Maple bugs: Backward compatibility - 1
Vladimir Bondarenko
It is natural that now and again you and me produce worksheets to
share our data.
How much Maplesoft cares about your and my convenience, about at
least compatibility between Maple versions?
Today's example. Prof Dr Albert Hoogewijs of University of Ghent has
Maple worksheets http://cage.ugent.be/~bh/compal9899/mws/
I downloaded from there a Maple V Release 4 worksheet with Michael
Wester's test (35.3 Kb)
http://cage.ugent.be/~bh/compal9899/mws/wester_mpl.mws
Attempts to open it with Maple 9.5.1 end up each time in the same
way,
Kernel Failure
Worksheet lost contact with kernel.
You should save this worksheet and restart Maple.
Well... after numerous tries I found that it is really difficult
to save this worksheet BEFORE I loaded it ;)
Okay, to get serious, Maple V Release 4 was released on the very
eve of 1996.
Mathematica 2.2 was released in 1993, much earlier.
And you can open Mathematica 2.2 notebooks with the most recent
Mathematica 5.1 of 2004. You just see a prompt windows with option
you could wish to support in the converted notebook.
So it goes.
Why Maplesoft cannot support compatibility?
Is there competent planning process in Maplesoft?
Best wishes,
Vladimir Bondarenko
http://www.cybertester.com/
http://maple.bug-list.org/
http://www.CAS-testing.org/
Richard J. Fateman
If you have a maple bug to report, and you are sure
it is not just your misreading of the manual,
and you have reported it to maplesoft, and they
have either responded, or enough time has passed that
they should have responded, then it makes sense to
post on the maple, and maybe the sci.math.symbolic newgroups:
(a) your finding [one instance, not many nearly identical ones].
(b) Maplesoft's response if any.
(c) your comment about this bug or feature.
Your speculations about how Maplesoft does (or does not) test
its releases, or what it says in its
marketing do not need constant repetition.
You are welcome to participate, free, in the
Maxima development effort on sourceforge, where you can not only find
bugs, but you can fix them. You can even look at the bug list that
others have put together.
You can also contribute to the test suite.
RJF
Vladimir Bondarenko wrote:
> Hello the symbolic computation community,
>... <snip>
Vladimir Bondarenko
A puissant cachalot of computer algebra, a firework of ideas, a
fighter eager for the fray for Her Majesty Computer Algebra's
prosperity, you give - God bless your health! - the symbolic community
genuine honor via your fierce, volcanic activity. Hot dog! as we the
Russians keep saying, 'I envy you with white envy'.
You remind me legendary Pythagoras who being a boxer the philosopher
(and a by-job mathematician ;) once won Olympic Games.
RJF> Vladimir: this gets tiresome.
Excellent, I *am* flattered.
Your words mean that, step by little step, I am reaching one of my
grand goals which is creating the surroundings supported by powerful
techniques and services within which it will be only possible to sell
the customers competitive Maple and not a mathematical parody we, the
Maple customers, have under the name of Maple 9/Maple 9.5... having
paid a pretty penny.
Also please realize that you seem to be not a Maple customer, while I
am, and quite a thousands, to put it mildly, of persons are. And the
issue I am starting touching is actually not about Maple quality &
prospect & Maplesoft survival only, but also about Mathematica, MuPAD,
AXIOM, Macsyma, Maxima and *any* computer algebra system.
In fact, via the Maple case study, I am launching a dialogue about the
quality of any large & influential computer algebra system, be it an
existent one or a future system to be designed and implemented in 20
years, about how to develop such a system delivering its powers intact
from version to version while, at worst, keeping the total number of
bug manifestations not growing, how to reduce the overhead costs
during the development & maintenance.
Don't you see that the current status of computer algebra systems is a
far cry from what one could expect seeing a great inspirational
beginning of the 60s-70s, Dr Hearn's Reduce, your Macsyma? Don't you
see that we got stuck in a mire of screwed buggy environments, each
ridiculous it own way?
Had the queen would be naked, it would be an attractive picture for my
man's eye, - but the problem is that we have comical emperor's new
clothes instead of noble eternal feminine nude.
I am commencing a dialogue about expanding of computer algebra impact
on industry & education, about more markets for computer algebra
systems, more customers for computer algebra manufacturers.
Symposia, symposia, symposia. Words, words, words.
When last time you had been summoned by the President Bush to advice
on further investments into CASs? When the last time you were handed
500,000 USD or better 1,000,000 USD to architect and implement a new
generation CAS?
Why on earth a personality of your caliber dissipates your potential
to killing Maxima fleas?
Does it pertain to an analyst of your orbit to confine yourself to
growing your pet bromeliads however delectable?
The outer world lost confidence in computer algebra, and we must
re-establish the confidence of the world in this divine field.
RJF> The tradition in CAS is not to build on the shoulders of those
RJF> who have gone before, but to build on their toes.
Then, how to change this tradition?
RJF> Vladimir: this gets tiresome.
1) Be patient. I need a period of time to deploy what I am going
to deploy.
2) Expect unexpected ;)
RJF> If you have a maple bug to report, and you are sure it is not
RJF> just your misreading of the manual, and you have reported it to
RJF> maplesoft, and they have either responded, or enough time has
RJF> passed that they should have responded, then it makes sense to
RJF> post on the maple, and maybe the sci.math.symbolic newgroups:
RJF> (a) your finding [one instance, not many nearly identical ones].
RJF> (b) Maplesoft's response if any.
RJF> (c) your comment about this bug or feature.
Your piece of advice would be valid, had I had an intention to
complain. Now you see that it is not and was never my goal at all,
from the very beginning.
Also, isn't sci.math.symbolic a free forum, where you and me and
everyone can write to about any point he or she finds important
(and ignore whatever we do not want to read)?
If you would prefer to eschew reading me messages, why don't browse
this forum not via http://mathforum.org/epigone/sci.math.symbolic
but via http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic
and never read any message posted by me?
RJF> Your speculations
A typo. You obviously meant, "your facts"?
RJF> about how Maplesoft does (or does not) test its releases, or what
RJF> it says in its marketing do not need constant repetition.
It is not easy to convey, how much I respect your titanic contribution
into modern computer algebra, and how much I hope for your new
breakthroughs.
This said, I am writing for the whole symbolic computation community.
I identified a list of countries, Cyber Tester's visitors are from,
Albania, Algeria, Argentina, Armenia, Australia, Austria, Azerbaijan,
Belarus, Belgium, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, China, Colombia,
Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Denmark, Dominican
Republic, Egypt, Estonia, Finland, France, Georgia, Germany, Greece,
Hong Kong, Hungary, Iceland, India, Indonesia, Iran, Ireland, Israel,
Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania,
Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malaysia, Maldives, Mexico, Moldova, Morocco,
Netherlands, New Zealand, Nigeria, Niue, Norway, Pakistan, Peru,
Philippines, Poland, Portugal, Republic of Korea, Romania, Russian
Federation, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sri
Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Syrian Arab Republic, Taiwan, Tanzania,
Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates,
United States, Uruguay, Venezuela, Viet Nam.
84 countries, totally.
Regular visits to my sites from Raytheon, Oracle, Wolfram Research,
IBM (Canada, Almaden, Yorktown Heights, Somers), NAG Ltd, Maplesoft,
MathWorks, Texas Instruments, and not so frequent now visits from
Microsoft, Intel, AT&T, NASA, DARPA, DoD, and even Pentagon, from
Hewlett-Packard, Fujitsu, Aerospace Corporation, Glaxo, Baxter,
Lockheed-Martin, Grolier, Rocket-Space Corporation Energia and other.
Now I hope you understand better my trajectory, at least its nearest
part.
Michelangelo had been toiling on the Sistine for 10 years totally,
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/sistine/0s-Sistine.jpg
why you expect me to work a wonder in a month? I feel highly honored
by your expectation and I am endowed with bright talent, yet the tasks
before me are formidable, so I need a span of time.
RJF> You are welcome to participate, free, in the Maxima development
RJF> effort on sourceforge, where you can not only find bugs, but you
RJF> can fix them.
I am already subscribed to Maxima List and keep my eye on Maxima
developers effort. The current world is specialized, and it is top
efficiency this specialization provides that makes me keeping off
straightforward Maxima development efforts. I believe that each of us
should be involved in the activity he is most efficient in.
You are the world's # 1 CAS architect. You have proven this.
I am the world's # 1 CAS tester. Wait for 12 months.
RJF> You can even look at the bug list that others have put together.
Of cause I have scrutinized the Maxima bug list.
RJF> You can also contribute to the test suite.
Yes, I have a set of ideas about the test suite.
Even more, I have a computer algebra testing machine named VM, the
successor of the GEMM machine. Several months ago, the VM had already
tested Maxima 5.9.0 a bit and identified a couple of hundreds of bug
manifestations there, just for my fun, just for running-in. In the
future, I am going to resume Maxima bug identification activity,
though.
But I have no infinite resource, and now the VM works on other tasks.
VVB
Fred
> Vladimir: this gets tiresome.
>
I find Valdimir posts the most interesting and educational posts.
By sharing with us his findings, we get to learn more.
If you do not find them interesting for you, then no one
is forcing you to read them.
Fred
Brad Cooper
I find it wonderful that Vladimir is persuing excellence in CAS for the user
community. I find it shocking that there appears to be so little regression
testing of Maple. Alternatively, if there is regression testing, then it is
just as shocking that it is so ineffective.
When, a few weeks ago, Vladimir toasted the birth of the first reported bug
in Maple 15 years ago and then showed that it is STILL THERE I was shocked.
How can that be?
I use a CAS almost daily in my work and it is a fabulous tool. With Vladimir
beavering away at the task of CAS testing, these systems will ultimately be
better and we all benefit. Vladimir, I salute you.
Cheers,
Brad
No one
> Richard J. Fateman wrote:
>> Vladimir: this gets tiresome.
>>
[...]
>
> If you do not find them interesting for you, then no one
> is forcing you to read them.
>
> Fred
nah, you missed the point. for the most part, Mr. Bondarenko
actually -is- a tedious read.
--
'No one'
Vladimir Bondarenko
I fully agree with you!
But you know only a tiny fraction of the eerie truth, namely, that
in real life I am a craaaashing bore. I never smile, (my Mom told
me that I even was born with a face as long as a fiddle), I always
have the most forbidding countenance and sinister glance. When I
pause near flowers, they languish & fade. Naturally, I'm extremely
suspicious, I have no trust even to myself speaking nothing of any
other live soul. I know not a single anecdote whatsoever, and even
cannot memorize them (obviously, a case of early sclerosis). I am
wildly angry with the fact that the Sun rises on the East and sets
down on the West. All people around me are not such as they should
be. (By the way, all computer algebra systems has lots of bugs,
Maple is the # 1 candidate to the Guinness Record Book!) When I
read books, typos spring to my eye, without the slightest effort
on my part, and I groan. Once I had a futile hope that I could
save myself in sleep, ahh in vain. Even all my dreams are terrible
boring. In fact, I must admit that I am boring *so much* that I
got sick and tired of myself, shiver my timbers! 'Pon my word, you
have a chunk of genuine luck not to be within gun-shot with such a
born spoilsport like me, or you would drop dead in 5 minutes.
Upon reading this unexpected remark of yours I could imagine that
you are a respectable chairwoman of an elite masochistic club? ;)
Otherwise, it is a deep mystery for me why on earth you keep
victimizing yourself via reading my posts? Couldn't I recommend
you as soon as you run into my name, skip the post the very
moment? Just tell yourself in a sad or angry or fully indifferent
voice, This blackguardly villain is far beneath my notice, and
with your light heart go to other posts, where you will find
solace and rejoice, pourquoi pas?
Also, after a certain internal fight with myself, I've decided
to make a shy remark that I write for the benefit of the symbolic
community, for Oracle & IBM readers who visit the forums, for
Wolfram Research and Maplesoft. For DoD and DARPA. As Oliver
Heaviside has it, Fault has been found with these articles that
they are hard to read. They were, perhaps, hard to write.
Even worse! The further the more I will speak about tech details,
about sophisticated problems and the ways to bypass them, oh poor
my readers...
Had you have a desire to be entertained, just drop me a private
message at v...@cybertester.com and I could send you some my short
and long poems/short stories (unfortunately, most of my 1000+
poems are written in Russian... things look black)
Best wishes,
Vladimir
P.S. I feel a plethora of energy to spend towards making people
boring. I simply do not know how to spend the surplus. One way is
writing poems, sci-fi and detective stories. I never write them
using any kind of intentional planning, they just outfly out of
my mind when I did not expect them. Or at times, starting running,
they out of blue stop dead and then I do no much attempt to finish
them.
Just for your fun, I attached a parody I wrote overnight by
candle-light during a power failure in February of 2000.
I am a hacker. You are a black box.
You're a honey faith. I'm your orthodox.
I'm a sweet-tooth. You're a vanilla pie.
You're the flutiest disc. Th' atwitter jukebox am I.
I'm a daring probe. You're the deepest space.
I'm an incessant artist. You're the desired face.
You're my beloved lorry. I'm your caring chauffeur.
You're my best short story. I'm your happy raconteur.
I am a master-key. You're the locked flat.
You're a fluffy pussy. I'm a bold wild tomcat.
You're a never yet seen flower. I'm your holy dew.
I'm a great life-bearer. So are, honey, you.
I am the greatest poet. You're my inspired string.
You're a windup watch. I'm your tense mainspring.
I am a world-around traveller. You're the best trip I can make.
I'm your overnight insomnia. You're my everyday headache.
You're a quiet osier. I'm a lone lake.
You're the golden locket. I'm its best keepsake.
You're a newborn baby. I'm the deadly smallpox.
You're a little bunny. Leveret, I'm your hungry fox!
You are my loving momma. I'm your best-loved boy.
I'm a beggar child. You're my only toy.
You're the holiest sanctuary. I'm a blasphemy, God damn!
You're my fire whiskey. Your dead drunkard I am.
I am a beauty trader. You are my godsent franchise.
I am a resourceful boffin. You are my Nobel prize.
I am a national trainer. You're the full-blooded racehorse.
I am a mastermind. You are my best tour de force.
You are a stripteaser. I'm a stage-crafted director's brains.
You are a little villain girlie. I'm your sweetest lollipop.
You are a gentle coming spring. I am your joyful drip-drop.
You are a profound crooner. I'm your inspiration non-stop.
You are a merciless drought. I'm your powerful fountains.
You are a cinema screen. I'm a fairy-projector.
I'm a bewitching ray. You are an accepting tissue.
Two atwittering arrows fly to two beloved targets,
my devoted eyes to your breast naked afresh.
I am a dogged physicist. You are an unvanquished plasm.
I am the warmest sun. You are the iciest chasm.
I am a perpetual chase. You're the elusive subtle truth.
You are an immortal ado. I am a forgiving ruth.
You're a droplet of magic. I'm the lips of a dead oaf.
I am the cruellest famine. You're my fresh-baked loaf.
I am a frenzied diamond-drill. You're my deepening well.
I'm the zero of Kelvin. You're my blazing hell.
I'm an inveterate miser. You are the miser's hoard.
I'm an awaiting liner. Nugget, welcome aboard!
I'm a great astronomer. You're a star to be found.
You are a ticking sex bomb. I'm your proving ground.
You are my lucky finish. I'm the racing car.
I'm the swiftest arrow. Th' eversought-for-target you are.
I'm an incorrigible addict. You're my shiny drug.
I'm a ready-to-start booster.
You're the final spark plug.
Up we go!
No one
> Madam,
>
> I fully agree with you!
[...]
do you reply to someone in these two newsgroups, or are you just talking
to yourself?
--
'No one'
Vladimir Bondarenko
By the way, let me explain my way of addressing you...
You wrote at
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.soft-sys.math.maple/msg/58c96ed66caef4ce
No one> what makes you think i'm a 'sir'?
from which I infer that you could be an AI application passed the
Turing Test, a representative of extraterrestrial intelligence
(read more about this item soon), or a woman. I much prefer to
consider the 3rd case as the most probable, yet stand ready for
correction.
No one> do you reply to someone in these two newsgroups,
No one> or are you just talking to yourself?
Before your eyes, a rare historic event, like Vesuvius eruption,
or the first manned space flight, - a paradigm shift is going
to dart into life, and dramatically change it once and forever.
Let me add some comments.
Actually, your message, or put it so, an attempt of reproach, is
not fully wrong. But I believe the target of your reproach maybe
should be changed.
With sheer delight, I enjoy warm, fresh and sincere comments by my
several comrades in spirit and companions in Maple misfortune! Oh
comrades, I am really thrilled and proud to hear your appraisal,
to feel your support, relish your deep understanding of the events
unfolding, Peter, Brad, Fred! This *is* inspiring, this is one of
most exiting hours of my life. (Being swamped with all Maple bug
identification, I already composed answers to you in mind, and so
will reply soon, the delay is because GEMM and I keep trying to
find more and more Maple bugs, with alarming success...)
Among these comrades are you, No one, an unknown entity. Whoever
you are, I find the brightness of your insight and the level of
your intuition to be amazing.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/comp.soft-sys.math.maple/msg/58c96ed66caef4ce
No one> i get the sense there is some mysterious history or other
No one> motivation behind this guy's effort,
Why sure, right you are. A certain part of the mystery you pointed
out to is a contest between two architects. One of them is this
child ;) This is all I could afford to tell you this moment...
please have patience. Thanks.
Who is the second architect?
Watch the development of affairs ;)
No one> and i'm left wondering what it could be.
Let me recur to a comparison. A championship in chess is in full
swing. Kasparov and his opponent, with intense eagerness, are bent
their heads at the checkerboard trying to decipher each other's
designs. The winner takes all!
Now an elegant newspaperwoman is walking onto the stage, and she
is addressing Kasparov politely, Dear Grand Master, could you
please disclose publicly your ideas on account of what are your
next moves, as well as your far-reaching designs?
;-)
No one> did he ever try to contact people at Maplesoft?
In general, I keep contacting with CAS manufacturers since 1993.
According to their reactions, (a few selected of them are at
http://www.cas-testing.org/index.php?list=7
and belongs, respectively, to
COMMENT 1 Albert D. Rich, www.derive.com www.mulisp.com
COMMENT 2 Prof Dr Oleg Marichev, WRI www.functions.wolfram.com
COMMENT 3 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
COMMENT 4 Prof Dr Walter Oevel (SciFace GmbH)
COMMENT 5 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
COMMENT 6 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
COMMENT 7 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
COMMENT 8 Dr Michael Wester, www.math.unm.edu/~wester
COMMENT 9 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
COMMENT 10 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
COMMENT 11 Stefan Wehmeier, SciFace GmbH
COMMENT 12 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
COMMENT 13 Kelly Roach, http://home.att.net/~themission/
COMMENT 14 Dr Anwar Shiekh, WRI Test Development Group Supervisor
)
due to my efforts, many hundreds of bugs have already been fixed
in Derive, Mathematica, MuPAD, with many thousands are still in
the queue to be fixed. In contrast, up to now, Maplesoft is the
only of CAS manufacturers which since 1993, yes 1993, explicitly
rejects my efforts to improve Maple.
However, I see that there are numerous, systematic visits to the
Cyber Tester's sites from ns.maplesoft.on.ca (205.211.164.226).
Be this a coincidence or a result of such visits (I hope for the
latter), dozens of Maple bugs pointed out in the Cyber Tester's
sites have been fixed in Maple 9/Maple 9.5/Maple 9.5.1.
I hope here I answered a part of your questions... coming back
to Maple bugs to celebrate the Year of 2005 coming as effeirs,
with fireworks, popping of the corks and dance music!
Merry Christmas to you and all the readers of sci.math.symbolic
and comp.soft-sys.math.maple !
Cyber Tester guarantees you and all our supporters thrilling
nice impressions during the next 12 months ;)
Vladimir Bondarenko
GEMM architect
Cyber Tester, LLC
No one
> Madam,
you suspect i live in a brothel? if so, 'another bad guess'. did
you have something (anything?) to say about symbolic math software?
[quoting me]
> No one> what makes you think i'm a 'sir'?
well, it seems you know how to search, copy and paste, anyway. but
so far, your verbose usenet prance can best be described as 'odd'.
> from which I infer that you could be an AI application passed the
> Turing Test, a representative of extraterrestrial intelligence
uh huh... and your personal opinion of me, or anyone else who posts to
these two groups at any time, is related to symbolic math software in
exactly what way?
[...]
> Among these comrades are you, No one, an unknown entity. Whoever
> you are, I find the brightness of your insight and the level of
> your intuition to be amazing.
so... no, you don't have much to say about the utility of symbolic
math software?
[...]
> No one> did he ever try to contact people at Maplesoft?
>
> In general, I keep contacting with CAS manufacturers since 1993.
> According to their reactions, (a few selected of them are at
[a web link]
that's nice. on a quick read, it appears that portions of this are
edited, and if so, i can only speculate about reasons. it would be
more interesting to see independent, unedited commentary. better still,
directly from the source. barring that, self-congratulation on the
topic is not terribly persuasive evidence.
--
'No one'