Somebody REALLY doesn't like Dr. Larry Rosenthal
David
"celebrity dentist" Dr. Larry Rosenthal of New York, and they have
good reason!
<a href="http://www.baddentist.com/">www.baddentist.com</a>
Steven Bornfeld
Some folks really have too much time on their hands.
Steve
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
Re: Somebody REALLY doesn't like Dr. Larry Rosenthal
Patient Versus Dentist
Discussions at sci.med.dentistry.
Live on usenet or archived at www.deja.com
Come join others in a lively discussion about patient conflict
resolution and here at DentalTown too.
Joel M. Eichen DDS
On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
>Check out WWW.BADDENTIST.COM ! Some people really doesn't like
>"celebrity dentist" Dr. Larry Rosenthal of New York, and they have
>good reason!
>
REPLYat Sci.med.dentistry
Interesting.
Let's discuss this in an intelligent manner. Yes, dental disputes do
arise. First off, we know who Dr. Rosenthal is. To be fair, I assume
this is you. Is this correct?
David D. Darnot
W. 55th Street
New York, NY 10019
--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA
DISCLAIMER FOLLOWS:
*********
Dental health-related material
is provided for information purposes
only and does not necessarily
represent endorsement by or an official
position of the SciMedDentistry gang
or any other official agency either
actual or fictitious or Steve Mancuso.
Advice on the treatment or care
of an individual patient should
be obtained through consultation
with a dentist who has examined
that patient or is familiar with
that patient's dental history.
STANDARD DISCLAIMER
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
<<on the webpage>>
I paid over ten thousand dollars to be treated by the world-famous Dr.
Rosenthal, but my new smile was made by some unknown associate of his,
who actually told me that he doesn't get paid enough to be able to
afford to pay his dental school loans! And I wound up stuck with
veneers that were blocking me from biting down!"
REPLY:
There is a problem here. Perhaps you do not mean veneers. Upper
veneers (as in the photo) cannot interfere with the bite as veneers
are on the front (labial surface, in dental speak) while the bite in
on the inside (lingual surface in dental speak).
Please explain!
Joel
On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
When I went to see him, I asked him whether I could remove his veneers
if I decided that I wasn't happy with them, and go back to displaying
my regular teeth, which other dentists had told me is normally true.
He told me that I could do so, 'absolutely.'
REPLY:
Depends on the preparation. The way I prepare teeth there is no going
back, but less problems in the future.
Joel
On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
He wouldn't even talk to me or return my calls! After three months of
calling and writing to him, he finally sent a letter offering no
explanation for the permanent damage he'd done to my teeth, and
saying, 'I do not believe that there is any reason why we should
refund your money. I make every effort to please each and every one
of our patients.
REPLY:
So presumably you are headed into court, right?
>On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
BadDentist.Com is a 100% free public service, created specifically to
warn patients of the numerous complaints about Dr. Rosenthal and the
Rosenthal Group, and to collect complaints about Dr. Rosenthal and the
Rosenthal Group from patients.
REPLY:
Jeez I'd be careful with this if I were you. This is not exactly free
speech you know!
>On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
**
Why see a dentist who has already had his license suspended at least
once? Why see a dentist who has since then received all of these
complaints, and refused to take any responsibility for any of them, or
in many cases, even to respond to the specific complaints made at all?
>On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
Do not confuse price with quality.
******
On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
A THREE-TOOTH BRIDGE MADE BY ANOTHER DENTIST WHO IS NOT AFFILIATED
WITH THE ROSENTHAL GROUP.
WHAT????? Another dentist?????
I been bamboozled!
You wrote:
Copyright ã 2003. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. THESE COMPLAINTS ARE MADE
WITHOUT WAIVER OF DOCTER-PATIENT CONFIDENTIALITY, WHICH IS HEREBY
EXPLICITLY RESERVED. THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE TOP OF THIS PAGE INCLUDES
A THREE-TOOTH BRIDGE MADE BY ANOTHER DENTIST WHO IS NOT AFFILIATED
WITH THE ROSENTHAL GROUP. THE LEFT LATERAL INCISOR AND BOTH CANINES
PICTURED WERE PERFECTLY HEALTHY, NORMAL TEETH, UNTIL DR. ROSENTHAL
PERSONALLY MUTILATED THEM. ALL OF THE COMPLAINTS DESCRIBED ON THIS
WEBSITE WERE MADE BY A SINGLE PATIENT OF DOCTOR ROSENTHAL AND THE
ROSENTHAL GROUP, EXCEPT THAT THE SUSPENSION OF HIS LICENSE, ACCORDING
TO DR. ROSENTHAL HIMSELF, WAS FOR THE CHARGE OF ABUSE OF HIS
PRESCRIPTION FORMS, WHICH WAS A CHARGE MADE BY SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE
COMPLAINING PATIENT IN THIS CASE. The complaining patient in the
present case requested only that Dr. Rosenthal refund his money and
pay the medical expenses of treating the permanent physical injury
caused by Dr. Rosenthal, and this request was ignored by Dr.
Rosenthal, who refused to see the patient, refused to return the
patient's telephone calls, and did not respond to the patient's
complaints at all for more than three months. Finally, Dr. Rosenthal
responded by a letter, in which he claimed, "I do not believe that
there is any reason why we should refund your money. I make every
effort to please each and every one of our patients. If I felt that
we had failed you in some way due to anything that we have done, I
would certainly be willing to consider some accommodation. However, I
simply do not believe, in this instance, that we failed you in any
way." When the patient told Dr. Rosenthal he would report Dr.
Rosenthal to the authorities and tell others of his experience, Dr.
Rosenthal hired an attorney to intimidate the patient by threatening
to sue him if he proceded. Dr. Rosenthal and his attorney have both
been asked to comment if they found any of the specific statements on
this page to be false, and neither has made any objection to any
specific statement on this page.
On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
http://pro.enetation.co.uk/acomments.php?user=creamy&commentid=106511849407744289&log=1
>On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
Its New York City!
David, are you Veronica?
***
Tracing route to w216.z066088193.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net [66.88.193.216]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 256 ms 262 ms 275 ms nas21.Philadelphia1.Level3.net
[209.244.42.149]
2 268 ms 275 ms 276 ms
gige7-0-2.hsipaccess1.Philadelphia1.Level3.net [63.215.7.2]
3 260 ms 262 ms 275 ms ge-6-1-0.mp2.Philadelphia1.level3.net
[64.159.3.29]
4 284 ms 275 ms 262 ms so-6-1-0.bbr2.NewYork1.Level3.net
[209.247.8.66]
5 256 ms 262 ms 262 ms ge-7-0-0.edge1.NewYork1.level3.net
[64.159.4.150]
6 270 ms 262 ms 262 ms xo-level3-oc12.NewYork1.Level3.net
[209.244.160.178]
7 254 ms 262 ms 263 ms p5-1-0-3.RAR2.NYC-NY.us.xo.net
[65.106.3.69]
8 258 ms 263 ms 275 ms p4-1-0.MAR2.NYC-NY.us.xo.net
[65.106.3.10]
9 256 ms 262 ms 275 ms ge13-0.CLR1.NYC-NY.us.xo.net
[207.88.86.22]
10 268 ms 275 ms 275 ms w216.z066088193.nyc-ny.dsl.cnc.net
[66.88.193.216]
Trace complete.
On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
****
VISITS
Total 377
Average Per Day 15
Average Visit Length 0:51
Last Hour 1
Today 8
This Week 103
PAGE VIEWS
Total 664
Average Per Day 18
Average Per Visit 1.2
Last Hour 3
Today 12
This Week 125
Page Views
per Visit Site
Tracking Web
Browsers Tools
Day Month
Durations
Month
Time Zones
Language
OS
Domain
Organization
Browser Share
JavaScript
DHTML
PNG Graphics
Style Sheets [Edit Account]
[Refresh]
[Display Help]
[Export]
On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Steven Bornfeld
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. wrote:
> Maybe not. Let's hear the evidence first.
Of course. Thanks for ferreting out (you should pardon the expression)
the patient's name.
I can certainly understand why a patient might become this angry at a
dentist. However, there are ways of handling this. I just happen to
think that anonymous sniping is for 10 year olds.
Dr. Rosenthal is a very high-fee dentist, and acknowledged as an
authority on cosmetic dentistry. Patients have a right to expect
top-drawer treatment. There is very little on that web page that can
substantiate a charge that he has been "disfigured" for life.
What do we see? From the photo, it appears to me that the upper left
canine is missing. Why is this? It appears likely that there was some
kind of orthodontic treatment, and it appears that there may be a
bilateral posterior crossbite.
It seems unlikely that any of this occured in Dr. Rosenthal's office.
So what really happened? Why should anyone else care?
This seems to be a case for peer review or a lawyer. It seems to me
that the patient, if he actually lives on W.55th Street, is not living
in a low-rent district, and probably has access to legal redress. My
guess is that he's already tried this route and was told he has no case,
so this web page is his figurative foot stamping.
Does the patient want to dispute this?
Steve
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
"unhappy." That is no reason to smear Rosenthal or anyone else!
Joel
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 12:10:43 -0500, Steven Bornfeld
<marstev2nog...@earthlink.net> wrote:
--
David
the New York Times, January 31, 1999. The article was titled "The
Dentist as Celebrity" and appeared in the Sunday Styles section.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<2ocsqv867i86u7rut...@4ax.com>...
Tony Bad
referred to me because they were having problems with work completed by a well
known dentist to the stars and was totally shocked by the poor quality of the
work. There were inlays or onlays on every posterior tooth, almost all with
massive overhangs, and the anterior veneers and crowns were grossly
overcontoured.
I told the patient she needed to have almost every restoration in her mouth
redone, at which time she appeared like she was about to explode. I suggested
she needed to go back to the dentist to the stars and have them take care of
her.
It was quite a shock.
T
"Steven Bornfeld" <marstev2nog...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3FAE7513...@earthlink.net...
Steven Bornfeld
Tony Bad wrote:
> I don't know much about Dr. Rosenthal, but I can tell you I had a patient
> referred to me because they were having problems with work completed by a well
> known dentist to the stars and was totally shocked by the poor quality of the
> work. There were inlays or onlays on every posterior tooth, almost all with
> massive overhangs, and the anterior veneers and crowns were grossly
> overcontoured.
>
> I told the patient she needed to have almost every restoration in her mouth
> redone, at which time she appeared like she was about to explode. I suggested
> she needed to go back to the dentist to the stars and have them take care of
> her.
>
> It was quite a shock.
>
> T
>
I cannot (of course) totally discount that the guy's a bum. But I
think I would have heard--and not in the Styles section of the Times.
Steve
Orthodmd
I looked up the article in the NY Times and here it is, a little different than
most of you would suspect.
STYLE DESK
Polishing Their Image
By RICK MARIN (NYT) 2188 words
FRAMED in the waiting room of Drs. Marc Lowenberg and Gregg Lituchy is a New
York magazine cover, with their photograph, touting a listing of ''The 100 Best
Dentists in New York.'' It's a fake, a Spy magazine parody from 1991, when the
idea of celebrating dentists still seemed ridiculous.
''Because who would care?'' Dr. Lowenberg said. He and his partner show off the
cover at their Central Park South practice as a reminder of how far their
profession has come in the last eight years.
Now, people do care about dentists, especially cosmetic dentists, who promise
yet another form of makeover by whitening, straightening or substituting
inferior teeth with million-dollar -- or at least $20,000 -- smiles.
This booming business has made its most skilled, or best-known, practitioners
not only rich, with incomes up to seven figures, but quasi-famous. The old
stereotype of the dentist as bland, lab-coated nerd has been elbowed aside by
an aggressively mediagenic new breed eager to do some image polishing.
Like plastic surgeons of a certain class, these power dentists hobnob with
their celebrity patients, partying with Donald Trump, dining with Norman
Mailer. They show up in gossip columns and hire publicity agents to promote
their high-tech gum lasers and state-of-the-art laminating techniques -- even
sending out Hollywood-style head shots of themselves to advertise their star
quality. Gone is the sterile house of pain that used to be identified with
dental offices. The newly hip and patient-sensitive dentist operates in opulent
surroundings, with an attractive staff trained to deliver concierge services
like cappuccino and massage.
''With some of them, it's more about the publicity and trying to elbow their
way into high society and get invited to openings,'' said Dr. Richard Rashbaum,
a New York dentist who doesn't consider himself in the dental fast lane.
Dr. Timothy Rose, president of the American Dental Association, said the drop
in the decay rate among America's fluoridated generation had given dentists
time to focus on esthetics, as had the demand by aging boomers for ''the bionic
body.''
''Most dentists now practice some phase of cosmetic dentistry,'' he added.
A 1997 survey in the Journal of the American Dental Association found that 84
percent of dentists offered tooth whitening, a once-exotic procedure.
Membership in the American Academy of Cosmetic Dentistry, a professional group,
has doubled in five years, to 4,000.
Improved technology has expanded services from what dentists call the routine
of ''drill, fill and bill.'' Lasers can alter gum lines without sutures, or
bleach yellowing teeth almost instantly. Chipped, crooked or just plain bad
teeth can be concealed with fingernail-thin porcelain veneers. In the world of
bionic beauty, the ''smile lift'' has become as familiar as the face lift.
Traders in cocktail-party confidences can score points by announcing, ''Larry
did my teeth,'' referring to Dr. Larry Rosenthal, whose patients include Donald
Trump, Kathie Lee Gifford and a long roster of socialites.
Dr. Rose said, ''The guys who focus on discretionary services have a little bit
of that old salesman-type thing, to tell people why they have to do it.''
And do they ever. Seminars in ''practice management'' for business-minded
dentists can include such nonmedical recommendations as: When presenting a
patient with a treatment program, always use a Montblanc pen.
''It's no longer enough to have published in the journals,'' said Dr. Jeff
Golub-Evans, a New York dentist and frequent contributor to professional
journals. ''Now people want to know if you've been on 'The View.' '' Or they
want to know that Dr. Golub-Evans has ministered to the marquee mouths of Regis
Philbin and Wayne Newton.
Dr. Irwin Smigel, president of the American Society for Dental Aesthetics and,
after 40 years in practice, a dean in the field, is skeptical of his
high-flying colleagues.
Asked how he felt about dentists with publicity agents, he said: ''Very, very
leery. They're not interested in learning, just making a name for themselves.''
The high-end New York dentists -- not the (800) NU TEETH guys on the subway --
share several uncanny similarities. They tend to come from blue-collar
backgrounds. Many are ex-musicians and share a vision of the dentist as artist.
Their own fake teeth always look amazingly real.
But each has a unique style. And even a selective sampling reveals a distinct
typology.
The Smile Lifter
''I'm not God,'' Dr. Rosenthal said. ''I'm only a dentist.''
Some of his patients might disagree, with the ''only'' part anyway. Dr.
Rosenthal's same-day, $15,000 smile lift has attracted chief executives,
socialites and models and generated a puff piece in last November's Vogue hyped
with the cover line, ''Smile! How to Buy Cover-Girl Teeth.'' Another telling
detail of Dr. Rosenthal's resume is that he once worked as a lounge piano
player on a cruise ship.
He seems congenitally up. His motivational patter is nonstop, a live
infomercial. Imagine a kinetic cross between Michael Douglas and Tony Robbins.
''People ask me, 'Larry, when do you rest?' '' he said. ''I say, 'When I'm
preparing teeth and reshaping them!' ''
According to the New York State division of professional licensing, Dr.
Rosenthal's dental license was suspended for six months in 1987, although the
agency would not reveal the reason. Dr. Rosenthal explained that he had been
charged with a misuse of prescription forms to obtain sleeping and diet pills,
but he maintained that the forms had been stolen and used by someone else.
Dr. Rosenthal and his family spent last Easter in Palm Beach, Fla., as guests
at Mr. Trump's Mar-a-Lago resort. His 50th-birthday party in the Hamptons last
summer drew a guest list of patients sufficiently notable for an item in The
New York Post: Mr. Trump, Kathie Lee and Frank Gifford, and Sandy Korn Taylor
(a former Penthouse Pet).
But as for all celebrity dentists, it is the nonfamous who keep Dr. Rosenthal
in $40,000 laser machines. Enid Goodman, a nonfamous prospective patient, from
Bloomfield Hills, Mich., had come for a consultation in his wood-paneled office
on East 76th Street after reading the Vogue article. ''I checked out some
people in my area, but they didn't seem as good,'' she said, flattening her
vowels like rivets on an assembly line. Ms. Goodman had had plastic surgery six
weeks earlier -- ''so my face is kind of lopsided'' -- and said she now wanted
a ''brighter smile,'' adding, ''But I don't want to leave looking like Jim
Carrey!''
Unlikely. Dr. Rosenthal has built his reputation on natural-looking porcelain
veneers that can cost up to $2,000 apiece, almost double the fee of a
nonbrand-name dentist. His patients do not get the blinding, uniform laminates
derisively known in the trade as Chiclets. Later this year, he plans to roll
out a consumer product line bearing his name, including an electronic
toothbrush and dental floss that he said would remove stains between teeth.
''Did the Beatles know they were the Beatles?'' he asked, pondering his legacy.
''Did Muhammad Ali know he was Muhammad Ali? I'm not saying I'm in that league,
but . . . ''
The Players
''Celebrities are as nice, if not nicer, than average people,'' Dr. Lowenberg
said in the small private office he shares with Dr. Lituchy. The office is
decorated in a style that could be called early Carnegie Deli. Floor-to-ceiling
celebrity glossies are autographed with fulsome sentiments of thanks and
praise.
''I love going to him so much,'' said Courtney Cox, who first went to Dr.
Lowenberg when she was nobody and he was ''just this young hip guy'' willing to
put her on a payment plan.
Julianna Margulies found him in the Yellow Pages when she was a 21-year-old
waitress with a badly replaced front tooth.
''I went to two dentists who said we'd have to give you six new teeth,'' Ms.
Margulies said. ''Marc said, 'Just some tweaking, and we'll make it match.' ''
She still flies from Los Angeles to New York for checkups.
Norman Mailer, another devoted patient, enjoys Dr. Lowenberg's company enough
to go out to dinner with him.
''I've known a great many dentists over 75 years,'' Mr. Mailer said. ''And I
don't remember ever looking forward to seeing any of them.''
Show business people seem almost to regard Dr. Lowenberg as one of their own.
Four years ago, a patient who is a producer suggested that Dr. Lowenberg try
directing a play. ''It was about a man and a woman picking each other up in a
bar,'' Dr. Lowenberg recalled. It was staged way off Broadway, and though
hardly a critical or a commercial coup, the experience clarified his true
calling. ''When I had the choice of being a director and being a dentist,'' he
said, ''I knew I would never direct again.''
The low-key Dr. Lituchy came to work for Dr. Lowenberg as a Columbia University
dental student and still seems slightly awed by his charismatic mentor.
''He's a brilliant businessman,'' Dr. Lituchy, 40, said of Dr. Lowenberg, 52,
noting his idea to hire a masseur to rub anxious patients' shoulders in the
waiting room, or to massage their feet as they recline in the chair.
Dr. Lowenberg estimates that half his mid-six-figure income from his thousands
of patients comes from what he calls smile makeovers.
In the 1970's, a friend of his who is a physician and who treated the Rolling
Stones sent Ron Wood and Keith Richards his way. He has been treating dentally
underprivelged celebrities ever since.
Anne Marie Cseh, a Hungarian model, provided the startling before-and-after
shots gracing the outside of the Lowenberg-Lituchy press kit and video. Eastern
Europeans have supplied an influx of candidates for their services, as have rap
and hip-hop stars, many of them sent by the music impresario Russell Simmons,
himself a patient of Dr. Lowenberg. On the wall of fame is a signed, framed
cover of the February issue of Vibe, featuring Foxy Brown, a rap star.
''Half my practice is in this magazine and I have no idea who these people
are,'' Dr. Lowenberg exclaimed, sounding stunned that famous people exist who
are unknown to him.
Sy Presten, the practice's press agent, turns some of those famous names into
gossip items. But such is the status of the celebrity dentist that details of
Dr. Lowenberg's personal life made the papers when, a year ago, he started
dating a patient, Joan Finkelstein -- the society page ex-wife of Jim
Finkelstein, a former owner of the New York Law Review.
How did he like reading about his romance in Page Six? ''Initially, I was
embarrassed,'' he said. ''But you get used to it.''
The Dentist-Artist
Not in name only is Dr. Golub-Evans a hyphenate. Two business cards sit on his
receptionist's desk. One reads, ''Jeff Golub-Evans, D.D.S.'' The other is for
''Jeff Golub-Evans/Mixed Media Artist.''
The white exposed-brick walls of his airy brownstone on East 71st Street are
decorated with art (his own) and giant, blown-up magazine covers of Paulina
Porizkova, a model patient.
Indicating one of his woodcuts, he said, ''A bunch of these are in a museum of
Bali.'' He taught dentistry on the island last year.
Wearing a brown turtleneck, blue wool pinstripe pants and Doc Martens, he could
be a hip, well-paid college professor. Or a more respectable Lou Reed, with his
wary gaze, quietly intense manner and New York-inflected drone.
Like many of his generation, Dr. Golub-Evans, 55, hoped dental school would
help keep him out of Vietnam, he said. It didn't. Having joined the reserves in
1966 after finishing dental school, on the bad advice that reservists wouldn't
be called up, he was sent to Vietnam anyway.
Dr. Golub-Evans figures he has done 30,000 porcelain veneers. He calls the
people he treats clients rather than patients, ''because they're not sick,'' he
said, adding, ''This is the era of the designer dentist and dental salons.''
As a dentist-artist, he can also paint a broader, mega-picture of his trade.
''We make celebrity smiles, and other people then want to reproduce those
smiles,'' he said. ''We create the illusion of beauty, rather than the
reality.''
Charlie Ruff, DMD
Specialist in Orthodontics
Diplomate American Board of Orthodontics
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
dentists, and the opposite from the Big Boys ........
...and the reverse too!
Joel
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
our mission is to treat "our patients" not become SuperStars.
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
documents.
Suggestions:
- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.
Also, you can try Google Answers for expert help with your search.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
http://www.rosenthalgrp.com/fullshow/31.html
I am waiting for the images to load ,,,,,,,,,, its getting weird
,,,,,,, if they lifted his license, why would Rosenthal put it on this
webpage?
Joel
On 9 Nov 2003 16:41:20 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
Also noted is the crossover between "news" and "public relations."
Most of the Lasik Surgery/Dental/Medical Cosmetics are nothing more
than puff pieces paid for by the "advertisers."
Joel
--
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
destroyed "your evidence." So tell us why you dislike Dr. Rosenthal,
other than spittle accumulating between your teeth.
Joel
>On 8 Nov 2003 19:20:26 -0800, dar...@ureach.com (David) wrote:
--
Tony Bad
> We agree. I too have seen excellent quality from quiet neighborhood
> dentists, and the opposite from the Big Boys ........
>
> ...and the reverse too!
>
I have only seen two cases from the "big boys". Neither justified what the
person paid for such care. One was decent work, but not worth more than double
what the area average would have been. The other, as I described, bordered on
criminal, as the person paid for a rolls royce and got a skateboard with only
three wheels.
I am sure most of these "big names" do work that is good, but I feel that they
are usually more hype than anything else.
T
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Orthodmd wrote:
> I looked up the article in the NY Times and here it is, a little different than
> most of you would suspect.
(snip)
Ya know, I remember that article--but I didn't recall the mention of
Rosenthal's license suspension.
Thanks for finding the article.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
http://www.dentaltwins.com
David
front two teeth and his right lateral incisor, from an injury the
patient suffered as a child. Dr. Rosenthal didn't have anything to do
with the preperation of those three teeth, and the patient has had to
wear a bridge over those teeth for more than twenty years. The
patient's left lateral incisor (on your right as you view the picture)
and both his canines, however, were perfectly normal, healthy teeth
before Dr. Rosenthal ground all of them into tiny stumps, after
explicitly agreeing not to permanently damage those teeth, and
promising repeatedly not to do so, and that picture clearly displays
this. Removing that bridge would reveal teeth not prepared by Dr.
Rosenthal, and of course, would look a lot worse. I have a photograph
of the patient without the bridge there, and it looks perfectly
monstrous, of course. But putting it on the Web page would falsely
imply that those three teeth were damaged by Dr. Rosenthal, which they
weren't, so the bridge is pictured only out of fairness to Dr.
Rosenthal, and for absolutely no other reason. I would love to show
that picture on the site, but I have been careful not to say or even
suggest anything false on that site.
See it for yourself:
http://www.baddentist.com/RosenthalNoBridge.jpg
But remember, that Dr. Rosenthal did not prepare the front two teeth
or the patient's right lateral as they appear before the patient
visited Dr. Rosenthal.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<r9tuqvc75n3kjtc0j...@4ax.com>...
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
David wrote:
> The photograph includes a three-tooth bridge over the patient's top
> front two teeth and his right lateral incisor, from an injury the
> patient suffered as a child. Dr. Rosenthal didn't have anything to do
> with the preperation of those three teeth, and the patient has had to
> wear a bridge over those teeth for more than twenty years. The
> patient's left lateral incisor (on your right as you view the picture)
> and both his canines, however, were perfectly normal, healthy teeth
> before Dr. Rosenthal ground all of them into tiny stumps, after
> explicitly agreeing not to permanently damage those teeth, and
> promising repeatedly not to do so, and that picture clearly displays
> this. Removing that bridge would reveal teeth not prepared by Dr.
> Rosenthal, and of course, would look a lot worse. I have a photograph
> of the patient without the bridge there, and it looks perfectly
> monstrous, of course. But putting it on the Web page would falsely
> imply that those three teeth were damaged by Dr. Rosenthal, which they
> weren't, so the bridge is pictured only out of fairness to Dr.
> Rosenthal, and for absolutely no other reason. I would love to show
> that picture on the site, but I have been careful not to say or even
> suggest anything false on that site.
>
> See it for yourself:
>
> http://www.baddentist.com/RosenthalNoBridge.jpg
Unless I'm misreading the x-ray with the bridge in place, the tooth next to the left lateral incisor is a first
premolar, not a canine. I cannot evaluate the right canine at all.
I'm afraid that it is impossible to tell after the fact if a crown was necessary or advisable for the lateral
incisor and canine(s). We would really have to see pre-op photos and radiographs. Your charges MAY be supportable,
but as far as I can see, they are not supported by the photos posted here.
Steve
--
David
tooth next to the incisor is a canine. It looks like a premolar,
because it was mutilated by Dr. Rosenthal, but before he did so, it
was a normal, healthy canine. Before this damage, all three teeth
were perfectly normal, perfectly healthy teeth, which Dr. Rosenthal
ground into the tiny stubs you see pictured, after explicitly
promising not to do so.
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS <bornfe...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message news:<3FAFE956...@dentaltwins.com>...
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
David wrote:
> I think you are misreading the "x-ray" with the bridge in place. The
> tooth next to the incisor is a canine. It looks like a premolar,
> because it was mutilated by Dr. Rosenthal, but before he did so, it
> was a normal, healthy canine. Before this damage, all three teeth
> were perfectly normal, perfectly healthy teeth, which Dr. Rosenthal
> ground into the tiny stubs you see pictured, after explicitly
> promising not to do so.
Sorry about the misstatement. It would be important to view the x-ray, BTW.
Unfortunately, your assertion is still heresay unless we see photos and/or x-rays from before treatment was performed.
Steve
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
bridge. Possibly you had miscommunication with Dr. Rosenthal. Eitrher
way the stumps will rot as it is now so get it fixed.
However, that is in the past. If you have a few dollars better
consider a better bridge that stays on. I'd encorporate that upper
left lateral incisor prepared by Dr. R. into the bridge.
By the way the tooth next to that is a first bicuspid .... two cusps,
not one as with a cuspid also known as a canine. I bet the canine is
locked inside your upper jaw. Now get a regular dentist not a
superstar dentist. The regular guy will suit you better and not lose
patience as Dr. R. did.
No one, not even Dr. Rosenthal can turn a one cusped tooth into a two
cusped tooth.
Joel
**
David
what Dr. Rosenthal did, drilling into the canine so extensively that
it now appears to have an extra cusp, after explicitly agreeing not to
do any permanent damage to the tooth. Those were normal, healthy,
one-cusped canine teeth when the patient presented to Dr. Rosenthal,
but Dr. Rosenthal mutilated those teeth so extensively that the teeh
is no longer even recognizable as canines.
In any case, it is very nice that you want to come to the defense of
your brother dentist, but this is not a debate about whether the
statements on baddentist.com are true or not. They are, and in fact
they are undisputed by Dr. Rosenthal. Indeed, he has explicitly
admitted in writing that the work done for this patient was defective.
The Web site is designed merely to publicize these undisputed claims.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<9870rvctvva7jdrvo...@4ax.com>...
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
>In fact, turning a one-cusped tooth into a two-cusped tooth is exactly
>what Dr. Rosenthal did, drilling into the canine so extensively that
>it now appears to have an extra cusp, after explicitly agreeing not to
>do any permanent damage to the tooth. Those were normal, healthy,
>one-cusped canine teeth when the patient presented to Dr. Rosenthal,
>but Dr. Rosenthal mutilated those teeth so extensively that the teeh
>is no longer even recognizable as canines.
Thanks for the explanation. It explains what was a mystery to me.
>
>In any case, it is very nice that you want to come to the defense of
>your brother dentist,
REPLY: Nope, I do not even like the dude based upon his "advertising
status." But that is another matter not this one.
>but this is not a debate about whether the
>statements on baddentist.com are true or not. They are, and in fact
>they are undisputed by Dr. Rosenthal. Indeed, he has explicitly
>admitted in writing that the work done for this patient was defective.
OK. So he promised veneers but it appears that the upper left lateral
incisor (tooth #10) was prepared for a crown and the two canines were
treated for veneers (?)
So why was this done? I figure there may be some dental reason about
which you are unaware.
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Now what about the on again, off again bridge, which is the real
problem.
David
reasons, and that is the only explanation given by Dr. Rosenthal. Dr.
Rosenthal was told that the patient would not agree to the procedure
unless the teeth were not permanently altered, and he accepted that
condition, and promised that would be the case. There was no reason
to violate that condition, and certainly not without first consulting
the patient, who would enver have concented, had Dr. Rosenthal not
made that fraudulent promise.
The bridge does not slip off. The bridge made by Dr. Rosenthal's
office was defective, as Dr. Rosenthal admits. Accordingly, it had to
be replaced. After it was removed by another dentist, the picture
without the bridge was taken.
Again, what is undisputed is that Dr. Rosenthal promised not to
permanently damage the patient's teeth, and was explicitly told that
the patient would not consent to treatment if the teeth would be
permanently altered. He then badly mutilated the teeth, and has since
refused repeated requests to give any explanation for this, if there
is one. Then, he covered these teeth with veneers that he later
admited were defective. But he refused to replace the defective work
or refund the patient's money or even to examine the patient when the
patient complained of problems.
This is not the only patient who has reported being disgfigured by Dr.
Rosenthal in precisely this way after being explicitly promised that
his work would not permanently damage the patient's teeth. This is
just the only one willing to be documented on the Web site at this
time, dispite receiving improper threats from Dr. Rosenthal's
attorney. However, you will certainly be hearing more accounts of
equally or more reprehensible behavior by Dr. Rosenthal unless the
case is settled before trial.
Anyway, this patient has come forward now because he sincerely
believes that it is important to warn other people about this
dangerous man, and I have answered your questions because I believe
them generally to be sincerely aimed at discovering the truth, in the
spirit of scientific inquiry. But at this point, I think the
situation is clear, and this patient's first-hand testimony speaks for
itself. Accordingly, I shall reserve any further comment on this
matter, only in the interest of making certain not to unknowingly say
or do anything which might possibly compromise this patient's eventual
lawsuit against Dr. Rosenthal and the Rosenthal Group, or, for that
matter, the lawsuits of other people who aparently have been even more
badly injured by Dr. Rosenthal.
I thank you very much for your attention to this matter, and I
encourage you to continue to discuss the issues it raises among
yourselves.
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S. <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<thd1rvs8msfc47qrr...@4ax.com>...
Joel M. Eichen D.D.S.
The teeth were somewhat compromised before the "mistake" so focusing
on this does not help the patient.
Joel