do these guys actually make $120,000/year?
batmanwannabe
I live in the Queens borough in NYC. My residence on a particular
block has been over 15 years now. My neighborhood consists of dental
offices on the lobby of several apartments.
In fact, on my block alone, there are about six apartment buildings
and four of them has a dental office. Crossing the street and walking
in the direction of Main Street, you see another shingle of a dental
clinic. By the time you walk along the street for about 10 min, you
would have easily noticed at least a dozen dental offices.
Paradoxically eye-catching, I never ( never, really) saw anyone go
into those dental offices. Heck, even for myself, I try staying away
from dentists too and the last time I ever went to one was about 8
years, I think. On top of that, I remember being the only patient
there.
My experiences are capped with what I sometimes see on this newsgroup.
There are posters here asking to be referred to dentists who charge
low fees.
ADA claims that the average dentist makes around 120k/year, while
dental specialists can go beyond 200k/year. Now, for the dentists that
I was mentioning, do they actually make this sum?
Okay, so maybe I'm relatively too young and haven't been to many
places. However, I feel that my experience and feelings are realistic
and I wouldn't be surprised if the dental offices I know of are barely
surviving.
Does anyone here have the same feelings that I have?
Orthodmd
if there are dentists in those offices and they are working four days a week
seeing patients, then the numbers are about right
Charlie Ruff, DMD
Specialist in Orthodontics
Diplomate American Board of Orthodontics
Joel M. Eichen
>
> if there are dentists in those offices and they are working four days a week
> seeing patients, then the numbers are about right
>
>
> Charlie Ruff, DMD
> Specialist in Orthodontics
> Diplomate American Board of Orthodontics
REPLY:
Charlie, you forgot to mention our stipend. Every single dentist I
know gets a check from the American Dental Association totalling
around $100,000 a year. We get this in exchange for our efforts with
criticizing the amalgam poison articles ........ and the
anti-amalgamites .........
garden_state
> know gets a check from the American Dental Association totalling
> around $100,000 a year. We get this in exchange for our efforts with
> criticizing the amalgam poison articles ........ and the
> anti-amalgamites .........
It's time to stop the amalgam remarks. They are not helpful to anyone other
than yourself. This once was and could be again a wonderful newsgroup that
actually helps patients and dentists but you seem not to want that. You
seem to want smd. to be dominated by your nonsensical quarrels over amalgam.
It's sad.
I'm not much of believer but I think the following contains a great deal of
wisdom and I sincerely hope it helps.
"God won't ask what kind of car you drove,
God won't ask the square footage of your house,
God won't ask about the clothes you had in your closet,
God won't ask about your social status; .
God won't ask what you did to help yourself, but
He'll ask what you did to help others."
**********
"Friends are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble
remembering how to fly."
Anonymous
Best Regards, Marian
Hans Lennros
> Every single dentist I know gets a check from the American
> Dental Association totalling around $100,000 a year. We get
> this in exchange for our efforts with criticizing the amalgam
> poison articles ........ and the anti-amalgamites .........
Joel, you must already be a very wealthy man !
And as "Amalgate" goes on, you will get even more rich!
Until amalgate results in an impeachent of presidential size ...
Hans
=============================================
<joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:8a2c2731.0209...@posting.google.com...
Tony Bad
news:HrYk9.55824$1C2.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Charlie, you forgot to mention our stipend. Every single dentist I
> > know gets a check from the American Dental Association totalling
> > around $100,000 a year. We get this in exchange for our efforts with
> > criticizing the amalgam poison articles ........ and the
> > anti-amalgamites .........
>
> It's time to stop the amalgam remarks. They are not helpful to anyone
other
> than yourself. This once was and could be again a wonderful newsgroup
that
> actually helps patients and dentists but you seem not to want that. You
> seem to want smd. to be dominated by your nonsensical quarrels over
amalgam.
> It's sad.
> I'm not much of believer but I think the following contains a great deal
of
> wisdom and I sincerely hope it helps.
>
> "God won't ask what kind of car you drove,
> God won't ask the square footage of your house,
> God won't ask about the clothes you had in your closet,
> God won't ask about your social status; .
> God won't ask what you did to help yourself, but
> He'll ask what you did to help others."
I understand your sentiment, and wish the tone and volume of such debates
could get turned down a few, okay, quite a few notches, but letting poorly
informed zealots give advice unchecked or unchallenged does not fall into
what I would consider helping others.
Take a look at the posts over the past few days and you will see huge
amounts of one-sided links and articles being posted wholly unsolicited. If
these things go unchallenged, THEY become the advice people take away from
this group. While you may argue there may be some validity to other views,
they are not the views of the vast majority of dentists or of organized
dentistry and therefore no one should come away from here with that
impression.
Just my opinion.
T
Joel M. Eichen
>
> I understand your sentiment, and wish the tone and volume of such debates
> could get turned down a few, okay, quite a few notches, but letting poorly
> informed zealots give advice unchecked or unchallenged does not fall into
> what I would consider helping others.
>
> Take a look at the posts over the past few days and you will see huge
> amounts of one-sided links and articles being posted wholly unsolicited. If
> these things go unchallenged, THEY become the advice people take away from
> this group. While you may argue there may be some validity to other views,
> they are not the views of the vast majority of dentists or of organized
> dentistry and therefore no one should come away from here with that
> impression.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> T
REPLY:
Oh I agree ........ There is no need for us to add the amalgam sarcasm
... except as rebuttal to the "amalgam-is-poison" links! And please
note it is never a discussion .... merely a whole bunch of links to
nonsense.
These posts of ours are RESPONSE TO ... and certainly not presented as
original dental information. Amalgams have been in safe use since
1837. Not that many people have "nearly died" until they found a
g-o-o-o-o-d alt.dentist.
When someone (Jan) claims we dentists are in denial, we are liars, and
the ADA, CDC, and USPHS are all in cahoots, well it is time for much
sarcasm!
I have a suggestion. When you see my name, just do not read it! Bypass
it .. skip it!
It is quite simple you know! It is like some of our rotten TV programs
........ I just change the channel when I see them coming! I cannt
control what Michael Eisner does. By the way, this little rant does
help patients who want to get teeth restored without breaking the
bank.
Crowns do not have mercury of course, but are considerably more
expensive than composites or amalgams. Oh gosh ... sorry Jan.
Bridgework contains metal. Is that a death sentence too?
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
DiWitt
Yesterday I found this group for the first time and see lots of back and fro
about amalgam. I find this on several other newsgroups and usually pass
over it. And considering that this is a dentistry newsgroup I wasn't
surprised at all to find it her, in fact, I was warned about it when it was
suggested I look her for the answer to my question.
What did surprise me was that no one even mention the fact that the original
poster hadn't even been to a dentist in eight years! All these replies on
amalgam and no one bothers to point out the health hazards of skipping the
dentist?????
Oh well, sorry if I butted in ...... just couldn't help myself.
--
DianeW
"garden_state" <garden...@worldnet.att.net.INVALID> wrote in message
news:HrYk9.55824$1C2.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Rajeev Kumar S
than deviating from the point of contention. So why not u big wig dentists
reply to the points raised in by the first poster.
Rgds
"batmanwannabe" <preden...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:380ab8ec.02092...@posting.google.com...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.386 / Virus Database: 218 - Release Date: 09/09/2002
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Obviously, the neighborhoods have undergone radical ethnic changes in
the past 20 years. You probably find a mix of older practices that are
well-established, full-fee for service, perhaps semi-retired dentists.
You will also see some newer practices and some large clinic operations.
My point is that the situation in your area is in flux; the older,
secular Jews are moving or dying; some areas have become very Orthodox.
Other areas are south asian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and (moving toward
Corona), South American. Naturally, some dentists in these ethnic
enclaves have started practices catering largely to their own ethnic
groups. So the dental market is fragmented there in a way that might not
be so in an area not in this kind of ferment.
There are certainly thriving practices in Queens which far exceed the
averages.
I belong to the Queens County AGD, which is well-attended by many.
But the ranks of the American born is getting mighty slim.
Steve
batmanwannabe wrote:
--
Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS
Brooklyn, NY
718-258-5001
http://www.dentaltwins.com
Orthodmd
1. how did the Invisalign go guys?
2. are you sure about the dearth of American born. i find a lot of dental
school residents are first borns (their parents not their grandparents were
immigrants). Also, it seems that the Chinese in particular (maybe Hong Kong
chinese is more apt) tend to have a whole generation born in the US although
raised in HK. I believe this was done in anticipation of the Brits losing HK
to the mainland. a wealthy HK family would send a pregnant woman to the US 20
years ago and there would be no question of citizenship for that child now.
This came up recently where I teach. Lovely Chinese ortho resident was asked
where she grew up. She replied HK and I asked her if she was going back there.
She giggled and told me she was born in St. Louis as if that explained it all.
And it goes without saying although I can't resist saying it that most of our
grandparents were born elsewhere. In my case, I think I can make a good
argument that my dad's dad fled Germany as a draft dodger just before WWI.
Best wishes
batmanwannabe
> I presume you're in Flushing, or nearby (I'm in Brooklyn).
> Obviously, the neighborhoods have undergone radical ethnic changes in
> the past 20 years. You probably find a mix of older practices that are
> well-established, full-fee for service, perhaps semi-retired dentists.
> You will also see some newer practices and some large clinic operations.
> My point is that the situation in your area is in flux; the older,
> secular Jews are moving or dying; some areas have become very Orthodox.
> Other areas are south asian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and (moving toward
> Corona), South American. Naturally, some dentists in these ethnic
> enclaves have started practices catering largely to their own ethnic
> groups.
So these dentists aren't fluent in English and obtained their dental
education in a foreign country, and they're allowed to practice here?
That's so unfair. Besides, I thought ADA doesn't issue dental licenses
to foreign dentists.
Well, I guess my rare dental checkups could be justified after all :-)
Joel M. Eichen
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS <born...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message news:<3D95E6A...@dentaltwins.com>...
> > I presume you're in Flushing, or nearby (I'm in Brooklyn).
> > Obviously, the neighborhoods have undergone radical ethnic changes in
> > the past 20 years. You probably find a mix of older practices that are
> > well-established, full-fee for service, perhaps semi-retired dentists.
> > You will also see some newer practices and some large clinic operations.
> > My point is that the situation in your area is in flux; the older,
> > secular Jews are moving or dying; some areas have become very Orthodox.
> > Other areas are south asian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and (moving toward
> > Corona), South American. Naturally, some dentists in these ethnic
> > enclaves have started practices catering largely to their own ethnic
> > groups.
>
>
> So these dentists aren't fluent in English and obtained their dental
> education in a foreign country, and they're allowed to practice here?
> That's so unfair. Besides, I thought ADA doesn't issue dental licenses
> to foreign dentists.
>
> Well, I guess my rare dental checkups could be justified after all :-)
>
>
REPLY:
The foreign dentists are required to repeat two years of dental school
in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania plus pass a nearly impossible Part
I that they are by-and-large untrained for ......
The University of Pennsylvania charges $39,638 for tuition plus fees
and instrument charges (not room and board) bringing the total to
$49,963 per year. Now you know why dentistry is expensive!
This is the state of things in the Big Scrapple. Whazzhappening in the
Big Apple? I mean what goes on in New York?
Joel M. Eichen, D.D.S.
Rajeev Kumar S
do earn 120,000 dollars per annum or not. To put it plain and simple ?????
"batmanwannabe" <preden...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:380ab8ec.02092...@posting.google.com...
Billy Verdin
>Big Apple? I mean what goes on in New York?
the same. we had a handful of foreign trained dentists join our class midway
through second year. they had to finish the preclinical courses + the clinical
2 yrs, plus take part 1 and 2 of the national dental boards.
Billy Verdin
>do earn 120,000 dollars per annum or not. To put it plain and simple ?????
generally, it is grossly inappropriate to discuss salaries, and . suffice it to
say that the ADA averages of general dentists and specialists is accurate.
Understand that these figures are *averages* and the standard deviation is
large. But for every struggling dentist in queens (assuming they are, in fact,
struggling) i can show you a dentist who is practicing in midtown manhattan and
making considerably above the ADA quoted average
JGenecov
states. There are board exams in which different groups of states can affiliate
to give one big exam (not all do), but you still have to pass certain parts for
the state(s) where you want to practice.
Jeff Genecov, DDS, MSD
Steven Bornfeld
batmanwannabe wrote:
> Mark & Steven Bornfeld DDS <born...@dentaltwins.com> wrote in message news:<3D95E6A...@dentaltwins.com>...
> > I presume you're in Flushing, or nearby (I'm in Brooklyn).
> > Obviously, the neighborhoods have undergone radical ethnic changes in
> > the past 20 years. You probably find a mix of older practices that are
> > well-established, full-fee for service, perhaps semi-retired dentists.
> > You will also see some newer practices and some large clinic operations.
> > My point is that the situation in your area is in flux; the older,
> > secular Jews are moving or dying; some areas have become very Orthodox.
> > Other areas are south asian, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and (moving toward
> > Corona), South American. Naturally, some dentists in these ethnic
> > enclaves have started practices catering largely to their own ethnic
> > groups.
>
> So these dentists aren't fluent in English and obtained their dental
> education in a foreign country, and they're allowed to practice here?
> That's so unfair. Besides, I thought ADA doesn't issue dental licenses
> to foreign dentists.
As far as I can tell, most are fluent. I doubt the national boards are given in other languages (but I could be
wrong). In any case, plenty of locals are not fluent in English, and having foreign-speaking dentists is not only
more comfortable for the patients, but probably can make for better dentistry too.
In NY State, some training is required (NYUCD has had a foreign dentist training program for many years).
Unless things have changed, when they complete this course they sit for what is called the "bench test" in lieu of
the NYS Boards or the NERBs.
Steve
Joel M. Eichen
REPLY:
Jan Drew will be surprised. She said the state gives you a licence to
practice dentistry, but the ADA gives the dentist the licence to kill
and maim.