Reply to "Chuck's" question re Lyme vaccine

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LymeRayja

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May 4, 2006, 9:20:58 AM5/4/06
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Sending this to the top for Dr McChuck

From: LymeRayja - view profile
Date: Thurs, May 4 2006 9:39 am
Email: "LymeRayja" <lymera...@yahoo.co.uk>
Groups: sci.med.diseases.lyme, misc.health.alternative,
alt.support.child-protective-services, talk.politics.medicine,
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Chuck wrote:


. <Also, why are you against a vaccine?>

It's not a question of people being "against a vaccine" per se. People
are against a vaccine which is ineffective, dangerous, activates or
re-activates dormant Lyme and so on. Further, we are against the
falsification of the diagnostic criteria that inevitably will accompany

the launch of this vaccine. The status quo is that no serological tests

are sensitive enough to rule our Lyme disease, and therefore the
diagnosis must be clinical, in BOTH early and late or chronic Lyme. The

vaccine trials and launch will require the medical profession to accept

the lie that serology can rule out Lyme, otherwise there will be no
yardstick by which people can measure of its safety or effectiveness.
The Americans have already had this experience - the useless vaccine,
the mass class action lawsuits, people disabled with Lyme symptoms
after receiving the vaccine, the Dressler-Stere criteria that has
condemned tens of thousands, if not more, to a life of hell as their
disease is no longer detected nor recognised.


You've already had this in the States; we don't want to repeat it here.

This is what Baxter say about their planned new European vacine:


"Baxter scientists have developed a candidate OspA chimaeric vaccine
comprising three recombinant OspA antigens covering the 6 predominant
OspA serotypes. These novel recombinant antigens are produced as
lipoproteins in E.coli. Baxter's chimaeric OspA vaccine will target
all three B. burgdorferi s.l. genospecies (B. burgdorferi s.s., B.
afzelii and B. garinii) and afford protection against all major
clinical forms of Lyme disease, including invasive disease, found in
the USA and Europe and perhaps worldwide."


How can they speak so confidently about "the 6 predominant OspA
serotypes" as if we already know all there is to know about such
serotypes? Are we saying that we know everything about every Borrelia
strain that causes Lyme? We certainly do not. You see from my post
above Dr Postic of the Pasteur Institute has written that he cannot
envisage any successful vaccine even based on what we ALREADY know
about the heterogeneity of serotypes, much less about serotypes of
strains (or even species) of borrelia we do not know about.


Notice how Baxter talk about targetting "all three B. burgdorferi sl
genoxpecies" and then they name only sensu stricto, afzelli and
garinii. Why is there no talk about other species such as B.
valaisiana, for example, which is very common in Europe? Valaisiana IS
known to be pathogenic; for example, it has been recovered from EM
rashes.


There are many other factors that were brought to light during the
American research in the Lymerix period, and the run-up to it, that are

being ignored here yet again. For example, it's known that Bb switches
its antigen production to express mainly OspC rather than OspA when it
enters a mammal, including man. If the vaccine is meant to work by
"disinfecting" the tick, ie killing off the Bb in the tick, while it is

still expressing Osp A, what is the use when it is known that the
switch to OspC expression on the outer surface of Bb does not happen
suddenly once the Bb is inside our bodies, but begins **in the body of
the tick**. The blood of the bitten human rushes into the tick and
initiates the conversion process from OspA expression to OspC, while
STILL IN THE TICK.


It is like having an enemy coming at you with both aircraft and tanks
at once, and you use your anti-tank stuff to neutralise the land
threat, then rest on your laurels, ignoring the fact that the enemy is
about to bomb you to smithereens from the air. Even if the antibodies
generated by an Osp A- based vaccine were capable of neutralising every

single Bb expressing Osp A in the tick's body (which seems unlikely,
especially as some ticks sontain thousands of Bb organisms and of
course, several different strains or species may be present in the same

tick)...but even if it were possible, what on earth use would it be,
against those Bb microbes that had already started to convert to Osp C,

in the tick?


Ken Alibek, the former Soviet top biowarfare scientists who defected to

the American side just before the Berlin Wall came down, says that the
difference between the US and the Soviet approaches to biowar
experimentation is that the Americans never worked with agents for
which they had neither vaccine nor cure.


So, either Alibek is lying, or you and your colleagues in the US
Defense dept. ALREADY have an effective vaccine, or a cure, "Chuck".


So which is it?


I noticed that although Lymerix was promoted by the Steere camp and by
US public health officials (including McSweegan) as being perfectly
safe and effective, it was never given to the US military. Why not?


Why do British forest rangers in known hyperendemic areas with
frequent, multiple tick bites have (according to the Steere camp),
blood full of antibodies but never get sick?
Why do local people living near and visiting the forest, families
picnicking with their children, outdoor workers etc, get
**occasionally** bitten by ticks, have blood with little or no
antibodies, yet get sick as a dog?


Who will tell the hundreds of thousands of people who will be exposed
this spring and summer to this danger in Britain and other European
countries, that it even exists?


Who will tell the tens of thousands of people who work outdoors all
day, every day, in parks, maintain the grounds of council estates, tend

private or insitutional gardens, work on farms, pleasure areas, zoos,
summer camps, holiday parks, school grounds etc etc etc, that there is
a danger from tick bites , how to take protective measures, and what to

do if they think they have been bitten?


Who will tell the country's parents and teachers about one of the
highest risk groups - children (because children forever wander into
tall grass and brush where adults might not normally go).

> "Oh, and we told the Russian Embassy not to let
> you back into their country and why."

I have never communicated with the Russian eembassy but IMHO the
Russians (and scientists from other parts of the former Soviet Union)
already know quite a lot about Lyme.


> lol, I am sure Mr. McSweegan is really shaking in his boots.

I think we are focussing too much on McSweegan here. I say this even
if it turns out that he is the one who is responsible for the threat to

my children and the attempt on my friend's life. I say this because
this whole mess weas never the doing of one man, but is a policy of the

US and other NATO governments.

If we focus just on McSweegan there is a danger that the bigger picture

may be missed. The US government may make a Lyndie England out of him,
and in fact continue with cover-ups and denial of treatment and
diagnosis, and the persecution and silencing of our LLMDs, and of
people like myself and many others who are speaking out.
(http://blog.france2.fr/MaladieDeLyme -scroll down for English
version).

Yukon King

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May 4, 2006, 12:35:17 PM5/4/06
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LymeRayja wrote:

> If we focus just on McSweegan there is a danger that the bigger picture
>
> may be missed. The US government may make a Lyndie England out of him,
> and in fact continue with cover-ups and denial of treatment and
> diagnosis, and the persecution and silencing of our LLMDs, and of
> people like myself and many others who are speaking out.
> (http://blog.france2.fr/MaladieDeLyme -scroll down for English
> version).

You are what we call really, seriously, clinically FUCKED UP.

You seem completely unable to separate your juvenile fantasies from
reality. I'm sure it must be very exciting for you to project yourself
into some sort of cloak and dagger struggle where you are striking a
blow for truth and good...


...but the reality is that you are a pathetic paranoid idiot
relentlessly whacking away on your keyboard...and no one really cares
except other LOONs like yourself.


Get help.


And stop embarrassing genuine Lyme patients.


How's that whole "hacking" thing going, there, hon?

LMAO.

Chuck P Adams

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May 4, 2006, 1:17:26 PM5/4/06
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if you knew that someone was going to mutilate your genitals with a
pair of hedgeclippers, would you prefer that they {a} chop off your
admittedly miniscule penis but leave the balls attached (assuming you
have balls) {b} take the balls but leave the micropenis or {c} cut off
the whole pathetic assemblage leaving you with an androgenous blank
space and a catheterized peehole?

I'm taking a poll!

also, given the choice would you prefer rusty or well-oiled?

LymeRayja

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May 4, 2006, 8:43:48 PM5/4/06
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I see the demented parrot Yukon King has squawked again.

Now shut your silly beak. I was addressing "Chuck", not you."Chuck"
asked a question about the vaccine. Now it's his turn to answer.

Though I really doubt he can overcome his overwhelming cowardice and
give a coherent answer.

I never knew the US Navy had such cowards.
Lisa

Newsgroup Leader Kathleen ActionLyme

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May 27, 2006, 3:26:10 AM5/27/06
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Keeping this post alive. Lisa was a threat to the new OspA vaccine,
which is not so much a government question, but a bigbusiness dot guv
question, as was LYMErix. They intended to force it onto the European
market for the reason, they say, that Europeans are stupider than
Americans.

Kathleen
http://actionlyme.org

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