BALONEY--- Wide Distribution of a High-Virulence Borrelia burgdorferi Clone in Europe
Mort Zuckerman
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Subject: BALONEY--- Wide Distribution of a High-Virulence Borrelia
burgdorferi Clone in Europe and N
Date: Jun 16, 2008 6:17 AM
This is a bunch of baloney.
Host-adaptation through antigenic variation changes all after a person
is infected.
You know how spirochetes tend to colonize certain tissues or can even
be PHARMED
to be certain tissue-tropic?
(See Dave Dorward's work)
This new OspC nonsense is the crooks' response to the Blumenthal
assertion that
the crooks excluded the "opinion" that "OspC is a potential vaccine
due to the fact that it is associated with the BRAIN DISEASE kind of
Lyme"
(which is the real disease, as opposed to Steere's Knees or OspA-
Disease), or
as described by the John Dunn Brookhaven Gang:
http://www.actionlyme.org/JohnDunn_Brookhaven.htm
Obviously Brookhaven (DoD and DoE) have a very different idea of what
Lyme is.
No matter what, they continue to try to narrow disease definitions.
Now they're
saying only certain kinds of OspC are virulent. BALONEY. They all
undergo antigenic
variation constantly.
Don't believe a single thing the Lyme crooks or the CDC publish.
'No matter what the topic.
It's ALWAYS BULLSHIT that leads to NO TREATMENT.
The latest out of that asshole McSweegan was meant to be
scaremongering about superinfections=
antibiotic-resistant flesh eating bugs resulting in huge tissue loses,
including
limbs.
THIS IS NOT OUR PROBLEM
The effing MDs should start washing their hands.
It's a hygeine problem that is associated with sloppy hospital work,
swine lagoons
and the like, but is not our fault and we should not be the victims of
it.
Besides, this "resistant bugs" argument works well for Kaiser-
Permanente
et al.
It is not our problem and not our fault and not a legitimate excuse to
deprive LYME
VICTIMS ONLY of treatment.
It's just more fairy-ass cowardly bullshit by these incompetent greedy
morons
who will say anything for a buck, as if to bullshit for pay was the
New Integrity.
Kathleen M. Dickson
http://www.actionlyme.org
-----Original Message-----
>From:
>Sent: Jun 11, 2008 11:24 AM
>To: Spin...@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [SpinLyme] Wide Distribution of a High-Virulence Borrelia burgdorferi
Clone in Europe and N
>
>Vaccine?
>
>http://www.cdc.gov/eid/content/14/7/pdfs/07-0880.pdf
>
>Wide Distribution of a High-Virulence Borrelia burgdorferi Clone in
>Europe and North America[b]
>
>Emerg Infect Dis.[b]2008 Jul; [Epub ahead of print]
>
>The A and B clones of Borrelia burgdorferi sensu stricto, distinguished by
>outer surface protein C (ospC) gene sequences, are commonly associated with
>disseminated Lyme disease.
>
>To resolve phylogenetic relationships among isolates, we sequenced 68
>isolates from Europe and North America at 1 chromosomal locus (16S–23S
>ribosomal RNA spacer) and 3 plasmid loci (ospC, dbpA, and BBD14).
>
>The ospC-A clone appeared to be highly prevalent on both continents, and
>isolates of this clone were uniform in DNA sequences, which suggests a
>recent trans-oceanic migration. The genetic homogeneity of ospC-A isolates
>was confirmed by sequences at 6 additional chromosomal housekeeping loci
>(gap, alr, glpA, xylB, ackA, and tgt).
>
>In contrast, the ospC-B group consists of genotypes distinct to each
>continent, indicating geographic isolation.
>
>We conclude that the ospC-A clone has dispersed rapidly and widely in the
>recent past. The spread of the ospC-A clone may have contributed, and likely
>continues to contribute, to the rise of Lyme
>disease incidence.
>
>
>
Sewer Rat
> Don't believe a single thing the Lyme crooks or the CDC publish.
> 'No matter what the topic.
> It's ALWAYS BULLSHIT that leads to NO TREATMENT.
If one really wants treatment with ABX and no doc wants to prescribe it,
then there is the choice to order it via the internet or buy it in a
country where you can buy ABX without prescription.
the 3rd Man
Possibly a risky, if not dangerous thing to do. There are many fake
medications out there...even antibiotics.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6718645.stm
Awhile back, I remember cautioning a resident of Norway against
this...telling him that many of the capsules were actually filled with
wallboard compound...and someday, at the rate he was self-medicating,
he ws going to crap a condominium.
(Notice the "scientific" arguments from the "scientist", above)?
Sewer Rat
> Possibly a risky, if not dangerous thing to do. There are many fake
> medications out there...even antibiotics.
Yeah, I would not recommend it, but if one REALLY insists.
I am also reminded of that story about a woman who allegedly has/had
Lyme, but who did not get any (long-term) treatment, and who eventually
was in a wheelchair and couldn't do much anymore. The family could not
effort to see one of those expensive so-called "llmds", which I believe
already had cost them thousands of $$, and for which they had to travel.
In such a case I am wondering: if you TRULY believe a family member
might be dying of Lyme and you TRULY believe antibiotics could help,
then why not try to get some antibiotics one way or the other. Instead
they just seem to prefer to moan about the "bad doctors" and that they
are responsible for the declining health of their family member.
the 3rd Man
> In such a case I am wondering: if you TRULY believe a family member
> might be dying of Lyme and you TRULY believe antibiotics could help,
> then why not try to get some antibiotics one way or the other. Instead
> they just seem to prefer to moan about the "bad doctors" and that they
> are responsible for the declining health of their family member.
Yes.
This is sometimes the sad and unfortunate reality for many...but the
"belief" may, in fact, be simply that...a belief.
Mort Zuckerman
Excellent point.
BTW, why do you correspond with this fool, 3rdman, who
offers no scientific FACTS to sci.med.diseases.lyme
??
3rd is a jealous moron, which is why he never posts
or even attempts to argue anything scientific. He
comes out here criticizing me anonymously, apparently
unaware that everyone can see that attacking the
messenger of TRUTH about "Lyme Disease," is still
irrelevant to the TRUTH about "Lyme Disease" in addition
to being the hallmark of cowardice (evil)?
LOL
He never even attempts to disprove any of the science
because he does not understand it.
Sillier still, no matter how many times I make
him aware of his jealous, pinheaded foolishness,
he never relents.
What's that they say about people who perform
the same idiot stunts over and over again, getting
the same non-result?
itsybi...@gmail.com
But I do not understand what is meant by "clone" in this context. I
know what a clone is, but I do not understand how that could apply
here, so I have to think I simply do not understand how they are using
that word.
Can anyone explain what they mean?
Mort Zuckerman
http://www.actionlyme.org/BARBOUR_MUTANTS_1992.htm
It's a bunch of baloney meant to have us believe that the
Ray Dattwyler OspC patent is the only kind of Relapsing
Fever anyone can have.
You are watching a do-over of LYMErix, only this time
it will be over Dattwyler's OspC patent.
the 3rd Man
Not sure what you mean here, Itchy...the only use of the word 'clone'
that I can see is by Kathleen (Mort Zuckerman. There really is NO
point in asking "Mort" to explain).
I posted this same article earlier here...I do not see the word used
within the text or ttitle. (So, I am not sure that this is even being
properly used)...
Out of my depth...but a quick Google reveals use of the word in a
biological sense (other than "cloning")...if it is being used this
way...I am guessing it is attempting to refer to a common genetic
ancestry of European and US disease.
Dunno.
the 3rd Man
itsybi...@gmail.com
it does use the word Clone in this case.
3rd, Wiki said: "Clone (cell biology), a group of identical cells
naturally derived from a common mother cell; of significance in
vertebrate physiology, and concepts related to immunology and cancer
biology."
hmmm...there was nothing about how it applies to bacteria, I'll have
to look into that.
Now, it seems Kathleen, you are comparing the 'clones' with Barbour's
"mutant" study. Not sure if it is fitting together for me or not in my
mind...but that could be me. I am wondering if his antibiotic
resistant mutants are really the same thing as a 'clone'. Something is
missing.
Now, I have always thought, not that my layman's opinion makes a lot
of difference, that BB could have gotten here from Europe on ticks and/
or on or in rats and mice that came over on immigration boats.
Therefore, if THIS definition of clone just means that Euro and US
Borrelia S.L. come from common ancestors, that would make sense to me.
But I guess I just do not understand why they are calling them clones
NOW.
I personally do not doubt they will go in an OSP C direction with
treatment/vaccine. There has been a lot of information pointing in
that direction. I personally have interest in OSP C because I still
make IgM antibodies to it, and my neurological condition continues to
advance. We're going to do a PCR on joint fluid from my wrist here
coming up, that should be interesting.
Mort Zuckerman
> Kathleen is right, I checked the pdf link she listed from the cdc and
> it does use the word Clone in this case.
>
> 3rd, Wiki said: "Clone (cell biology), a group of identical cells
> naturally derived from a common mother cell; of significance in
> vertebrate physiology, and concepts related to immunology and cancer
> biology."
A clone of borrelia is when it replicates itself (divides into
two identical "daughter" cells, which absolute replication
of the DNA (linear chromosome and plasmid DNA).
>
> hmmm...there was nothing about how it applies to bacteria, I'll have
> to look into that.
>
> Now, it seems Kathleen, you are comparing the 'clones' with Barbour's
> "mutant" study. Not sure if it is fitting together for me or not in my
> mind...but that could be me. I am wondering if his antibiotic
> resistant mutants are really the same thing as a 'clone'. Something is
> missing.
What Barbour says is that they all undergo antigenic variation
all the time. A bacterium may clone itself, but that does not
negate the fact that the bacterium may first undergo antigenic
variation before cloning itself.
> Now, I have always thought, not that my layman's opinion makes a lot
> of difference, that BB could have gotten here from Europe on ticks and/
> or on or in rats and mice that came over on immigration boats.
Borrelia burgdorferi is native to the USA and was exported
to Europe.
The crooks agree.
> Therefore, if THIS definition of clone just means that Euro and US
> Borrelia S.L. come from common ancestors, that would make sense to me.
> But I guess I just do not understand why they are calling them clones
> NOW.
It'a BALONEY. They're only telling half the story in order
to say their vaccine will be fine and best for all cases of
"Lyme Disease" when we clearly know that they all undergo
antigenic variation all the time.
http://www.actionlyme.org/THE_CENTRAL_LYME_RICO_PATENTS.htm
Look at the BARBOUR PATENT about the immune system being
"COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED" with mutants.
>
> I personally do not doubt they will go in an OSP C direction with
> treatment/vaccine. There has been a lot of information pointing in
> that direction. I personally have interest in OSP C because I still
> make IgM antibodies to it, and my neurological condition continues to
> advance. We're going to do a PCR on joint fluid from my wrist here
> coming up, that should be interesting.
Don't listen to 3rd. He refuses to learn anything because to do
so would not be "ALL ABOUT MEEEeee!!!"
It takes HUMILITY to say you don't understand something and
then make the effort to go look it up.
The true humility of a true scientist.
Kathleen
http://www.actionlyme.org
itsybi...@gmail.com
> > naturally derived from a common mother cell; of significance in
> > vertebrate physiology, and concepts related to immunology and cancer
> > biology."
>
> A clone of borrelia is when it replicates itself (divides into
> two identical "daughter" cells, which absolute replication
> of the DNA (linear chromosome and plasmid DNA).
>
>
OK…wouldn’t that mean all spirochetes are clones, though?
Don’t they reproduce that way?
I’m sorry, I’m not being a smart ass. I’m sincerely curious. I’m a
computer geek, not a biologist. While I am certainly not dumb, I am
having a difficult time with this. I guess I am confused because I
thought the bacteria split into two as a part of their reproduction
cycle, which is when they are most vulnerable to antibiotics.
I may be being dense about this, but I don’t know how that natural
process gets them the term clone, or why it would even be used.
The last two weeks at my job have been awful, so I may just be
processing this slower than usual, I just know I am confused.
> > Now, it seems Kathleen, you are comparing the 'clones' with Barbour's
> > "mutant" study. Not sure if it is fitting together for me or not in my
> > mind...but that could be me. I am wondering if his antibiotic
> > resistant mutants are really the same thing as a 'clone'. Something is
> > missing.
>
> What Barbour says is that they all undergo antigenic variation
> all the time. A bacterium may clone itself, but that does not
> negate the fact that the bacterium may first undergo antigenic
> variation before cloning itself.
>
OK…that I get. Cloning does not negate antigenic variation one way or
another.
That part makes sense.
> > Now, I have always thought, not that my layman's opinion makes a lot
> > of difference, that BB could have gotten here from Europe on ticks and/
> > or on or in rats and mice that came over on immigration boats.
>
> Borrelia burgdorferi is native to the USA and was exported
> to Europe.
>
> The crooks agree.
>
While I know this has been around at a low rate for a VERY long time
before becoming a serious health issue, wasn’t it documented in
Germany a loooong time before it was documented here? Dr. Alfred
Buchwald first described acrodermatitis chronica atrophicans, a skin
disease found in tick-born Borrelia infection in Europe, in 1883.
There are US records of lyme symptoms from before? OR are only some
Euro strains children of US strains and vice verse?
Because it seems to me in the age we live in that ticks or bacteria
could easily travel back and forth since people go all over the world
now quickly. A nymph tick w/ BB could attach to you in Connecticut
today and you could get on a plane and it could drop off in a few days
in Spain and you could be completely unaware that this happened. Then
it could get its next blood meal from a local. Now both you and the
local have a BB infection.
> > Therefore, if THIS definition of clone just means that Euro and US
> > Borrelia S.L. come from common ancestors, that would make sense to me.
> > But I guess I just do not understand why they are calling them clones
> > NOW.
>
> It'a BALONEY. They're only telling half the story in order
> to say their vaccine will be fine and best for all cases of
> "Lyme Disease" when we clearly know that they all undergo
> antigenic variation all the time.
>
> http://www.actionlyme.org/THE_CENTRAL_LYME_RICO_PATENTS.htm
> Look at the BARBOUR PATENT about the immune system being
> "COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED" with mutants.
>
>
Well, I don’t think any vaccine could work for BB. At least not with
how limited our collective knowledge is concerning the chetes.
Not from what I have researched.
>
> > I personally do not doubt they will go in an OSP C direction with
> > treatment/vaccine. There has been a lot of information pointing in
> > that direction. I personally have interest in OSP C because I still
> > make IgM antibodies to it, and my neurological condition continues to
> > advance. We're going to do a PCR on joint fluid from my wrist here
> > coming up, that should be interesting.
>
> Don't listen to 3rd. He refuses to learn anything because to do
> so would not be "ALL ABOUT MEEEeee!!!"
>
> It takes HUMILITY to say you don't understand something and
> then make the effort to go look it up.
>
> The true humility of a true scientist.
>
I know the two of you fight and don’t get along. Right now I am going
to be completely self-absorbed and not get involved in the argument.
Not only am I tired but work really really really has been a bitch
lately.
I can only comment about how I feel about learning, humility, etc.
Well, I know if I don’t ask, I will not learn. Which is why I am
asking questions.
If I don’t find the answers, I will not learn. Which is why I go look
things up when I don’t understand…in this case, I just cannot find the
term clone being used as they are using it.
Even at my job, I never have a hard time saying I don’t know
everything and sometimes have to do some research or talk or someone
who might have been through it, or serve as a resource.
You have to have humility to say when you are wrong or don’t know. If
you don’t, how can you learn?
the 3rd Man
> Kathleen is right...
Well, looks like she copied it correctly, anyway...(accidents will
happen, I guess)...
> Now, I have always thought, not that my layman's opinion makes a lot
> of difference, that BB could have gotten here from Europe on ticks and/
> or on or in rats and mice that came over on immigration boats.
> Therefore, if THIS definition of clone just means that Euro and US
> Borrelia S.L. come from common ancestors, that would make sense to me.
That interpretation seems to make sense within the context of the
article:
"What is surprising is these ospC type A strains in the U.S. and in
Europe are genetically almost identical," Qiu says. "So this type is
quite unusual in its ability to colonize new habitats. ... This is
very strong evidence for this type having a very broad ecological
niche in terms of the species that can carry it."
the 3rd Man
> It takes HUMILITY to say you don't understand something and
> then make the effort to go look it up.
LOL.
If anyone noticed, I said that I was "out of my depth"...but
nonetheless, tried to look it up for Itchy.
Mort Zuckerman
This is basic science, you idiot.
You should have looked it up 12 years ago.