Saturated fat; and heart disease

[bigvince]

What if bad fat isn't so bad?
No one's ever proved that saturated fat clogs arteries, causes heart
disease
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22116724
By Nina Teicholz

updated 12:54 p.m. ET, Thurs., Dec. 13, 2007

Suppose you were forced to live on a diet of red meat and whole milk.
A diet that, all told, was at least 60 percent fat -- about half of it
saturated. If your first thoughts are of statins and stents, you may
want to consider the curious case of the Masai, a nomadic tribe in
Kenya and Tanzania.

In the 1960s, a Vanderbilt University scientist named George Mann,
M.D., found that Masai men consumed this very diet (supplemented with
blood from the cattle they herded). Yet these nomads, who were also
very lean, had some of the lowest levels of cholesterol ever measured
and were virtually free of heart disease.

Scientists, confused by the finding, argued that the tribe must have
certain genetic protections against developing high cholesterol. But
when British researchers monitored a group of Masai men who moved to
Nairobi and began consuming a more modern diet, they discovered that
the men's cholesterol subsequently skyrocketed.......

.......While the findings from these cultures seem to contradict the
fact that eating saturated fat leads to heart disease, it may surprise
you to know that this "fact" isn't a fact at all. It is, more
accurately, a hypothesis from the 1950s that's never been
proved. .........

....The first scientific indictment of saturated fat came in 1953.
That's the year a physiologist named Ancel Keys, Ph.D.,......presented
a comparison of fat intake and heart disease mortality in six
countries: the United States, Canada, Australia, England, Italy, and
Japan. .....

.....The Americans ate the most fat and had the greatest number of
deaths from heart disease; the Japanese ate the least fat and had the
fewest deaths from heart disease. The other countries fell neatly in
between.....

......At the time, plenty of scientists were skeptical of Keys's
assertions. One such critic was Jacob Yerushalmy, Ph.D., founder of
the biostatistics graduate program at the University of California at
Berkeley. In a 1957 paper, Yerushalmy pointed out that while data from
the six countries Keys examined seemed to support the diet-heart
hypothesis, statistics were actually available for 22 countries. And
when all 22 were analyzed, the apparent link between fat consumption
and heart disease disappeared......

..... In this study, Keys reported that in the seven countries he
selected -- the United States, Japan, Italy, Greece, Yugoslavia,
Finland, and the Netherlands -- animal-fat intake was a strong
predictor of heart attacks over a 5-year period. Just as important, he
noted an association between total cholesterol and heart-disease
mortality. This prompted him to conclude that the saturated fats in
animal foods -- and not other types of fat -- raise cholesterol and
ultimately lead to heart disease. ......

But the data was far from rock solid. That's because in three
countries (Finland, Greece, and Yugoslavia), the correlation wasn't
seen. .....

Long article but interesting.

Thanks Vince

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

In our collective clinical experience, it is not what people are
eating but **how much** they are eating that is causing heart disease.

Here is what we are doing about it:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/EatLess

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com
Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.

[Juhana Harju]

Consider this:

Differences in coronary mortality can be explained by differences in
cholesterol and saturated fat intakes in 40 countries but not in France and
Finland. A paradox.
SM Artaud-Wild, SL Connor, G Sexton and WE Connor
Department of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland
97201-3098.
Circulation. 1993 Dec;88(6):2771-9.

BACKGROUND. For decades, the coronary heart disease (CHD) mortality rate has
been four or more times higher in Finland than in France despite comparable
intakes of dietary cholesterol and saturated fat. A potential answer to this
paradox is provided by this study of 40 countries and the analyses of other
nutrients in the diets besides cholesterol and saturated fat.

METHODS AND RESULTS. CHD death rates for men aged 55 to 64 years were
derived from the World Health Organization annual vital statistics. Dietary
intakes were gathered from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the
United Nations database. Forty countries at various levels of economic
development and 40 dietary variables were investigated, including a lipid
score that combined the intakes of cholesterol and saturated fat
(Cholesterol-Saturated Fat Index [CSI]). The CSI was significantly and
positively related to CHD mortality in the 40 countries. The countries with
low CSIs had low CHD death rates. Countries with high CSIs had a wide range
of CHD death rates. France, Finland, and other Western industrialized
countries had similar CSIs. After adjusting for cholesterol and saturated
fat, milk and many components of milk (butterfat, milk protein, calcium from
milk, and riboflavin) and total calcium remained positively related to CHD
mortality for all 40 countries. There were differences in the consumption of
these foods and nutrients in France and Finland. Milk and butterfat (fat
from milk, cream, cheese, and butter) consumption was higher in Finland than
in France. The consumption of plant foods, recently shown to be protective
against CHD (vegetables and vegetable oils containing monounsaturated and
polyunsaturated fatty acids), was greater in France than in Finland.

CONCLUSIONS. Over the years, France and Finland, with similar intakes of
cholesterol and saturated fat, consistently have had very different CHD
mortality rates. This paradox may be explained as follows. Given a high
intake of cholesterol and saturated fat, the country in which people also
consume more plant foods, including small amounts of liquid vegetable oils,
and more vegetables (more antioxidants) had lower rates of CHD mortality. On
the other hand, milk and butterfat were associated with increased CHD
mortality, possibly through their effects on thrombosis as well as on
atherosclerosis. PMID: 8252690

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/88/6/2771

--
Juhana

Ravintoblogini:
http://ruohikolla.blogspot.com/

[BusinessAc...@gmail.com]

On Jan 5, 9:05 am, "Andrew B. Chung

>
> In our collective clinical experience, it is not what people are
> eating but **how much** they are eating that is causing heart disease.
>

Chung's "our" certainly does not mean the medical community as the
medical community does not rely on discerning and the scripture as
"doctor" Chung does.

It does matter what and how much, BUT genetics also matter when
dealing with heart disease and fats.

See:
The Inuit Paradox - How can people who gorge on fat and rarely see a
vegetable be healthier than we are?

http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox

Not a medical journal, but better than discerning and scriptures.

[mike V]

"Juhana Harju" <no...@mail.fi> wrote in message
news:5u9lfgF...@mid.individual.net...

Suggests of course that cholesterol is not a primary cause, but only a
secondary contributor.
MikeV

[J666]

On Jan 5, 11:00 am, "mike V"

> Suggests of course that cholesterol is not a primary cause, but only a
> secondary contributor.
> MikeV

Unlike Chungy who "medicine" is based on discerning and the scripture
and thus knows for certain everything, there is still much which is
not known and with medical studies being done and being reported in
the medical literature, we often learn more.

Genetics play a big role in this problem

[Bill]

In article <13nvdvi...@corp.supernews.com>,
"mike V" <mi...@spammedagain.com> wrote:

I was sort of thinking it is not what you eat but what you don't eat.
Than Eskimo popped into head. Inuit diet in Finland differ much from
nearby people?

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
"Energy is the only life and is from the Body and Reason is the bound
or outward circumference of Energy.
Energy is Eternal Delight"
William Blake

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

mike V wrote:
> "Juhana Harju" <no...@mail.fi> wrote:

> Suggests of course that cholesterol is not a primary cause, but only a
> secondary contributor.

Overeating is the primary cause.

Overeating --> VAT --> heart disease

Cure:

[J666]

Satanist "Doctor" Chung

> Overeating is the primary cause.
>
> Overeating --> VAT --> heart disease

Wrong - genetics can play a big role. There are families where males
die of heart disease at an early age no matter what life style and
diet.

Eating more calories than you need is the primary cause of being
overweight

Except for Chung's postings about about his "diet," there is
absolutely nothing in the medical literature that backs that up -
NOTHING.

To say everyone, tall and short, young and old each eating 2 pounds of
food will "cure" a problem is nothing but charlatanism pure and
simple.

There is a simple way for Chung to prove me wrong, publish his
findings on the 600,000 plus patients in a peer reviewed medical
journal. The fact that he does not, says it all. Many times what
someone does not DO says more than anything else they say or do.

[Juhana Harju]

There are no Inuits in Finland. However, there are Lappish people who herd
reindeers. Traditionally they eat a lot of reindeer meat, fish, game, wild
birds and berries but very little vegetables or fruits. Their morbidity and
mortality is somewhat higher than that of other Finnish people. It seems
that there is no advantage in having this kind of diet, although the
morbidity and mortality depend on non-dietary factors, too (i.e. smoking,
alcohol consumtion and so on).

[bigvince]

Data from the WHO Monica study would tend to counterdict that
statement .At least as far as cholesterol levels are concerned.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i8SSCNaaDcE#GU5U2spHI_4

a visual presentation of the complete lack of correlation between
average cholesterol levels and deaths from heart disease in a
multinational study.
Or I guess the data could be said to just add several more paradoxic
nations

Thanks Vince

[Juhana Harju]

In the international INTERHEART study apoB/apo A-1 ratio was found to be
among the nine strongest risk factors of heart disease. ApoB/apo A-1 ratio
is almost interchangable with total cholesterol/HDL ratio.

Also in the recent meta-analysis published in Lancet cholesterol was shown
to be a risk factor for ischemic heart disease in both sexes and in all age
groups from 40 to 89 years in most developed countries.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673607617784/abstract

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Juhana Harju wrote:

> Bill wrote:
> > "mike V" <mi...@spammedagain.com> wrote:

> >> Suggests of course that cholesterol is not a primary cause, but only
> >> a secondary contributor.

In our collective clinical experience overeating --> VAT is the
primary cause.

Here's the cure:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/EatLess

> > I was sort of thinking it is not what you eat but what you don't eat.
> > Than Eskimo popped into head. Inuit diet in Finland differ much from
> > nearby people?
>
> There are no Inuits in Finland. However, there are Lappish people who herd
> reindeers. Traditionally they eat a lot of reindeer meat, fish, game, wild
> birds and berries but very little vegetables or fruits. Their morbidity and
> mortality is somewhat higher than that of other Finnish people. It seems
> that there is no advantage in having this kind of diet, although the
> morbidity and mortality depend on non-dietary factors, too (i.e. smoking,
> alcohol consumtion and so on).

Otoh, Okinawans enjoy they longest lifespans from their custom of
staying hungry :-))

[mont...@lycos.com]

Of course cholesterol can be a factor, due to its oxidation, which
occurs when it's loaded with PUFAs.

[Ron Peterson]

On Jan 5, 9:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <n...@mail.fi> wrote:

> Consider this:
>
> Differences in coronary mortality can be explained by differences in
> cholesterol and saturated fat intakes in 40 countries but not in France and
> Finland. A paradox.
> SM Artaud-Wild, SL Connor, G Sexton and WE Connor
> Department of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland
> 97201-3098.
> Circulation. 1993 Dec;88(6):2771-9.

Since the milk consumption is much lower in France than Finland, but
butterfat consumption is only slightly lower (because of cheese
consumption) perhaps lactose is a factor. http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/68/4/541.pdf
is an old paper that indicates that lactose increases cholesterol in
rabbits and leads to atherosclerosis.

--
Ron

[Peabody]

So it seems that one study clearly shows CHD is correlated with
cholesterol levels, and the next one clearly shows it isn't.

I wonder if there's any chance of ever knowing what the answer
really is. Well, I guess eventually we will know exactly how
atherosclerosis develops, and that may give us a clue. Or it may
not. :-)

[mont...@lycos.com]

Peabody:

I'm am going to assume you are new to this group. I have been posting
here for several years, and a couple of years ago I decided to start
my own site, rather than continually posting the same material here.
Basically, it is now known what is occurring, down to the molecular
level. What's more, it is easy to avoid CHD with simple dietary
changes, and you don't have to eat bland, unsatisfying food. My free
site is at:

http://groups.msn.com/TheScientificDebateForum-

For example, one of the very interesting findings I cite can be found
at: http://www.case.edu/pubaff/univcomm/2002/june/cholesterol.htm

Here is a key passage:

QUOTE: ...We stumbled onto a non enzymatic process that transforms
endoperoxides into toxic oxidized lipids, levuglandins, that stick to
proteins and DNA," Salomon said.

Similar endoperoxides are produced by nonenzymatic oxidation of lipids
caused by free radicals. Salomon realized that when these
endoperoxides are transformed into isolevuglandins they become "very
reactive materials that act like a magnet that sticks to everything,
including the protein in LDL particles."

Macrophage cells, described as the garbage trucks of the blood, try to
carry away oxidatively damaged LDL. When macrophages get gummed up
with oxidized lipids, they "become bloated with partially digested
lipoprotein and globules of cholesterol" and form "foam cells,"
Salomon said.

Eventually foam cells develop into the atherosclerotic plaque found in
cardiovascular disease.

"Macrophages are supposed to clean up oxidatively damaged LDL but are
covered with these toxic oxidized lipids that bring the whole process
to a grinding halt," Salomon said.

Isolevuglandins "spoil" the protein, according to Salomon, who added
that antioxidants, like vitamin E, help protect the body against this
bad chemistry. When the antioxidants fail, the damage from free
radical oxidation occurs... UNQUOTE.

[Ron Peterson]

On Jan 5, 6:05 pm, Susan <neverm...@nomail.com> wrote:

> I think we know that cholesterol doesn't cause heart disease.  

IIRC, experiments that have increased the amount of cholesterol in the
blood stream have induced atherosclerosis.

--
Ron

[Juhana Harju]

That is interesting. Still I believe that the more important factor
explaining the difference between these two countries is the vitamin K2
content in cheese. I believe it mitigates the adverse effect of saturated
fat in cheese. In the Rotterdam study where higher intake of vitamin K2
(mainly from cheese) was associated with 50 % lower heart disease mortality.

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/134/11/3100

[trigonom...@gmail.com]

>
> There are no Inuits in Finland. However, there are Lappish people who herd
> reindeers. Traditionally they eat a lot of reindeer meat, fish, game, wild
> birds and berries but very little vegetables or fruits. Their morbidity and
> mortality is somewhat higher than that of other Finnish people. It seems
> that there is no advantage in having this kind of diet, although the
> morbidity and mortality depend on non-dietary factors, too (i.e. smoking,
> alcohol consumtion and so on).
>
> --
> Juhana
>
> Ravintoblogini:http://ruohikolla.blogspot.com/

I do have to wonder if the higher level of fall out
radiation seen in reindeer meat eaters may have
played a role in reducing lifespans and related
diseases. I'd assume they got a rather high
dose in at least the 50's , 60's, 70's and 80's and
perhaps longer given the 30 year half life of
some of the isotopes deposited in the grazing
range.

Still I take your point.

[Juhana Harju]

trigonom...@gmail.com wrote:
>> There are no Inuits in Finland. However, there are Lappish people
>> who herd reindeers. Traditionally they eat a lot of reindeer meat,
>> fish, game, wild birds and berries but very little vegetables or
>> fruits. Their morbidity and mortality is somewhat higher than that
>> of other Finnish people. It seems that there is no advantage in
>> having this kind of diet, although the morbidity and mortality
>> depend on non-dietary factors, too (i.e. smoking, alcohol consumtion
>> and so on).
>>

> I do have to wonder if the higher level of fall out
> radiation seen in reindeer meat eaters may have
> played a role in reducing lifespans and related
> diseases. I'd assume they got a rather high
> dose in at least the 50's , 60's, 70's and 80's and
> perhaps longer given the 30 year half life of
> some of the isotopes deposited in the grazing
> range.

Indeed they got higher levels of radiation due to nuclear testing
particularly during 60's, but still I think that the normal background
radiation exceeded the amount of radiation they got from diet.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Juhana Harju wrote:
> trigonom...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> There are no Inuits in Finland. However, there are Lappish people

> >> who herd reindeers. Traditionally they eat **a lot** of reindeer meat,

**emphasis** added.

> >> fish, game, wild birds and berries but very little vegetables or
> >> fruits. Their morbidity and mortality is somewhat higher than that
> >> of other Finnish people. It seems that there is no advantage in
> >> having this kind of diet, although the morbidity and mortality
> >> depend on non-dietary factors, too (i.e. smoking, alcohol consumtion
> >> and so on).
> >>
> > I do have to wonder if the higher level of fall out
> > radiation seen in reindeer meat eaters may have
> > played a role in reducing lifespans and related
> > diseases. I'd assume they got a rather high
> > dose in at least the 50's , 60's, 70's and 80's and
> > perhaps longer given the 30 year half life of
> > some of the isotopes deposited in the grazing
> > range.
>
> Indeed they got higher levels of radiation due to nuclear testing
> particularly during 60's, but still I think that the normal background
> radiation exceeded the amount of radiation they got from diet.

The most likely explanation for more heart disease is the overeating.

See **emphasis** above.

May they all read the following:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeHealthy

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com

Friend to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.

[flyingrat]

In article <8fca8f38-920c-4902-beb0-7473f34f8397
@d21g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, hear...@emorycardiology.com says...

>
> May they all read the following:

Andrew Chung:

Is a frequent and proven liar (evidence archived forever on Google)

Has lost numerous NNTP accounts with supernews and others, has had many
Google accounts nuked, and his vanity domain heartmdphd.com is now
banned from setting up accounts. He is instead using multiple Google
sock accounts and email addresses in the format love#@thetruth.com (#
being a number) or others from his vanity domain emorycardiology.com

Is unemployed after being sacked with cause from his one and only job
after just over 80 days

Fled the state of Florida, and now claims to practice in Georgia despite
having no admission priveliges in the State's hospitals

Runs a phony foundation with a total declared income of circa $200, the
ownership and contact details of which are obfuscated on its website

Makes failed prophecies concerning earthquakes with areas and dates,
which don't happen (remember the bible quotes about false prophets)

Performed a public attempt at 'exorcising' a Malaysian sock on usenet,
then denied doing it. He has recently reversed position again and admits
to practicing exorcism by usenet, proving himself a liar in the process.

Promotes a dangerous diet, with a million dollar guarantee that he
demands thirty dollars to access details of. This despite being
unemployed. His soliciting and spamming for donations looks to be
similar to the Nigerian Advance Fee Fraud, where victims pay money
upfront in the hope of coming into riches but find they have merely
bought into a lie. Part of his advice is to pour nail polish remover onto food.

Declares he has a cardiology practice despite posting night and day from
the same IP address (his home presumably) or a coffee shop internet cafe

Makes further false prophecies that we should now be all dying in a bird
flu pandemic. When these fail to happen, he does them all over again and
changes the dates. Nuclear war is another Chung spciality, which
naturally doesn't happen when he says it is going to.

Worships evil hatemonger Fred Phelps and will not denounce the acts of
Westboro's congregation. He even accuses someone with the name Phelps of
being Fred's son and refuses to accept he is completely wrong.

Uses the same patter as Pat Robertson, indicating his religious activity
is confined to watching cable TV. No evidence Chung has ever attended a
church.

Has a tendency to cyberstalk, particularly women. His wife fled some
time ago to another state, an act which Chung tries to pass off as "being
on vacation".

Frequently passes himself off as being qualified in areas such as
endocrinology, despite making incredibly fundamental blunders in his
'advice'. It is no wonder the Florida heart facility terminated him, and
has publicly denounced his version of events. Again archived on Google.

Don't forget the fake fast, where he didn't lose any weight, as well as
the infamous 666 stamping fiasco. His latest vile trick is spamming the
blogs of dying cancer patients and then crowing triumphantly when they
pass away.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4f93bdec4f3bbf14?

<><

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful
New Years Day ...

... by being hungrier:

http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD

Hunger is wonderful :-)

It's how we know what GOD wants, which is what is good.

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.

Those who suffer from the powerful delusion predicted by the prophecy
of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 would deny this and perish however:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

:-)))

[J666]

On Jan 6, 11:20 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

Ho hum more of the same Chung drivel.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
>
> > http://groups.google.com/group/sci.med.cardiology/msg/4f93bdec4f3bbf14?

> >
> > <><
>
> Ho hum more of the same Chung drivel.

Not for the discerning, satan.

May we, who are discerning, continue to rebuke you at each GOD-given
opportunity:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/Rebukesatan

<><

May dear neighbors, friends, and brethren have a blessedly wonderful

2008th year since the birth of our LORD Jesus Christ as the Son of
Man ...

... by being hungrier:

http://TruthRUS.org/KnowingGOD

Hunger is wonderful :-)

It's how we know what GOD wants, which is what is good.

Yes, hunger is our knowledge of good versus evil that Adam and Eve
paid for with their and our immortal lives.

Those who suffer from the powerful delusion predicted by the prophecy
of 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 would deny this and perish however:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyOne

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyTwo

http://HeartMDPhD.com/Convicts/CrazyThree

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/HolySpirit/BeBlessed

"Blessed are you who hunger NOW...

... for you will be satisfied." -- LORD Jesus Christ (Luke 6:21)

Amen.

Prayerfully in the infinite power and might of the Holy Spirit,

Andrew <><
--
Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Lawful steward of http://EmoryCardiology.com

Bondservant to the KING of kings and LORD of lords.

[J666]

Ho hum As you can see, just like a knee jerk reflex, get the same
Chung Jerk Reflex because that is all he can do. It is mentally
impossible to do anything else.

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote:
> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
>

> >Ho hum As you can see, just like a knee jerk reflex, get the same
> >Chung Jerk Reflex because that is all he can do. It is mentally
> >impossible to do anything else.
>

> I am read Dr chung's posts tyonght. I think he is doing very well.
> I hope he uses his training wellk all of the time.
>
> I just had a run that included CAT scan, and EEG and a dozen
> other test to verify I was not having a stroke or heart attack.
>
> All OK but I still having short time strong problems. where
> almost go out. With vertigo and confusion.
>
> Good blood fllow on the doppler,
>
> The ran the complete test series.
>
> Dr. Chung , any input woiuld be appreciated.
>
> Guy

Would suggest you ask for a referral to consult with a cardiologist
who would likely have you wear a 24 hour heart monitor to exclude the
possibility that you are having dysrhythmias as the etiology behind
your near-syncopal symptoms.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

convicted friend Guy (g...@consolidated.net) wrote:

> satan via a sockpuppet (corporeal demon) hissed:
>

> >Ho hum As you can see, just like a knee jerk reflex, get the same
> >Chung Jerk Reflex because that is all he can do. It is mentally
> >impossible to do anything else.
>

> I am read Dr chung's posts tyonght. I think he is doing very well.
> I hope he uses his training wellk all of the time.
>
> I just had a run that included CAT scan, and EEG and a dozen
> other test to verify I was not having a stroke or heart attack.
>
> All OK but I still having short time strong problems. where
> almost go out. With vertigo and confusion.
>
> Good blood fllow on the doppler,
>
> The ran the complete test series.
>
> Dr. Chung , any input woiuld be appreciated.
>
> Guy

Would suggest you ask for a referral to consult with a cardiologist
who would likely have you wear a 24 hour heart monitor to exclude the
possibility that you are having dysrhythmias as the etiology behind
your near-syncopal symptoms.

Be hungry... be healthy... be hungrier... be blessed:

http://TheWellnessFoundation.com/BeHealthy

[Jim Chinnis]

Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:

I think this is very likely correct.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

[Taka]

On Jan 8, 12:22 pm, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
> Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>
>
>
> >On Jan 5, 9:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <n...@mail.fi> wrote:
>
> >> Consider this:
>
> >> Differences in coronary mortality can be explained by differences in
> >> cholesterol and saturated fat intakes in 40 countries but not in France and
> >> Finland. A paradox.
> >> SM Artaud-Wild, SL Connor, G Sexton and WE Connor
> >> Department of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland
> >> 97201-3098.
> >> Circulation. 1993 Dec;88(6):2771-9.
>
> >Since the milk consumption is much lower in France than Finland, but
> >butterfat consumption is only slightly lower (because of cheese

> >consumption) perhaps lactose is a factor.http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/68/4/541.pdf

> >is an old paper that indicates that lactose increases cholesterol in
> >rabbits and leads to atherosclerosis.
>
> I think this is very likely correct.
> --
> Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

So we end up at the sugars again here. Saturated fat neither
cholesterol(directly) is to be blamed. But sugar itself is not a
harmful compound if controlled properly by insulin in most people. So
what's the hell the mechanism behind it? I think the answer may lie
in the intestinal bacteria, particularly the gram negative one which
contain ENDOTOXIN (it's their cell wall, highly immunogenic
lipopolysaccharides, LPS) and CpG unmethylated DNA. Human body is
HIGHLY sensitive to both these compounds via the evolutionaly
conserved toll like receptors - TLR4 and TLR9, respectively. If there
is sugar the bacteria overgrow and produce more endotoxin which in
turn ignites the host immune response/inflammation which in turn
stimulates the cholesterol production (general stress response).

I wonder, is this the reason meat+fat-only diets are lowering
cholesterol? I would like to see the bacterial "fauna and flora" in
the Eskimos or other people on very low carb diets. Also one can do
experiment with the SPF pathogen free/sterile animals and see whether
the sugars would elevate cholesterol or cause atherosclerosis in them.

Taka

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Taka wrote:
> Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
> > Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
> > >On Jan 5, 9:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <n...@mail.fi> wrote:
> >
> > >> Consider this:
> >
> > >> Differences in coronary mortality can be explained by differences in
> > >> cholesterol and saturated fat intakes in 40 countries but not in France and
> > >> Finland. A paradox.
> > >> SM Artaud-Wild, SL Connor, G Sexton and WE Connor
> > >> Department of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland
> > >> 97201-3098.
> > >> Circulation. 1993 Dec;88(6):2771-9.
> >
> > >Since the milk consumption is much lower in France than Finland, but
> > >butterfat consumption is only slightly lower (because of cheese
> > >consumption) perhaps lactose is a factor.http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/68/4/541.pdf
> > >is an old paper that indicates that lactose increases cholesterol in
> > >rabbits and leads to atherosclerosis.
> >
> > I think this is very likely correct.
>

> So we end up at the sugars again here. Saturated fat neither
> cholesterol(directly) is to be blamed. But sugar itself is not a
> harmful compound if controlled properly by insulin in most people.

It is not what we are eating but **how much** we are overeating that
is harming us:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeHealthy

[Juhana Harju]

Taka wrote:
> On Jan 8, 12:22 pm, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
>> Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
>>> On Jan 5, 9:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <n...@mail.fi> wrote:
>>
>>>> Consider this:
>>
>>>> Differences in coronary mortality can be explained by differences
>>>> in cholesterol and saturated fat intakes in 40 countries but not
>>>> in France and Finland. A paradox.
>>>> SM Artaud-Wild, SL Connor, G Sexton and WE Connor
>>>> Department of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland
>>>> 97201-3098.
>>>> Circulation. 1993 Dec;88(6):2771-9.
>>
>>> Since the milk consumption is much lower in France than Finland, but
>>> butterfat consumption is only slightly lower (because of cheese
>>> consumption) perhaps lactose is a
>>> factor.http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/68/4/541.pdf is an old
>>> paper that indicates that lactose increases cholesterol in
>>> rabbits and leads to atherosclerosis.
>>
>> I think this is very likely correct.
>>

> So we end up at the sugars again here. Saturated fat neither
> cholesterol(directly) is to be blamed.

In a study based on the Nurses' Health Study higher intake of whole milk was
associated with significantly higher heart disease while skim milk was
associated non-significantly with reduced risk. This could not be the case
if lactose were to be blaimed.

"Among the dairy products, whole-milk consumption was associated with a
significantly increased risk of CHD. The multivariate RRs across categories
of intake of whole milk [almost never, <244 g/wk (1 glass/wk), 488-1464 g/wk
(2-6 glasses/wk), 244 g/d (1 glass/d), and 488 g/d (2 glasses/d)] were 1.0,
1.20, 1.17, 1.48, and 1.67 (1.14, 1.90; P for trend < 0.0001). In contrast,
a greater consumption of skim milk was associated with a nonsignificantly
lower risk of CHD; corresponding RRs across categories of intake were 1.0,
0.83, 0.77, 0.89, and 0.78 (0.63, 0.96; P for trend = 0.09)."

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/70/6/1001#T7

[bigvince]

On Jan 8, 4:15 am, "Juhana Harju" <n...@mail.fi> wrote:
> Taka wrote:
> > On Jan 8, 12:22 pm, Jim Chinnis <jchin...@SPAMalum.mit.edu> wrote:
> >> Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote in part:
> >>> On Jan 5, 9:19 am, "Juhana Harju" <n...@mail.fi> wrote:
>
> >>>> Consider this:
>
> >>>> Differences in coronary mortality can be explained by differences
> >>>> in cholesterol and saturated fat intakes in 40 countries but not
> >>>> in France and Finland. A paradox.
> >>>> SM Artaud-Wild, SL Connor, G Sexton and WE Connor
> >>>> Department of Medicine, Oregon Health Sciences University, Portland
> >>>> 97201-3098.
> >>>> Circulation. 1993 Dec;88(6):2771-9.
>
> >>> Since the milk consumption is much lower in France than Finland, but
> >>> butterfat consumption is only slightly lower (because of cheese
> >>> consumption) perhaps lactose is a

> >>> factor.http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/68/4/541.pdfis an old

> >>> paper that indicates that lactose increases cholesterol in
> >>> rabbits and leads to atherosclerosis.
>
> >> I think this is very likely correct.
>
> > So we end up at the sugars again here.  Saturated fat neither
> > cholesterol(directly) is to be blamed.
>
> In a study based on the Nurses' Health Study higher intake of whole milk was
> associated with significantly higher heart disease while skim milk was
> associated non-significantly with reduced risk. This could not be the case
> if lactose were to be blaimed.
>

From the same study
"Women with high saturated fat intakes were more likely to smoke, less
likely to exercise, and less likely to take multivitamin and vitamin E
supplements (Table 4). Saturated fat intake was positively correlated
with intakes of other fatty acids, especially monounsaturated fat and
dietary cholesterol, and inversely correlated with intakes of alcohol
and fiber. "

The effect on insulin of exercise may be key here . As high insulin
levels may promote heart disease.

Thanks Vince

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

It is not.

> As high insulin levels may promote heart disease.

It simply does not in normal people.

In normal people, exogenously added insulin to raise insulin levels to
high will kill normal people before causing heart disease.

What causes heart disease is VAT, which arises from overeating:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeHealthy

[Juhana Harju]

I presented the multivariate relative risks, i.e the results were controlled
for confounding factors.

[Ron Peterson]

On Jan 8, 2:59 am, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote:

> So we end up at the sugars again here.  Saturated fat neither
> cholesterol(directly) is to be blamed.  But sugar itself is not a
> harmful compound if controlled properly by insulin in most people.  So

> what's the hell the mechanism behind it?  ...

Atherosclerosis has multiple causes besides dietary factors. Of the
dietary factors, some sugars might be involved as well as saturated
fats. http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/11/3256#T1 points
to oxidized fatty acids as another cause of atherosclerosis.

--
Ron

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Ron Peterson wrote:
> On Jan 8, 2:59�am, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So we end up at the sugars again here. �Saturated fat neither
> > cholesterol(directly) is to be blamed. �But sugar itself is not a
> > harmful compound if controlled properly by insulin in most people. �So
> > what's the hell the mechanism behind it? �...
>
> Atherosclerosis has multiple causes besides dietary factors.

In our collective clinical experience, atherosclerosis does not happen
sans VAT, which arises from overeating:

http://HeartMDPhD.com/BeHealthy

[Ron Peterson]

On Jan 8, 11:18 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"
<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> Ron Peterson wrote:

> > Atherosclerosis has multiple causes besides dietary factors.

> In our collective clinical experience, atherosclerosis does not happen
> sans VAT, which arises from overeating:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070913084429.htm
indicates that nicotine is a contributing factor for atherosclerosis.

Certainly, you must have some elderly patients that don't have
appreciable VAT that have atherosclerosis.

--
Ron

[Taka]

Give the Nurses' Health Study a break, it's just statistical play to
get the paid researchers more credit ...

On Jan 9, 1:51 am, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Jan 8, 2:59 am, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So we end up at the sugars again here. Saturated fat neither
> > cholesterol(directly) is to be blamed. But sugar itself is not a
> > harmful compound if controlled properly by insulin in most people. So
> > what's the hell the mechanism behind it? ...
>
> Atherosclerosis has multiple causes besides dietary factors.

So which of them is the most important one?

> Of the
> dietary factors, some sugars might be involved as well as saturated
> fats.http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/11/3256#T1points
> to oxidized fatty acids as another cause of atherosclerosis.

Very nice study, oxidized PUFAs may be indeed the #1 cause long term.

Taka

[Ron Peterson]

On Jan 8, 7:15 pm, Taka <taka0...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Give the Nurses' Health Study a break, it's just statistical play to
> get the paid researchers more credit ...
>
> On Jan 9, 1:51 am, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:

> > Atherosclerosis has multiple causes besides dietary factors.

> So which of them is the most important one?

Nicotine is the most important.

Hypertension is next.

Then trans fats.

> > Of the
> > dietary factors, some sugars might be involved as well as saturated
> > fats.http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/11/3256#T1points
> > to oxidized fatty acids as another cause of atherosclerosis.

> Very nice study, oxidized PUFAs may be indeed the #1 cause long term.

It gets difficult to rank the causes. Inadequate vitamin D and vitamin
K are risk factors.

SFA, carbs, and MUFA are risk factors.

Inadequate omega 3 fatty acids is also a risk factor.

--
Ron

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Ron Peterson wrote:

> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> > > Atherosclerosis has multiple causes besides dietary factors.
>
> > In our collective clinical experience, atherosclerosis does not happen
> > sans VAT, which arises from overeating:
>
> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/09/070913084429.htm
> indicates that nicotine is a contributing factor for atherosclerosis.
>
> Certainly, you must have some elderly patients that don't have
> appreciable VAT that have atherosclerosis.

The ones that do not have VAT because they have not been overeating do
not have atherosclerosis:

http://TruthRUS.org/DreadNought

[cruiser]

> Taka- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Suggest that you look into eNOS decoupling and its relation to heart
disease.

Take 10-15mg / day folic acid.

Maybe an Aspirin?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T1C-49V9HJD-3&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=0693ad647dfa8d207c0cfb9880d73c0f

Conclusions: Aspirin did not have a significant effect on the NO
bioavailability in endothelial cells. However, aspirin highly improved
the NO production in platelets. The high NO production in platelets
may counteract the effect of thromboxane, inhibit platelet
aggregation, and compensate for the reduction of prostacycline
concentration by aspirin.

It is all about oxygen availability to tissues.

Low oxygen availability causes cancer, heart disease, and most chronic
diseases, that you were not born with.

If I had cancer, or heart disease, I would buy an oxygen generator and
sleep with a 10-15% increase in oxygen at night only.

I am still searching for the cause of the low oxygen.

BTW, oxygen is needed to burn fat. Consequently when you have low
oxygen availability, cells tend more towards fermentation energy
production. This looks like mitochondrial disfunction, and oxidative
stress.

This situation may relate to cholesterol and triglyceride buildup,
since you are not burning fat as much and as effectively.

cruiser

[Ron Peterson]

On Jan 9, 3:41 am, "Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD"

<heartdo...@emorycardiology.com> wrote:
> Ron Peterson wrote:

> > Certainly, you must have some elderly patients that don't have
> > appreciable VAT that have atherosclerosis.

> The ones that do not have VAT because they have not been overeating do
> not have atherosclerosis:

How can you tell if or how much VAT a person has?

How can you tell if a person has atherosclerosis? Aren't there
variations in the amount of atherosclerosis a person may have?

--
Ron

[Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD]

Ron Peterson wrote:

> Andrew, in the Holy Spirit, boldly wrote:
> > Ron Peterson wrote:
>
> > > Certainly, you must have some elderly patients that don't have
> > > appreciable VAT that have atherosclerosis.
>
> > The ones that do not have VAT because they have not been overeating do
> > not have atherosclerosis:
> >

> > http://TruthRUS.org/DreadNought

>
> How can you tell if or how much VAT a person has?

Men with WHR less than 0.85 and women with WHR less that 0.75 are the
folks with little to no VAT.

WHR is Waist to Hip Ratio as measured by a physician.

> How can you tell if a person has atherosclerosis?

There are clinical signs (stigmata) of it.

> Aren't there variations in the amount of atherosclerosis a person may have?

Any amount of atherosclerosis is pathological.