Kudos to Jan Drew
Lance Mannion
I have watched with amusement the idiocy of the dentists here on
this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and ignore her postings.
The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing when viewing it from
the outside as an unbiased observer.
It is particularly amusing how powerful bias can be, when a group
cannot recognize that something that is hazardous waste by the
EPA's definition, is ok in the mouth. This should at least open
one's mind to the *possibility* that amalgams are hazardous in
*some* (not all) people. But noooooooo, the supposedly educated
dental professionals here are all-knowing.
I am a well educated, reasonable person, with a background in
statistics. I had my amalgams out, and yes, it did cure several
lifelong, chronic health conditions. It was *not* easy, and in
fact, is probably a risky procedure, since you do expose yourself
to lots of Hg upon removal. The detox has taken a long time, and
has been extremely unpleasant.
Re: Rich's postings - it is possible that some of Jan's improvement
was due to placebo. Heck, I felt better immediately after my amalgam
removal. That quickly changed as the Hg flooded into my body. Even
if Jan had some improvement due to placebo, that doesn't preclude
her from having Hg poisoning.
Re: Joel - this guy is an idiot. His posts do nothing for the credibility
of the "pro amalgam" side. I don't think he could handle a real debate.
All he does is post stupid articles and one-liners - what a dolt !
So Jan, keep up the good work, fight the good fight. Time will prove
us correct. Don't give up. It's tough, and usually lonely, being on the
cutting edge, and going against the conventional wisdom.
Lance
Joel M. Eichen
Lance Mannion <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in
message
news:7F8A9.27789$y45.97...@news.primus.ca...
> Long time lurker, first time poster.
>
> I have watched with amusement the idiocy of the
dentists here on
> this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and
ignore her postings.
> The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing when
viewing it from
> the outside as an unbiased observer.
Yup, after all the American Dental Association,
the dental schools, the US Public Health Service
... all in denial. We ignore "the word," and the
word is good, indeed.
>
> It is particularly amusing how powerful bias can
be, when a group
> cannot recognize that something that is
hazardous waste by the
> EPA's definition, is ok in the mouth. This
should at least open
> one's mind to the *possibility* that amalgams
are hazardous in
> *some* (not all) people. But noooooooo, the
supposedly educated
> dental professionals here are all-knowing.
>
> I am a well educated, reasonable person, with a
background in
> statistics. I had my amalgams out, and yes, it
did cure several
> lifelong, chronic health conditions.
Cool.
> It was *not* easy, and in
> fact, is probably a risky procedure, since you
do expose yourself
> to lots of Hg upon removal. The detox has taken
a long time, and
> has been extremely unpleasant.
>
> Re: Rich's postings - it is possible that some
of Jan's improvement
> was due to placebo. Heck, I felt better
immediately after my amalgam
> removal. That quickly changed as the Hg flooded
into my body. Even
> if Jan had some improvement due to placebo, that
doesn't preclude
> her from having Hg poisoning.
>
> Re: Joel - this guy is an idiot. His posts do
nothing for the credibility
> of the "pro amalgam" side. I don't think he
could handle a real debate.
> All he does is post stupid articles and
one-liners - what a dolt !
Yup. Now go away.
>
> So Jan, keep up the good work, fight the good
fight. Time will prove
> us correct. Don't give up. It's tough, and
usually lonely, being on the
> cutting edge, and going against the conventional
wisdom.
>
> Lance
>
>
Lance spelled backwards is "Jan."
Joel M. Eichen
hiking in the nude ... either pro or con.
Joel M. Eichen
>
> I have watched with amusement the idiocy of the
dentists here on
> this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and
ignore her postings.
> The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing when
viewing it from
> the outside as an unbiased observer.
>
Lance
Stay indoors. Forest fires released 6,000 tons of
mercury one weekend this past summer. Amalgams
release 17 micrograms ....... Statistician, eh???
Joel M. Eichen
>
> I have watched with amusement the idiocy of the
dentists here on
> this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and
ignore her postings.
> The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing when
viewing it from
> the outside as an unbiased observer.
>
@@@@@@@@@@@
No I do not ignore Jan ....... Wanna see?
Mercy ....... indeed ......... God with punish you
for not listening ..........
Everybody is lyin'................
Oh that shows your character ..........
That Rich is out hiking in the nude again
.........
Hey Lance,
That is the scientific approach isn't it?
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Joel M. Eichen
Another bushwhacker .......
Lance Mannion
"Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aqr5a3$chmjr$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> Stay indoors. Forest fires released 6,000 tons of
> mercury one weekend this past summer. Amalgams
> release 17 micrograms ....... Statistician, eh???
Yup. I sure am. Please cite a source that shows:
1. That forest fires released 6,000 tons of Hg
2. How that Hg makes it into people's body
and makes their exposure even remotely
approach that of amalgams.
Thank You
Lance Mannion
> > The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing when
> viewing it from
> > the outside as an unbiased observer.
>
>
> Yup, after all the American Dental Association,
You have sucker written all over your forehead.
The ADA is a trade guild with lots of lawyers.
They are going to do whatever they can to avoid
legal liability for amalgams.
That you actually pay credence to anything they say
again shows the power of groupthink to make people
stupid.
Trusting the ADA on this issue is like trusting all those
Wall St brokers telling you to "buy" two years ago, when
right down the hall, they were underwriting the same
company's stock. It's called a conflict of interest. The ADA
has one, they are in business to protect the interests of
their trade guild.
Tony Bad
you, but that doesn't make it real.
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:7F8A9.27789$y45.97...@news.primus.ca...
> Long time lurker, first time poster.
>
> I have watched with amusement the idiocy of the dentists here on
> this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and ignore her postings.
> The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing when viewing it from
> the outside as an unbiased observer.
>
> It is particularly amusing how powerful bias can be, when a group
> cannot recognize that something that is hazardous waste by the
> EPA's definition, is ok in the mouth.
This is a frequent rallying cry, but I don't see what relevance it has. Your own
body produces chemicals that if placed in a jar would also be considered
hazardous waste...so what does this mean? Please share with me what this means
to you? Most food ingredients, cosmetics, household products, and parts of the
human body if collected in concentrated amounts are regulated waste.
> This should at least open
> one's mind to the *possibility* that amalgams are hazardous in
> *some* (not all) people. But noooooooo, the supposedly educated
> dental professionals here are all-knowing.
>
> I am a well educated, reasonable person, with a background in
> statistics. I had my amalgams out, and yes, it did cure several
> lifelong, chronic health conditions. It was *not* easy, and in
> fact, is probably a risky procedure, since you do expose yourself
> to lots of Hg upon removal. The detox has taken a long time, and
> has been extremely unpleasant.
>
> Re: Rich's postings - it is possible that some of Jan's improvement
> was due to placebo. Heck, I felt better immediately after my amalgam
> removal. That quickly changed as the Hg flooded into my body. Even
> if Jan had some improvement due to placebo, that doesn't preclude
> her from having Hg poisoning.
>
> Re: Joel - this guy is an idiot. His posts do nothing for the credibility
> of the "pro amalgam" side. I don't think he could handle a real debate.
> All he does is post stupid articles and one-liners - what a dolt !
>
> So Jan, keep up the good work, fight the good fight. Time will prove
> us correct. Don't give up. It's tough, and usually lonely, being on the
> cutting edge, and going against the conventional wisdom.
>
> Lance
Then again, conventional wisdom is often conventional because it is correct.
T
Mark Probert
Here's some reading for you:
http://mining.ubc.ca/faculty/meech/fire4nat.htm
http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Forest-Fire.htm
http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Smoke-Biomass.htm
http://www.ucar.edu/communications/staffnotes/0107/mercury.html
http://www.des.state.nh.us/nhppp/origin20.pdf
http://activetravel.about.com/library/bl_fireresources.htm
http://www.etox.ucsc.edu/courses/etox%20144/alexa.html
If you need more info, try a Google search...takes only nanoseconds...
Joel M. Eichen
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> news:aqr53t$cgijl$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > > The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing
when
> > viewing it from
> > > the outside as an unbiased observer.
> >
> >
> > Yup, after all the American Dental
Association,
>
> You have sucker written all over your forehead.
> The ADA is a trade guild with lots of lawyers.
> They are going to do whatever they can to avoid
> legal liability for amalgams.
REPLY:
Any proof of that or is that just your opinion of
how the establishment works?
Joel M. Eichen
Sure .. wait a sec ... I posted that many times
...... will repost with references ......
Hg falls from the sky and into drinking water ....
just like waste water from the dental office ..
eventually into the food chain .......
It is the dosage that makes a toxin .......
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Joel M. Eichen
much so!
***
"At the very least, the experiments could change
the way scientists think about mercury pollution.
Friedli has estimated that as much as 800 tons of
mercury may enter the atmosphere annually from
burning vegetation worldwide--ranging from
wildfires to farmers clearing underbrush"
****
Mark Probert
<mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
news:aqr7ks$ch6g2$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
Joel M. Eichen
Tony Bad <SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam> wrote in
message
news:0Z8A9.21179$wF2....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.
..
> You sound like you have bought into Jan's brand
of science. Glad it worked for
> you, but that doesn't make it real.
@@@@@@
17 micrograms .... POISON ........
6,000 tons ..... uh ... no problem!
@@@@@@
Mark Probert
But, it was a very interesting read, as my younger son is dealing with some
of these issues in his earth science class, and may have to do a paper. I'll
suggest it for him...
"Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aqr850$cb3up$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
Joel M. Eichen
> Nah...it only took a few nanoseconds...some
people are just so lazy...
>
> But, it was a very interesting read, as my
younger son is dealing with some
> of these issues in his earth science class, and
may have to do a paper. I'll
> suggest it for him...
>
REPLY:
Good plan .... Kids are often so better informed
that the "internet experts ...."
Joel M. Eichen
> Nah...it only took a few nanoseconds...some
people are just so lazy...
>
And the naysayers
are so busy bashing
the dentists that they
do not have the time
to clean the wax out
of their ears .........
Lance Mannion
news:0Z8A9.21179$wF2....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
for
> you, but that doesn't make it real.
Jan's brand of science is just fine with me. Other countries are using
it to formulate social policy. I felt comfortable using it to decide to
get my amalgams out.
Just because it's not a $50 million clinical trial, sponsored by Pfizer,
and subject to FDA scrutiny, doesn't make it bad science.
> > It is particularly amusing how powerful bias can be, when a group
> > cannot recognize that something that is hazardous waste by the
> > EPA's definition, is ok in the mouth.
>
> This is a frequent rallying cry, but I don't see what relevance it has.
Your own
> body produces chemicals that if placed in a jar would also be considered
> hazardous waste...so what does this mean? Please share with me what this
means
> to you? Most food ingredients, cosmetics, household products, and parts of
the
> human body if collected in concentrated amounts are regulated waste.
But with amalgam, we're talking about *non* concentrated. i.e. one amalgam
piece from one molar from one person is hazardous waste. Please name
*anything* that goes into (or is in) our body that is hazardous waste
outside
our body in the ***same*** quantity, other than amalgam. (Biomatter does
not count, because biomatter has specific benefit in the "host")
> Then again, conventional wisdom is often conventional because it is
correct.
Sometimes true, but I don't believe in this case.
Lance Mannion
> REPLY:
> Any proof of that or is that just your opinion of
> how the establishment works?
Oh come on! Have you ever worked in a company ?
Ever been in a lawsuit ? Did you see "60 Minutes" on
Sunday ? (the Monsanto story).
Corporations/trade guilds and their lawyers have a fiduciary
obligation to the their shareholders/constituents. Lawyers have
an obligation to "zealously defend their clients". ADA lawyers
are doing what they have been hired to do.
Lance
Lance Mannion
> It is the dosage that makes a toxin .......
Exactly, which is why I doubt that forest fires
cause anywhere near the Hg exposure that
amalgams do. I may be wrong. I've never studied
forest fires effects on Hg levels....
Joel M. Eichen
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> news:aqr7uu$cj0vt$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > REPLY:
> > Any proof of that or is that just your opinion
of
> > how the establishment works?
>
> Oh come on! Have you ever worked in a company ?
> Ever been in a lawsuit ? Did you see "60
Minutes" on
> Sunday ? (the Monsanto story).
REPLY:
Translation
LANCE: "I worked in a company
and I saw 60 Minutes, therefore
that is proof enough that amalgam
is poisonous."
>
> Corporations/trade guilds and their lawyers have
a fiduciary
> obligation to the their
shareholders/constituents. Lawyers have
> an obligation to "zealously defend their
clients". ADA lawyers
> are doing what they have been hired to do.
>
> Lance
>
Translation:
There are lawyers meaning that all dentists are
lying .........
>
Joel M. Eichen
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> news:aqr81t$cl2qp$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
Joel writes:
> > It is the dosage that makes a toxin .......
>
Lance replies ...
> Exactly, which is why I doubt that forest fires
> cause anywhere near the Hg exposure that
> amalgams do. I may be wrong. I've never studied
> forest fires effects on Hg levels....
REPLY:
So go study instead
of calling me an idiot ......
PS- I have an interest in this!
Joel
>
>
Joel M. Eichen
> "Tony Bad" <SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam> wrote
in message
>
news:0Z8A9.21179$wF2....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.
..
> > You sound like you have bought into Jan's
brand of science. Glad it worked
> for
> > you, but that doesn't make it real.
>
> Jan's brand of science is just fine with me.
Other countries are using
> it to formulate social policy. I felt
comfortable using it to decide to
> get my amalgams out.
REPLY:
Cool. I regularly buy garlic to keep the vampires
away ......
and you know what? So far, it seems to be working
.......
Nana Weedkiller
> Long time lurker, first time poster.
>
> I have watched with amusement the idiocy of the dentists here on
> this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and ignore her postings.
> The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing when viewing it from
> the outside as an unbiased observer.
>
> It is particularly amusing how powerful bias can be, when a group
> cannot recognize that something that is hazardous waste by the
> EPA's definition, is ok in the mouth.
Your blood is a hazardous waste. Your feces and urine is a hazardous waste.
Why are these things ok in the body?
>This should at least open
> one's mind to the *possibility* that amalgams are hazardous in
> *some* (not all) people. But noooooooo, the supposedly educated
> dental professionals here are all-knowing.
>
> I am a well educated, reasonable person, with a background in
> statistics. I had my amalgams out, and yes, it did cure several
> lifelong, chronic health conditions. It was *not* easy, and in
> fact, is probably a risky procedure, since you do expose yourself
> to lots of Hg upon removal. The detox has taken a long time, and
> has been extremely unpleasant.
Unpleasant for you but profitable for those promoting the detox program.
>
> Re: Rich's postings - it is possible that some of Jan's improvement
> was due to placebo. Heck, I felt better immediately after my amalgam
> removal. That quickly changed as the Hg flooded into my body. Even
> if Jan had some improvement due to placebo, that doesn't preclude
> her from having Hg poisoning.
>
> Re: Joel - this guy is an idiot. His posts do nothing for the credibility
> of the "pro amalgam" side. I don't think he could handle a real debate.
> All he does is post stupid articles and one-liners - what a dolt !
>
> So Jan, keep up the good work, fight the good fight. Time will prove
> us correct. Don't give up. It's tough, and usually lonely, being on the
> cutting edge, and going against the conventional wisdom.
After amalgam is no longer being used, a different group of people will
be fervently proclaiming that their composites are poisoning their bodies
and filing lawsuits against the ADA for promoting the use of composites.
And the circus will continue.
Nana Weedkiller
>
> Tony Bad <SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam> wrote in
> message
> news:0Z8A9.21179$wF2....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.
> ..
> > You sound like you have bought into Jan's brand
> of science. Glad it worked for
> > you, but that doesn't make it real.
>
>
> @@@@@@
>
>
> 17 micrograms .... POISON ........
>
> 6,000 tons ..... uh ... no problem!
We should fill out a EPA hazardous waste form for planet Earth and declare
it off limits for humans.
--
Dani's Nana
"I want just one and that's it!"--Dani
Lance Mannion
> Here's some reading for you:
>
> http://mining.ubc.ca/faculty/meech/fire4nat.htm
> http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Forest-Fire.htm
> http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Smoke-Biomass.htm
> http://www.ucar.edu/communications/staffnotes/0107/mercury.html
> http://www.des.state.nh.us/nhppp/origin20.pdf
> http://activetravel.about.com/library/bl_fireresources.htm
> http://www.etox.ucsc.edu/courses/etox%20144/alexa.html
Thanks! You help my argument. To quote:
"The immediate health threat near wildfires has not been
quantified, though Friedli cautioned that preliminary
measurements were only a few nanograms--a billionth of
a gram--per cubic meter of air. The EPA has established
an acceptable maximum level for airborne mercury of 300
nanograms per cubic meter."
Joel M. Eichen
>
> "Mark Probert"
<mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message
> news:aqr7ks$ch6g2$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
> > Here's some reading for you:
> >
> >
http://mining.ubc.ca/faculty/meech/fire4nat.htm
> >
tm
> >
http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Smoke-Biomass
.htm
> >
http://www.ucar.edu/communications/staffnotes/0107
/mercury.html
> > http://www.des.state.nh.us/nhppp/origin20.pdf
> >
http://activetravel.about.com/library/bl_fireresou
rces.htm
> >
http://www.etox.ucsc.edu/courses/etox%20144/alexa.
html
>
>
> "The immediate health threat near wildfires has
not been
> quantified, though Friedli cautioned that
preliminary
> measurements were only a few nanograms--a
billionth of
> a gram--per cubic meter of air. The EPA has
established
> an acceptable maximum level for airborne mercury
of 300
> nanograms per cubic meter."
>
>
REPLY:
Now calculate how many nanograms of mercury go
into the entire atmosphere when one guy is chewing
gum and releasing 17 micrograms ....... Oh pardon
me, six people chewing gum ........
Recalling the forest fire is 6,000 tons TONS!
>
>
Lance Mannion
> Nah...it only took a few nanoseconds...some people are just so lazy...
Not lazy, just thought Joel was full of ****.
Joel M. Eichen
Nana Weedkiller <nanawee...@yahoo.com> wrote
in message
news:IT9A9.7977$6Z....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> "Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote
in message
> news:7F8A9.27789$y45.97...@news.primus.ca...
> > Long time lurker, first time poster.
> >
> > I have watched with amusement the idiocy of
the dentists here on
> > this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and
ignore her postings.
> > The power of "groupthink" is quite amazing
when viewing it from
> > the outside as an unbiased observer.
> >
> > It is particularly amusing how powerful bias
can be, when a group
> > cannot recognize that something that is
hazardous waste by the
> > EPA's definition, is ok in the mouth.
>
> Your blood is a hazardous waste. Your feces and
urine is a hazardous waste.
> Why are these things ok in the body?
REPLY:
Blood is okay in the body ,,,, feces ,,,, less so
........
And on-the-body its verboten.
Lance Mannion
> > > REPLY:
> > > Any proof of that or is that just your opinion
> >
> > Oh come on! Have you ever worked in a company ?
> > Ever been in a lawsuit ? Did you see "60
> Minutes" on Sunday ? (the Monsanto story).
>
> REPLY:
> Translation
> LANCE: "I worked in a company
> and I saw 60 Minutes, therefore
> that is proof enough that amalgam
> is poisonous."
Now you're lying. You framed
this argument by saying "Any proof of that or is
that just your opinion how the establishment works?".
(My original statement was: "They are going to do
whatever they can to avoid legal liability for amalgams")
I replied to your statement.
Now you say: "therefore that is proof enough that
amalgam is poisonous." You're putting words in my
mouth. Jan is right, you are a blatant liar.
> Translation:
>
> There are lawyers meaning that all dentists are
> lying .........
Never said that. Now you see why, in my first post,
I called you an idiot. Jan is right. I think this is the
blathering she refers to. Thanks for proving my point.
Lance Mannion
> REPLY:
>
> So go study instead
> of calling me an idiot ......
>
> PS- I have an interest in this!
>
> Joel
No, you need to do some studying. You're the
one who implied forest fires' mercury was more
of a concern than amalgams. You have yet to show
anything related to how that Hg makes it into people's
body and makes their exposure even remotely
approach that of amalgams.
In fact, the posted studies seem to point in the
opposite direction:
Joel M. Eichen
@@@@@@@@
No, just a skillful orator!
@@@@@@@@
Joel M. Eichen
> > Translation:
> >
> > There are lawyers meaning that all dentists
are
> > lying .........
>
> Never said that. Now you see why, in my first
post,
> I called you an idiot. Jan is right. I think
this is the
> blathering she refers to. Thanks for proving my
point.
>
>
Which of course takes us far away from "WHY AMALAM
IS POISON" unless you want to throw out the Sixty
Minutes said so argument again ............
Joel M. Eichen
>
Banyan I mean Mannion, YOU ARE BUSTED.
Lance Mannion
> And the naysayers
> are so busy bashing
> the dentists that they
> do not have the time
> to clean the wax out
> of their ears .........
I don't bash all dentists, just those who cannot
actually think beyond what they hear from the
ADA lawyers....
Joel M. Eichen
(Banyan igoring the forest fire issue
............)
Joel M. Eichen
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> news:aqr9l1$cm2ln$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > REPLY:
> >
> > So go study instead
> > of calling me an idiot ......
> >
> > PS- I have an interest in this!
> >
> > Joel
>
> No, you need to do some studying. You're the
> one who implied forest fires' mercury was more
> of a concern than amalgams. You have yet to show
> anything related to how that Hg makes it into
people's
> body and makes their exposure even remotely
> approach that of amalgams.
>
To Kenny Banyan,
Okay, just watch out for the 6,000 ton mercury
blob dropping from the sky and forget the 17
microgram teensy mercury from the tooth .... See
if I care, Kenny.
Joel M. Eichen
Ahemmmmmmmm. Citing Sixty Minutes as your source?
Mark Probert
Airborne Hg becomes mercury in the soil, which runs off into streams and is
absorbed by fish which are eaten by people....
Joel M. Eichen
You wrote:
> Airborne Hg becomes mercury in the soil, which
runs off into streams and is
> absorbed by fish which are eaten by people....
>
>
REPLY:
They do not believe it because the dentists have
nothing to do with it .......... Oh wait, the ADA
lawyers make it rain I think ........ it IS their
fault ....... [I saw this one on Sixty Minutes].
Mark Probert
Which is washed out of the air when it rains, is then concentrated in the
soil as organic merucry compounds, which is then run-off inot streams and
lakes, which is then absorbed by fish, further concentrating it, and finally
consumed by people.
Jan made the point about not eating fish because of mercury content. From
what I read, she may have a good point.
Even the evil FDA makes a similar point.
Lance Mannion
> 17 micrograms .... POISON ........
>
> 6,000 tons ..... uh ... no problem!
Like you've always said, "the dose makes the poison".
Joel, you need to run down to the local high school and
sit in on a math class. That 6,000 tons translates into:
"The immediate health threat near wildfires has not been
quantified, though Friedli cautioned that preliminary
measurements were only a few nanograms--a billionth of
a gram--per cubic meter of air. The EPA has established
an acceptable maximum level for airborne mercury of 300
nanograms per cubic meter"
Assuming a "few" means 3, that is only 1%!!!!!!!! of the
EPA acceptable level. Assuming the 17 micrograms that
you say is true, this EXCEEDS the EPA accpetable level
by a factor of 3.
Your argument is now off by a factor of 300.
Add to that, people don't spend their lives "near wildfires",
but they do live with amalgams every day.
Your argument is now off by a factor of 1,000 or more.
Like you said, "the dose makes the poison".
References:
[The U.S.EPA mercury health standard(1) for elemental
mercury exposure(vapor) is 0.3 micrograms per cubic meter
of air(0.3 ug/M3). For the average adult breathing 20 M3
of air per day(2), this amounts to an exposure of 6
micrograms(ug) per day.]
(1) U.S. Environmental Protection Agency(EPA), 1996, "Integrated
Risk Information System, National Center for Invironmental
Assessment,Cincinnati, Ohio(& web).
(2) Mark Richardson, Environmental Health Directorate,Health Canada,
Assessment of Mercury Exposure and Risks from Dental Amalgam,
1995, Final Report, & G.M. Richardson et al,"A Monte Carlo
Assessment of Mercury Exposure and Risks from Dental Amalgam",
Human and Ecological Risk Assessment, 2(4): 709-761.
Lance Mannion
> REPLY:
> Now calculate how many nanograms of mercury go
> into the entire atmosphere when one guy is chewing
> gum and releasing 17 micrograms ....... Oh pardon
> me, six people chewing gum ........
>
> Recalling the forest fire is 6,000 tons TONS!
Like you've always said, "the dose makes the poison".
Joel, you need to run down to the local high school and
sit in on a math class. That 6,000 tons translates into:
"The immediate health threat near wildfires has not been
quantified, though Friedli cautioned that preliminary
measurements were only a few nanograms--a billionth of
a gram--per cubic meter of air. The EPA has established
an acceptable maximum level for airborne mercury of 300
Michael
sentence. And since your education is not in the medical field, your
statement cannot be taken in any more credible light than those of Jan's.
You should know, as a supposedly educated guy, that empirical testimony is
no substitute for a properly designed study, particularly if your education
is in statistics. You call dentists "idiots" yet you post a series of
statements that show that your opinion is indeed bias, as you claim
otherwise.
It's real simple, Lance, show us the science and refrain from empirical
testimony unless you place a caveat in that regard. Otherwise you appear
uneducated and ill-informed. And, Jan continually makes the same mistakes
that you did, which to an "educated" person should make you wonder. She is
inconsistent in her statements, often, and she strains on the gnat while
swallowing the camel, so to speak.
For a guy that lurks for some time, and then pops up with a post like yours,
only serves to indicate your lack of common sense.
M
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:7F8A9.27789$y45.97...@news.primus.ca...
> Long time lurker, first time poster.
>
> I have watched with amusement the idiocy of the dentists here on
> this NG, especially Joel, who attack Jan, and ignore her postings.
> Lance
>
>
Lance Mannion
>
> Which of course takes us far away from "WHY AMALAM
> IS POISON" unless you want to throw out the Sixty
> Minutes said so argument again ............
Now you're contradicting yourself. You originally said: "Any proof of
that or is that just your opinion of how the establishment works?"
So you're the one who "took us away from why amalgam is
poisonous", yet above, you fault me for it....
Lance Mannion
> Ahemmmmmmmm. Citing Sixty Minutes as your source?
Wow, you're really focusing your arguments now !
Lance Mannion
> Okay, just watch out for the 6,000 ton mercury
> blob dropping from the sky and forget the 17
> microgram teensy mercury from the tooth .... See
> if I care, Kenny.
Like you've always said, "the dose makes the poison".
Joel, you need to run down to the local high school and
sit in on a math class. That 6,000 tons translates into:
"The immediate health threat near wildfires has not been
quantified, though Friedli cautioned that preliminary
measurements were only a few nanograms--a billionth of
a gram--per cubic meter of air. The EPA has established
an acceptable maximum level for airborne mercury of 300
Dr. Steve
Can you all me an idiot too? I feel left out.
Am I the only one who suspects Lance, Jan and Nadine all share some
chromosomal material?
--
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Stephen Mancuso, D.D.S.
drs...@home.msen.com
Troy, Michigan USA
+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+
This posting is intended for informational or conversational purposes only.
Always seek the opinion of a licensed dental professional before acting on
the advice or opinion expressed here. Only a dentist who has examined you
in person can diagnose your problems and make decisions which will effect
your health.
......................
As a qualified and licensed dentist, I can assure you that Jan Drew's advice
and links can be safely ignored. She is retired daycare center owner with a
personal, ill-founded agenda. None of the qualified and licensed dentists
who frequent this group endorse her advice and the websites she provides
links to.
...........................
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:n_9A9.27996$Tg5.97...@news.primus.ca...
Lance Mannion
> Airborne Hg becomes mercury in the soil, which runs off into streams and
is
> absorbed by fish which are eaten by people....
True, and unfortunate...
Frankenfurter@transexualvania.edu Dr. Frankenfurter
> chromosomal material?
Not all of my early experiments were successful. So, sue me.
Dr. F
Lance Mannion
> Which is washed out of the air when it rains, is then concentrated in the
> soil as organic merucry compounds, which is then run-off inot streams and
> lakes, which is then absorbed by fish, further concentrating it, and
finally
> consumed by people.
>
> Jan made the point about not eating fish because of mercury content. From
> what I read, she may have a good point.
>
> Even the evil FDA makes a similar point.
You are correct, it does become concentrated on its way up the
food chain. I just made my argument to debunk Joel's simpleton
comparison of 6000 tons vs 17 micrograms.
Rich
<lancem...@nospam.net> wrote:
>Re: Rich's postings - it is possible that some of Jan's improvement
>was due to placebo.
Possible?? Some??
Please explain the following observations:
On March 4, 1999 Jan posted on usenet that she was feeling much better
since she thought that parasites were her entire problem and had a
cleanse that removed the parasites and she found that the burning
stinging pain of PN went away completely. Then after reading in Hulda
Clark's book about amalgams and mercury her health deteriorated over
the next few months to the point where she thought she was going to
die.
Over a two day period she had 8 amalgams removed. Hours after their
removal she reports feeling better than she had in TWO YEARS!! Do you
think any of that was due to mercury coming out of her system??
A week after the removal Jan reported that her neuropathic pain went
away completely (albeit transiently) and she was able to go out line
dancing for the first time in months. Do you think any of that was due
to the mercury coming out of her system??
You do realize that it is likely that the process of removing eight
amalgams in such a short time (even if done with good protocol) would
result in elevation of her mercury level. IN fact some alt dentists
suggest removing only one amalgams every three months to minimize this
effect.
You do realize that it is likely that at the time when her pain went
away and she was able to go out line dancing that her mercury level
was the highest in her life.
Please explain, given these facts how you can conclude that
psychologic factors were not likely the only important factors in her
illness. Please be specific. And please explain how you can reconcile
mercury poisoning with the history as presented??
Thanx,
Aloha,
Rich
Heck, I felt better immediately after my amalgam
> removal. That quickly changed as the Hg flooded into my body. Even
>if Jan had some improvement due to placebo, that doesn't preclude
>her from having Hg poisoning.
>
>Re: Joel - this guy is an idiot. His posts do nothing for the credibility
>of the "pro amalgam" side. I don't think he could handle a real debate.
>All he does is post stupid articles and one-liners - what a dolt !
>
>So Jan, keep up the good work, fight the good fight. Time will prove
>us correct. Don't give up. It's tough, and usually lonely, being on the
>cutting edge, and going against the conventional wisdom.
>
>Lance
>
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance.
Lance Mannion
news:IT9A9.7977$6Z....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
waste.
> Why are these things ok in the body?
Because they are essential to the life of the host. They are hazardous
waste because they can be "foreign" to another living organism.
> > to lots of Hg upon removal. The detox has taken a long time, and
> > has been extremely unpleasant.
>
> Unpleasant for you but profitable for those promoting the detox program.
True.
> After amalgam is no longer being used, a different group of people will
> be fervently proclaiming that their composites are poisoning their bodies
> and filing lawsuits against the ADA for promoting the use of composites.
> And the circus will continue.
True. But like you say "the dose makes the poison". I can guarantee you that
a population that has ceramic fillings is getting less exposure to a poison
than
a population getting 17 mcg Hg. I doubt many would dispute that.
Tony Bad
>
> But with amalgam, we're talking about *non* concentrated. i.e. one amalgam
> piece from one molar from one person is hazardous waste. Please name
> *anything* that goes into (or is in) our body that is hazardous waste
> outside
> our body in the ***same*** quantity, other than amalgam. (Biomatter does
> not count, because biomatter has specific benefit in the "host")
>
Take any prescription drugs?
Well, each little pill, whether it be antibiotics or narcotics is considered a
hazardous waste when it comes time to dispose.
>
> > Then again, conventional wisdom is often conventional because it is
> correct.
>
> Sometimes true, but I don't believe in this case.
I believe otherwise.
T
Tony Bad
>
> I don't bash all dentists, just those who cannot
> actually think beyond what they hear from the
> ADA lawyers....
>
this issue and it just happens we agree with what the ADA stated. The simple
fact two people agree on an issue doesn't mean one is simply blindly following
the other.
T
Joel M. Eichen
Because amalgam has been in use since 1837
........ there is no epidemiologic proof of harm
........ other than Jan Drew ranting about it
........
Besides, you want inlays, who is stopping you? No
one.
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Joel M. Eichen
danger but the 17 micrograms is!
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Lance Mannion <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in
message news:ylaA9.27$ru5.5...@news.primus.ca...
Lance Mannion
"Rich" <,@.> wrote in message
news:42d2tu4e8os7h45m3...@4ax.com...
Fine. Assuming her posts are quoted correctly, there may be placebo.
How much, I do not know. I will admit that may have occurred with me.
In the first day or two after amalgam removal, I felt great, until the Hg
started
flooding my system.
However, I still believe that Jan had/has Hg poisoning. She had/has PN,
(as did I), and had amalgams out. She has had her Hg levels go down.
I don't know enough about her history to comment on the issues you
raise. I would like to see her rebuttal. There may be an explanation for
the points you raise. The placebo effect does not preclude actual Hg
poisoning.
I am not saying you are wrong, but I am not saying Jan is wrong either.
I need to know more. Thanks.
Joel M. Eichen
>
> You are correct, it does become concentrated on
its way up the
> food chain. I just made my argument to debunk
Joel's simpleton
> comparison of 6000 tons vs 17 micrograms.
>
>
I stand corrected .... the 6,000 tons it hain't
nuttin' but the 17 micrograms ....? Oh watch
out!!!
Joel M. Eichen
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in
message
> news:aqr866$cntut$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > 17 micrograms .... POISON ........
> >
> > 6,000 tons ..... uh ... no problem!
>
> Like you've always said, "the dose makes the
poison".
> Joel, you need to run down to the local high
school and
> sit in on a math class. That 6,000 tons
translates into:
Banyan .....
This is the sixth post of the same name
........... does Seinfeld know?
Joel M. Eichen
Banyan,
Before getting too many composites, look into
pseudoestrogens ...........
Lance Mannion
"Tony Bad" <SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam> wrote in message
news:RIaA9.21248$wF2....@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Then I stand corrected. My perception (which may be wrong) is that
dentists just blindly follow the party line. You say that you do not. I
respect that.
Joel M. Eichen
Rich <,@.> wrote in message
news:42d2tu4e8os7h45m3...@4ax.com...
Mannion"
> <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Re: Rich's postings - it is possible that some
of Jan's improvement
> >was due to placebo.
>
> Possible?? Some??
Yup and it is recommended that Jan stop hiking in
the nude, if she wants a complete recovery.
Lance Mannion
> I get it now .... the 6,000 tons of mercury is NO
> danger but the 17 micrograms is!
You are amazing. I never said it was *NO* danger. I was simply
pointing out that your argument was off by a large factor.
Putting words in my mouth again. I see why Jan always says this!
Joel M. Eichen
REPLY:
Hi Banyan,
I follow the party line and the ADA sends me
$1,000 per month to spread lies ....... or so it
seems if you believe some of the fools posting
that on this newsgroup .........
Bye for now ... gotta check my postal mail for my
check .........
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Tony Bad
>
> Corporations/trade guilds and their lawyers have a fiduciary
> obligation to the their shareholders/constituents. Lawyers have
> an obligation to "zealously defend their clients". ADA lawyers
> are doing what they have been hired to do.
>
> Lance
>
And much of the recent information on many "hazards" in medical and dental world
has been driven by personal injury attorneys doing what they were hired to do.
T
Joel M. Eichen
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
I hear you must follow mercury detoxification by
hiking in the nude ........
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>
> However, I still believe that Jan had/has Hg
poisoning.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
We all believe that .... mercury poisoning, mind
poisoning ... who knows what else ..
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
>She had/has PN,
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Psychological Nutcaseitis .........
@@@@@@@@@@@@@
> (as did I), and had amalgams out. She has had
her Hg levels go down.
>
> I don't know enough about her history to comment
on the issues you
> raise. I would like to see her rebuttal. There
may be an explanation for
> the points you raise. The placebo effect does
not preclude actual Hg
> poisoning.
>
> I am not saying you are wrong, but I am not
saying Jan is wrong either.
@@@@@@@@@
We are saying it ... oh boy, we are!
@@@@@@@@@@@
Joel M. Eichen
17 micrograms .... it is teensy and can sneak up
on you .........
Lance Mannion <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in
message
news:k3bA9.149$Ww5.6...@news.primus.ca...
Lance Mannion
>
> "Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:7H9A9.27943$le5.97...@news.primus.ca...
> >
> > But with amalgam, we're talking about *non* concentrated. i.e. one
amalgam
> > piece from one molar from one person is hazardous waste. Please name
> > *anything* that goes into (or is in) our body that is hazardous waste
> > outside
> > our body in the ***same*** quantity, other than amalgam. (Biomatter does
> > not count, because biomatter has specific benefit in the "host")
> >
>
> Take any prescription drugs?
>
> Well, each little pill, whether it be antibiotics or narcotics is
considered a
> hazardous waste when it comes time to dispose.
Are you sure about that ? So if I dispose of one prozac pill, I am breaking
the law in some states ? I am skeptical !
But lets assume you are correct. When you take an Rx, you get an insert
which
shows you the risk profile of that drug. The risks are quantified and
disclosed
(although long term risks are a subject of debate with certain Rx's), and
have
been clinical trialed. People can make relatively informed decisions about
the
risk vs benefit.
With amalgam that is not the case. The risks have not been quantified and
clinical trialed.
Lance Mannion
> Banyan,
>
> Before getting too many composites, look into
> pseudoestrogens ...........
I did. Not as bad as mercury....
Rich
<SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam> wrote:
>Take any prescription drugs?
>
>Well, each little pill, whether it be antibiotics or narcotics is considered a
>hazardous waste when it comes time to dispose.
And Jan Drew has been taking TWO medications, Elavil and Neurontin for
years. I wonder why she voluntarily takes these two EEEEEEEEEEEVIL
medications.
After all her entire problem was CAUSED by taking all those
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL drugs. All those drugs wiped out her immune system
and made her vulnerable to parasite and mercury from amalgams.
Now she is dealing with the problem by taking MORE drugs (aka
hazardous waste). Lord have mercy!!!
Does Jan have an Elavil or Neurontin deficiency??
Why is she taking them.?
Does she not realize she is just covering up the real problem???
Just because her pain is going away from the drugs does not mean that
she is regaining her health. All she is doing is covering up the pain.
What she needs to do is get to the ROOT of the problem. She needs to
seek alternative doctors who will find the ROOT and not use
EEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL medications!!!
Jan has been brainwashed by EEEEEEEEEEEEEEVIL organized medicine to
think that she needs to take Elavil and Neurontin for the rest of her
life. Lord have mercy!!
Aloha,
Rich
Rich
<lancem...@nospam.net> wrote:
May be?? What gives you any doubt?? Be specific.
>How much, I do not know. I will admit that may have occurred with me.
>In the first day or two after amalgam removal, I felt great, until the Hg
>started
>flooding my system.
Yep. Jan also felt great right after the removal. Then a week later
when the mercury was likely flooding her system she reports that the
pain in her feet went away COMPLETTELY and she was able to go line
dancing for the first time in months. Please reconcile this with
mercury poisoning instead of placebo.
>
>However, I still believe that Jan had/has Hg poisoning.
Why, given her history? Please be specific why you think she had
mercury poisoning given her history as she stated it. This assumes
that she was being honest with her history.
She had/has PN,
>(as did I), and had amalgams out. She has had her Hg levels go down.
Yes, she has PN, had amalgams out. Her subsequent improvement
immediately and a week later strongly suggests that psychologic
factors were critical and there is NO evidence of mercury poisoning
despite her obsessive insistance. You have not provided a reason other
than you *believe* that she had mercury poisoning to support your
position.
As far as her mercury level eventually dropping that is irrelevant to
whether she had mercury poisoning since ANYONE who had amalgams
removed would have mercury level dropping. The key is to look at the
TIMING of her improvement with respect to the mercury level. And her
improvement occurred when her mercury level was likely the highest in
her life!!!
>
>I don't know enough about her history to comment on the issues you
>raise.
I provided her history in numerous posts. I reposted it at end of
this post.
I would like to see her rebuttal.
OK, here is her ENTIRE rebuttal:
><sigh>
>
>Rich is back from his hiking in the nude.
>
>Sun burnt brain and *other* things most likely.
>
>Rich is such a liar, he has nuked all his posts. What does that tell you?
>
>Jan
>There may be an explanation for
>the points you raise. The placebo effect does not preclude actual Hg
>poisoning.
I never said it did preclude it. But you need to provide more
evidence for mercury poisoning than "I believe she had mercury
poisoning". If that is your position then we could agree to disagree.
However I have provided what I believe is overwhelming evidence for
psychologic factors. I have seen NO credible evidence for mercury
poisoning.
>
>I am not saying you are wrong, but I am not saying Jan is wrong either.
>I need to know more.
OK here is my entire post in which I detail her history in her OWN
WORDS which I quote from her posts on usenet:
The power of the mind to cause dis-ease is legendary. The power of
the mind to reverse dis-ease and create a sense of well being is
equally legendary.
With the above words as introduction I present what I believe
is overwhelming evidence that Jan Drew's deterioration in health with
respect to her peripheral neuropathy was directly related to her
reading Hulda Clark's books and had absolutely NOTHING to do with
mercury poisoning. Note clearly that I am not claiming that amalgams
cannot cause mercury poisoning. I AM asserting that this clearly was
NOT the case with Jan Drew as she repeatedly claims.
But I will allow Jan Drew to tell you in her own words:
On March 4, 1999 Jan Drew made the following post to usenet (my
comments will follow the complete QUOTED VERBATIM post):
>I have layered problems. Peripheral neuropathy, parasites, my immune system is
>very weak, a antioxidant disfunction, system is low in glutamine, insitol,
>glucose-insulin interaction, fructose intolerance and the list goes on. At age
>43 I started having headaches and had one everyday all day for 12 years. I was
>a patient at Diamond Headache Clinic for 15 years, if took them 10 years to
>find what drug helped me. The list of drugs I tried was 2 pages long. I believe
>all those meds made my system toxic, then the parasites(they love toxins) next
>to go was my digestion, bowel problems. I hate to take all this space telling
>you all I have tried. I had not seen or heard of Hulda for years, didn't know
>she had written any books. When I became aware of that, I read them. I can
>understand why people are doubtful, and I am not sure I agree with all she
>says, but I do know that the zapper , the kidney cleanse (which took away all
>the burning & stinging-terrible pain in my feet) & the liver cleanse works. I
>used Now products for the parasites before I learned that Hulda had her own
>products. They helped me, but I didn't pass any large ones until I started on
>Hulda's products. I had doctored with her in the past with good results, thus
>my confidence was already established. I truly believe the parasites are the
>reason for all the problems. My brother is a foot doctor, he also believes
>they are. My experience with MD's was not good. I finally had more test done at
>the Florida Institute of Health (alternative) they did more in one day than the
>MD's had learned in 2 years.
>
>I hope you can now understand why AF, HD, and Yarrow have really upset me. I am
>happy for them if they have found relief, but are so close minded about any
>opinion other than their own, and the name calling and hate words displayed are
>completely absurd.
>
>Jan
Comments:
There are a number of noteworthy observations to make:
1) Notice that Jan expresses the belief that ALL of her problems are
due to parasites (I wonder where she got THAT idea).
2) Notice that Jan believed that the cleanses got rid of the parasites
that she believed were causing ALL the problems.
3) Notice especially how Jan reports that following the cleanse that
the burning, stinging pain went away COMPLETELY.
4) Notice the absence of ANY discussion about mercury poisoning,
amalgams, etc. (This is because she had not yet read about it in
Hulda's books..... she only got to the parasite section at this point)
5) Notice the absence of Jan believing that her health was rapidly
deteriorating and that she was close to death. In fact just the
opposite was true on March 4, 1999; Jan believed that she was
regaining her health because the cleanse had gotten rid of the
parasites. And it was Hulda's special cleanse that REALLY did the
trick in her mind.
Now this was Jan's state of mind on March 4, 1999 MARCH 4TH 1999
On June 16, 1999 about three and a half months later Jan reported that
her health had been rapidly deteriorating for MONTHS, that she could
not go line dancing due to the excruciating pain, and that she was
convinced that she had mercury poisoning secondary to amalgams and was
close to death.
What a dramatic deterioration in her health!!!!!!!!!!!!
On March 4. 1999 she felt pretty good. On June 16, 1999 she thought
she was dying. That is not even four months later!!!!
Now what caused this rapid decline in her health???
Days or weeks after making the March 4th post Jan read about the
amalgam, mercury, PN connection in one of Hulda Clark's books. The
more she read, the more convinced she became that her amalgams were
leeching mercury which caused her PN. And the more she believed it,
the more concerned she became. Anxiety, depression, obsessive worrying
then likely caused an exacerbation of her symptoms of PN to the point
where she thought she was going to die. You see Jan was already
completely convinced that Hulda was right about the parasites. It did
not take much to convince her that Hulda was right about the amalgams
too.
And then June 17, 1999 she had some amalgams removed.
On June 17, 1999 Jan posted to usenet:
>>I have peripheral neuropathy, and have been searching for a cause for over a
>>year. I have read Hulda Clark's books where she mentions the mercury problem. I
>>am only 35 miles from the dentist who sh is speaking with in her book. Dr.
>>Frank Jerome, who has written "Tooth Truth", a very enlightening book. I had my
>>first appointment today and 1/4 of my mouth is now mercury free. I go back
>>tomorrow to get another 1/4 done. Later, I will get my only root canal pulled.
>>I truly beleive this is the cause of my problems. If you have a condition that
>>the doctors can't find, it is wise to suspect the teeth.
>>
>>Thanks Again,
>>
>>Jan
On June 18, 1999
she had some more removed and on that same day reports that she felt
better than she had in two years!!
Here are her exact words posted on June 18th, 1999 to usenet
>
>>I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a
>>dentist (alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They
>>can cause all manner of things. He will remove them and put in composities. I
>>have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The others will come out in a few weeks,
>>along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.
>
>>If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take
>>care of you.
>
>>He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has
>>covered up this problem.
>
>>So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in
>>from all over to get the work done.
>
>>I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that
>>I have in the last 2 years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the
>>mercury out and the root canal pulled.
>
>>Jan
When Jan was asked how she could feel better than she had in two
years she said that it was because she felt relief that ALL the
amalgams had been removed and that her bill was paid off. This was
clearly a LIE since Jan still had some amalgams left and according to
her would not have them out for another few weeks.
Here are her exact words:
>Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was
>very true. I had been very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After
>much reading and research I was convinced it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely
>positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I knew I had to do something.
>It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.
>Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't
>have to sit in the dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my
>mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A big big burden was lifted.
>That makes one FEEL BETTER.
>
>What's so hard to understand?
Note how Jan talked about doing research and becoming convinced it was
the amalgams that caused her problem.
Notice closely how Jan originally claims that she felt better than she
did in two years BEFORE all the work was done. According to her the
work would not be completed for another few weeks!!!
And when I confronted her about this contradiction Jan said:
>I wasn't talking to you.
>Jan
Obviously Jan sees no problem telling one person one thing and then
contradicting herself by telling someone else something quite
different!!
Remember that on March 4, 1999 she
felt pretty good. But after having three quarters of her amalgams
removed she felt even better than that. And a week later she was able
to go line dancing for the first time in months.
Discussion (opinion):
The most likely explanation IMO for Jan Drew's improvement are
psychologic factors.
I believe that the deterioration in her health was largely due to her
worrying and obsessing about her being poisoned by mercury due to
buying into the idea that the amalgams were causing her health
problems. This also occurred when she thought she was infested with
parasites.
I also believe that the improvement in her health was
largely due to her relief that she finally was getting rid of what she
believed was causing her problem. She had a similar response after
having a cleanse that she believed got rid of parasites.
IOW I believe that Jan Drew is an
excellent example of the power of placebo and that her history is
consistent with psychologic factors affecting physical illness
although I recommend competent health professional to evaluate her for
a more definitive opinion.
I have no doubt that her mercury level is declining. After all she had
all her amalgams removed. The question is whether at the highest level
was the mercury level causing any significant health problems for Jan
Drew. Jan certainly believes that it was. Her history, IMO, strongly
suggests otherwise.
I predict that Jan will respond to this post in one of the following:
1)She will ignore it and/or put me in her kill file
2) She will snip most of what I say and accuse me of lying without
specifically saying what I lied about
3) She will divert from the topic by accusing me of various things
including but not limited to a)hiking in the nude b) using her parents
to belittle her, c)being obsessed with her, d) calling me a Jew-boy,
pervert or some other creative insult from Jan "it is NEVER right to
belittle" Drew. Perhaps she will wish some disability on me.
What she will NOT do is
1) Discuss the subject in a reasonable fashion
2) Point out any lies that she continues to accuse me of
What she will likely end up doing is violating two of the Ten
Commandments:
1) Thou shalt not lie (she does this when she accuses me of lying with
respect to her history as I provided it WITH direct citations from
Jan)
2) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor (again doing
this by accusing me of various things such as lying and/or stalking).
And finally if you have unanswered health problems my suggestion is to
NOT take the advice of Jan Drew. And if you are foolish enough to
listen to her please don't say that I did not warn you.
Aloha,
Rich
Nana Weedkiller
Jan expect us to find a mercury free dentist?
--
Dani's Nana
"I want just one and that's it!"--Dani
Lance Mannion
"Michael" <melh...@inreach.com> wrote in message
news:3dd13341$0$24248$4c41...@reader0.ash.ops.us.uu.net...
> Lance.. For a supposedly educated guy, you should learn to make a
proper
> sentence. And since your education is not in the medical field, your
> statement cannot be taken in any more credible light than those of Jan's.
> You should know, as a supposedly educated guy, that empirical testimony is
> no substitute for a properly designed study, particularly if your
education
> is in statistics.
Never said it was.
> You call dentists "idiots"
Nope, only the ones here who disagree with Jan.
> yet you post a series of
> statements that show that your opinion is indeed bias
I disagree
> It's real simple, Lance, show us the science
Google: "mercury poisoning amalgam"
> and refrain from empirical
> testimony unless you place a caveat in that regard. Otherwise you appear
> uneducated and ill-informed. And, Jan continually makes the same mistakes
> that you did, which to an "educated" person should make you wonder. She is
> inconsistent in her statements, often, and she strains on the gnat while
> swallowing the camel, so to speak.
>
> For a guy that lurks for some time, and then pops up with a post like
yours,
> only serves to indicate your lack of common sense.
Common sense is why I removed my amalgams.
Lance Mannion
news:20021112180915...@mb-cc.aol.com...
> >Are you sure about that ? So if I dispose of one prozac pill, I am
breaking
> >the law in some states ? I am skeptical !
> >
>
looking for
> is gullible. Still, you are aware (I hope) that human blood is considered
> hazardous waste. What? You say you have human blood in your veins??!?!?
Good
> Grief, that's hazardous waste!!!! Get it removed IMMEDIATELY!!!!!
Bad analogy. Biomatter has benefit to the host. It actually *does* change
into
hazardous waste when leaving the body, because it can harm others. Amalgam's
effect is not "host-depedent", like biomatter. That's why your logic does
not refute
my inference: amalgam is bad for you when in you, because it is an EPA
hazard
when out of you.
NOYB
"Dr. Steve" <drs...@home.msen.com> wrote in message
news:ut2cth8...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hey Lance,
>
> Can you all me an idiot too? I feel left out.
>
> Am I the only one who suspects Lance, Jan and Nadine all share some
> chromosomal material?
Yeah...from a gene pool with too much chlorine in it.
NOYB
environment each year. How much does he say dental amalgam contributes to
that? Oh, about 0.046%. Here's the link:
<http://www.chem.unep.ch/mercury/Report/report-chapter6.pdf>
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:mM9A9.27956$q85.97...@news.primus.ca...
>
> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:aqr81t$cl2qp$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > It is the dosage that makes a toxin .......
>
> Exactly, which is why I doubt that forest fires
> cause anywhere near the Hg exposure that
> amalgams do. I may be wrong. I've never studied
> forest fires effects on Hg levels....
>
>
NOYB
fish is from man-eating fish that eat people with lots of amalgam.
"Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aqrb66$bv6f3$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:S2aA9.28008$Mi5.98...@news.primus.ca...
> >
> > "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:aqr9l1$cm2ln$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > > REPLY:
> > >
> > > So go study instead
> > > of calling me an idiot ......
> > >
> > > PS- I have an interest in this!
> > >
> > > Joel
> >
> > No, you need to do some studying. You're the
> > one who implied forest fires' mercury was more
> > of a concern than amalgams. You have yet to show
> > anything related to how that Hg makes it into people's
> > body and makes their exposure even remotely
> > approach that of amalgams.
> >
> > In fact, the posted studies seem to point in the
> > opposite direction:
> > "The immediate health threat near wildfires has not been
> > quantified, though Friedli cautioned that preliminary
> > measurements were only a few nanograms--a billionth of
> > a gram--per cubic meter of air. The EPA has established
> > an acceptable maximum level for airborne mercury of 300
> > nanograms per cubic meter."
>
> Airborne Hg becomes mercury in the soil, which runs off into streams and
is
> absorbed by fish which are eaten by people....
>
>
>
>
>
NOYB
greater than 800.
"Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aqr850$cb3up$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> Wow! Mark thanks .... you are on the ball! VERY
> much so!
>
> ***
>
> "At the very least, the experiments could change
> the way scientists think about mercury pollution.
> Friedli has estimated that as much as 800 tons of
> mercury may enter the atmosphere annually from
> burning vegetation worldwide--ranging from
> wildfires to farmers clearing underbrush"
>
> ****
>
>
>
> Mark Probert
> <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message
> news:aqr7ks$ch6g2$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
> >
> > "Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote
> in message
> > news:rP8A9.27814$WX4.96...@news.primus.ca...
> > >
> > > "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote
> in message
> > >
> news:aqr5a3$chmjr$1...@ID-166202.news.dfncis.de...
> > > > Stay indoors. Forest fires released 6,000
> tons of
> > > > mercury one weekend this past summer.
> Amalgams
> > > > release 17 micrograms ....... Statistician,
> eh???
> > >
> > > Yup. I sure am. Please cite a source that
> shows:
> > >
> > > 1. That forest fires released 6,000 tons of Hg
> > > 2. How that Hg makes it into people's body
> > > and makes their exposure even remotely
> > > approach that of amalgams.
> > >
> > > Thank You
> >
> > Here's some reading for you:
> >
> > http://mining.ubc.ca/faculty/meech/fire4nat.htm
> >
> http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Forest-Fire.h
> tm
> >
> http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Smoke-Biomass
> .htm
> >
> http://www.ucar.edu/communications/staffnotes/0107
> /mercury.html
> > http://www.des.state.nh.us/nhppp/origin20.pdf
> >
> http://activetravel.about.com/library/bl_fireresou
> rces.htm
> >
> http://www.etox.ucsc.edu/courses/etox%20144/alexa.
> html
> >
> > If you need more info, try a Google
> search...takes only nanoseconds...
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
NOYB
ADA's stance. Perhaps that's because the ADA uses data from those sources
and organizations to formulate their opinion?
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:k1bA9.143$8B5.7...@news.primus.ca...
NOYB
each cubic meter has "a few nanograms", then that's a significant source of
mercury in our environment. That mercury makes its way into the water you
drink, the fish you eat, and the air you breathe. If you want to think that
you get more mercury from a couple of amalgams, then you're deluding
yourself.
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:1T9A9.27973$2h5.97...@news.primus.ca...
>
> "Mark Probert" <mark_probertX...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:aqr7ks$ch6g2$1...@ID-78438.news.dfncis.de...
> > Here's some reading for you:
> >
> > http://mining.ubc.ca/faculty/meech/fire4nat.htm
> > http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Forest-Fire.htm
> > http://www.mindfully.org/Air/Mercury-Smoke-Biomass.htm
> > http://www.ucar.edu/communications/staffnotes/0107/mercury.html
> > http://www.des.state.nh.us/nhppp/origin20.pdf
> > http://activetravel.about.com/library/bl_fireresources.htm
> > http://www.etox.ucsc.edu/courses/etox%20144/alexa.html
>
> Thanks! You help my argument. To quote:
NOYB
effects from the removal of the amalgam is *immediate*? Why the immediate
improvement from removing the stuff from your avascular teeth, but the
delayed worsening from the stuff flowing through your very vascular organs?
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:e%aA9.137$oD5.9...@news.primus.ca...
Louis Core
> piece from one molar from one person is hazardous waste.
Says who?
The one piece of amalgam is not liquid mercury, any more than spilled
table salt is liquid chlorine.
Louis
Louis Core
>
> Nope, only the ones here who disagree with Jan.
So the litmus test of idiocy is agreement/disagreement with someone on the internet.
Wow.
NOYB
"Louis Core" <lsc...@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:edce5635.02111...@posting.google.com...
Hehehe. I like that. Great analogy.
Joel M. Eichen
NOYB <NO...@NOYB.com> wrote in message
news:oelA9.181511$r7.33...@twister.tampabay.rr.c
om...
> Studies by Mason have estimated that 5000 tons
of mercury enters the
> environment each year. How much does he say
dental amalgam contributes to
> that? Oh, about 0.046%. Here's the link:
>
>
<http://www.chem.unep.ch/mercury/Report/report-cha
pter6.pdf>
>
By the way, all of us believe that lead, mercury,
antimony, etc. need to be controlled and kept out
of the food chain. Environmentalists will include
lots of other schemata also.
However, show me an anti-amalgamist, an anti-root
canal therapy person, a NICO person, and a
composite compatibility testing fool and the
common thread is ANIT-DENTISTRY.
These folks are called anti-dentites.
Dental bashers at best.
Joel M. Eichen DDS
Joel M. Eichen
Talk to me when your voice goes three octaves
higher .........
Tim Tyler
: Lance Mannion <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in
:> "Joel M. Eichen" <joele...@yahoo.com> wrote in
:> > REPLY:
:> > Any proof of that or is that just your opinion of
:> > how the establishment works?
:>
:> Oh come on! Have you ever worked in a company ?
:> Ever been in a lawsuit ? Did you see "60 Minutes" on
:> Sunday ? (the Monsanto story).
: REPLY:
: Translation
: LANCE: "I worked in a company
: and I saw 60 Minutes, therefore
: that is proof enough that amalgam
: is poisonous."
That's a complete distortion - not a translation.
--
__________
|im |yler http://timtyler.org/ t...@tt1.org
Joel M. Eichen
Tim Tyler <t...@tt1.org> wrote in message
news:H5IIv...@bath.ac.uk...
REPLY:
Hey TIM!
Who brought up Sixty Minutes?
The "amalgam is poison" is the only distortion.
Joel M. Eichen DDS
(48 hours)
Lance Mannion
news:oelA9.181511$r7.33...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> environment each year. How much does he say dental amalgam contributes to
> that? Oh, about 0.046%. Here's the link:
>
> <http://www.chem.unep.ch/mercury/Report/report-chapter6.pdf>
Your words say it exactly: "enters the *enironment*". I am not
talking about that. I am talking about what "enters the person":
the 17mcg per day per person.
Lance Mannion
as opposed to definitive studies (similar to clinical trials) that show
safety.
Similar to what you would find for other things that poison a landfill (that
we
also put in our bodies), like Rx's.
"NOYB" <NO...@NOYB.com> wrote in message
news:iklA9.181617$r7.33...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Lance Mannion
> And 2.3 tons from dental amalgam. Of course, in Lance's world, 2.3 is
> greater than 800.
Actually, it is, when the source of it is sitting in your mouth,
not the environment. So yes, the release from dental amalgam
causes greater exposure than the 800.
In Lance's world, we care about actual human exposure.
Lance Mannion
> The atmosphere surely contains a whole lot of "cubic meters of air". If
> each cubic meter has "a few nanograms", then that's a significant source
of
> mercury in our environment.
Yup. More than amalgams. Way more....
> That mercury makes its way into the water you
> drink, the fish you eat, and the air you breathe.
That's right, but "the dose makes the poison", so how does that translate
into actual exposure.
> If you want to think that
> you get more mercury from a couple of amalgams, then you're deluding
> yourself.
It's not even close. The 17 mcg / day far exceeds other sources. The
exception
would be if you eat lots of certain types of fish. But air and water, not
even
remotely close....
Lance Mannion
Amalgam pieces have hazardous disposal guidelines, last I checked.
Amalgam leaks Hg. Even the ADA admits that....
Lance Mannion
> Talk to me when your voice goes three octaves
> higher .........
I'll take that over Hg poisoning anyday....
Lance Mannion
Not usually. This is the rare exception, because this is one of the few
arguments that has *years* worth of documentation. I originally came
in as an unbiased observer, but swung to Jan's side after I read the
arguments and did research on my own....
Lance Mannion
Amalgam leaks Hg. No one disputes that. Last time I checked,
I didn't need to worry about chlorine gas when I used my salt
shaker.....
Lance Mannion
> It takes "a day or two" for the amalgam to flood your system, but the
> effects from the removal of the amalgam is *immediate*? Why the immediate
> improvement from removing the stuff from your avascular teeth, but the
> delayed worsening from the stuff flowing through your very vascular
organs?
Yes, I probably had some placebo effect right after removal. I remember
feeling
great (maybe it was placebo, maybe it was relief that hours long surgery was
over, I don't know).
As the Hg levels rose, after the removal, I began to feel sick.
Mark Probert
lie.
"NOYB" <NO...@NOYB.com> wrote in message
news:oelA9.181511$r7.33...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
Mark Probert
that danger exists, why believe it exists?
"Lance Mannion" <lancem...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:O_rA9.26$we.3...@news.primus.ca...