various states. So this should be immune defence response mediated.
Best wishes.
Dan
That is just it. The immune system does not want to make the mistake of
killing the host. In the future we may be able to tweak the immune
system to be more precise in its targeting including wayward human
cells. In the distance we will have nano-bots traversing our body in
search of cancerous cells, then killing them or reprogramming them.
Also, cleaning the blood system etc.
Kumar
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Do you want to tell that immune system don't recognize cancer cells as
odd cells & so immune system is not followed?
If we study following link which indicates that iron withholding do
occur on neoplasm.
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm
In view of this, how can we think that immune defence is not
recognizing cancer cells & not doing anything for cure? I am taliking
here at the movement immunotherapy our outer aid to enhance immune
defence. But still, when we think about immunotherapy, it can be
obious that immune system should be recognizing & handling these,
though weakly.
Dan
I am not saying no part of the immune system recognizes wayward cells.
But I see much more promise going the epigenetic route for applicable
cancers and using nano tech to deliver anti-cancer drugs more precisely.
But all avenues of research are good and may we have a good toolkit in
the coming years at reasonable cost to knock most cancers out.
Kelley Eidem
Immune system defense is helpful when the patient makes the mistake of
getting chemo, since chemo is destructive to the immune system and
frequently kills the patient. Immune defense is not very helpful
against cancer cells, although many herbs have both pro-immune and
anti-cancer properties.
The best to you.
Kelley
Kumar
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As normal cells become cancer cells, there can be delay in immune
defence response. I wany to check how and when immune defence is able
to recognize cancer cells and start working against them.
Kumar
Dan
Does A -> B or is B just associated with A? That is the nut to crack.
The old cop defence "Well, I thought he was pointing a gun at me so I
shot him to death".
Kumar
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???
Dan
Correlation vs implication.
Kelley Eidem
Normal cells don't become cancer cells. Cancer cells are trophoblast
cells. With the correct pH they remain inactive.
Dan
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071219142056.htm
Kumar
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Thanks. But alsl tell me more about host immune defence mediated
resopnses. Iron withholding(as per link I provided) is related to both
cancer & microbials. So I want to check, how immune system recognize
cancer cells & at what state?
Kumar
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"Trophoblasts are invasive, eroding, and metastasizing cells of the
placenta.
Trophoblasts mediate the implantation of the embryo into the
endometrium, but they are **never incorporated into the mother's body
or the fetus. They are not "fetal" cells.**
Trophoblasts become inert during pregnancy and are completely rejected
by the fetus and mother at delivery. They can be seen as the thin
membrane covering the fetus at birth, the
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trophoblast"
**How they can?
Kelley Eidem
You need to understand that when it comes to controversial topics
regarding cancer and other health subjects, Wikipedia tows the line.
Trophoblasts and cancer are one of those controversial subjects.
Kumar
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Many currently considered aspects can be unclear or contraversial. For
this reason, these discussions may help.
My first question still pending, when/how immune defence recognize
cancer cells as odd cells & start responding on them.
Kelley Eidem
It's possible that the immune system MIGHT help to prevent a cancer
from getting started. This would be before the cancer is known to
exist in the person. In other words, there is the possibility that the
immune system could help to prevent a cancer cell from fully
activating. Nitric oxide has the ability, for example, to turn off
cancer cells according to some research. (It's been years since I read
about it, so I don't have a link.)
But once the cancer cell has reached full bloom, the immune system
does not recognize the cancer cell as an invader. So, immune cells
can't have any effect on turning off cancer cells.
Kumar
increasing transcapillary movements by endotheliul function which can
turn off cancer cells?
As such, probably vasocontraction or decreased transcapallary
movements or endothliul dysfunction may be related to cancer?
> But once the cancer cell has reached full bloom, the immune system
> does not recognize the cancer cell as an invader. So, immune cells
> can't have any effect on turning off cancer cells.- Hide quoted text -
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Immune system is unable to handle full bloom cancer cells is one
aspect, but still immune response continues is another aspect. Iron or
other nutrients withholding to cancer cells to starve and kill them,
seems to justy continious immune response though can be weak.
Which type of immune response can be possible to cancer--chronic
infectious inflammation type or chronic non-infectious inflammation
type, in view of cancer cells being our cells?
Btw, do we have data of ultimate cancer outcome of medically
intervened & non-intervened cancer patients?
SanHolo
every cancer type. In general, tumors express antigens that can be
recognized by the immune system, however weakly, but cancer cells
develop strategies to avoid being detected, such as down-regulating
MHC-expression, non-expression of tumor antigens, production of immuno-
suppressive mediators and so on.
Passive Immunotherapy and the like to boost the immune response (even
to full bloom cancer, which can be recognized by the immune system
BTW) is broadly being researched but still in early stages.
I don't think that there are studies of treated vs. untreated cancer
patients since no ethics committee would allow such a study, I hope. :)
Kumar
Thanks. How it is related to immune response; withholding of iron or
may be other nutrients to cancer cells esp. in tumor/dormant stages--
somewhat anemia of chronic disease?
If it is unethical to conduct such studies or collect data of outcome
of treated & non-treated patients, how it can be sure what is causing
what, medication & immune response?
SanHolo
>
> Thanks. How it is related to immune response; withholding of iron or
> may be other nutrients to cancer cells esp. in tumor/dormant stages--
> somewhat anemia of chronic disease?
I don't understand the question. Withholding iron (or purging it i.e.
through bleeding) affects primarily the red blood cells and not the
immune system. However, since your body gets robbed of strength, the
immune system will also be affected, but not specifically.
> If it is unethical to conduct such studies or collect data of outcome
> of treated & non-treated patients, how it can be sure what is causing
> what, medication & immune response?
This is done through in vitro testing and in animal models (mostly
mouse models).
Kumar
> On Apr 17, 4:46 am, Kumar <lordshiva5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Thanks. How it is related to immune response; withholding of iron or
> > may be other nutrients to cancer cells esp. in tumor/dormant stages--
> > somewhat anemia of chronic disease?
>
> I don't understand the question. Withholding iron (or purging it i.e.
> through bleeding) affects primarily the red blood cells and not the
> immune system. However, since your body gets robbed of strength, the
> immune system will also be affected, but not specifically.
Eugene D. Weinberg
Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA
http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/EID/vol5no3/weinberg.htm
> > If it is unethical to conduct such studies or collect data of outcome
> > of treated & non-treated patients, how it can be sure what is causing
> > what, medication & immune response?
>
> This is done through in vitro testing and in animal models (mostly
> mouse models).
Thanks.