deuterium aging in our Solar System; Earth twice as old as Europa #186 Atom Totality theory
Archimedes Plutonium
I have gone as far as I think I can on zircon aging of the Outer
planets versus Inner planets and will just have to wait for further
news and research. Perhaps
someone who has zircon dated a meteorite found a anomaly of 8 billion
years or greater but threw away
his findings thinking it was a mistake.
So I am going to attack this age problem from another angle; with the
abundance of heavy water (deuterium) in comets more so than in Earth's
ocean water.
--- quoting from http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/14384/p...
Earthly seawater
contains 160 ppm of deuterium, an enrichment of eight times relative
to the deuterium in the solar nebula. So we would expect the comets to
be similarly enriched, no?
No. As it happens, the water in the three bright comets-Halley,
Hyakutake and Hale-Bopp-that recently swung past the Earth averaged
about 320 ppm deuterium, an enrichment of 16 times over the deuterium
in the solar nebula, and twice that found in seawater! How do we
account for these differences?
--- end quoting that website ---
Newsgroups: sci.physics, sci.math, sci.chem
From: a_plutonium <a_pluton...@hotmail.com>
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2007 20:19:40 -0700
Local: Sat, Sep 1 2007 10:19 pm
Subject: #31e zircon crystal Hawaii mantle; proving that Earth is
about 2X older than Jupiter Re: ATOM TOTALITY (Atom Universe) THEORY
REPLACES BIG BANG THEORY IN PHYSICS
I did a Google search for zircon crystal Hawaii mantle and received
these hits:
Multi-Stage Modification of the Northern Slave Mantle Lithosphere ...
Zircon crystals isolated from Jericho eclogites generally have low
uranium ...... high-MgO Group A (e.g. eclogite xenoliths from Salt
Lake crater, Hawaii; ...
petrology.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/47/4/821 - Similar pages
- Note this
[PDF]
Multi-Stage Modification of the Northern Slave Mantle Lithosphere ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
10 zircon crystals. The longest zircon crystal in this photo is 2 mm
in length. ...... eclogite xenoliths from Salt Lake crater, Hawaii;
Green, 1966) and ...
petrology.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/egi097v1.pdf - Similar pages
- Note this
[ More results from petrology.oxfordjournals.org ]
PSRD:: SaU169 Lunar Meteorite
Lead-lead ages of 12 zircon crystals from the impact melt portion ....
A. (2000) Major lunar crustal terranes: Surface expressions and crust-
mantle origins. ...
www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Oct04/SaU169.html - 38k - Cached - Similar pages -
Note this
Rates and Timescales of Magmatic Processes II - Volcanology ...
U-series Isotopic Evidence for Remelting of Kilauea Volcano's Mantle
Source .... Moreover, two zircon crystals from the youngest granite
overlap in age ...
www.agu.org/meetings/fm04/fm04-sessions/fm04_V52B.html - 30k - Cached
- Similar pages - Note this
Lithos : The granite-upper mantle connection in terrestrial ...
This conclusion is currently questioned, as the zircon crystals
collected in ..... glass collected in the Alae lava lake of Hawaii
(Wright and Peck, 1978). ...
linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0024493704002865 - Similar pages
- Note this
Helium isotopic evidence for episodic mantle melting and crustal ...
The main zircon age peaks are at 1.2, 1.9, 2.7 and 3.3 Gyr (Fig. 2).
As the continental crust was extracted from the mantle by partial
melting3, ...
www.nature.com/nature/journal/v446/n7138/full/nature05691.html -
Similar pages - Note this
Mantle Samples Included in Volcanic Rocks: Xenoliths and Diamonds
Crystals typically 0.2 mm with equant or tabular shapes, irregular
grain boundaries, .... phlogopite and ilmenite most common, zircon and
olivine rarer. ...
adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2003TrGeo...2..171P - Similar pages - Note this
A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE ERUPTION STYLE AND PRODUCTS OF KILAUEA ...
Hotspots are the expression of thermal plumes in the mantle which
may .... with minor constituents of biotite, quartz, zircon, apatite
and magnetite. ...
www.es.ucl.ac.uk/research/planetary/undergraduate/mcmillan/eruption/p...
- 21k - Cached - Similar pages - Note this
Pacific Museum of the Earth -- Exhibits
Mantle Plumes: Here a lava lamp serves as a model for how giant bodies
of hot .... (There is a zircon crystal in Wisconsin which is 4.4
billion years old, ...
www.eos.ubc.ca/resources/museum/exhibits.html - 22k - Cached - Similar
pages - Note this
What I am thinking is that the best way to prove the Sun and Inner
Planets are about 2X older
than the Outer planets is via zircon crystals and from my
understanding that Hawaii has the
best batches of zircon crystals from the mantle of Earth. So I am
guessing that this is perhaps
the best place to find a zircon that is 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 or 10 billion
years old. But perhaps
some other geological location on the globe my offer some very old
zircon crystals such as
Australia.
But it struck me as to what if we do find a zircon crystal which dates
to say 10 billion years old,
and how are we going to find a zircon crystal in any of the Outer
Planets to compare? So we
are in a jam here. So we find a zircon that dates Earth to 10 billion
years old and never able to
find a zircon on the Outer Planets. This is where we compare cores and
the relative abundance
of radioactive elements from Earth compared to the Outer Planets.
It is the finding of a zircon crystal from Earth's mantle that is 10
billion years old that proves the
Earth is much older than the usual cited age of 4.6 to 5 billion
years. Once we prove Earth is
much older then we use the "core data" and "abundance of radioactive
elements data" to prove
that Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune are 1/2 as old as Earth.
At least that is what my plan of logic scheme of things to work out.
Newsgroups: sci.physics, sci.math, sci.chem
From: a_plutonium <a_pluton...@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2007 02:19:56 -0700
Local: Sun, Aug 19 2007 4:19 am
Subject: #16 Earth has 1/2 the heavy-water of Comets, but does Earth
have 2X the abundance of lithium, beryllium, boron as does Jupiter??
Re: ATOM TOTALITY (Atom Universe) THEORY REPLACES BIG BANG THEORY IN
PHYSICS
Perhaps I can date Earth versus Jupiter as that of 10 billion years
versus 5 billion
years from the abundance of lithium, beryllium, boron or some other
chemical element.
So far I have found just one relationship of twice as much abundance.
The relationship that
Earth water is 160 ppm deuterium and Comets are 320 ppm.
Can I find another data where a chemical element is twice as abundant
between
Earth and Jupiter? It is too late tonight.
--- quoting Wikipedia ---
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Deuterium, also called heavy hydrogen, is a stable isotope of hydrogen
with a natural abundance in the oceans of Earth of approximately one
atom in 6,500 of hydrogen (~154 ppm). Deuterium thus accounts for
approximately 0.015% (alternately, on a weight basis: 0.031%) of all
naturally occurring hydrogen in the oceans on Earth (see VSMOW; the
abundance changes slightly from one kind of natural water to another).
Deuterium abundance on Jupiter is about 2.25×10-5 (roughly 22 atoms in
a million, or 15% of the terrestrial deuterium-to-hydrogen ratio);[1]
these ratios presumably reflect the early solar nebula ratios, and
those after the Big Bang. However, other sources suggest a much higher
abundance of e.g. 6×10-4 (6 atoms in 10,000 or 0.06% atom basis).[2]
There is thought to be little deuterium in the interior of the Sun and
other stars, as at temperatures there nuclear fusion reactions that
consume deuterium happen much faster than the proton-proton reaction
that creates deuterium. However, it continues to persist in the outer
solar atmosphere at roughly the same concentration as in Jupiter.
(skipped)
The existence of deuterium on Earth, elsewhere in the solar system (as
confirmed by planetary probes), and in the spectra of stars, is an
important datum in cosmology. Gamma radiation from ordinary nuclear
fusion dissociates deuterium into protons and neutrons, and there are
no known natural processes other than the Big Bang nucleosynthesis,
which might have produced deuterium at anything close to the observed
natural abundance of deuterium (deuterium is produced by the rare
cluster decay, and occasional absorption of naturally-occurring
neutrons by light hydrogen, but these are trivial sources). The
natural deuterium abundance seems to be a very similar fraction of
hydrogen, wherever hydrogen is found. Thus, the existence of deuterium
at a low but constant fraction in all hydrogen, is one of the
arguments in favor of the Big Bang theory over the steady state theory
of the universe. It is estimated that the abundances of deuterium have
not evolved significantly since their production about 13.7 billion
years ago.[6]
--- end quoting Wikipedia ---
Funny how Wikipedia gives the notion, above quote,
that the Steady State theory is less capable of explaining the
differential deuterium than the Big Bang.
When it is the reverse that is closer to the truth.
I feel the problem with the above Wikipedia claims
on deuterium from what sources they gathered is that
those sources compare incomparable amounts of
deuterium. So they compare the Earth's ocean water
deuterium to that of what of Jupiter and Saturn? Certainly Jupiter and
Saturn do not have oceans of water. So it is a comparison of
incomparables.
With the Comet comparison, we have a better comparison test in that
Comets have twice the density
of deuterium in comet ice than there is in Earth ocean
water. But if we were to make a Comparable Comparison Measure of the
deuterium in comets, Jupiter, Earth we should find a ratio of about
twice giving a Earth age of 2X that of Comets and Jupiter.
Archimedes Plutonium
www.iw.net/~a_plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom
where dots of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
David Bernier
>
>
> I have gone as far as I think I can on zircon aging of the Outer
> planets versus Inner planets and will just have to wait for further
> news and research. Perhaps
> someone who has zircon dated a meteorite found a anomaly of 8 billion
> years or greater but threw away
> his findings thinking it was a mistake.
>
> So I am going to attack this age problem from another angle; with the
> abundance of heavy water (deuterium) in comets more so than in Earth's
> ocean water.
>
>
> --- quoting from http://www.americanscientist.org/template/AssetDetail/assetid/14384/p...
>
> Earthly seawater
> contains 160 ppm of deuterium, an enrichment of eight times relative
> to the deuterium in the solar nebula. So we would expect the comets to
> be similarly enriched, no?
>
> No. As it happens, the water in the three bright comets-Halley,
> Hyakutake and Hale-Bopp-that recently swung past the Earth averaged
> about 320 ppm deuterium, an enrichment of 16 times over the deuterium
> in the solar nebula, and twice that found in seawater! How do we
I'd rather go by the deuterium to one-proton hydrogen
for the whole earth. Even then, some radio-active
processes (fission perhaps) could give a stream
of non-primordial deuterium ...
The reason for "global" is that isotope-separation
can occur under physico-chemical processes, e.g.
diffusion for a gas or gases containing both
U-238 and U-235. Over aeons, might not
physico-chemical properties act to alter
the ratio of deuterium to one-proton
hydrogen atoms in seawater?
David Bernier
Archimedes Plutonium
David Bernier wrote:
(snipped)
>
> I'd rather go by the deuterium to one-proton hydrogen
> for the whole earth. Even then, some radio-active
> processes (fission perhaps) could give a stream
> of non-primordial deuterium ...
>
> The reason for "global" is that isotope-separation
> can occur under physico-chemical processes, e.g.
> diffusion for a gas or gases containing both
> U-238 and U-235. Over aeons, might not
> physico-chemical properties act to alter
> the ratio of deuterium to one-proton
> hydrogen atoms in seawater?
>
> David Bernier
>
Hello, good to see you have interests in Physics and not just Math,
David.
I am not sure of what this editor of Wikipedia meant by this
statement:
"(deuterium is produced by the rare
cluster decay, and occasional absorption of naturally-occurring
neutrons by light hydrogen, but these are trivial sources)."
I am not quibbling with that statement, just trying to see how Dirac
Radioactivities via gamma rays and cosmic rays can produce deuterium.
I can only guess at what it means for "rare cluster decay".
What is most puzzling is that if Earth is 10 billion years old and the
Comets
and gas giant planets are 5 billion years old, how 2X age yields a
decrease
in density.
Maybe the production of deuterium via Dirac Radioactivities is the
constant
stream at 320 ppm as in Comets or any other astro body but the older
age of
2X reduces that density to 160 ppm.
You speak of radioactive fission of Uranium. So can fission coupled
with
5 billion years end up yielding 1/2 density of deuterium? Perhaps that
is the
answer. That in a Comet or the Gas Giants, have not built up enough
radioactive
elements in 5 billion years time and only Earth which is 10 billion
years old has
enough radioactive elements built up via Dirac Radioactivies that
those radioactive
elements begin to reduce the overall density of deuterium back to 1/2
of what a
5 billion year old body such as a Comet.
BradGuth
How old is the planet Venus? (how about considering 250~300 million
years?)
~ BG