"Our detractors" - Ignore them!
Peter Meiers
--
-History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-:
--- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm ---
-------------------------------------------------
Tony Bad
"Peter Meiers" <PMe...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3DA323...@t-online.de...
What is the message here...please spell it out for this "craftsman".
T
Jan
>From: "Tony Bad" SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam
>Date: 10/8/02 11:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <TFFo9.44191$GF5.2...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
>
>
>"Peter Meiers" <PMe...@t-online.de> wrote in message
>news:3DA323...@t-online.de...
>> http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/dentistry.htm
>>
>> --
>> -History of fluorine, fluoride and fluoridation-:
>> --- http://PMeiers.bei.t-online.de/index.htm ---
>> -------------------------------------------------
>
>What is the message here..
"Myths also flourish by the coercive control of learned societies and
distinguished groups. Then myths die hard, because it is difficult for
scientific fact and common sense to demonstrate the myths´ absurdity and
harmfulness. They seldom die a real decent death when pompous individuals will
to ´believe´ rather than to ´conclude´.
===========================
Is that clear enough???
>.please spell it out for this "craftsman".
>
>T
Craftman, my foot.
In DENIAL even when it is SPELLED OUT!!!
Jan
Tony Bad
Jan you stupid fuck. I asked if we could engage in more polite discourse
and right out of the box you start with the denial crap. Just ignore my
posts will you please you miserable old hag!
T
"Jan" <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021008161322...@mb-fs.aol.com...
Peter Meiers
Well, in writing the article mentioned above the fate of some people who
used to participate in some of the discussions here came to my mind:
"The one great lesson to be learned from our detractors is to ignore
them. This is not always easy, but it becomes necessary if we are to
cope successfully with them"
I suddenly realized that this kind of "ignorance" has some history. The
quote is from 1938.
There are other (historic) ways too to silence unbeloved people, e.g.
visits by groups of dentists to force people to withdraw articles sent
to journals. Like Clinton T. Messner, H. T. Dean愀 former boss, and his
gang did to silence Thomas Hartzell. A historic fact of 1924, written
down by Messner in a letter to then Surgeon General Cummings. But the
same things happened to antifluoride folks.
Best,
Peter
Tony Bad
T
"Peter Meiers" <PMe...@t-online.de> wrote in message
news:3DA33F...@t-online.de...
Jan
>From: "Tony Bad" SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam
>Message-id: <AaHo9.45209$GF5.2...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
>
>I wanted the opinion of the person who posted this, not your slant on it
>Jan you stupid fuck.
Say what??
> I asked if we could engage in more polite discourse
You did no such thing, you spouted off like a smart alec,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
>and right out of the box you start with the denial crap. Just ignore my
>posts will you please you miserable old hag!
>
>T
No, I won't and name calling is a character defect.
Temper. Temper.
Jan
Tony Bad
>
> No, I won't and name calling is a character defect.
>
...and calling me or a group to which I belong pompous and in denial is a
compliment? I guess we suffer from the same character deficit. You are a
duplicitous fool if you honestly believe this. You stand there pointing
your self righteous fingers at everyone else when you are really the
catalyst for all this crap. You need to find a hobby other than baiting
people and clogging this newsgroup with your agenda. We'd all be better
off.
T
Jan
>From: "Tony Bad" SpamSp...@bakedbeans.spam
>Message-id: <khKo9.45738$GF5.2...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>
>
>
>"Jan" <jdrew...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20021008164747...@mb-fs.aol.com...
>>
>> No, I won't and name calling is a character defect.
>>
>
>...and calling me or a group to which I belong pompous
Nope, never.
>and in denial is a
>compliment?
In denial, without a doubt. Nothing was mentioned about compliments.
>I guess we suffer from the same character deficit.
I seldom call names.
>You are a
>duplicitous fool if you honestly believe this. You stand there pointing
>your self righteous fingers
No, there is nothing self righteous about me.
>You need to find a hobby other than baiting
>people and clogging this newsgroup with your agenda. We'd all be better
>off.
I am here for one reason.
*IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH!
NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metal
in the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol.
I did, it saved my life.
Mercury is Poisonous.
There is NO safe form of Mercury in living tissue.
The mercury vapor from dental amalgam alone is a bigger source than all the
other sources together.
U151 identifies mercury as a toxic waste.
Mercury is also recovered from discarded products and wastes such as
chlor-alkali wastes, dental amalgams, fluorescent light tubes, electronic
devices, and others. The mercury is vaporized in a retort and collected by
condensation. Condensed mercury is then distilled to remove impurities.
***The Environmental Protection Agency is working to reduce the amount of
mercury
in the environment *****
http://www.ehs.ucsf.edu/Manuals/CSM/Csm_Chapter9.htm
17. DENTAL AMALGAM
Dental amalgams are mixtures of mercury with silver tin alloy. Cal-EPA
regulates them as ***chemical waste.*** Submit Chemical Waste Removal Form for
its disposal.
Rich
>I am here for one reason.
>
>*IF* you have an unanswered health problem,,,,,,,,CHECK THE TEETH!
>
>NOT by a mainstream dentist, but an Alt. dentist who KNOWS the dangers of metal
>in the mouth and root canals, and follows correct protocol.
>
>I did, it saved my life.
The facts according to Jan Drew:
1) She was diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy
2) She was put on Elavil and Neurontin which Jan reports significantly
improved her symptoms
3) She was told by her MD that they did not know what caused her
peripheral neuropathy
4) For a year Jan searched for a reason for her PN
5) She discovered a possible cause for her PN after reading a book by
Hulda Clark author of A Cure For All Cancers (Hulda believes that ALL
cancer is caused by a liver fluke and that she can cure all cancers by
a combination of a "zapper" and a course of herbs/supplements and
proper nutrition)
6) Jan became convinced after doing research that she indeed likely
had mercury poisoning from the amalgams.
7) Jan noticed a rapid and progressive deterioration in her health
that resulted in her believing that she was going to die.
8) On June 17, 1999 Jan had a quarter of her amalgams removed by Dr.
Frank Jerome, author of Tooth Truth. Dr. Frank, dentist believes that
mercury amalgams cause a wide variety of health problems and much of
his practice involves removing amalgams and replacing them with
composites, a procedure that Jan Drew underwent.
>On June 17, 1999 Jan posted to usenet:
>
>>I have peripheral neuropathy, and have been searching for a cause for over a
>>year. I have read Hulda Clark's books where she mentions the mercury problem. I
>>am only 35 miles from the dentist who sh is speaking with in her book. Dr.
>>Frank Jerome, who has written "Tooth Truth", a very enlightening book. I had my
>>first appointment today and 1/4 of my mouth is now mercury free. I go back
>>tomorrow to get another 1/4 done. Later, I will get my only root canal pulled.
>>I truly beleive this is the cause of my problems. If you have a condition that
>>the doctors can't find, it is wise to suspect the teeth.
>>
>>Thanks Again,
>>
>>Jan
9) On June 18, 1999 had more of her amalgams removed and reported on
usenet ON THE VERY SAME DAY that she had the amalgams removed within
HOURS of their removal that she felt better than she had in TWO
YEARS!!
>Here are her exact words posted on June 18th, 1999 to usenet
>
>>I have been reading this thread. I have peripheral neuropathy. I have found a
>>dentist (alternative) who knows that mercury amalgams are very dangerous. They
>>can cause all manner of things. He will remove them and put in composities. I
>>have just had 3/4 of mine remover. The others will come out in a few weeks,
>>along with the one root canal, which will be extracted.
>
>>If an individual has read on this subject and is knowledgable, he will take
>>care of you.
>
>>He has written "Tooth Truth and tells it like it is. He tells how the ADA has
>>covered up this problem.
>
>>So, it is just a matter of finding the right dentist. He has people flying in
>>from all over to get the work done.
>
>>I believe the mercury is the cause of my problems. I hav felt better today that
>>I have in the last 2 years, and am looking forward to getting the rest of the
>>mercury out and the root canal pulled.
>
>>Jan
10) When Jan was asked how she could feel better than she had in two
years she said that it was because she felt relief that ALL the
amalgams had been removed and that her bill was paid off. This was
clearly a LIE since Jan still had some amalgams left and according to
her would not have them out for another few weeks.
Here are her exact words:
>Rich for the LAST time, I said I felt better than I had in two years. That was
>very true. I had been very very ill and my health was deteriorating fast. After
>much reading and research I was convinced it was my teeth. I wasn't absolutely
>positivity 100% sure, but it all fit together and I knew I had to do something.
>It wasn't easy, what if it didn't work? That was very stressful.
>Finally all the work was done, the metal was out, the bill was paid, I didn't
>have to sit in the dentist chairs for hours with a rubber dam in my
>mouth!!!!!!!!!! Of course I was very relieved. A big big burden was lifted.
>That makes one FEEL BETTER.
>
>What's so hard to understand?
11) Jan posted on sci.med.dentisty that she knew that it was the
amalgams that were causing her health problem because she began to
regain her health AFTER her mercury began to drop. This is also a
complete lie since she experience this improvement, better than she
had felt in two years, within hours of having some of the amalgams
removed and NOT when she had them all removed which she claims above.
12) Jan claims that I told some lies when I provided the above
history.
13) Repeated attempts to ask Jan Drew what lies I told result in her
refusing to answer and instead diverting the topic by personal insults
and belittling.
AFAIK the above is true and is based upon Jan Drew's own account of
her history.
Discussion (OPINION):
The most likely explanation IMO for Jan Drew's improvement to the
point where she felt better than she had in two years (which btw is
VERY significant since she reports and rapid decline in health in the
months prior to the removal of the amalgams) are psychologic factors.
I believe that the deterioration in her health was largely due to her
worrying and obsessing about her being poisoned by mercury due to
buying into the idea that the amalgams were causing her health
problems. I also believe that the improvement in her health was
largely due to her relief that she finally was getting rid of what she
believed was causing her problem. IOW I believe that Jan Drew is an
excellent example of the power of placebo and that her history is
consistent with psychologic factors affecting physical illness
although I recommend competent health professional to evaluate her for
a more definitive opinion.
I have no doubt that her mercury level is declining. After all she had
all her amalgams removed. The question is whether at the highest level
was the mercury level causing any significant health problems for Jan
Drew. Jan certainly believes that it was. Her history, IMO, strongly
suggests otherwise.
I predict that Jan will respond to this post in one of the following:
1)She will ignore it and put me in her kill file
2) She will snip most of what I say and accuse me of lying without
specifically saying what I lied about
3) She will divert from the topic by accusing me of various things
including but not limited to a)hiking in the nude b) using her parents
to belittle her, c)being obsessed with her, d) calling me a Jew-boy,
pervert or some other creative insult from Jan "it is NEVER right to
belittle" Drew. Perhaps she will wish some disability on me. Or maybe
start a new thread just to attack me personally.
What she will NOT do is
1) Discuss the subject in a reasonable fashion
2) Point out any lies that she continues to accuse me of
What she will likely end up doing is violating two of the Ten
Commandments:
1) Thou shalt not lie (she does this when she accuses me of lying with
respect to her history as I provided it WITH direct citations from
Jan)
2) Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor (again doing
this by accusing me of various things such as lying and/or stalking).
And finally if you have unanswered health problems my suggestion is to
NOT take the advice of Jan Drew. And if you are foolish enough to
listen to her please don't say that I did not warn you.
The power of the mind to cause dis-ease is legendary. The power of
the mind to reverse dis-ease and create a sense of well being is
equally legendary.
With the above words as introduction I present what I believe
is overwhelming evidence that Jan Drew's deterioration in health with
respect to her peripheral neuropathy was directly related to her
reading Hulda Clark's books and had absolutely NOTHING to do with
mercury poisoning. Note clearly that I am not claiming that amalgams
cannot cause mercury poisoning. I AM asserting that this clearly was
NOT the case with Jan Drew as she repeatedly claims.
But I will allow Jan Drew to tell you in her own words:
On March 4, 1999 Jan Drew made the following post to usenet (my
comments will follow the complete QUOTED VERBATIM post):
>I have layered problems. Peripheral neuropathy, parasites, my immune system is
>very weak, a antioxidant disfunction, system is low in glutamine, insitol,
>glucose-insulin interaction, fructose intolerance and the list goes on. At age
>43 I started having headaches and had one everyday all day for 12 years. I was
>a patient at Diamond Headache Clinic for 15 years, if took them 10 years to
>find what drug helped me. The list of drugs I tried was 2 pages long. I believe
>all those meds made my system toxic, then the parasites(they love toxins) next
>to go was my digestion, bowel problems. I hate to take all this space telling
>you all I have tried. I had not seen or heard of Hulda for years, didn't know
>she had written any books. When I became aware of that, I read them. I can
>understand why people are doubtful, and I am not sure I agree with all she
>says, but I do know that the zapper , the kidney cleanse (which took away all
>the burning & stinging-terrible pain in my feet) & the liver cleanse works. I
>used Now products for the parasites before I learned that Hulda had her own
>products. They helped me, but I didn't pass any large ones until I started on
>Hulda's products. I had doctored with her in the past with good results, thus
>my confidence was already established. I truly believe the parasites are the
>reason for all the problems. My brother is a foot doctor, he also believes
>they are. My experience with MD's was not good. I finally had more test done at
>the Florida Institute of Health (alternative) they did more in one day than the
>MD's had learned in 2 years.
>
>I hope you can now understand why AF, HD, and Yarrow have really upset me. I am
>happy for them if they have found relief, but are so close minded about any
>opinion other than their own, and the name calling and hate words displayed are
>completely absurd.
>
>Jan
Comments:
There are a number of noteworthy observations to make:
1) Notice that Jan expresses the belief that ALL of her problems are
due to parasites (I wonder where she got THAT idea).
2) Notice that Jan believed that the cleanses got rid of the parasites
that she believed were causing ALL the problems.
3) Notice especially how Jan reports that following the cleanse that
the burning, stinging pain went away COMPLETELY.
4) Notice the absence of ANY discussion about mercury poisoning,
amalgams, etc. (This is because she had not yet read about it in
Hulda's books..... she only got to the parasite section at this point)
5) Notice the absence of Jan believing that her health was rapidly
deteriorating and that she was close to death. In fact just the
opposite was true on March 4, 1999; Jan believed that she was
regaining her health because the cleanse had gotten rid of the
parasites. And it was Hulda's special cleanse that REALLY did the
trick in her mind.
Now this was Jan's state of mind on March 4, 1999 MARCH 4TH 1999
On June 16, 1999 about three and a half months later Jan reported that
her health had been rapidly deteriorating for MONTHS, that she could
not go line dancing due to the excruciating pain, and that she was
convinced that she had mercury poisoning secondary to amalgams and was
close to death.
What a dramatic deterioration in her health!!!!!!!!!!!!
On March 4. 1999 she felt pretty good. On June 16, 1999 she thought
she was dying. That is not even four months later!!!!
Now what caused this rapid decline in her health???
Days or weeks after making the March 4th post Jan read about the
amalgam, mercury, PN connection in one of Hulda Clark's books. The
more she read, the more convinced she became that her amalgams were
leeching mercury which caused her PN. And the more she believed it,
the more concerned she became. Anxiety, depression, obsessive worrying
then likely caused an exacerbation of her symptoms of PN to the point
where she thought she was going to die. You see Jan was already
completely convinced that Hulda was right about the parasites. It did
not take much to convince her that Hulda was right about the amalgams
too.
And then June 17, 1999 she had some amalgams removed. On June 18, 1999
she had some more removed and on that same day reports that she felt
better than she had in two years!! Remember that on March 4, 1999 she
felt pretty good. But after having three quarters of her amalgams
removed she felt even better than that. And a week later she was able
to go line dancing for the first time in months.
Her history strongly suggests that the deterioration in her health was
directly the result of her obsessively worrying that her amalgams were
causing mercury poisoning. This rapidly led to her worsening of
symptoms and thinking that she was going to die. And just as quickly,
when what she thought was causing the problem (amalgams) were removed,
her symptoms resolved and she felt better than she had in two years
and was able to go line dancing.
Now it is clear to anyone who is not delusional,ignorant or in
complete denial that there is no possible way that her mercury level
could have dropped instantly or even after a week to explain her
improvement. And similarly there is likely no way that her mercury
level suddenly increased after March 4, 1999 to explain the sudden
deterioration in her health.
The combination of her rapid deterioration in health following reading
about mercury/amalgams/PN and rapid improvement in health following
removal of amalgams makes it blatantly obvious that her exacerbation
in symptoms AND subsequent improvement was likely COMPLETELY due to
psychologic factors.
It is likely that Mrs. Drew is going to respond to this post with
nothing but personal attacks. She will call me a liar but will fail to
produce any lies that I told. I have given her history accurately
AFAIK and have given my opinion which logically follows from her
history.
To this point only Karuna has attempted to debate with me whether her
history is due to mercury poisoning or due to psychologic factors. I
believe that the added information from her post on March 4, 1999
really clinches the conclusion of the psychologic factors that were
dominant in both the dramatic exacerbation of her symptoms as well as
the subsequent dramatic improvement. Karuna seemed to be surprised
that a placebo response could alone explain her feeling so much
better. Well just look at how reading about amalgams and mercury
caused her to feel that bad (close to death in June, 1999 after
feeling so good on March 4th, 1999).
I think this anecdotes strongly suggests that people like Hulda Clark
can really cause people who are suggestible, great harm. This is my
opinion and I feel strongly about it.
If anyone would like to debate with me whether Jan Drew's history is
consistent with mercury poisoning let me know. If I get no takers I
will understand:-))))
Aloha,
Rich
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
The best defense to logic is ignorance.
J Baynes
working its course on the news. You are well on your way to making everyone
see the lies and evils of organized medicine and dentistry. You will
prevail!
"Rich" <.@,> wrote in message
news:2497qugd3ne67bbqj...@4ax.com...
Steven Fawks
I haven't used amalgam for 17 years, yet I know it is not for 'medical'
reasons.
Get a life.
Fawks