How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Jason Pawloski

unread,

May 21, 2003, 5:48:09 AM5/21/03

to

I mostly read math books, and the level I read isn't waht I learn in class.
Thus, I make a lot of stupid prounciation mistakes (most notably "YOU-ler"
instead of "OY-ler", the former I still prefer, and "YOU-JEAN" instead of
"AY-GEN"). I would like to know: how does one pronounce Lebesgue (as in the
integral).

Jason

Romain Beauxis

unread,

May 21, 2003, 6:08:14 AM5/21/03

to

Well.. As Lebesgue is from my country, I would tell you mine, but it might
not be everyone's.
I say:
LEBEGUE, without the s. Of course, it is the french pronuciation..

Romain
"Jason Pawloski" <jpaw...@nemesissoftware.com> a écrit dans le message de
news:bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net...

Joona I Palaste

unread,

May 21, 2003, 6:08:22 AM5/21/03

to

Jason Pawloski <jpaw...@nemesissoftware.com> scribbled the following:

I think it's "le-beg" or "le-bek". The "le" is not the same as the
French definite article "le" but instead has the same e sound as the
"beg" or "bek" part.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/
"No, Maggie, not Aztec, Olmec! Ol-mec!"
- Lisa Simpson

|-|erc

unread,

May 21, 2003, 6:54:51 AM5/21/03

to

> --
> /-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\

Miss Joiner I placed, invents the concatination symbol while I demonstrate
my name by nature principle, along with 10 others of you.

Won't accept her fate that she meets lord and has a function for the world

HEATHENS WILL SUFFER FOR IGNORING ME

I"VE SUFFERED 1000 LIVES already, will be a prick compared to your fates

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 21, 2003, 8:05:56 AM5/21/03

to

Hello, Jason Pawloski!
On 21 May 2003 09:48:09 GMT Jason Pawloski wrote to (How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JP> I mostly read math books, and the level I read isn't waht I learn in
JP> class. Thus, I make a lot of stupid prounciation mistakes (most notably
JP> "YOU-ler" instead of "OY-ler", the former I still prefer, and
JP> "YOU-JEAN" instead of "AY-GEN"). I would like to know: how does one
JPFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>
Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 15:05:56 +0300
Lines: 15
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-Comment-To: Jason Pawloski
Fl-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30
X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Jason Pawloski!
On 21 May 2003 09:48:09 GMT Jason Pawloski wrote to (How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JP> I mostly read math books, and the level I read isn't waht I learn in
JP> class. Thus, I make a lot of stupid prounciation mistakes (most notably
JP> "YOU-ler" instead of "OY-ler", the former I still prefer, and
JP> "YOU-JEAN" instead of "AY-GEN"). I would like to know: how does one
JP> pronounce Lebesgue (as in the integral).

"LEBEG" is the official pronunciation within the former xUSSR (at least in
Slavic countries of the xUSSR).

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 21, 2003, 8:11:04 AM5/21/03

to

Hello, Jason Pawloski!
On 21 May 2003 09:48:09 GMT Jason Pawloski wrote to (How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JP> I mostly read math books, and the level I read isn't waht I learn in

JP> class. Thus, I make a lot of stupid prounciation mistakes (most notably
JP> "YOU-ler" instead of "OY-ler", the former I still prefer, and
JP> "YOU-JEAN" instead of "AY-GEN"). I would like to know: how does one
JP> pronounce Lebesgue (as in the integral).

"LEBEG" is the official pronunciation within the former xUSSR (at least in
Slavic countries of the xUSSR).

For example,
Mira Lebega - Lebesgue measure,
Lebegiv integral - Lebesgue integral
etc.

Hubert

unread,

May 21, 2003, 9:53:41 AM5/21/03

to

Joona I Palaste wrote:
> I think it's "le-beg" or "le-bek". The "le" is not the same as the
> French definite article "le" but instead has the same e sound as the
> "beg" or "bek" part.

In French, "Lebesgue" sounds like "le" + "beg" where "le" is pronounced
*exactly like* the article "le" (and which is not that easy to pronounce for
native english speaker) and "beg" is pronounced like "beg" in "I beg your
pardon" for instance.

Joona I Palaste

unread,

May 21, 2003, 10:38:08 AM5/21/03

to

Hubert <nom...@spa.net> scribbled the following:

Thanks for the information. In my Finnish Topology I textbook, where
Lebesgue covers are mentioned, it says that Lebesgue is pronounced
"le-beg" with the same e sound in both syllables. I guess the Finnish
and French pronunciations are different.
I can learn math in Finnish, Swedish or English but French math would
be too difficult for me... =)

Stephen J. Herschkorn

unread,

May 21, 2003, 11:23:01 AM5/21/03

to

>
>
>In French, "Lebesgue" sounds like "le" + "beg" where "le" is pronounced
>*exactly like* the article "le" (and which is not that easy to pronounce for
>native english speaker) and "beg" is pronounced like "beg" in "I beg your
>pardon" for instance.
>
>

Though I would trust the French pronunciation more, in the United
States, people tend to make the second e more closed, so that the vowel
in the second syllable is between those of "beg" and "cake." Just as U.S.
students tend to close the vowel sound in the French word "fais" (first
person singular of "faire").

I think an important point for the OP is that the s and the final "ue"
of "Lebesgue" are silent. As Hubert points out, the first e is schwa.

--
Stephen J. Herschkorn hers...@rutcor.rutgers.edu

Jan

unread,

May 21, 2003, 3:09:34 PM5/21/03

to

"Hubert" <nom...@spa.net> wrote in message news:<bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria>...

And - most important - the stress is on the last syllable.

Another tricky names:

Riesz [REESS]
Kac (as in "Kac-Moody") [KAHTS]
Kaluza (as in "Kaluza-Klein") [ka-WOO-zha]

...any others?

Jan Bielawski

Joona I Palaste

unread,

May 21, 2003, 3:16:25 PM5/21/03

to

Jan <dev_n...@yahoo.com> scribbled the following:

> Another tricky names:

> ...any others?

I'd be interested to know how anyone outside Scandinavia or Germany
pronounces "Lindelöf".

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/

"How can we possibly use sex to get what we want? Sex IS what we want."
- Dr. Frasier Crane

A N Neil

unread,

May 21, 2003, 4:14:38 PM5/21/03

to

In article <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com>, Jan
<dev_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> ...any others?

Dirichlet, use a German pronunciation...???

Artur

unread,

May 21, 2003, 5:24:13 PM5/21/03

to

Joona I Palaste <pal...@cc.helsinki.fi> wrote in message news:<bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>...

> Jason Pawloski <jpaw...@nemesissoftware.com> scribbled the following:
> > I mostly read math books, and the level I read isn't waht I learn in class.
> > Thus, I make a lot of stupid prounciation mistakes (most notably "YOU-ler"
> > instead of "OY-ler", the former I still prefer, and "YOU-JEAN" instead of
> > "AY-GEN"). I would like to know: how does one pronounce Lebesgue (as in the
> > integral).
>
> I think it's "le-beg" or "le-bek". The "le" is not the same as the
> French definite article "le" but instead has the same e sound as the
> "beg" or "bek" part.

I think it's closer to "le - bag" than to "le-beg" It seems to me that
the e in le is more or less like the e in beg and the other e is more
r less like the e i bag.
Artur

Robert Israel

unread,

May 21, 2003, 6:41:12 PM5/21/03

to

In article <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com>,
Jan <dev_n...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"Hubert" <nom...@spa.net> wrote in message news:<bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria>...
>> Joona I Palaste wrote:
>> > I think it's "le-beg" or "le-bek". The "le" is not the same as the
>> > French definite article "le" but instead has the same e sound as the
>> > "beg" or "bek" part.

>> In French, "Lebesgue" sounds like "le" + "beg" where "le" is pronounced
>> *exactly like* the article "le" (and which is not that easy to pronounce for
>> native english speaker) and "beg" is pronounced like "beg" in "I beg your
>> pardon" for instance.

>And - most important - the stress is on the last syllable.

... although the French would claim that both syllables have exactly equal
stress.

>Another tricky names:

>Riesz [REESS]

More difficult is his co-author Sz.-Nagy. Most non-Hungarians drop
the "Sz." (which stands for "Sz\"okefalvi") and pronounce it "NAHZH";
the real Hungarian "gy" sound is hard for us.

>Kac (as in "Kac-Moody") [KAHTS]
>Kaluza (as in "Kaluza-Klein") [ka-WOO-zha]

>...any others?

Stieltjes
de Bruijn
Ramanujan

Robert Israel isr...@math.ubc.ca
Department of Mathematics http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia
Vancouver, BC, Canada V6T 1Z2

Richard Tobin

unread,

May 21, 2003, 8:12:49 PM5/21/03

to

In article <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>,
Jason Pawloski <jpaw...@nemesissoftware.com> wrote:

>I would like to know: how does one pronounce Lebesgue (as in the integral).

The pronunciation I have most often heard from mathematicians is
"luh BAYG", though the French is probably more like "luh BEG".

-- Richard
--
Spam filter: to mail me from a .com/.net site, put my surname in the headers.

FreeBSD rules!

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 22, 2003, 10:42:36 AM5/22/03

to

Hello, Robert Israel!
On 21 May 2003 22:41:12 GMT Robert Israel wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

??>> ...any others?

RI> Stieltjes

[stiltjes] where t is soft

RI> de Bruijn

???

RI> Ramanujan

[ramanuD3an] or [ramanu3an] (I have heard both) where [3] is like in measure
[me3e].

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 22, 2003, 10:44:09 AM5/22/03

to

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 21 May 2003 19:16:25 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

??>> ...any others?

JI> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside Scandinavia or Germany
JI> pronounces "Lindelöf".

[lindelof] where both [l] are soft.

David Bernier

unread,

May 22, 2003, 10:51:22 AM5/22/03

to

I found a French robot pronouncer on the Web at:

http://www.latl.unige.ch/english/latl_e.html

It works with the "Winamp" plug-in, and I managed to
save the ouput as a *.wav file.

Entering:

Henri le bègue était un grand mathématicien.

Then pressing "Traiter" gave a pretty good
French robot voice.

David Bernier

unread,

May 22, 2003, 10:55:32 AM5/22/03

to

David Bernier wrote:
[...]

> I found a French robot pronouncer on the Web at:
>
> http://www.latl.unige.ch/english/latl_e.html

In: tools & demos ==> Speech synthesis

Joona I Palaste

unread,

May 22, 2003, 12:47:48 PM5/22/03

to

Dmytro Pavlov <DPa...@freemail.org.mk> scribbled the following:

> ??>> ...any others?

Then you are pronouncing the "ö" wrong. I thought as much.

Dr. Richard L. Hall

unread,

May 22, 2003, 12:48:16 PM5/22/03

to

"Artur" <ar...@opengate.com.br> wrote in message
news:468305d6.03052...@posting.google.com...

I always pronounced it le bag where the bag is as in bagel, i.e., a long a.

Julien_Santini

unread,

May 22, 2003, 1:50:07 PM5/22/03

to

"David Bernier" <davi...@sympatico.ca> a écrit dans le message de news:
3ECCE4E4...@sympatico.ca...

Actually the pronounciation given by this robot is not too bad!.

--
Julien Santini,
Université de Provence,
France.

Fred Galvin

unread,

May 22, 2003, 2:36:33 PM5/22/03

to

On 21 May 2003, Jan wrote:

> Another tricky names:
>
> Riesz [REESS]
> Kac (as in "Kac-Moody") [KAHTS]
> Kaluza (as in "Kaluza-Klein") [ka-WOO-zha]
>
> ...any others?

What's tricky about Riesz? How else would you pronounce it? A really
tricky Hungarian name which hardly anyone knows how to pronounce is
Eotvos (the physicist, so slightly off-topic here). Ignore the E, it's
only two syllables. Spelled phonetically in German (can't do it in
English) it would be "Oetwoesch". Hungarian for "Goldsmith", only
today it would be spelled without the E.

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 23, 2003, 2:09:35 AM5/23/03

to

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside ScanFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:09:35 +0300
Lines: 16

X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30

X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside ScanFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:09:35 +0300
Lines: 16

X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30

X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside ScanFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:09:35 +0300
Lines: 16

X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30

X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside ScanFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:09:35 +0300
Lines: 16

X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30

X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside ScanFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:09:35 +0300
Lines: 16

X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30

X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside ScanFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:09:35 +0300
Lines: 16

X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30

X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside ScanFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>
Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>

Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:09:35 +0300
Lines: 16

X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000

X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30

X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside Scandinavia or Germany
JI>>> pronounces "Lindelöf".

??>> [lindelof] where both [l] are soft.

JI> Then you are pronouncing the "ö" wrong. I thought as much.

I mean [o] is soft too (like German "o umlaut").
So, [o] and both [l] are soft.
How do you pronounce "Lindelöf"?

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 23, 2003, 2:12:22 AM5/23/03

to

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outsidFrom: "Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk>

Newsgroups: sci.math
References: <bafi0p$231$1...@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <bafj6m$3g0$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bag0cv$89g$1...@lucas.loria> <5a3651e8.03052...@posting.google.com> <bagja9$mli$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> <bainsg$6d41$1...@ID-120925.news.dfncis.de> <baiuvk$63d$1...@oravannahka.helsinki.fi>
Subject: Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"

Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 09:12:22 +0300

Lines: 16
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000
X-Comment-To: Joona I Palaste
FL-Build: Fidolook 2002 (SL) 6.0.2800.85 - 28/1/2003 19:07:30
X-Face: v\.@<WfifD&=q;x#iLRu>F9_40>Wm9'=7rT4<Bc`0|HJ>P&onM<BWe<(oBpmU@JqOH0|s-&Pwni(mQ7f`}Yq_wi_1!A6Q5yFZY<y)Pr,P*eCu~[Bvgj4e7\pL+4L(;h2$l~IHII~S6

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside Scandinavia or
Germany

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 23, 2003, 2:15:50 AM5/23/03

to

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside Scandinavia or
Germany

pronounces "Lindelöf".
??>> [lindelof] where both [l] are soft.
JI> Then you are pronouncing the "ö" wrong. I thought as much.

I mean [o] is soft too (like German "o umlaut").
So, [o] and both [l] are soft.
How do you pronounce "Lindelöf"?

I don't know Swedish language but I had been assuming (up to your posting
:-) ) that Swedish "ö" is like German "ö". No?

Joona I Palaste

unread,

May 23, 2003, 2:18:20 AM5/23/03

to

Dmytro Pavlov <DPa...@freemail.org.mk> scribbled the following:

(Multiple copies of the same headers and quote over and over again
snipped)

> Hello, Joona I Palaste!
> On 22 May 2003 16:47:48 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
> "Lebesgue"):

> JI>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside Scandinavia or Germany
> JI>>> pronounces "Lindelöf".

> ??>> [lindelof] where both [l] are soft.

> JI> Then you are pronouncing the "ö" wrong. I thought as much.

> I mean [o] is soft too (like German "o umlaut").
> So, [o] and both [l] are soft.
> How do you pronounce "Lindelöf"?

I meant that the "ö" must be pronounced like the German "o umlaut",
not like a normal "o". The umlaut isn't just for decoration, you know.
I don't actually know what you mean by "soft" ö and l. What's the
difference with the hard ones?
I pronounce "Lindelöf" [lindelöf], not [lindelof], but I don't know
which letters are soft and which are hard.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/

"We sorcerers don't like to eat our words, so to say."
- Sparrowhawk

Joona I Palaste

unread,

May 23, 2003, 2:19:53 AM5/23/03

to

Dmytro Pavlov <DPa...@freemail.org.mk> scribbled the following:

That is correct. Actually Lindelöf was Finnish but his name is
Swedish. It means the leaf of some tree, I forget which.

--
/-- Joona Palaste (pal...@cc.helsinki.fi) ---------------------------\
| Kingpriest of "The Flying Lemon Tree" G++ FR FW+ M- #108 D+ ADA N+++|
| http://www.helsinki.fi/~palaste W++ B OP+ |
\----------------------------------------- Finland rules! ------------/

"I am looking for myself. Have you seen me somewhere?"
- Anon

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 23, 2003, 1:47:32 PM5/23/03

to

Hello, Joona I Palaste!
On 23 May 2003 06:18:20 GMT Joona I Palaste wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
"Lebesgue"):

JI>>>>> I'd be interested to know how anyone outside Scandinavia or Germany
JI>>>>> pronounces "Lindelöf".

??>>>> [lindelof] where both [l] are soft.

JI>>> Then you are pronouncing the "ö" wrong. I thought as much.

??>> I mean [o] is soft too (like German "o umlaut").
??>> So, [o] and both [l] are soft.
??>> How do you pronounce "Lindelöf"?

JI> I meant that the "ö" must be pronounced like the German "o umlaut",
JI> not like a normal "o". The umlaut isn't just for decoration, you know.

Yes, I know that.

JI> I don't actually know what you mean by "soft" Ć and l. What's the

difference with the hard ones?

Every consonant can be pronounced either softly or hardly (maybe there are
something another but I have never heard of).
For example, English "l" is hard while German one is soft. In my language
(Ukrainian) all the consonants can be pronounced in such two ways (their
meanings in words, of course, differ for soft and hard cases) unlike in
English (all hard).

Under hard "o" I meant usual English "o", under soft "o" - German "ö" with
umlaut.

JI> I pronounce "Lindelöf" [lindelöf], not [lindelof], but I don't know which letters are soft and which are hard.

I pronounce [lindelöf] too but I did not use umlaut, I just described in the
word that "o" is soft (corresponding to German "ö" with umlaut).

David Turrell

unread,

May 23, 2003, 8:35:47 PM5/23/03

to

On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:42:36 +0300
"Dmytro Pavlov" <DPa...@freemail.org.mk> wrote:

>Hello, Robert Israel!
>On 21 May 2003 22:41:12 GMT Robert Israel wrote to (Re: How to pronounce
>"Lebesgue"):
>
> ??>> ...any others?
>
> RI> Stieltjes
>
>[stiltjes] where t is soft

Is the 'j' is soft as well, as in 'stiltj-es' or harder, as in
'stilt-jess'?

--
David Turrell Domain: panix.com

A N Niel

unread,

May 23, 2003, 9:26:20 PM5/23/03

to

In article <848518543.20...@ukr.net>, Dmytro Pavlov
<DPa...@freemail.org.mk> wrote:

> In my language
> (Ukrainian) all the consonants can be pronounced in such two ways (their
> meanings in words, of course, differ for soft and hard cases) unlike in
> English (all hard).

In English, most consonants and all vowels are pronounced in more than
two ways. [And "hard"/"soft" are not used to describe the ways in
most cases. Exceptions are hard and soft "G": good gem; hard and soft
"C": cold city.]

Phil Carmody

unread,

May 24, 2003, 5:42:42 AM5/24/03

to

[j] is not hard. Ever. [j] is [j].
All you've done apparantly is move the emphasis about.

Google for ASCII IPA and possibly a bit of Kirschenbaum thrown in for good
measure.

Phil

msh210

unread,

May 25, 2003, 10:59:35 PM5/25/03

to

dev_n...@yahoo.com (Jan) wrote, in part:

> Another tricky names:
>
> Riesz [REESS]
> Kac (as in "Kac-Moody") [KAHTS]
> Kaluza (as in "Kaluza-Klein") [ka-WOO-zha]
>
> ...any others?

"Los", the logician. The "L" is spelled with a slash through it, and
I *think* the "o" has an acute accent. It's pronouced something like
/woS/ (i.e., "wosh", where the o is between that of "cot" and that of
"coat").

Michael Hamm
BA scl Math, PBK, NYU
msh...@math.wustl.edu

Narasimham G.L.

unread,

May 26, 2003, 3:13:01 AM5/26/03

to

RI> Ramanujan ; the first two vowels are long and last two short. The
correct pronunciation sounds like < Raamaanujun > .

Pirated Dreams

unread,

May 26, 2003, 9:21:51 PM5/26/03

to

Don't laugh. I was sooooo happy to find a thread like this.
How do I pronounce (I *read* the names, I speak Bangla, I live nowhere near Europe):

Hermitean (or is it Hermitian), and Hermite
Schrodinger [is it like glass, or gem]
Heisenberg, Weinberg
Sophus Lie
Ellie Cartan
Henri Poincare [someone told me it's like poin-ca-ray]
Lagrange
Laguarre

[the only name I can correctly pronounce from the list for sure is Ramanujan!]

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 27, 2003, 1:48:57 AM5/27/03

to

Hello, Pirated Dreams!
On 26 May 2003 18:21:51 -0700 Pirated Dreams wrote (Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"):

PD> Don't laugh. I was sooooo happy to find a thread like this.
PD> How do I pronounce (I *read* the names, I speak Bangla, I live nowhere near Europe):

PD> Hermitean (or is it Hermitian), and Hermite

[ermitien]?
[ermit] ([i] stressed)?

PD> Schrodinger [is it like glass, or gem]

[[SH]rödinger] where consonant [SH] is pronounced like in "shell". See
previous messages in this thread about [ö].

PD> Heisenberg, Weinberg

[hajzenberg], [vajnberg] where [j] is pronounced like in "yes" [jes].

PD> Henri Poincare [someone told me it's like poin-ca-ray]

[anri puankare]

PD> Lagrange

[lagran3] where [3] is meant like third sound in "measure" [me3e].
I am not sure about [la]. How is it pronounced - near to English "last"
or near to German "lassen"? Don't say it is pronounced like in French
"Lagrange" :-) - I do not know French.

PD> Laguarre

???

All the best,
Dmytro Pavlov,
Kyiv, Ukraine.

--
Qualitaet ist unser täglich Brot.

Dmytro Pavlov

unread,

May 27, 2003, 2:11:41 AM5/27/03

to

Hello, Narasimham G.L.!

On 26 May 2003 00:13:01 -0700 Narasimham G.L. wrote (Re: How to pronounce "Lebesgue"):

RI>> Ramanujan ; the first two vowels are long and last two short. The

NG> correct pronunciation sounds like < Raamaanujun > .

How is "j" pronounced here?
And is "u" in "jun" pronounced namely like [u], not [a]?
Thanks.

Robert Israel

unread,

May 27, 2003, 3:17:56 AM5/27/03

to

In article <e5e1d6bd.03052...@posting.google.com>,

Pirated Dreams <uchch...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Don't laugh. I was sooooo happy to find a thread like this.
>How do I pronounce (I *read* the names, I speak Bangla, I live nowhere
>near Europe):

>Hermitean (or is it Hermitian), and Hermite

In the Kirschenbaum system (see
<http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Evan_Kirshenbaum/IPA/>)
it's either /hR 'mIS n-/ or /hEr 'mIS n-/.
Hermite is /Er mit/

>Schrodinger [is it like glass, or gem]

Like glass, or maybe more like singer: /'SrW dIN Er/

>Heisenberg, Weinberg

/'haI zEn bErg/.
If you're referring to an American such as Stephen Weinberg, it's
/'waIn bRg/, but the German Wilhelm Weinberg is /'vaIn bErg/

>Sophus Lie

/'soU fUs/ /li/

>Ellie Cartan
Elie Cartan is /eI li/ /kar tA~/

>Henri Poincare [someone told me it's like poin-ca-ray]

/A~ri/ /pwA~ ka reI/

>Lagrange
/la grA~Z/

>Laguarre
Laguerre is /la gEr/

David Turrell

unread,

May 30, 2003, 11:21:59 PM5/30/03

to

On Sat, 24 May 2003 12:42:42 +0300
"Phil Carmody" <thefatphi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 24 May 2003 00:35:47 +0000, David Turrell wrote:

[. . .]

>> Is the 'j' is soft as well, as in 'stiltj-es' or harder, as in
>> 'stilt-jess'?
>
>[j] is not hard. Ever. [j] is [j].
>All you've done apparantly is move the emphasis about.

'J' is hard when used initially, as in 'jester', and can be
represented as the diphthong 'dy'. It is usually softer when it
is it is used medially or finally, as in 'rajah', when it is purely
palatal.

I couldn't decide which rule should govern 'Stieltjes'. By spelling
it '-tj-es' in my example, I meant to suggest the softer sound. I
probably should have spelled it '-t-yes, although a soft 'j' isn't
exactly equivalent to 'y'.

Also, I didn't ask why the pronunciation shouldn't be represented
by 'Steelt-(d)yes', given that Europeans would usually give a longer
value to an '-ie-' than would an American, like myself, to whom
'Stilt-' suggests an Americanization of the pronunciation.

>Google for ASCII IPA and possibly a bit of Kirschenbaum thrown in
>for good measure.

The IPA does indeed use 'j' to represent a distinct sound, but that
doesn't mean that in everyday usage all 'j's are equal.