Clinton nearly died from Atkins-style South Beach Diet
Dr. Jai Maharaj
Forwarded message from fi...@yahoo.com
[ Subject: Did Bill Clinton nearly die from Atkins-Style South Beach Diet?
[ From: fi...@yahoo.com
[ Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004
Clinton in good spirits as he prepares for open heart
surgery this week
By David Usborne in New York
05 September 2004
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=558361
Former president Bill Clinton is telling friends he is in
good spirits despite facing the challenge of a multiple
bypass operation for blocked blood vessels to the heart.
The procedure is likely to be undertaken at the beginning
of this week, perhaps as early as tomorrow.
Speaking to CNN's Larry King show on Friday evening from
his bed at the Columbia Presbyterian hospital in
Manhattan, Mr Clinton, who turned 58 last month and had
no previous history of heart trouble, joked: "Let me just
say this - Republicans aren't the only people who want
four more years here."
Asked if he was nervous to undergo open heart surgery, Mr
Clinton replied that he was "a little scared, but not
much. I'm looking forward to it. I want to get back. I
want to see what it's like to run five miles again".
The former president's illness appeared to come out of
the blue. Friends said he began to experience mild chest
pains and shortness of breath in the middle of last week.
He underwent initial tests at a hospital near the home he
shares with his wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, in
Westchester County, New York, on Thursday morning and was
sent home.
However, he returned to the hospital on Friday morning
and X-rays showed he had significant blockages of the
bloodflow to his heart. He was then taken to the
Presbyterian hospital on the Upper West Side of
Manhattan, world-renowned for its heart surgery team.
Sources close to Mr Clinton said he is likely to undergo
either triple or quadruple bypass surgery where pieces of
blood vessel are cut from elsewhere in the body and used
to detour around the diseased arteries. If all goes well,
he will stay in hospital for several days.
The setback is almost certain, however, to prohibit the
former president from fulfilling a pledge to the
Democratic presidential candidate, John Kerry, to speak
for him in the last 60-day stretch of the American
election campaign. In recent weeks, he had been
increasingly involving himself in the battle against
President Bush.
But medical experts said that Mr Clinton could look
forward to getting back to normal in the longer term.
They pointed to Vice-President Dick Cheney, who suffered
heart attacks in 1978, 1984, 1988 and 2000. Mr Cheney
underwent bypass surgery in 1988.
The good news for Mr Clinton is that the chest pains gave
him an early warning before he suffered any kind of heart
attack. The angiogram X-ray tests on Friday revealed
"multi-vessel coronary artery disease, normal heart
function and no heart attack," said Dr Anthony Pucillo,
who performed them.
That Mr Clinton was facing heart surgery came as a shock
to friends and neighbours in Westchester who noted that
he had lost a considerable amount of weight in recent
months, in part by committing himself to the rigours of
the low-carb South Beach diet.
As President, he enjoyed mostly good health, marred only
by slight hearing loss and a cancerous lesion on his
nose. He was famous, however, for enjoying fast and fatty
foods, regularly tucking into cheeseburgers and fries.
End of forwarded message from fi...@yahoo.com
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
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ta
> Clinton nearly died from Atkins-style South Beach Diet
<snip>
Post hoc fallacy. Notice below that nowhere does it say the south beach diet
*caused* his heart attack. His heart attack likely has more to do with his
habitual eating of cheeseburger and fries, some genetic predisposition,
stress, or a combination of these factors. The south beach diet may just
have been the cherry on the cake, although even then, there is no evidence
to arrive at that conclusion based on the article you posted.
> That Mr Clinton was facing heart surgery came as a shock
> to friends and neighbours in Westchester who noted that
> he had lost a considerable amount of weight in recent
> months, in part by committing himself to the rigours of
> the low-carb South Beach diet.
>
> As President, he enjoyed mostly good health, marred only
> by slight hearing loss and a cancerous lesion on his
> nose. He was famous, however, for enjoying fast and fatty
> foods, regularly tucking into cheeseburgers and fries.
<snip>
Blaise DesCartes
| Clinton nearly died from Atkins-style South Beach Diet
|
You normally seem to be a person of reason and thought.
Don't you realize that you completely discredit yourself and ruin any
credibility you might have otherwise had when you make such prposely biased,
completely false statements?
Now we are forced to pass off any statements and comments as not worth
dwelling on, since we now know that you lie and exagerate.
harmony
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <use...@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:Tml3x64FVVY9@Mr062v8CtaOnCF...
mar...@1toad-net.com
His condition is caused over a long time period. He has been eating fast
foods all of his life. This is another lie by subject line propagated by
jay stevens,aka dr. jai etc., for his own agenda. Ignore him as is normal
in any thinking person.
Hawki63
>From: mar...@1toad-net.com
>Date: 9/7/2004 9:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <413de702$0$246$4d5e...@reader.city-net.com>
actually I saw a clip where Clinton himself stated he had been on South Beach
Diet..
tho I agree that CAD takes a long time to develop....gotta stop those Big
Macs!!
hawki.....
Dr. Jai Maharaj
"harmony" <a...@hotmail.com> posted:
> would stem cell cure such a problem?
A lifestyle change most likely would:
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
> Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj
Forwarded message from fi...@yahoo.com
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=558361
In article <2q5tccF...@uni-berlin.de>,
"Blaise DesCartes" <desc...@yahoo.com> posted:
Steve Harris sbharris@ROMAN9.netcom.com
> Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> | Clinton nearly died from Atkins-style South Beach Diet
> |
>
> You normally seem to be a person of reason and thought.
COMMENT:
If you think "Dr. Jai Maharaj" is normally a person of reason and
thought, you yourself need a reality check. If you're just now
discovering that he's crazy, all the rest of us have to say is: "Good
job, Einstein. And now, how long did this take you?"
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Coronary atherosclerosis can be accelerated in laboratory animals so that normal
arteries can become severely diseased in 6-8 months.
Low-carbing is ill-advised for anyone at high risk for coronary disease as
previously discussed here in SMC (keywords: hyperketonemia, Dr. Barry Sears,
lipid peroxidation).
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/
**
Who is the humblest person in the universe?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048
What is all this about?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?R20632B48
Is this spam?
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N69721867
rick etter
> Read again to learn who wrote the article (hint: look for the word "By"):
Ignorant fool. The writer of the article did not write the title for your
ignorant post.
That lie was all yours jay-bird....
snippage....
Mirek Fidler
disease as
> previously discussed here in SMC (keywords: hyperketonemia, Dr. Barry
Sears,
> lipid peroxidation).
SB diet is as low-carb as The Zone. So hyperketonemia / lipis
peroxidation is unlikely to be the problem here.
BTW, try keywords: LDL particle size, fat, low-carb, lipid peroxidation
etc... to get completely different picture.
Mirek
Matti Narkia
<413E13E0...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
>Low-carbing is ill-advised for anyone at high risk for coronary disease as
>previously discussed here in SMC (keywords: hyperketonemia, Dr. Barry Sears,
>lipid peroxidation).
>
Fukao T, Lopaschuk GD, Mitchell GA.
Pathways and control of ketone body metabolism: on the fringe of lipid
biochemistry.
Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2004 Mar;70(3):243-51.
PMID: 14769483 [PubMed - in process]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14769483>:
"... Hyperketonemia is associated with potential health benefits. ..."
--
Matti Narkia
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
You remain in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
--
Matti Narkia
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Matti Narkia
<413F5E36...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>Matti Narkia wrote:
>
>> Tue, 07 Sep 2004 16:02:40 -0400 in article
>> <413E13E0...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
>> <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >Low-carbing is ill-advised for anyone at high risk for coronary disease as
>> >previously discussed here in SMC (keywords: hyperketonemia, Dr. Barry Sears,
>> >lipid peroxidation).
>> >
>> From
>>
>> Fukao T, Lopaschuk GD, Mitchell GA.
>> Pathways and control of ketone body metabolism: on the fringe of lipid
>> biochemistry.
>> Prostaglandins Leukot Essent Fatty Acids. 2004 Mar;70(3):243-51.
>> PMID: 14769483 [PubMed - in process]
>> <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14769483>:
>>
>> "... Hyperketonemia is associated with potential health benefits. ..."
>>
>
>If that quote were true, you would find folks selling concoctions containing acetone for these potential health
>benefits.
1: VanItallie TB, Nufert TH.
Ketones: metabolism's ugly duckling.
Nutr Rev. 2003 Oct;61(10):327-41. Review.
PMID: 14604265 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14604265>
"... In the 1920s, a drastic "hyperketogenic" diet was found
remarkably effective for treatment of drug-resistant epilepsy
in children. In 1967, circulating ketones were discovered to
replace glucose as the brain's major fuel during the marked
hyperketonemia of prolonged fasting. Until then, the adult
human brain was thought to be entirely dependent upon glucose.
During the 1990s, diet-induced hyperketonemia was found
therapeutically effective for treatment of several rare genetic
disorders involving impaired neuronal utilization of glucose or
its metabolic products. Finally, growing evidence suggests that
mitochondrial dysfunction and reduced bioenergetic efficiency
occur in brains of patients with Parkinson's disease (PD) and
Alzheimer's disease (AD). Because ketones are efficiently used
by mitochondria for ATP generation and may also help protect
vulnerable neurons from free radical damage, hyperketogenic
diets should be evaluated for ability to benefit patients with
PD, AD, and certain other neurodegenerative disorders."
2: Hasselbalch SG, Madsen PL, Hageman LP, Olsen KS, Justesen N, Holm S,
Paulson OB.
Changes in cerebral blood flow and carbohydrate metabolism during acute
hyperketonemia.
Am J Physiol. 1996 May;270(5 Pt 1):E746-51.
PMID: 8967461 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8967461>
"During starvation, brain energy metabolism in humans changes
toward oxidation of ketone bodies. To investigate if this shift
is directly coupled to circulating blood concentrations of
ketone bodies, we measured global cerebral blood flow (CBF) and
global cerebral carbohydrate metabolism with the Kety-Schmidt
technique before and during intravenous infusion with ketone
bodies. During acute hyperketonemia (mean beta-hydroxybutyrate
blood concentration 2.16 mM), cerebral uptake of ketones
increased from 1.11 to 5.60 mumol.100 g-1.min-1,
counterbalanced by an equivalent reduction of the cerebral
glucose metabolism from 25.8 to 17.2 mumol.100 g-1.min-1, with
the net result being an unchanged cerebral uptake of
carbohydrates. In accordance with this, global cerebral oxygen
metabolism was not significantly altered (144 vs. 135 mumol.100
g-1.min-1). The unchanged global cerebral metabolic activity
was accompanied by a 39% increase in CBF from 51.0 to 70.9
ml.100 g-1.min-1. ..."
3: Marie C, Bralet AM, Bralet J.
Protective action of 1,3-butanediol in cerebral ischemia. A neurologic,
histologic, and metabolic study.
J Cereb Blood Flow Metab. 1987 Dec;7(6):794-800.
PMID: 3693436 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=3693436>
"1,3-Butanediol (BD) is converted in the body to beta-
hydroxybutyrate, and previous studies have shown that
hyperketonemia had beneficial effects in experimental models of
generalized hypoxia. The aim of this study was to determine if
BD would reduce brain damage following cerebral ischemia. A
transient forebrain ischemia of 30-min duration was induced by
the four-vessel occlusion technique in control and BD-treated
rats (25 mmol/kg, i.p.; 30 min prior to ischemia). BD treatment
led to significant improvement of neurologic deficit during the
72-h recovery period and reduced neuronal damage in the
striatum and cortex but not in the CA1 sector of the
hippocampus. Evaluation of cerebral energy metabolism before
and at the end of the ischemic period showed that the treatment
did not change the preischemic glycolytic and energy metabolite
levels but attenuated the ischemia-induced metabolic
alterations. It increased energy charge, phosphocreatine, and
glucose levels, and reduced lactate accumulation. The decrease
in brain lactate concentration might account for the beneficial
effects of BD by minimizing the neuropathological consequences
of lactic acidosis."
--
Matti Narkia
Mirek Fidler
containing acetone for these potential health benefits.
Come on, I thought you know biochemistry better than that... At least,
you SHOULD know it better.
Mirek
Matti Narkia
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
>Low-carbing is ill-advised for anyone at high risk for coronary disease as
>previously discussed here in SMC (keywords: hyperketonemia, Dr. Barry Sears,
>lipid peroxidation).
>
Effects of a low carbohydrate diet and graded exercise during the follicular
and luteal phases on the blood antioxidant status in healthy women.
Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Aug;87(4-5):373-80. Epub 2002 Jun 28.
PMID: 12172876 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12172876>
"... The 3 days of the L-CHO diet, which had been preceded by
glycogen-depleting exercise, resulted in a stimulation of the
blood antioxidant defence system in young eumenorrhoeic women
both at rest and during the graded cycling exercise to maximal
oxygen uptake. It seems justified to presume that higher daily
doses of haem iron, selenium and alpha-tocopherol provided by
the L-CHO diet contributed to the enhancement of catalase
activity, the rise in plasma concentrations of alpha-tocopherol
and selenium, which resulted in better protection of the cell
membranes against damage from peroxides, as reflected by a
limited release of creatine kinase into plasma. With the
exception of the case of glutathione reductase, the phases of
the menstrual cycle had only minor effects on the indices of
the blood antioxidant defence system."
--
Matti Narkia
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> Tue, 07 Sep 2004 16:02:40 -0400 in article
> <413E13E0...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
> >
> >Low-carbing is ill-advised for anyone at high risk for coronary disease as
> >previously discussed here in SMC (keywords: hyperketonemia, Dr. Barry Sears,
> >lipid peroxidation).
> >
> Klapcinska B, Sadowska-Krepa E, Manowska B, Pilis W, Sobczak A, Danch A.
> Effects of a low carbohydrate diet and graded exercise during the follicular
> and luteal phases on the blood antioxidant status in healthy women.
> Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Aug;87(4-5):373-80. Epub 2002 Jun 28.
> PMID: 12172876 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12172876>
>
> "... The 3 days of the L-CHO diet, which had been preceded by
> glycogen-depleting exercise, resulted in a stimulation of the
> blood antioxidant defence system in young eumenorrhoeic women
> both at rest and during the graded cycling exercise to maximal
> oxygen uptake. It seems justified to presume that higher daily
> doses of haem iron, selenium and alpha-tocopherol provided by
> the L-CHO diet contributed to the enhancement of catalase
> activity, the rise in plasma concentrations of alpha-tocopherol
> and selenium, which resulted in better protection of the cell
> membranes against damage from peroxides, as reflected by a
> limited release of creatine kinase into plasma.
The latter would suggest that the low-carb diet is causing increased lipid peroxidation and that the increases
seen in the "blood antioxidant defence system" is a compensatory response to the increased rate of oxidative
damage occurring in these young women.
> With the
> exception of the case of glutathione reductase, the phases of
> the menstrual cycle had only minor effects on the indices of
> the blood antioxidant defence system."
>
> --
> Matti Narkia
Thanks for this additional reference which supports the validity of concerns that most physicians (including
Dr. Steven Harris) have about low-carb diets.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
> >If that quote were true, you would find folks selling concoctions
> containing acetone for these potential health benefits.
>
> Come on, I thought you know biochemistry better than that...
Acetone is one of the main ketones present when there is hyperketonemia
(it gives folks that characteristic "fruity" breath).
Yes, it is also used to make fingernail polish remover.
> At least,
> you SHOULD know it better.
Nothing is better than the truth.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Comment: Nothing here about coronary disease and/or lipid peroxidation.
>
> 2: Hasselbalch SG, Madsen PL, Hageman LP, Olsen KS, Justesen N, Holm S,
> Paulson OB.
> Changes in cerebral blood flow and carbohydrate metabolism during acute
> hyperketonemia.
> Am J Physiol. 1996 May;270(5 Pt 1):E746-51.
> PMID: 8967461 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8967461>
>
> "During starvation, brain energy metabolism in humans changes
> toward oxidation of ketone bodies. To investigate if this shift
> is directly coupled to circulating blood concentrations of
> ketone bodies, we measured global cerebral blood flow (CBF) and
> global cerebral carbohydrate metabolism with the Kety-Schmidt
> technique before and during intravenous infusion with ketone
> bodies. During acute hyperketonemia (mean beta-hydroxybutyrate
> blood concentration 2.16 mM), cerebral uptake of ketones
> increased from 1.11 to 5.60 mumol.100 g-1.min-1,
> counterbalanced by an equivalent reduction of the cerebral
> glucose metabolism from 25.8 to 17.2 mumol.100 g-1.min-1, with
> the net result being an unchanged cerebral uptake of
> carbohydrates. In accordance with this, global cerebral oxygen
> metabolism was not significantly altered (144 vs. 135 mumol.100
> g-1.min-1). The unchanged global cerebral metabolic activity
> was accompanied by a 39% increase in CBF from 51.0 to 70.9
> ml.100 g-1.min-1. ..."
>
Comment: Ditto.
Comment: Ditto.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Bob (this one)
> Comment: Nothing here about coronary disease and/or lipid peroxidation.
> Comment: Ditto.
> Comment: Ditto.
<LOL> Look at what Chung finds to criticize someone about...
Bob
Matti Narkia
<413F8412...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>Mirek Fidler wrote:
>
>> >If that quote were true, you would find folks selling concoctions
>> containing acetone for these potential health benefits.
>>
>> Come on, I thought you know biochemistry better than that...
>
>Acetone is one of the main ketones present when there is hyperketonemia
>(it gives folks that characteristic "fruity" breath).
>
Acetone has not been observed to cause lipid peroxidation even in diabetic
subjects. And as the study
Klapcinska B, Sadowska-Krepa E, Manowska B, Pilis W, Sobczak A, Danch A.
Effects of a low carbohydrate diet and graded exercise during the follicular
and luteal phases on the blood antioxidant status in healthy women.
Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Aug;87(4-5):373-80. Epub 2002 Jun 28.
PMID: 12172876 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12172876>
shows, low carbohydrate diet with exercise results in a stimulation of the
blood antioxidant defence system, presumably because of the enhancement of
catalase activity and the rise in plasma concentrations of alpha-tocopherol
and selenium caused by higher daily doses these and other nutrients in the
low-carb diet. This results in _better protection_ of the cell membranes
against damage from peroxides. In addition to that people on low
carbohydrate diets are advised to take nutritional supplements (as everyone
should) including vitamin E, which has been shown to block increase in lipid
peroxidation in _acetoacetate_-treated RBCs of _diabetic_ subjects.
--
Matti Narkia
Cheri
drugs to lower his blood pressure and cholesterol. He attributed his
recent weight loss to the low-carb, high-protein South Beach diet, but
the experts say it probably did not contribute to his heart disease.
We know from autopsy studies that the buildup that causes heart attacks
can start as early as the late teens and 20s," Gardner says. "By the
time President Clinton lost the 20 pounds earlier this year, his
coronary artery blockages were already well established."
"While the plaque buildup that triggers heart attacks can take decades,
National Heart Lung and Blood Institute cardiologist George Sopko tells
WebMD that arterial blockage can progress from moderate to severe over a
short period of time.
"When you get to 80% or 90% blockage, that is when something small like
minimal exercise or psychological stress can trigger an imbalance
between blood demand and supply," he says. "That is the critical point
where many people begin to have symptoms."
No More Cheeseburgers
The experts agreed that Clinton and most patients who have had heart
surgery can live long and healthy lives as long as they follow their
doctors' advice. Clinton will undoubtedly be told to avoid high-fat junk
food and to resume his regular exercise program when he is able. He will
also be advised to take medications for his heart, which may include
low-dose aspirin, a cholesterol-lowering statin, a beta-blocker, and an
ACE inhibitor.
--
Cheri
Type 2, no meds for now.
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD wrote in message
Matti Narkia
<413F8404...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Sorry, but no:
Cheng T, Zhu Z, Masuda S, Morcos NC.
Effects of multinutrient supplementation on antioxidant defense systems in
healthy human beings.
J Nutr Biochem. 2001 Jul;12(7):388-395.
PMID: 11448614 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11448614&dopt=Abstract>
"Oxidative damage involved in the pathogenesis of many diseases,
such as cardiovascular disease, cancer and diabetics. The
antioxidant defense system plays an important role in protecting
body from oxidative damage. Numerous studies have been shown
that a single vitamin or mineral supplementation has the
beneficial effect on the antioxidant defense system. However,
the overall combined effect of multinutrient supplementation on
antioxidant defense system remains to be clarified. In the
present double blind, placebo-controlled study, the
antioxidative defense system was measured in 34 healthy subjects
before and after multinutrient supplementation. Plasma vitamin
C, E and beta-carotene, erythrocyte vitamin E, as well as whole
blood selenium all showed increase at 5 weeks of
supplementation. The activities of catalase (CAT) and
glutathione peroxidase (GPX), but not superoxide dismutase
(SOD), as well as GSH level were significantly increased at 16
weeks of supplementation. Moreover, the resistance of
erythrocytes to 2,2'-Azobis(2-amidinopropane) dihydrochloride
(AAPH)-induced oxidation was elevated at 5 weeks after
supplementation. These results clearly demonstrated that short-
term supplementation (16 weeks) with multinutrient could
markedly improve antioxidative vitamin status and enzymatic
activities. These improvements also led to the reduction of RBC
susceptibility to free radial peroxidation."
--
Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia
<i33vj0luqqdkl72dt...@4ax.com> Matti Narkia
<mnng1_RE...@despammed.com> wrote:
Another study shows that exercise also stimulates antioxidant defense system
and protects against lipid peroxidation:
Karolkiewicz J, Szczesniak L, Deskur-Smielecka E, Nowak A, Stemplewski R,
Szeklicki R.
Oxidative stress and antioxidant defense system in healthy, elderly men:
relationship to physical activity.
Aging Male. 2003 Jun;6(2):100-5.
PMID: 12898794 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12898794>
"The aim of the present study was to compare selected markers
of oxidative stress and the antioxidant system between groups
of men aged 65 or more, differentiated by their level of
physical activity. Thirty-one community-dwelling healthy,
elderly men (mean age 73.4 +/- 6.1 years) with a good
nutritional status participated in the study. The Caltrac
accelerometer was used to estimate energy expenditure related
to physical activity. Subjects were divided into two groups
according to the criteria proposed by Bauman: less active (<
1600 kcal/week) and more active (> 1600 kcal/week). In all the
men, plasma total antioxidant status (TAS), thiobarbituric acid
reactive substances (TBARS) concentrations and hydrogen
peroxide (H2O2) levels were determined. The reduced glutathione
(GSH) content and glutathione peroxidase (GPx) activity in
hemolyzed red blood cells were also measured. There were no
significant differences in TAS, H2O2 concentrations and the
activity of GPx between less and more active men. In the group
of more active subjects, plasma levels of GSH were higher,
while TBARS concentrations were lower compared with the group
of less active men (p < 0.05). Negative correlation between GSH
and TBARS levels was observed (r = -0.71; p < 0.01), and GSH
concentrations positively correlated with level of physical
activity (r = 0.63; p < 0.05). The results indicate that
habitual physical activity can favorably affect antioxidant
potential and prevent lipid peroxidation in healthy, elderly
men."
--
Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
If there is an imbalance (such as excessive lipid peroxidation) between
oxidant and antioxidant protection, the antioxidant defense capacity and its
markers such as antioxidant enzyme activity (glutathione peroxidase,
superoxide dismutase) and plasma non-enzymatic status (vitamin C,
alpha-tocopherol, retinol, ß-carotene and carotenoid concentrations) go
_down_, not up. If blood antioxidant defense system is _stimulated_ and
markers of its capacity such as alpha-tocopherol and selenium levels go up,
the antioxidant protection is _increased_ , and therefore lipid peroxidation
is _decreased_, not increased. See the references provided in earlier
messages.
--
Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks for this additional reference which supports the validity of concerns that most physicians (including
>Dr. Steven Harris) have about low-carb diets.
>
<URL:http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/community/DailyNews/chat_willett020109.html>
Harvard's _professor_ of nutrition, Dr. Walter C. Willett says:
"We clearly have seen that many individuals do benefit by lower
consumption of carbs, so I suspect there really is value in greatly
reducing them."
--
Matti Narkia
MaryL
"Cheri" <gser...@inreachnogarbage.com> wrote in message
news:NJGdnRQJRfN...@inreach.com...
In my opinion, the title of this thread is misleading. I doubt seriously if
Clinton's recent change to South Beach contributed to his health problems
(although I admit that I am also basically following SB -- which is really
quite different from Atkins, with SB's emphasis on "good carbs" and low-fat
meats, and I have additionally virtually eliminated bread, pasta, rice, and
white potatoes). Ironically, the article you quoted also says that SB
probably did not contribute to Clinton's heart disease, so it is only the
title that I disagree with. Note this quotation that you quoted within this
article: "By the time President Clinton lost the 20 pounds earlier this
year, his coronary artery blockages were already well established."
MaryL
Matti Narkia
<413F841B...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
Oh, you should have told that you only accept cardiovascular health
benefits. Well, let's give an example of those then:
Sharman MJ, Kraemer WJ, Love DM, Avery NG, Gomez AL, Scheett TP, Volek JS.
A ketogenic diet favorably affects serum biomarkers for cardiovascular
disease in normal-weight men.
J Nutr. 2002 Jul;132(7):1879-85.
PMID: 12097663 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/7/1879>
"... There were significant decreases in fasting serum TAG
(-33%), postprandial lipemia after a fat-rich meal (-29%), and
fasting serum insulin concentrations (-34%) after men consumed
the ketogenic diet. Fasting serum total and LDL cholesterol and
oxidized LDL were unaffected and HDL cholesterol tended to
increase with the ketogenic diet (+11.5%; P = 0.066). In
subjects with a predominance of small LDL particles pattern B,
there were significant increases in mean and peak LDL particle
diameter and the percentage of LDL-1 after the ketogenic diet.
There were no significant changes in blood lipids in the
control group. To our knowledge this is the first study to
document the effects of a ketogenic diet on fasting and
postprandial CVD biomarkers independent of weight loss. The
results suggest that a short-term ketogenic diet does not have
a deleterious effect on CVD risk profile and may improve the
lipid disorders characteristic of atherogenic dyslipidemia."
--
Matti Narkia
Hawki63
>Date: 9/8/2004 5:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <10jv7m8...@corp.supernews.com>
>In my opinion, the title of this thread is misleading. I doubt seriously if
>Clinton's recent change to South Beach contributed to his health problems
>(although I admit that I am also basically following SB -- which is
it is also not that important WHAT Clinton's family history was...
at 58 he had enuf time to do damage to his health..
plus being 58,,male,,high stressed..etc..
amazes me how easy it is for folks to parrot "family history" whilst not
realizing that THEY are the most important family member to consider!!!
easier to blame it on genes I guess
hawki.....
Matti Narkia
<918vj0degpkm746kd...@4ax.com> Matti Narkia
<mnng1_RE...@despammed.com> wrote:
Here more examples:
Stern L, Iqbal N, Seshadri P, Chicano KL, Daily DA, McGrory J, Williams M,
Gracely EJ, Samaha FF.
The effects of low-carbohydrate versus conventional weight loss diets in
severely obese adults: one-year follow-up of a randomized trial.
Ann Intern Med. 2004 May 18;140(10):778-85.
PMID: 15148064 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/10/778>
"CONCLUSION: Participants on a low-carbohydrate diet had more favorable
overall outcomes at 1 year than did those on a conventional diet. Weight
loss was similar between groups, but effects on atherogenic dyslipidemia
and glycemic control were still more favorable with a low-carbohydrate
diet after adjustment for differences in weight loss."
Yancy WS Jr, Olsen MK, Guyton JR, Bakst RP, Westman EC.
A low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-fat diet to treat obesity
and hyperlipidemia: a randomized, controlled trial.
Ann Intern Med. 2004 May 18;140(10):769-77.
PMID: 15148063 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
<URL:http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/10/769>
"CONCLUSIONS: Compared with a low-fat diet, a low-carbohydrate diet
program had better participant retention and greater weight loss. During
active weight loss, serum triglyceride levels decreased more and
high-density lipoprotein cholesterol level increased more with the
low-carbohydrate diet than with the low-fat diet."
--
Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia
<and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
>Thanks for this additional reference which supports the validity of concerns that most physicians (including
>Dr. Steven Harris) have about low-carb diets.
>
than some other isocaloric diets, see the following article:
Feinman RD, Fine EJ.
"A calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of thermodynamics.
Nutr J. 2004 Jul 28;3(1):9.
PMID: 15282028 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
<URL:http://www.nutritionj.com/content/3/1/9>
"The principle of "a calorie is a calorie," that weight change
in hypocaloric diets is independent of macronutrient
composition, is widely held in the popular and technical
literature, and is frequently justified by appeal to the laws
of thermodynamics. We review here some aspects of
thermodynamics that bear on weight loss and the effect of
macronutrient composition. The focus is the so-called metabolic
advantage in low-carbohydrate diets – greater weight loss
compared to isocaloric diets of different composition. Two laws
of thermodynamics are relevant to the systems considered in
nutrition and, whereas the first law is a conservation (of
energy) law, the second is a dissipation law: something
(negative entropy) is lost and therefore balance is not to be
expected in diet interventions. Here, we propose that a
misunderstanding of the second law accounts for the controversy
about the role of macronutrient effect on weight loss and we
review some aspects of elementary thermodynamics. We use data
in the literature to show that thermogenesis is sufficient to
predict metabolic advantage. Whereas homeostasis ensures
balance under many conditions, as a general principle, "a
calorie is a calorie" violates the second law of
thermodynamics.
[...]
A review of simple thermodynamic principles shows that weight
change on isocaloric diets is not expected to be independent of
path (metabolism of macronutrients) and indeed such a general
principle would be a violation of the second law. Homeostatic
mechanisms are able to insure that, a good deal of the time,
weight does not fluctuate much with changes in diet – this might
be said to be the true "miraculous metabolic effect" – but it is
subject to many exceptions. The idea that this is theoretically
required in all cases is mistakenly based on equilibrium,
reversible conditions that do not hold for living organisms and
an insufficient appreciation of the second law. The second law
of thermodynamics says that variation of efficiency for
different metabolic pathways is to be expected. Thus, ironically
the dictum that a "calorie is a calorie" violates the second law
of thermodynamics, as a matter of principle.
The analysis above might be said to be over-kill although it is
important, intellectually, not to invoke the laws of
thermodynamics inappropriately. There are also, however,
practical consequences. The seriousness of the obesity epidemic
suggests that we attack it with all the means at our disposal.
Metabolic advantage with low carbohydrate diets is well
established in the literature. It does not always occur but the
important point is that it can occur. To ignore its
possibilities and to not investigate the precise conditions
under which it appears would be cutting ourselves off from
potential benefit. The extent to which metabolic advantage will
have significant impact in treating obesity is unknown and it is
widely said in studies of low carbohydrate diets that "more work
needs to be done." However, if the misconception is perpetuated
that there is a violation of physical laws, that work will not
be done, and if done, will go unpublished due to editorial
resistance. Attacking the obesity epidemic will involve giving
up many old ideas that have not been productive. "A calorie is a
calorie" might be a good place to start."
--
Matti Narkia
Matti Narkia
<3jcvj05fm3ct502do...@4ax.com> Matti Narkia
<mnng1_RE...@despammed.com> wrote:
Comments in
Time to Take Low-Carb Diets Seriously?
Journal Watch Cardiology, July 9, 2004; 2004(709): 1 -
<URL:http://www.annals.org/cgi/content/full/140/10/778>
"... Comment: Results from these studies should mitigate
concerns about adverse lipid effects of low-carbohydrate diets,
and even suggest some benefit. Some caveats are that dropout
rates were high (particularly among low-fat dieters in the
shorter study), dietary adherence was suboptimal, and (in the
longer study) 6-month weight-loss advantages in the low-carb
group eventually were reduced. Nevertheless, one can no longer
dismiss low-carbohydrate dieting as fad. An editorialist
recommends encouraging overweight patients to engage in regular
physical activity and to experiment with various diets,
including low-carb, with an emphasis on healthy sources of fat
and protein.
— Joel M. Gore, MD"
--
Matti Narkia
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Not in a living organism where gene expression can be tremendously
upregulated in response to oxidant injury (ie lipid peroxidation).
> If blood antioxidant defense system is _stimulated_ and
> markers of its capacity such as alpha-tocopherol and selenium levels go up,
> the antioxidant protection is _increased_ , and therefore lipid peroxidation
> is _decreased_, not increased.
Your cite described elevated plasma creatine kinase levels which
indicate that the damage has already been done and continue to be done
suggesting that though antioxidant protection may be compensatorily
increased, it may still not be adequate to fully address the increased
rates of lipid peroxidation arising from the hyperketonemia. This is
typically the rule rather than the exception for most biological control
systems. Indeed, this is also consistent with modern process control
systems in engineering.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
>
> Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:13:38 -0400 in article
> <413F8412...@heartmdphd.com> "Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
> <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote:
>
> >Mirek Fidler wrote:
> >
> >> >If that quote were true, you would find folks selling concoctions
> >> containing acetone for these potential health benefits.
> >>
> >> Come on, I thought you know biochemistry better than that...
> >
> >Acetone is one of the main ketones present when there is hyperketonemia
> >(it gives folks that characteristic "fruity" breath).
> >
> Acetone has not been observed to cause lipid peroxidation even in diabetic
> subjects. And as the study
>
> Klapcinska B, Sadowska-Krepa E, Manowska B, Pilis W, Sobczak A, Danch A.
> Effects of a low carbohydrate diet and graded exercise during the follicular
> and luteal phases on the blood antioxidant status in healthy women.
> Eur J Appl Physiol. 2002 Aug;87(4-5):373-80. Epub 2002 Jun 28.
> PMID: 12172876 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12172876>
>
> shows, low carbohydrate diet with exercise results in a stimulation of the
> blood antioxidant defence system, presumably because of the enhancement of
> catalase activity and the rise in plasma concentrations of alpha-tocopherol
> and selenium caused by higher daily doses these and other nutrients in the
> low-carb diet.
Your cite described elevated plasma creatine kinase levels which
indicate that the damage has already been done and continue to be done
suggesting that though antioxidant protection may be compensatorily
increased, it may still not be adequate to fully address the increased
rates of lipid peroxidation arising from the hyperketonemia. This is
typically the rule rather than the exception for most biological control
systems. Indeed, this is also consistent with modern process control
systems in engineering.
> This results in _better protection_ of the cell membranes
> against damage from peroxides. In addition to that people on low
> carbohydrate diets are advised to take nutritional supplements (as everyone
> should) including vitamin E, which has been shown to block increase in lipid
> peroxidation in _acetoacetate_-treated RBCs of _diabetic_ subjects.
Yes, many folks are making independent confirmatiory observations about
hyperketonemia causing increased lipid peroxidation.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Sorry. Yes. Reading ahead, your cite is equivocal about observing an
increase in the "blood anti-oxidant defence system" with vitamin
supplementation. Moreover, vitamin E supplementation may be on the side
of doing something that is pro-oxidant.
> Cheng T, Zhu Z, Masuda S, Morcos NC.
> Effects of multinutrient supplementation on antioxidant defense systems in
> healthy human beings.
> J Nutr Biochem. 2001 Jul;12(7):388-395.
> PMID: 11448614 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
> <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11448614&dopt=Abstract>
>
> "Oxidative damage involved in the pathogenesis of many diseases,
> such as cardiovascular disease, cancer and diabetics. The
> antioxidant defense system plays an important role in protecting
> body from oxidative damage. Numerous studies have been shown
> that a single vitamin or mineral supplementation has the
> beneficial effect on the antioxidant defense system. However,
> the overall combined effect of multinutrient supplementation on
> antioxidant defense system remains to be clarified. In the
> present double blind, placebo-controlled study, the
> antioxidative defense system was measured in 34 healthy subjects
> before and after multinutrient supplementation. Plasma vitamin
> C, E and beta-carotene, erythrocyte vitamin E, as well as whole
> blood selenium all showed increase at 5 weeks of
> supplementation.
No surprise.
> The activities of catalase (CAT) and
> glutathione peroxidase (GPX), but not superoxide dismutase
> (SOD), as well as GSH level were significantly increased at 16
> weeks of supplementation.
SOD and GSH are the key players in the scavenging of oxygen free
radicals.
> Moreover, the resistance of
> erythrocytes to 2,2'-Azobis(2-amidinopropane) dihydrochloride
> (AAPH)-induced oxidation was elevated at 5 weeks after
> supplementation. These results clearly demonstrated that short-
> term supplementation (16 weeks) with multinutrient could
> markedly improve antioxidative vitamin status and enzymatic
> activities. These improvements also led to the reduction of RBC
> susceptibility to free radial peroxidation."
Your cite does not address the elevated plasma levels of creatine kinase
that occurs with hyperketonemia.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Sorry. Yes. Reading ahead, your cite does not address the observed
release of creatine kinase into the plasma which suggests cellular
damage from the lipid peroxidation caused by the hyperketonemia.
Exercise, interestingly enough, initially (before conditioning) also
causes oxidative damage that is experimentally measurable. It is this
oxidative damage that stimulates the upregulation of the "antioxidant
defense system."
> Karolkiewicz J, Szczesniak L, Deskur-Smielecka E, Nowak A, Stemplewski R,
> Szeklicki R.
> Oxidative stress and antioxidant defense system in healthy, elderly men:
> relationship to physical activity.
> Aging Male. 2003 Jun;6(2):100-5.
> PMID: 12898794 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <URL:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12898794>
>
> "The aim of the present study was to compare selected markers
> of oxidative stress and the antioxidant system between groups
> of men aged 65 or more, differentiated by their level of
> physical activity. Thirty-one community-dwelling healthy,
> elderly men (mean age 73.4 +/- 6.1 years) with a good
> nutritional status participated in the study. The Caltrac
> accelerometer was used to estimate energy expenditure related
> to physical activity. Subjects were divided into two groups
> according to the criteria proposed by Bauman: less active (<
> 1600 kcal/week) and more active (> 1600 kcal/week). In all the
> men, plasma total antioxidant status (TAS), thiobarbituric acid
> reactive substances (TBARS) concentrations and hydrogen
> peroxide (H2O2) levels were determined. The reduced glutathione
> (GSH) content and glutathione peroxidase (GPx) activity in
> hemolyzed red blood cells were also measured. There were no
> significant differences in TAS, H2O2 concentrations and the
> activity of GPx between less and more active men.
So your cited study actually fails to show an upregulation in the
"antioxidant defense system" in active versus inactive people.
> In the group
> of more active subjects, plasma levels of GSH were higher,
> while TBARS concentrations were lower compared with the group
> of less active men (p < 0.05). Negative correlation between GSH
> and TBARS levels was observed (r = -0.71; p < 0.01), and GSH
> concentrations positively correlated with level of physical
> activity (r = 0.63; p < 0.05). The results indicate that
> habitual physical activity can favorably affect antioxidant
> potential and prevent lipid peroxidation in healthy, elderly
> men."
An alternative explanation is that those who are physically active may
have lower rates of oxidative stress thereby permitting them to
exercise.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
The discussion is about hyperketonemia and its potential relationship
with coronary disease and/or lipid peroxidation.
> Well, let's give an example of those then:
>
> Sharman MJ, Kraemer WJ, Love DM, Avery NG, Gomez AL, Scheett TP, Volek JS.
> A ketogenic diet favorably affects serum biomarkers for cardiovascular
> disease in normal-weight men.
> J Nutr. 2002 Jul;132(7):1879-85.
> PMID: 12097663 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
> <URL:http://www.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/7/1879>
>
> "... There were significant decreases in fasting serum TAG
> (-33%), postprandial lipemia after a fat-rich meal (-29%), and
> fasting serum insulin concentrations (-34%) after men consumed
> the ketogenic diet. Fasting serum total and LDL cholesterol and
> oxidized LDL were unaffected and HDL cholesterol tended to
> increase with the ketogenic diet (+11.5%; P = 0.066). In
> subjects with a predominance of small LDL particles pattern B,
> there were significant increases in mean and peak LDL particle
> diameter and the percentage of LDL-1 after the ketogenic diet.
> There were no significant changes in blood lipids in the
> control group. To our knowledge this is the first study to
> document the effects of a ketogenic diet on fasting and
> postprandial CVD biomarkers independent of weight loss. The
> results suggest that a short-term ketogenic diet does not have
> a deleterious effect on CVD risk profile and may improve the
> lipid disorders characteristic of atherogenic dyslipidemia."
Same comments.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Jim Bard
"Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD" <and...@heartmdphd.com> wrote in message
news:413FE8...@heartmdphd.com...
> Same comments.
>
>
> Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
>
> Andrew
You know, "Doctor", you are more full of shit than a backed up sewer.
MaryL
My apologies, Cheri. I sent a message pointing out that the title of the
thread doesn't match your remarks. I didn't realize until I saw Mack's
message that you were really responding to A. Chung (although I do see his
name as the last line in your message). I had killfiled him, so I didn't
realize that you were were actually replying to him. What a comedy of
errors (on my part)!
MaryL
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Ouch. You may have at the other cheek.
Sorry my being openly Christian bothers you.
You will be in my prayers, dear neighbor whom I love.
Servant to the humblest person in the universe,
Andrew
--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Wai Doan Hsu
> drugs to lower his blood pressure and cholesterol. He attributed his
> recent weight loss to the low-carb, high-protein South Beach diet, but
> the experts say it probably did not contribute to his heart disease.
>
The problem with this argument is that the South Beach Diet is not low
carb. In fact, the very first sentence in the book says exactly that.
The diet does not make you count carbs or limit you to a certain
number of carbs. It does disallow certain foods that happen to be
high in carbs but allows plenty of foods such as vegetables, and even
fruit except for the first two weeks. After that, it encourages you to
reintroduce fruit and whole grains.
While it does allow protein, it's not unlimited. Dieters are expected
to eat normal sized portions, and you don't have to eat lots of meat
or any meat for that matter if you don't want to. It's low in
saturated fats, but allows non-saturated fats that have health
benefits.
Yes, it keeps you from eating white bread, and other things made with
refined grains, but it lets you eat whole grain foods that are more
healthful. You can also have brown rice instead of white rice, and you
limit carbs only in the sense that you limit certain foods that happen
to be high in carbs but don't limit other carbs such as vegetables,
except in the sense that a normal sized meal is a limit.
The diet was specifically designed to lower cholesterol and blood
sugar, and the weight loss part was just a happy accident. It's all
about food that promotes better blood chemistry.
Clinton had a lifelong history of eating bad food and had a weight
problem. In a recent interview, he said that he "did the South Beach
diet for a while" which indicates that he did not stick with it and
went back to eating those things that are bad for him.