Is 361 a real miracle or a hoax?
ProofofGod
Summary: http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm
Full article: http://www.islamrevolution.org/361mainarticle.htm
More can be found in the above mentioned website.
Thanks in advance.
curious george
"ProofofGod" <pier...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:25036373.6.123852142...@nitrogen.mathforum.org...
the only thing found in the quran is shit and more shit. like all religions,
islam will not add anything to our scientific knowledge. in fact, as it is
practiced all over the muslim word, it's a major obstacle to free thinking.
so there is no miracle of 361 or 163. the only miracle is that there are
still so many idiots out there who think islam is science or that islam can
explain anything scientific or predict anything scientific. The only thing
that islam promotes is Obscurantism.
Mensanator
How do the two false verses inseerted into the Quran to justify
the Sunni stealing the Islamic leadership away from the rightful
heirs of Mohammed figure into this?
Doesn't that throw off all the counts?
Ken Pledger
<25036373.6.123852142...@nitrogen.mathforum.org>,
ProofofGod <pier...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am not an expert in math so I would very much like some educated feedback
> from mathematicians on the following mathematical phenomenon found in Quran:
> Summary: http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm
> Full article: http://www.islamrevolution.org/361mainarticle.htm
> ....
In answer to your subject heading, the occurrences of 361 and 19
are neither a real miracle nor a hoax. Similar numerological patterns
can be found in any sufficiently long text, by anyone determined enough
to do a lot of work looking for them.
Many years ago a colleague and I were sent copies of a religious
pamphlet from some unknown person hiding behind a Post Office Box
address (just as you hide behind a pdeudonym). The pamphlet built lots
of numbers from words in the Jewish/Christian bible, and produced
several striking patterns. The writer claimed that these patterns
showed that every word of the bible was inspired by God.
Just for fun, the two of us spent half an hour looking for similar
patterns in the first verse of "God Save the Queen". We found several
of them, without much trouble. Do you really think it follows that
every word of the British national anthem was also inspired by God?
Here's how to play the game. Choose any text. Spend enough time
playing with numbers built on words of your text to list a few hundred
numbers. Look through your list for various matches and patterns. (You
will find plenty.) Then make some suitably reverent announcement about
it, as if it were somthing wonderful.
I don't imagine for a moment that you'll be convinced; but you
did ask for a mathematician's comment.
Ken Pledger.
ProofofGod
http://www.islamrevolution.org/9128129parti.htm
When you don't take into account 9:128-129, there is an amazing mathematical convergence of 19 based properties (http://www.islamrevolution.org/miracleof19.htm) since it is the very function of "19" to be a protective device in the Quran. If you add 9:128-129, since you "add digits to the password", you can't access the miracle anymore and the math "convergence" vanishes for the most part.
Furthermore the miracle of 19 clearly points specifically at 9:128-129 as being the verses that were going to be added, like if the one who conceived the book knew in advance where they were going to be placed.
Mensanator
> I see that you've done some reading on the article on the satanic verses 9:128-129: http://www.islamrevolution.org/9128129parti.htm
I overlooked those in your summary. I never read _your_ account,
I read about the clown who started all this nonsense, the guy
who got snuffed for his trouble.
> When you don't take into account 9:128-129, there is an amazing mathematical convergence of 19 based properties (http://www.islamrevolution.org/miracleof19.htm) since it is the very function of "19" to be a protective device in the Quran. If you add 9:128-129, since you "add digits to the password", you can't access the miracle anymore and the math "convergence" vanishes for the most part.
I've read that that "19" business is crap, that things were
deliberately miscounted to make the numbers work out. So even if
all your math works out exactly as you claim, there is still
dispute over what has been claimed to have been counted.
> Furthermore the miracle of 19 clearly points specifically at 9:128-129 as being the verses that were going to be added, like if the one who conceived the book knew in advance where they were going to be placed.
So, your miracle is based on the false verses being removed?
That makes you a Shiite and thus, a heretic to the Sunni, right?
Just trying to help the assassins get it clear who to go after.
Bill Taylor
> the only thing found in the quran is shit and more shit. like all religions,
> islam will not add anything to our scientific knowledge. in fact, as it is
> practiced all over the muslim word, it's a major obstacle to free thinking.
> so there is no miracle of 361 or 163. the only miracle is that there are
> still so many idiots out there who think islam is science or that islam can
> explain anything scientific or predict anything scientific. The only thing
> that islam promotes is Obscurantism.
Come on George! Don't hold back - tell us what you REALLY think!
Jens Stueckelberger
> I am not an expert in math so I would very much like some educated
> feedback from mathematicians on the following mathematical phenomenon
> found in Quran: Summary: http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm
> Full article: http://www.islamrevolution.org/361mainarticle.htm
This crap is similar to the Bible Code crap, which has been
thoroughly debunked long ago. No, the stinking Quran is not the word of
God (any God.) The stinking Bible isn't either.
ProofofGod
> So, your miracle is based on the false verses being
> removed?
>
> That makes you a Shiite and thus, a heretic to the
> Sunni, right?
>
> Just trying to help the assassins get it clear who to
> go after.
Hi Mensanator,
The miracle of 19 is based on the true Quran. Taking 9:128-129 into accounts triggers the collapse of a massive convergence based on 19.
http://www.islamrevolution.org/9128129parti.htm
Honnestly I am surprised that people who study math and I am sure soem of whom are experts are not even able to address the substance even of the followinf summary on 361:
http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm
361 shows the difference between a mathematical system and baseless numerology: 361 is based on a consustent system.
Leo Sgouros
http://vapolluan.livejournal.com/63743.html
Thats a picture of 'Sailor Venus"
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.religion.kibology/msg/caae601107634301?hl=en
This works in the real world, and has worked when other apply their own
rules.
ProofofGod
> This crap is similar to the Bible Code crap, which
> h has been
> thoroughly debunked long ago. No, the stinking Quran
> is not the word of
> God (any God.) The stinking Bible isn't either.
>
>
361 is very different from the so called Bible codes because it does not follow a random method. If you read the summary of 361 with an open mind you will understand the difference: http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm
amy666
neilist thinks about JSH's ass every 361 seconds.
is that a miracle ?
Michael Stemper
>In article <25036373.6.123852142...@nitrogen.mathforum.org>, ProofofGod <pier...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I am not an expert in math so I would very much like some educated feedback
>> from mathematicians on the following mathematical phenomenon found in Quran:
>
> In answer to your subject heading, the occurrences of 361 and 19
>are neither a real miracle nor a hoax. Similar numerological patterns
>can be found in any sufficiently long text, by anyone determined enough
>to do a lot of work looking for them.
>
> Many years ago a colleague and I were sent copies of a religious
>pamphlet from some unknown person hiding behind a Post Office Box
>address (just as you hide behind a pdeudonym). The pamphlet built lots
>of numbers from words in the Jewish/Christian bible,
Hopefully, they based these on Hebrew for the OT and Greek for the NT,
right?
--
Michael F. Stemper
#include <Standard_Disclaimer>
91.2% of all statistics are made up by the person quoting them.
Jens Stueckelberger
It's the same kind of numerological crap. Utterly worthless, like
Islam.
ProofofGod
>
> is that a miracle ?
OK guys (and gals),
People have been very rude so far and even worse for one message.
All I am asking is if you guys have sound knowledge of math to comment the following (if you can't comment intelligibly, other than by insulting, then you don't deserve any degree especially in math, because it means you can't even see the obvious):
361: Basic principle:
- In the verse numbering structure of Quran (numbered verses section of the Quran specifically) let us select the 361st numbered verse, then the 722nd (361x2) numbered verse, then the 1083rd numbered verse (361x3)....basically every verse that is multiple of 361 until you reach the end of the Quran: you get 17 verses spaced every 361 verses in the numbered section of the Quran.
Fact # 1
- If you add up the Gematrical Values (every letter in Arabic has a “mathematical value” or GV (see detail of gematrical values @ http://www.islamrevolution.org/miracleof19.htm) of all letters found in the 17 verses, you get a multiple of 19: 59109 = 19x3111.
Fact # 2
-If you separate in the 17 verses, verses with “God” from the ones without God, You still come up with two separate sub groups multiple of 19:
The gematrical value of the 3 verses with God is: 9633 = 19x507.
Fact # 3
- Let us now select, exactly in the same way, all verses multiple of 361 starting counting reverse from the end of the Quran instead of from the beginning: you still get 17 different verses, spaced exactly every 361 verses. The total gematrical value of all 17 verses (adding the mathematical values of every letter in the 17 verses) is again multiple of 19: 58748 = 19x3092.
Fact # 4
- If you again separate verses which contain the word “God” from the ones which do not, you again witness two separate sub groups multiple of 19.
The addition of gematrical values of all letters in the 6 verses which contain “God” is: 34010 = 19x1790.
Fact # 5
- The grand total of gematrical values of 361 normal order of the Quran is 59109 = 19x3111.
- The grand total of gematrical values of 361 reverse order of the Quran is 58748 = 19x3092.
► Let us subtract the gematrical values of 361 normal order from 361 reverse order of Quran: 59109 – 57748 = 361 = 19x19.
More details @ http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm
Is that so difficult? Please be polite and comment.
God bless.
Mensanator
> > neilist thinks about JSH's ass every 361 seconds.
>
> > is that a miracle ?
>
> OK guys (and gals),
>
> People have been very rude so far and even worse for one message.
> All I am asking is if you guys have sound knowledge of math to comment the following (if you can't comment intelligibly, other than by insulting, then you don't deserve any degree especially in math, because it means you can't even see the obvious):
>
> 361: Basic principle:
> - In the verse numbering structure of Quran (numbered verses section of the Quran specifically) let us select the 361st numbered verse, then the 722nd (361x2) numbered verse, then the 1083rd numbered verse (361x3)....basically every verse that is multiple of 361 until you reach the end of the Quran: you get 17 verses spaced every 361 verses in the numbered section of the Quran.
>
> Fact # 1
>
> Fact # 2
> -If you separate in the 17 verses, verses with “God” from the ones without God, You still come up with two separate sub groups multiple of 19:
> The gematrical value of the 3 verses with God is: 9633 = 19x507.
>
> Fact # 3
> - Let us now select, exactly in the same way, all verses multiple of 361 starting counting reverse from the end of the Quran instead of from the beginning: you still get 17 different verses, spaced exactly every 361 verses. The total gematrical value of all 17 verses (adding the mathematical values of every letter in the 17 verses) is again multiple of 19: 58748 = 19x3092.
>
> Fact # 4
> - If you again separate verses which contain the word “God” from the ones which do not, you again witness two separate sub groups multiple of 19.
> The addition of gematrical values of all letters in the 6 verses which contain “God” is: 34010 = 19x1790.
>
> Fact # 5
> - The grand total of gematrical values of 361 normal order of the Quran is 59109 = 19x3111.
> - The grand total of gematrical values of 361 reverse order of the Quran is 58748 = 19x3092.
> ► Let us subtract the gematrical values of 361 normal order from 361 reverse order of Quran: 59109 – 57748 = 361 = 19x19.
>
> Is that so difficult? Please be polite and comment.
> God bless.
Well, if you thought of this, some other person (Quran author)
could have thought of it also.
Therefore, even if the calculations are 100% accurate
(which is disputed), it does not follow from this that
the author was Allah.
Therefore, it does not constitute proof.
That's the mathematics of the situation.
You are still free to believe that this is EVIDENCE of
Allah authorship, but thinking that evidence is proof
is a fallacy.
amy666
> > neilist thinks about JSH's ass every 361 seconds.
> >
> > is that a miracle ?
>
> OK guys (and gals),
>
> People have been very rude so far and even worse for
> one message.
1) you didnt answer my question.
2) there is nothing miraculous about any number at all.
3) its allah , the quran talks about allah , not god.
4) people have been very polite considering your nonsense is not only nonsense but also does not belong on a mathforum. your question has nothing to do with math whatsoever.
> All I am asking is if you guys have sound knowledge
> of math to comment the following (if you can't
> comment intelligibly, other than by insulting, then
> you don't deserve any degree especially in math,
> because it means you can't even see the obvious):
no , all you ask is :
plz say 361 is a proof of god /allah.
>
> 361: Basic principle:
> - In the verse numbering structure of Quran (numbered
> verses section of the Quran specifically) let us
> select the 361st numbered verse, then the 722nd
> (361x2) numbered verse, then the 1083rd numbered
> verse (361x3)....basically every verse that is
> multiple of 361 until you reach the end of the Quran:
> you get 17 verses spaced every 361 verses in the
> numbered section of the Quran.
basic principle : numbers are not miracles.
not even 1729.
>
> Fact # 1
> - If you add up the Gematrical Values (every letter
> in Arabic has a “mathematical value” or GV (see
> detail of gematrical values @
> http://www.islamrevolution.org/miracleof19.htm) of
> all letters found in the 17 verses, you get a
> multiple of 19: 59109 = 19x3111.
Fact 1 : many numbers can be divided by 19.
at least 1/19 of all integers can be divided by 19.
so nothing special here.
no factoring math.
no god proof.
no allah proof.
no miracle.
>
> Fact # 2
> -If you separate in the 17 verses, verses with “God”
> from the ones without God, You still come up with two
> separate sub groups multiple of 19:
> The gematrical value of the 3 verses with God is:
> 9633 = 19x507.
again :
Fact 1 : many numbers can be divided by 19.
at least 1/19 of all integers can be divided by 19.
so nothing special here.
no factoring math.
no god proof.
no allah proof.
no miracle.
>
> Fact # 3
> - Let us now select, exactly in the same way, all
> verses multiple of 361 starting counting reverse from
> the end of the Quran instead of from the beginning:
> you still get 17 different verses, spaced exactly
> every 361 verses. The total gematrical value of all
> 17 verses (adding the mathematical values of every
> letter in the 17 verses) is again multiple of 19:
> 58748 = 19x3092.
" let us now select " ??
this implies you aim at a self-fulfilling prophecy.
if you know what that is.
hint : no proof of god nor allah nor miracle.
>
> Fact # 4
> - If you again separate verses which contain the word
> “God” from the ones which do not, you again witness
> two separate sub groups multiple of 19.
> The addition of gematrical values of all letters in
> the 6 verses which contain “God” is: 34010 =
> 19x1790.
self-fulfilling prophecy again.
>
> Fact # 5
> - The grand total of gematrical values of 361 normal
> order of the Quran is 59109 = 19x3111.
> - The grand total of gematrical values of 361 reverse
> order of the Quran is 58748 = 19x3092.
> ► Let us subtract the gematrical values of 361 normal
> order from 361 reverse order of Quran: 59109 – 57748
> = 361 = 19x19.
> More details @
> http://www.islamrevolution.org/361summary.htm
>
> Is that so difficult? Please be polite and comment.
> God bless.
ok ill be polite.
my arguments dont need inpolite support , they are strong enough by themselves.
( snip insults )
regards
tommy1729
ps : if people dont believe in your '361' or '19' doesnt mean they dont believe in god or allah , such are conclusions on your own responsability.
pps : have you met inverse19 yet ??
you would make a nice pair.
note the 19 in inverse19.
Ken Pledger
<7150884.8407.12386853...@nitrogen.mathforum.org>,
ProofofGod <pier...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ....
> People have been very rude so far ....
>
> .... Please be polite and comment....
My comment was intended to be perfectly polite. Perhaps you
didn't grasp the point that any book whatever has numerical coincidences
like those you describe from the Quran. To find them just requires a
lot of patience.
Ken Pledger.