No, please teach us! <g>
You're a closet dental researcher.
: No, please teach us! <g>
: You're a closet dental researcher.
Yes, I am not trained. I have come up against a few things, and pass some on.
I am probably more at risk from tooth clenching than from extra caries
now.
Besides food around the gums, causing gingivits and moving on to
periodotal disease may be a great cause of tooth loss than caries these days?
What sort of toothpick is good for removing sticky starch from gum edge
around back teeth?
QUIZ - Which of the following tooth skin layers will be missing and
which different 8 hours after abrasive brushing?
Adapted from D.B.Ritchie "Balance of Health [1] Teeth"
MATURE PLAQUE (some weeks after stopping abrasive brushing)
E Layer: Self-determining external mucous coat of the dental plaque
D2 layer: the mature bacterial zone, now a well-mixed, and ordered
population, remote from the enamel surface
C layer: the built up mineral layer of the plaque membrane, with high
fluoride, phosphate, etc.
B layer: the initial plaque membrane
A layer: the tooth enamel
Answer 10 lines down
Answer: 8-hour plaque has only
D1 layer: the bacterial zone dominantly strep. mutans, with easy access
to the fissure defects of the enamel surface
B layer: the initial plaque membrane
A layer: tooth enamel (if lucky)
What I am not sure about is what happens if food removes mature plaque
from a biting surface? I don't even know whether it does.
Brian R.Sandle. I hope the tooth cares didn't bring the caries and
fairies.
Too much. <g>
You wrote:
>Teeth, like any other component structures of all forms of life, have a
>skin, a very special sin. It may be, and often is, called the ENAMEL
>INTEGUMENT. More often, it is called the DENTAL PLAQUE.
What the heck is "INTEGUMENT" ? Had to look it up:
Latin integumentum, from integere to cover: something that covers or
encloses; especially : an enveloping layer (as a skin, membrane,
or husk) of an organism or one of its parts
>-"magnesium is the most important di-valent cation of all tissues" -
Magnesium in salivary buffer system is no novelty.
>For adult dental hygiene, I have long recommended a mixture of phosphate
>powders (Dentamin), quickly soluble and reactive with saliva, which
>produce an excellent mineralising effect within the dental plaque
Again, no novelty. All comes down to chemical buffers and precipiation.
> The bicarbonate of the saliva raises the tooth-surface pH to a point
> where the pre-enamel is converted to true enamel, or hydroxy-apatite.
It is all a question of solubility, the Ka value.
>Also in the presence of the high plaque fluoride (possibly as magnesium
>fluoride) the hydroxy-apatite is converted to fluor-apatite, the most
>stable form of enamel known to man.
Now we know it is calcium fluoride.
> The pre-enamel gel paste is best used at night time, as resting
> saliva (when a child is asleep) becomes highly alkaline, and will
> help the more thorough conversion to fluorapatite.
No, it is not. Pre-enamel gel paste sounds like an ad. Most effective it
is when there is plaque. Remember; a clean tooth cannot remineralize!
(bet you not many dentists know that!)
>After breakfast, a quick brush with the baking-soda-salt solution
>would ensure a safe plaque environment throughout the day..
What the heck is a safe plaque environment?
>Home dental care in these terms is the practical enhancement of
>natural protective oral conditions, and produces clean shining teeth
>with a sweet mouth odour.
Many words - no meaning.
>What about fluoride? > tooth-surface fluoride varies little whether
>a person has been born and bred in a region of high fluoride (1-2 ppm)
>or in a region of low fluoride (0.1 - 0.2 ppm) in the water supplies.
Enamel is formed during a period when fluoride has little, or no, effect.
Fluoride in water supplies has been demonstrated to reduce caries
incidence, as well as prevalenc, with 50%. Today no-one can give
an definite answer as why this occurs. It is under debate.
> Surely this is a most revealing research study of the value(?) of high
>fluoride in water supplies!"
Fluoride, like penicillin, has no effect in someone who doesn't need it!
>Triclosan is an antibacterial agent in them, and I wonder how that
>affects the "larger proteolytic organisms". They also now make a
>toothpaste with baking soda, but no calcium, and some other abrasive
>ingredient, titanium dioxide, which I wasn't too sure about for myself.
What is 'larger proteolytic organisms' ?
Maybe researchers who destroy the original issue they are to examine
(amalgam, fluoride etc) by not knowing the first thing about what they
really should be looking for ?
Bye for now,
Hans
>You wrote:
>>Teeth, like any other component structures of all forms of life, have a
>>skin, a very special sin.
Is this turning into alt.sci.religion?
Cheers,
Joel
-----
Better repent before Y2K.
"This is my apprentice, Tooth Maul...." (from Amalgam Wars, Part I, The
Proteolytic Menace)
: You wrote:
:>Teeth, like any other component structures of all forms of life, have a
:>skin, a very special sin. It may be, and often is, called the ENAMEL
:>INTEGUMENT. More often, it is called the DENTAL PLAQUE.
: What the heck is "INTEGUMENT" ? Had to look it up:
: Latin integumentum, from integere to cover: something that covers or
: encloses; especially : an enveloping layer (as a skin, membrane,
: or husk) of an organism or one of its parts
Haven't seen Soaring Bear for a while:
************************
Soaring Bear (be...@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu) wrote:
: In article <3hlm1l$b...@southern.co.nz>,
: Brian Sandle <Brian_...@equinox.gen.nz> wrote:
: >Soaring Bear (be...@helium.gas.uug.arizona.edu) wrote:
: >: In article <3h7rng$m...@southern.co.nz>,
: >: >I have been referring to the work of D.B.Ritchie who says that the
invisible
: >: >layer of mature plaque is beneficial - it has a microbiology which
: >: >concentrates fluoride from saliva many times on the tooth surface.
: >
: >: the 'invisible layer' which microbiologists label as
: >: pellicle, is rather different from the visible plaque. The
: >: plaque is composed of microorganisms but is not microscopically thin.
: >
: >I would be interested in any refs on this.
:
: Not in hand at moment. Ought to be able to find something
: at any medical library. Perhaps you have medline CD's or
: online search?
:
: >Is the pellicle removed by toothpaste abrasion, as well as the plaque?
:
: Yes.
:
: > I have quoted Ritchie saying the
: >plaque is also called the 'enamel integument'. Who else besides Ritchie
: >talks of tooth skin importance in resisting decay?
:
: Integument is just a $5 word meaning covering. You
: could put toothpaste on and call that an integument also.
Yes, but my Concise Oxford says "integument" is usually a natural
covering.
*********************
:>-"magnesium is the most important di-valent cation of all tissues" -
: Magnesium in salivary buffer system is no novelty.
:>For adult dental hygiene, I have long recommended a mixture of phosphate
:>powders (Dentamin), quickly soluble and reactive with saliva, which
:>produce an excellent mineralising effect within the dental plaque
: Again, no novelty. All comes down to chemical buffers and precipiation.
And apparently bacterial action.
:> The bicarbonate of the saliva raises the tooth-surface pH to a point
:> where the pre-enamel is converted to true enamel, or hydroxy-apatite.
: It is all a question of solubility, the Ka value.
That comes into it. The pre enamel is a bit more soluble in the acid gel
formulation so it can be got onto, perhaps into the plaque.
Just applying the hydroxy-apatite would not work.
Going back to what you have not quoted:
******************
Dicalcium phosphate dihydrate is such a pre-enamel compound, and it has
been formulated into a pleasantly acid gel. It can be safely brushed
upon the young teeth, using a very tiny amount, and gives a highly
successful build up of plaque mineral which appears to stabilize even
visible defects in the enamel surface. It is followed, of course, by a
copious flow of saliva which washes the teeth, and should be swallowed.
It contains traces of dicalcium\dimagnesium phosphate dihydrate, a very
important mineral nutrient, particularly for a growing child. The
bicarbonate of the saliva raises the tooth-surface pH to a point where
the pre-enamel is converted to true enamel, or hydroxy-apatite.
*****************
:>Also in the presence of the high plaque fluoride (possibly as magnesium
:>fluoride) the hydroxy-apatite is converted to fluor-apatite, the most
:>stable form of enamel known to man.
: Now we know it is calcium fluoride.
No. Enamel is not calcium fluoride. Or if you meant calcium fluoride
rather than magnesium fluoride above you would be wrong, too. Calcium
salts are rather insoluble.
:> The pre-enamel gel paste is best used at night time, as resting
:> saliva (when a child is asleep) becomes highly alkaline, and will
:> help the more thorough conversion to fluorapatite.
: No, it is not. Pre-enamel gel paste sounds like an ad.
from above:
Dicalcium phosphate dihydrate is such a pre-enamel compound, and it has
been formulated into a pleasantly acid gel.
Dicalcium phosphate dihydrate is listed on the Colgate "with calcium"
toothpaste. That is a bit of an ad, isn't it. Though see below about gels &c.
Most effective it
: is when there is plaque. Remember; a clean tooth cannot remineralize!
: (bet you not many dentists know that!)
Now you are being facetious?
See a bit more of what happens in the abstract below.
:>After breakfast, a quick brush with the baking-soda-salt solution
:>would ensure a safe plaque environment throughout the day..
: What the heck is a safe plaque environment?
One in which step mutans is not too close to the enamel, for example.
:>Home dental care in these terms is the practical enhancement of
:>natural protective oral conditions, and produces clean shining teeth
:>with a sweet mouth odour.
: Many words - no meaning.
For the layers of pellicle tabulation see the "Pellicle layer quiz" thread.
:>What about fluoride? > tooth-surface fluoride varies little whether
:>a person has been born and bred in a region of high fluoride (1-2 ppm)
:>or in a region of low fluoride (0.1 - 0.2 ppm) in the water supplies.
: Enamel is formed during a period when fluoride has little, or no, effect.
I presume that it will be taken from the mother, as with other elements.
So look out for the effect on the mother rather than on the foetus.
That is the initial part.
The next is that enamel can form, but what sort of enamel?
: Fluoride in water supplies has been demonstrated to reduce caries
: incidence, as well as prevalenc, with 50%. Today no-one can give
: an definite answer as why this occurs. It is under debate.
I think Ritchie's point is that with the naturally occuring layers of the
plaque the fluoride can be concentrated on the tooth enamel.
Fluoride itself is not put into water supplies. It would precipitate with
calcium to form insoluble calcium fluoride. I think sodium silicofluoride
may be used. I am not sure how that compares with the sodium
monofluorophosphate in most toothpaste these days. I see Sensodyne has
changed to that from sodium fluoride. Sodium fluoride can have an adverse
affect on the metabolism of glucose.
:> Surely this is a most revealing research study of the value(?) of high
:>fluoride in water supplies!"
: Fluoride, like penicillin, has no effect in someone who doesn't need it!
The question is why they don't need it. Or in the case of the fluorine
compound whether they can concentrate it where it is needed. Rather than
penicillin the example of vitamin B12 would be better. Persons who cannot
make the intrinsic factor to absorb it through the bowel wall may need
injections of it.
To worry Zugumba with another concept here, I think that vitamin B12 may
be made in the small amount of decaying food left in the mouth if some
cobalt is available. So I am not sure about the total safety of removing
every last particle of food from the mouth. Alternatively it may be made
in the lower bowel but not everyone can absorb it there. Then of course
it is in animal products. Spirulina has some substance which looks like
it but is not and may confuse the body, I think.
:>Triclosan is an antibacterial agent in them, and I wonder how that
:>affects the "larger proteolytic organisms". They also now make a
:>toothpaste with baking soda, but no calcium, and some other abrasive
:>ingredient, titanium dioxide, which I wasn't too sure about for myself.
: What is 'larger proteolytic organisms' ?
At a guess lye is caustic soda, a protein breaking down agent. So
proteolytic organism is a protein-breaking-down organism.
Remember:
survival in this solution of larger proteolytic organisms
which are helpful in "policing the plaque"
Does triclosan kill them?
*********************
The following citation and abstract is taken from Biological Abstracts
on CD-ROM, produced by BIOSIS, the world's largest abstracting and
indexing company in the life sciences. BIOSIS produces over 500,000
citations per year from journals, meetings, books, and patents. Although
BIOSIS makes a diligent effort to provide a complete and accurate
representation of bioscientific and other literature, BIOSIS does not
guarantee the accuracy, adequacy, or completeness of any information.
For more information, contact BIOSIS at 2100 Arch Street, Philadelphia,
PA 19013, USA; telephone 1-800-523-4806 (U.S. and Canada), (215)587-4847
(Worldwide); World Wide Web URL:http://www.biosis.org; Internet e-mail:
in...@mail.biosis.org
Title
Biochemistry and physiology of a remarkable family of human
antimicrobial salivary proteins.
Author, Editor, Inventor
Kalpidis-C; Oppenheim-F-G
Source
Odontostomatologike-Proodos.July-Aug., 1997; 51 (4) 216-227..
Publication Year
1997
Language
Greek; Non-English
Abstract
A neutral phosphoprotein and several distinct small (3-5 kD)
basic proteins with high histidine content constitute the
exciting polymorphic family of histatins in salivary
secretions. Histatins comprise a protective defense system that
exerts multifunctional biological activities in the oral
environment including formation of the acquired enamel
pellicle, involvement in mineral solution dynamics, and
microbicidal properties against several microorganisms.
Isolation and purification procedures are largely dependent on
the characteristic electrophoretic and chromatographic behavior
of these molecules with completely characterized familial
structural relations. Histatins which are encoded by only two
genes localized on human chromosome 4q13 derive from highly
specific post-translational modifications. Histatin 2 is
generated by enzymatic fragmentation of histatin 1 and the rest
of the histatins are proteolytic products of histatin 3
resulting in high degree of amino acid sequence homology
between the members of the family. Specifically restricted to
salivary glandular tissues, histatins have evolved recently
since they are only expressed in saliva of animals
phylogenetically higher than Cercopithecoidea. Histatins are
major salivary components and distinguished serous secretory
cell products. Glandular tissue is capable of responding to
mechanical and chemical stimulation by vast production and
release of histatins into the oral cavity. After secretion in
the mouth, the bioavailability of histatins is determined by
complexing with other salivary macromolecules and proteolytic
fragmentation by host and bacterial proteases.
Accession Number
199800030183
Update Code
19971201 .
: Maybe researchers who destroy the original issue they are to examine
: (amalgam, fluoride etc) by not knowing the first thing about what they
: really should be looking for ?
I worry that you are trying to confuse people into accepting more costly
dentists' filling and implanting craft.
: Bye for now,
: Hans
Brian Sandle
What???
: :>After breakfast, a quick brush with the baking-soda-salt solution
: :>would ensure a safe plaque environment throughout the day..
: : What the heck is a safe plaque environment?
: One in which step mutans is not too close to the enamel, for example.
: :>Home dental care in these terms is the practical enhancement of
: :>natural protective oral conditions, and produces clean shining teeth
: :>with a sweet mouth odour.
: : Many words - no meaning.
: For the layers of pellicle tabulation see the "Pellicle layer quiz" thread.
How often do you get a patient who does not use bacteriocidal toohpaste
have sweet smelling breath?
There is a very important meaning there - that there must be a warning if
the breath smells at all foul.
I have just had a little brainstorm.
If there is food around the gums does that trigger an
eat-to-move-food-from-gums-so-it-will-not-decay-on-them-and-loosen-teeth?
I could have put this into several articles for Zugumba who likes dealing
with one bit of info per button push, but Joel has been warning of the
charges. Actually the size of the content of this article must be not
much more than equal to the header of it.