Too old for math grad school?
Bezek...@aol.com
I know that it's a little weird to ask a question like this in an open
public forum, but there's nobody in my area with this problem, so I
thought I'd give this a try.
I am 45 yrs old. I have a BS from Carnegie Mellon and an MS from
Virginia Tech. For personal reasons, I never went on to get a PhD in
math but always wanted to. I now work doing math analysis/research for
an electrical engineering group at a small university, and needless to
say, I've done a lot of independent work, published a fair amount,
done a bunch of confs, etc.
Now that I am not encumbered by a lot of the personal obligations I
had formerly, I'd like to go back and get my PhD (in either applied or
industrial math). The people I work with are not very math oriented
(go figure, you'd think engineers would be), and in the end, I want to
work someplace better (in terms of meaningful projects) and with a bit
more security. I'm a little rusty on some of the upper level subjects
(like measure theory and topology), but my job gives me ample time to
do some self study and get back up to speed. My problem is not so much
whether I can do the work, but whether grad programs will think I'm to
old (and want to spend their resources on someone younger) and also if
anyone will want me when I get out. I think with my background in EE I
would still have a decent chance of getting at least a decent research
postn. I'm not looking for tons of money (maybe even a bit above a
post-doc salary would not be too bad), but I also want to test the
waters and see if my ideas square up with reality before I begin
making moves.
Thank you very much,
Marcus
Gerry Myerson
Bezek...@aol.com wrote:
I can't answer your questions, but I can tell you that I know of
a precedent. A fellow named Sam Krass who made enough money
to retire in, I think, his 50s, and go back to mathematics, got a PhD
in Number Theory under George Szekeres in the early 1980s and
published a few papers.
--
Gerry Myerson (ge...@maths.mq.edi.ai) (i -> u for email)
Lee Rudolph
>I can't answer your questions, but I can tell you that I know of
>a precedent. A fellow named Sam Krass who made enough money
>to retire in, I think, his 50s, and go back to mathematics, got a PhD
>in Number Theory under George Szekeres in the early 1980s and
>published a few papers.
There was another example in knot theory, with a retirement perhaps
even later (from a career managing and owning Western Auto stores--a
brand that seems to have vanished from the American landscape, but
which was very important in rural and/or midwestern America at one
time), though at the moment I can't remember the fellow's name.
Lee Rudolph
Marcus
A few counter-examples are worth something, huh?
I guess I'm trying to get a feel first to see if it is even worth it
to apply to a (decent, i.e. Group I or II) grad school. Of course no
one person here can speak for the avg prof who'd be reviewing an
application, but I am wondering what the thoughts are of those of you
out there in such a position. My grades were good (3.85 in my math
courses with about 3.5 overall GPA), my refs and work record show I
can do research and that I have a broad background, my GREs are pretty
solid (Math=800/Verbal=740/Logic=700), but I keep thinking that when
the people who review the apps get to my age it is just going to be a
deal breaker.
Thanks for your thoughts,
MB
Marc Reinig
EE PhD program.
I do work for the Observatory (part of the UC system), but what made the
difference, I believe, was taking grad courses through extension and finding
a professor who thought it would be worth taking me into his group. It's
much easier when there is someone saying, "Look, I know this guy and I want
him", as opposed to the selection mill where all the applications are from
people they only know from the documents supplied.
Marco
________________________
Marc Reinig
UCO/Lick Observatory
Laboratory for Adaptive Optics
"Marcus" <Bezek...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1176166604.6...@y66g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Marcus
> Well, for what its worth, I'm 62 and I've been accepted to UC Santa Cruz's
> EE PhD program.
>
> I do work for the Observatory (part of the UC system), but what made the
> difference, I believe, was taking grad courses through extension and finding
> a professor who thought it would be worth taking me into his group. It's
> much easier when there is someone saying, "Look, I know this guy and I want
> him", as opposed to the selection mill where all the applications are from
> people they only know from the documents supplied.
>
> Marco
> ________________________
> Marc Reinig
> UCO/Lick Observatory
> Laboratory for Adaptive Optics
>
First off, congratulations. Sounds like you're in a great place and a
good situation. Thank you also for the excellent advice. I know that
what you say is true (i.e. a decently placed faculty member who knows
you abilities and with whom you have a joint interest to which you can
contribute can definitely tip the scales, so to speak), and now that
you bring this up, I can recall several people I know who shifted
fields in such a situation.
Thanks again and good luck,
MB
Dave L. Renfro
> I guess I'm trying to get a feel first to see if it is
> even worth it to apply to a (decent, i.e. Group I or II)
> grad school. Of course no one person here can speak for
> the avg prof who'd be reviewing an application, but I am
> wondering what the thoughts are of those of you out there
> in such a position. My grades were good (3.85 in my math
> courses with about 3.5 overall GPA), my refs and work record
> show I can do research and that I have a broad background,
> my GREs are pretty solid (Math=800/Verbal=740/Logic=700),
> but I keep thinking that when the people who review the
> apps get to my age it is just going to be a deal breaker.
If you don't need a teaching assistantship for money and
you say this, I don't think you'll have much trouble. It might
also help if you apply to an M.A. program in a different
specialization than what you got your Masters in, with
the intent of switching to the Ph.D. after taking and
passing the Ph.D. qualifying exams. I actually did this,
after some earlier less than stellar academic experiences,
including undergraduate GPA's almost a full point under
yours. I had an M.A. in math, essentially all pure math,
and I needed an assistantship to survive and I was pretty
sure I wouldn't be able to get admitted directly to this
university's Ph.D. program (having already been turned
down by over a dozen lesser universities), so I applied
to their applied math M.A. program (explaining in my cover
letter that I wanted to gain "marketable skills"), took
and passed the Ph.D. exams after my first year, and never
looked back. I think I only took one applied math course
the entire time I was at this particular university, and
this was during my first semester there. [Since I knew,
based on my fairly strong background knowledge and my
ability when properly motivated, that I could complete
the necessary requirements for their M.A. applied math
degree in one year, my backup plan -- needed, because
I also knew that I'd only be supported for two years
in the M.A. program -- was to do exactly what I said
in my cover letter I was there for, during my second
year (if I didn't pass the Ph.D. exams).]
By the way, I don't think your age will have any bearing
on getting in. But it will likely play a significant role
after you get your Ph.D. and enter the job market.
Dave L. Renfro
Guy Corrigall
Guy Corrigall (62, and still fighting)
<Bezek...@aol.com> wrote in message
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